Bortles threw for 376 yards and 4 TDs in the 2018 game, and, since then, the most memorable thing about him is the mentions he got in The Good Place.
Bortles threw for 376 yards and 4 TDs in the 2018 game, and, since then, the most memorable thing about him is the mentions he got in The Good Place.
Blake of the year is his crowning achievement in the last 3 years.Bortles threw for 376 yards and 4 TDs in the 2018 game, and, since then, the most memorable thing about him is the mentions he got in The Good Place.
I understood you to say any contract to a coach should be paid regardless of whether cause for firing exists. I don’t happen to agree, but the lawyers certainly will file in (ha?) to sort it out.I explained pretty clearly why. Read my post.
His contract almost certainly had a morality clause. He didn’t take the job for any sort of security he didn’t already have. He’s entitled to shit if he really kicked a player.I explained pretty clearly why. Read my post.
That's quite a bold statement. You're confident there's no way he receives any of his remaining salary because he kicked someone in the leg a little hard? A story that he denies?His contract almost certainly had a morality clause. He didn’t take the job for any sort of security he didn’t already have. He’s entitled to shit if he really kicked a player.
https://www.nfl.com/news/former-jaguars-head-coach-urban-meyer-discusses-his-firingIn an exclusive interview with NFL.com, Meyer spoke publicly for the first time since his firing and expressed his disappointment in how his Jacksonville tenure unfolded.
"I just apologize to Jacksonville," Meyer said over the phone on Friday from Florida. "I love Jacksonville. It's one of the reasons I took the job. I still think Shad's a great owner. It's heart-breaking. I just had a dream of it becoming a destination place with a new facility he agreed to build and some day to walk into that stadium where it's standing room only. Because I know how bad the people of Jacksonville want it. So, I'm just heartbroken that we weren't able to do that. I still believe it's going to be done. It's too good of a place."
In the 23-minute-long interview, Meyer said he was "devastated," denied all accusations made against him in his final days, explained why he benched star running back James Robinson against the Rams and detailed where it got away on the field.
Meyer, one of the most successful college coaches in history, but who lost more NFL games in his first four weeks with the Jags (4) than he had in any single college season since 2007, also admitted that processing losing football games is a challenge he's yet to work through.
"I tell people, losing eats away at your soul," Meyer said. "Once you start losing, it's hard on everybody. I thought at one point, when we won two out of three, there was some momentum, great energy, the defense was really playing well. We were running the ball and then when that dried up on us, then we started turning the ball over. We had that bye week and then James Robinson gets hurt."
Same hereLawyers….assemble! I rarely side with owners on anything but I’ll be rooting for Jags big time in this one.
They'll each lawyer up, Meyer will get a decent % of the outstanding $, Khan will save some $, and the lawyers will make out as well after a settlement.So, yeah. I think Kahn gave a long term contract to a shitty person, and as long as Meyer was trying to do his job, then the contract should be paid in full. Kahn shouldn't be let off the hook because he ignored all common sense by hiring an asshole.
Yup, this is pretty much what I assume is going to happen as well.They'll each lawyer up, Meyer will get a decent % of the outstanding $, Khan will save some $, and the lawyers will make out as well after a settlement.
Unless there is something really egregious that hasn't been publicized yet and Khan truly wants this to go to trial, he's probably just pissed Urban was a turd and wants to drag things out while saving a few million in the process.
You have no clue if Meyer kicking a player voids a contract unless you’ve read the contract.That's quite a bold statement. You're confident there's no way he receives any of his remaining salary because he kicked someone in the leg a little hard? A story that he denies?
I get that you're of the belief that anyone who is an asshole no longer has any rights and they no longer deserve fairness or equality. I've seen that view espoused more and more frequently on these boards, and I understand that it's somehow become an unchallenged and allowed opinion. That's fine. I'm of the opinion that he's an asshole, he deserved to lose his job and be cast into shame, and that any school that hires him after this deserves all the derision it receives. Those are his punishments for his actions, and they are all well deserved.
I also believe there was a contract signed, Meyer didn't act in bad faith (he was just a shitty person and a shitty coach), and if Kahn wants to fire him, he should pay the full repercussions of making a hire that was universally panned as a bad idea a the time.
Meyer being a fucking donkey doesn't void the contract. A coach lightly kicking a player (5 on a scale of 10, right?) doesn't crack the top 5000 shitty things a football head coach has done. And he's denied that event, which is another hurdle in the legal process.
So, yeah. I think Kahn gave a long term contract to a shitty person, and as long as Meyer was trying to do his job, then the contract should be paid in full. Kahn shouldn't be let off the hook because he ignored all common sense by hiring an asshole.
Are we no longer allowed to look at things impartially? Meyer can be an asshole and still should be paid the money owed to him. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Edit - while you removed the content about me "needing to defend assholes", I think it's pretty relevant to your view on this topic as well as your response to/view of me. So, while my post makes less sense, I'm leaving it as is with the acknowledgment that you voiced your concern that I seemingly have a need to "defend assholes."
Kahn also hired Urban Meyer and is currently presiding over a football team that is a dumpster fire and a laughingstock of the NFL. He might be stellar in business, but in football related matters he is not good.You have no clue if Meyer kicking a player voids a contract unless you’ve read the contract.
Your understanding of how these kind of things work in the real world is ridiculous. This is a negotiation. Kahn didn’t get to a point in his life where he owns an NFL team by pissing away 50 million dollars when he doesn’t have to.
Oh, I forgot about the "kicking players" clause that teams have been putting in place.You have no clue if Meyer kicking a player voids a contract unless you’ve read the contract.
Your understanding of how these kind of things work in the real world is ridiculous. This is a negotiation. Kahn didn’t get to a point in his life where he owns an NFL team by pissing away 50 million dollars when he doesn’t have to.
This is an insane misrepresentation of what he said. In any case, maybe you’ll be proved right and he’ll be paid all the money. But maybe he won’t. There is a contract in place and the legal system will determine who gets what.I get that you're of the belief that anyone who is an asshole no longer has any rights and they no longer deserve fairness or equality. I've seen that view espoused more and more frequently on these boards, and I understand that it's somehow become an unchallenged and allowed opinion.
I would argue that the ability to understand and evaluate options in a situation like this is not in any way related to the ability to hire a GM or run a competent football organization. This is pretty simple, the contract Kahn signed with Meyer says he owes Meyer a shit- ton of money and Kahn has legit arguments that he shouldn’t pay that money. Any argument that Kahn should pay the full amount is asinine. That doesnt make Kahn a good owner for the Jags. It makes him not an idiot in general, with lawyers who are not idiots.Kahn also hired Urban Meyer and is currently presiding over a football team that is a dumpster fire and a laughingstock of the NFL. He might be stellar in business, but in football related matters he is not good.
It's not.This is an insane misrepresentation of what he said. In any case, maybe you’ll be proved right and he’ll be paid all the money. But maybe he won’t. There is a contract in place and the legal system will determine who gets what.
He's alluding to content from V&N and using it as a springboard here. Which should be an obvious no-no as its, like, the easiest way to drag V&N into this forum.Really jumping to defend Urban Meyer? He kicked a fucking player. Why do you feel so strongly about assholes getting the benefit of the doubt?
Ive read the thread. You said Kahn should pay up. You were worried about the precedent that might be set if he doesn’t (whatever that might be). You are absolutely certain that Kahn doesnt have an argument that Meyer can be terminated for cause. Yet you agree this will end with a negotiated settlement. Ok then.Oh, I forgot about the "kicking players" clause that teams have been putting in place.
Morality clauses are vague by the nature of the topic. There's a reason it doesn't get triggered more often.
You don't know shit about what I do or don't know about the real world. Hell, you dont even have the ability to read all the posts in the last page of this thread, as I already stated I expect the parties to come to a mutual agreement on payment.
I'll put as much weight into your opinion as you have actually put into reading the thread.
They didn’t fire him for that though. They were told in August and swept it away.Kicking a player kind of seems like the definition of cause though.
Yes. Both sides benefit greatly from a negotiated settlement. Meyer doesn't have the resources - and in all likelihood, the desire and stamina - for a long, drawn out court battle. Kahn wants to recoup some of his losses, but would have to have some slam dunk evidence to trigger a morality clause. There was a video of Meyer with a girl dancing on him. Someone said Meyer kind of kicked him, Meyer denies it. Im not a lawyer, but I'd seriously doubt thats enough to null his contract. Had Lambo filed assault charges or something? Maybe. I dunno.Ive read the thread. You said Kahn should pay up. You were worried about the precedent that might be set if he doesn’t (whatever that might be). You are absolutely certain that Kahn doesnt have an argument that Meyer can be terminated for cause. Yet you agree this will end with a negotiated settlement. Ok then.
I agree they will settle.They didn’t fire him for that though. They were told in August and swept it away.
Urban deserves to be paid. I would take his case way faster than I would take the Jags’ case. He is a piece of crap but they fired him for being a shitty coach and that is exactly what he negotiated a guaranteed contract for.
This assumes there is not something that is truly cause for firing that we do not know about.
They will settle I imagine.
Meyer absolutely has the resources to fight this if he wanted to. He is an Uber-millionaire and could absolutely take this all the way if he wanted to.Yes. Both sides benefit greatly from a negotiated settlement. Meyer doesn't have the resources - and in all likelihood, the desire and stamina - for a long, drawn out court battle. Kahn wants to recoup some of his losses, but would have to have some slam dunk evidence to trigger a morality clause. There was a video of Meyer with a girl dancing on him. Someone said Meyer kind of kicked him, Meyer denies it. Im not a lawyer, but I'd seriously doubt thats enough to null his contract. Had Lambo filed assault charges or something? Maybe. I dunno.
But that's it. There's no other evidence I'm aware of that would come close to triggering a morality clause.
Meyer gets to wash his hands of all this and avoid a long legal battle, Kahn gets $10-20M back.
So, yeah, I get it. But, I still think Kahn is wrong and that Meyer should be paid out. And that has nothing to do with how much of a piece of shit Meyer is.
No doubt. It’s a weird kind of job though. Unique. Some level of being an asshole is tolerated and the legal question is whether what he did was so outside the bounds of the risks that the employer assumed that it rises to the level of cause. As you can imagine, employees get the benefit of the doubt in these contexts when they negotiate for with cause termination.I agree they will settle.
That said, Meyer’s approach would and should be grounds for dismissal at most companies in the real world and would probably get the firm sued by his underlings
He negotiated a settlement with Davis but is also suing the NFL.Did/will Gruden get all he was owed?
Here's the problem with this discussion. We have no idea what else there might be, particularly in emails or what not.But that's it. There's no other evidence I'm aware of that would come close to triggering a morality clause.
The insanity of this interview, including Urban's claim that the world has gone soft and that his approach to "motivating people" is 100% ok, really shouldn't be overlooked.Meyer had a sit down interview with NFLN where unsurprisingly he denied all the accusations against him.
https://www.nfl.com/news/former-jaguars-head-coach-urban-meyer-discusses-his-firing
More from the interview at the above
I kept waiting for an ‘I actually FUCKING tried’, but alas.The insanity of this interview, including Urban's claim that the world has gone soft and that his approach to "motivating people" is 100% ok, really shouldn't be overlooked.
Yeah, it was really something else. His continued use of how “heartbroken” he was too came across as so fucking disingenuous — such a narcissist, still only framing it around how it impacts him and has caused him to feel for the city etc.The insanity of this interview, including Urban's claim that the world has gone soft and that his approach to "motivating people" is 100% ok, really shouldn't be overlooked.
This is the weak spot in Meyer’s case. He has to argue, on one hand, that he’s entitled to substantially the full $50M because there aren’t any lucrative job offers out there, yet on the other that what he did is run-of-the-mill behavior for a head football coach and doesn’t constitute cause for termination.No doubt. It’s a weird kind of job though. Unique. Some level of being an asshole is tolerated and the legal question is whether what he did was so outside the bounds of the risks that the employer assumed that it rises to the level of cause. As you can imagine, employees get the benefit of the doubt in these contexts when they negotiate for with cause termination.
Jags are doing what you do here. Claim it was for cause and hope Meyer is sufficiently worried about bad publicity that you can save some dollars. They would have a much better case if they had fired him immediately for the kicking or the lap dance but they tolerated it, which actually makes their case worse.
If I were mediating this case, assuming the facts are what is in the public record, I would start with a presumption that it should settle around 70/30 for Meyer.
Edit — one component in these cases is whether the employee will be released to take other jobs. Meyer is under an obligation to reasonably mitigate damages, which is a major complicating factor in how to settle these kinds of cases and will be a big issue here given his lack of hirability.
PFT thinks it is likely standard. This what he got from one he had access to.Speaking as an attorney - none of us have any idea what’s in the contract he signed and so we have no idea of the basis on which they’re saying his termination was for “cause,” since that’s going to be defined in the contract.
Vague notions of fairness or “morality clauses” or whatever don’t tell us anything about what’s on the paper he signed with the Jags. Maybe there’s no basis to fire him for cause, in which case he’s going to get his money even if it means litigating. Or maybe there’s a strong case for it, in which case he’s not. If you haven’t read the contract you don’t have any idea.
“At all times during the term of this Agreement, whether in the performance of his duties and responsibilities under this Agreement or otherwise, Coach shall conduct himself in accordance with the NFL and Club Personal Conduct Policies, high standards of honesty, morality and good conduct and shall refrain from taking any actions which could be construed as detrimental to the best interests of Club or the NFL,” a comparable contract obtained by PFT explains. “This shall include, but not be limited to, insubordination, drunkenness, any personal conduct on or off the job which could bring disgrace on or discredit to Club, the NFL or both. Coach shall conduct himself with regard to public conventions and morals, and shall not gamble or bet illegally or excessively or gamble at all on any football game or team sport, shall not use intoxicants or stimulants to excess or frequent places or associate with persons of questionable character, shall abide by all standards set forth by Club regarding appearance and standards of workmanship, shall not participate in any activity in violation of the NFL rules, constitution or bylaws, and shall not do or commit any act or thing which would tend to bring him, Club or the NFL into public hatred, contempt, scorn or ridicule, or that could shock or offend the community or ridicule public morals or decency or prejudice the NFL or Club or professional football generally.”
I think it is highly likely there is some alternative dispute resolution.This is the weak spot in Meyer’s case. He has to argue, on one hand, that he’s entitled to substantially the full $50M because there aren’t any lucrative job offers out there, yet on the other that what he did is run-of-the-mill behavior for a head football coach and doesn’t constitute cause for termination.
I’d rather have Khan’s case than Meyer’s in front of a jury. In arbitration, I’d say it’s 50/50.
Edit: I’m assuming the contract has generic language about “cause.”
Don’t know what coach would want type of job where they report to the owner and not the Gm.#Jaguars GM Trent Baalke will be retained and will be involved with owner Shad Khan in the search for a new HC. Baalke will continue to report to Khan and work in sync with the new head coach, who will also have a direct reporting line to Khan.
I understand Baalke will be involved in choosing the next guy but still considering his reputation I don't see how this won't cause conflict in the organization.Don’t know what coach would want type of job where they report to the owner and not the Gm.
I do think that's a dysfunctional organizational structure, but a lot of coaches would find it more desirable because they have more authority reporting to the owner versus the GM.Seems like whatever coach’ get hired in JAX reports directly to the onwer (Khan) and not the GM.
View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1475625710798753792?s=20
Don’t know what coach would want type of job where they report to the owner and not the Gm.
you would have thought that Khan learned his lesson after the last coaching dumpster fire.
Firing Baalke would be a smart move. As a 49ers fan who watched Baalke drive that franchise into the ground in every possible way, I'm amazed that Baalke was given another chance to run a team. Anyone who would fire Jim Harbaugh to promote Jim Tomsula should never be allowed within 1000 miles of a GM role.A Jags sponsor is trying to nullify its contract based on the Meyer firing. Their argument seems like a loser based on the limited facts offered here, but maybe they think it’s worth the expense of litigation to try to distance themselves from the clown show in Jacksonville.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33014602/sponsor-sues-jacksonville-jaguars-claiming-breach-contract-wake-urban-meyer-firing
Speaking of clown shows, some Jags’ fans intend to wear clown costumes to tomorrow’s season finale. Their goal is apparently to persuade Khan to fire Baalke.
https://apnews.com/article/nfl-sports-entertainment-indianapolis-colts-new-england-patriots-431d867f3c67740c2fd4932644dbb2e8
Baalke was hired to be Urban Meyer’s yes-man. If Meyer hadn’t been a tire fire, Baalke might have been in that role. There’s obviously concern that he’ll play a bigger role now that Meyer is gone. I’m hopeful that Khan is going to let the new coach pick his GM and decide what role, if any, Baalke should have moving forward. I’m aware there is not much historic precedent to justify this hope — other than hiring Doug Marrone, I’m at a loss to name any hiring that Khan was presumably responsible for that didn’t end badly for the club.Firing Baalke would be a smart move. As a 49ers fan who watched Baalke drive that franchise into the ground in every possible way, I'm amazed that Baalke was given another chance to run a team. Anyone who would fire Jim Harbaugh to promote Jim Tomsula should never be allowed within 1000 miles of a GM role.
Biggest gem for me:https://theathletic.com/3190484/2022/03/21/the-most-toxic-environment-ive-ever-been-a-part-of-inside-urban-meyers-disastrous-year-with-jaguars/?source=twitterhq
Some gems in there. If you thought Meyer was a stupid, kinda racist bully who didn't take his job seriously and hadn't put in any work in decades.... you'd be right.
”Who’s this 99 guy on the Rams?” Meyer asked one staffer during the season, according to a source. “I’m hearing he might be a problem for us.”
Biggest gem for me:
”Who’s this 99 guy on the Rams?” Meyer asked one staffer during the season, according to a source. “I’m hearing he might be a problem for us.”