Passive voice is not just a terrible stylistic choice.Again, there's no need to take everything at it's worst possible interpretation.
Passive voice is not just a terrible stylistic choice.Again, there's no need to take everything at it's worst possible interpretation.
"I'm sorry if anyone was offended" is EXACTLY the apology that someone who did not INTEND to offend should say. I was talking to somebody once and raised and extended my left arm. I hit a young girl in the face. I told her immediately I was "sorry and didn't mean to hit her". She said she knew it was an accident and accepted my apology. Someone else comes up and punches her dead in the face. Do you REALLY think the two incidents are the same and should have the same consequences??? He obviously can't say he "didn't mean it" when he clearly did can he? Why should Remy offer the same apology as someone who intended to offend?I think the non-apology apology had a lot to do with it.
Saying "sorry if I offended anyone" shows accountability and remorse. Whereas saying "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" - shifts the blame to the listener.
I don't know....maybe he was enlightened as to why what he said was considered offensive? Like I said, his use of passive voice shifts the blame to the audience. An apology should demonstrate accountability and remorse."I'm sorry if anyone was offended" is EXACTLY the apology that someone who did not INTEND to offend should say. I was talking to somebody once and raised and extended my left arm. I hit a young girl in the face. I told her immediately I was "sorry and didn't mean to hit her". She said she knew it was an accident and accepted my apology. Someone else comes up and punches her dead in the face. Do you REALLY think the two incidents are the same and should have the same consequences??? He obviously can't say he "didn't mean it" when he clearly did can he? Why should Remy offer the same apology as someone who intended to offend?
Finally we get a worthwhile post in this thread. Solid advice from the writing bible, still a classic despite its age.Passive voice is not just a terrible stylistic choice.
Yes. My friend lives in Japan now and he basically had to retrain how his tongue moved to make certain sounds--which sounds far more simple than it actually is. Also he's told me that grammar and things like sentence structure aren't the same---like, I think verbs come last?
edit:google says I'm right about the verb thing.
If even one Westerner involved in the meeting did not speak Japanese, that meeting was always going to be in English.Not my experience. In the industry in which I spent my career, which was computers, many of the Japanese people with an associate company we worked with in Japan learned English very well and kept up with no problem in meetings. And this applied to meetings in Japan, where the language used was English, not Japanese. Granted, if people had to communicate with English speaking folks, their management would delegate the ones that could converse in English. Also, I only knew one of our guys who tried to learn Japanese, whereas dozens of the Japanese guys we worked with got fluent in English.
That sounds more like Vietnamese.
Agree with BSF (and AFY) on all of the above. It's not just Vietnamese. There are sounds in Japanese (and Korean/Mandarin/Cantonese/Australian) which don't exist in English, and vice versa. The R/L in Japanese, and the th- in English are two that come immediately to mind. If you pay attention to where your tongue is in your mouth when making any word that starts with L in English, and then do the same for an R word, the correct tongue position for, say, Rakuten is somewhere in between those two. It will seem counter-intuitive while you see it sitting there spelled with an R, but if you're saying it like rah-rah Rakuten, you're saying it wrong. My wife, who lived in the US for about 6-7 years, still gets them wrong all the time in English. If you look at the romanization "rabu" you may think that's what you do to a baseball to get a better grip; in reality it could mean either love or lab(oratory). We do a lot of rabuingu in the rabu rabu.I don't think it's a generalization to say that the Japanese struggle with spoken English. This is a common refrain and my wife even attests to it (she's actually quite fluent because she went to HS/college here). There are some sounds from the English tongue that are foreign to them - like the L.
One thing I will say is that they study it like crazy in school and many kids love to come up to westerners to practice. I think some of the reticence to speak English may be with older generations.
That's interesting, because In post 124 you stated that "He's not sorry for his comments, and he's never going to give in." Now you're trying to claim that he did apologize and that it should be enough.He did say something unintentionally offensive. He did apologize. How did he turn it into a three day thing exactly?
I took Remy's comments during the broadcast as being classic old-player disdain for how the game changed more than anything else. But the fact that I wasn't offended doesn't mean I can't recognize when someone steps in it. And because of the times we live in and the accelerator of social media, it was pretty clear that it would blow up into something bigger.IMO, the reaction is absolutely a more important topic. People hear an out of context sound byte, make a bunch of assumptions. How is this any different from the criticisms about people rooting for the laundry and following their news soundbytes? It's not. It's exactly the same thing. And it's lazy and it's wrong.
He made an apology and it should be enough. He's not going to give you any more of an apology because he doesn't owe you one. He's sorry his opinion offended people. He's not sorry he had an opinion. It's actually not that cryptic. He isn't one one making this a three day thing. You are.That's interesting, because In post 124 you stated that "He's not sorry for his comments, and he's never going to give in." Now you're trying to claim that he did apologize and that it should be enough.
Ahem. The passive is not inherently a "terrible stylistic choice" any more than the active voice is. They're both perfectly valid tools of expression, each with a role to play. The active voice is the right choice more often than the passive, but then, the indicative mood is the right choice more often than the interrogative, and nobody goes around talking about how the interrogative mood is a terrible stylistic choice.Passive voice is not just a terrible stylistic choice.
I was being facetious. Not to explain the joke, but:Ahem. The passive is not inherently a "terrible stylistic choice" any more than the active voice is.
If the passive was the wrong choice here, it's because it gives the impression that Remy is trying to evade responsibility by removing himself from the story.
Wait, what? Now you're saying that everyone in the world should have the exact same opinion as you?I don't mind "those who were offended" apologies for passive voice. I mind them because of the implication there is a substantial group that weren't or shouldn't have been offended. I also mind them because it is not merely the "offended" who are owed apologies.
DDB can certainly speak for himself, but I read that as Remy implying/inferring his own belief that few people could/should have been offended by his comments.Wait, what? Now you're saying that everyone in the world should have the exact same opinion as you?
Try German. In subordinate and dependent clauses the verb comes last. At one point in my life I could think in French and I got along pretty well in Italian but my German was basically composed of a large vocabulary.Yes. My friend lives in Japan now... Also he's told me that grammar and things like sentence structure aren't the same---like, I think verbs come last?
edit:google says I'm right about the verb thing.
Wait, what? Now you're saying that everyone in the world should have the exact same opinion as you?
Right, thanks Yaz. Not everyone has to agree with me. But an apology is the wrong place to try to note, in a backhanded way, that lots of people agree with you.DDB can certainly speak for himself, but I read that as Remy implying/inferring his own belief that few people could/should have been offended by his comments.
Leaping from that to saying DDB saying that everyone should think as he does would require a human cannonball landing onto a trampoline and then springing into the launch system of a catapult.
Yeah, I know. It's just that that passive-voice shibboleth is a pet peeve of mine, and anyway, I thought it might be fun to argue about grammar for a while as a break from arguing about Remdawg's woes.I was being facetious. Not to explain the joke, but:
Not for nothing, but drop by "you're wrong but I'll drop it posts" are bullshit. If you have a point to make, make it. I can take it. If you make a good point, I'll say I was wrong. If you don't I'll respond. Why wouldn't this thread be an obviously appropriate place to discuss Jerry Remy's apology?That...makes absolutely no sense. But this is not the place to debate it, so I'll drop it.
That would be better left to a thread discussing the topic.Why wouldn't this thread be an obviously appropriate place to discuss Jerry Remy's apology?
3 of these things is not like the others.10 years ago, coach/mentor Johnny Pesky was banned from the Red Sox dugout.
Now, we have translators making mound visits.
And announcers are forced to apologize because they question the rules.
He should show remorse for having an opinion? What? And it's "silly" to argue intent? Really? Spend any time in a courtroom lately? Count how many times the word intended to, intent, or intentions comes up throughout the day. Then maybe you would rethink that ridiculous statement.I don't know....maybe he was enlightened as to why what he said was considered offensive? Like I said, his use of passive voice shifts the blame to the audience. An apology should demonstrate accountability and remorse.
Your example makes no sense. Your apology is in active voice and connotes accountability and remorse. It's silly to argue intent as no one but the offender truly knows that. Everyone else just "believes" they know and base their opinion on that.
You're talking about the company that employs Steve Lyons and ditched Orsillo for O'Brien. I'm not sure it's an issue of "can't."It's hard to believe that NESN can't do better.
Well, I watch ESPN broadcasts and I never especially cared for Remy and it got to the point where Remy/Orsillo were a joke. Then they gave DOB a sock and in between his myriad of getting the count/outs/runs/etc wrong and his "hoovering up", I think it is time to start anew. His slang aside, I could probably deal with Eckersley.FWIW, as an out-of-town fan who rarely watches NESN broadcasts, I don't get the love so many Sox fans have for Jerry Remy.
Something I've learned: when you read "PC", you can freely substitute "not-being-a-garbage-person" and the real meaning intimated becomes apparent. Every time. It's remarkable.all this PC bullshit
As a former interpreter for a minor league baseball team I can tell you that "the language of baseball" as I experienced it was "baseball English" which is so replete with jargon, slang and idiosyncratic phrasing that even as a native speaker of English there were times when I struggled to understand exactly what the pitching coach was trying to say. I guess you could say baseball people share a common language, but only in that baseball English itself might be classifiable as a distinct dialect of the language. This is not a factor that eases communication between languages. People who can't even understand basic English are not going to be magically superior at understanding jargon-filled dialects.Isn't roughly 80%+ of the "language of baseball" non-verbal? Is it at all possible this is what Remy was referring to? 1-2-3 fingers, open/closed mouth, waving of hands/arms are all part of the "language of baseball". What can a pitching coach really discuss in a timed mound visit? Can they come up with a system to cover "are you tired", "keep your shoulder in", "pitch this guy away/in, off-speed pitches/fastball etc." The pitching coach has a very small and finite number of things he is going to cover and those are likely to be repeated throughout the season. I don't care either way if they use a translator but I also don't think they need much if any english proficiency to get through a mound visit.
I agree with the minority that this is making a mountain out of a molehill. Remy never said "Speak English MFcka" yet that is now the narrative. By the way I've wanted Remy gone since the original Remdawg fan club days that he would promote endlessly on air so I am far, far from a Remy supporter.
You should write about this. I'd pay to read it.As a former interpreter for a minor league baseball team
You don't know anything about me. Nothing. I simply LOVE how anytime anyone disagrees with someone like you, they are a piece of shit and they suck and blah blah blah. And liberals preach tolerance. Liberals have as much tolerance as Al Sharpton has Reverence.Something I've learned: when you read "PC", you can freely substitute "not-being-a-garbage-person" and the real meaning intimated becomes apparent. Every time. It's remarkable.
When your opinions suck, people tell you your opinions suck and your opinions can impact others' willingness to do business with you or put up with your shit. Contrition and understanding why your opinions suck, then, become the road to both being a decent person and keeping your business interests afloat. Strange, huh?
Would you like some liniment? It looks like you sprained your shoulder while patting yourself on the back for your moral superiority. You Americans are a terrifying lot of far right wing nutjobs.Something I've learned: when you read "PC", you can freely substitute "not-being-a-garbage-person" and the real meaning intimated becomes apparent. Every time. It's remarkable.
When your opinions suck, people tell you your opinions suck and your opinions can impact others' willingness to do business with you or put up with your shit. Contrition and understanding why your opinions suck, then, become the road to both being a decent person and keeping your business interests afloat. Strange, huh?
In America, he's considered a far left wing nutjob.Would you like some liniment? It looks like you sprained your shoulder while patting yourself on the back for your moral superiority. You Americans are a terrifying lot of far right wing nutjobs.
I read this screed (well, about six lines of it) in Hulk Hogan's voice and it made me giggle uncontrollably.I simply LOVE how anytime anyone disagrees with someone like you, they are a piece of shit and they suck and blah blah blah.
Unfortunately the world is a bit more complex than this. It requires one engage in a certain amount of reflexive thinking about behavior, so that one is not, however inadvertently, a complete asshole, no matter how honest or competent one is.That's my entire point. Make the rules the same. It's ok to laugh or make fun of EVERYONE, or It's not ok to make fun of ANYONE. This is the shit that pisses me off. Make the rules the same. Not pick and choose according to what SOME people think is OK.
There's a fallacy the MAGA wing of the American political spectrum tends to fall into (and I'm not saying you are or aren't a Trump voter, that's not the point here), which is to think that these two sentences express a single, virtuous thought. In fact they express two very distinct thoughts, one of which is indeed virtuous, the other morally irrelevant at best. It is absolutely a good thing to believe whatever you say, but the fact that you believe it does not make what you say good, or even make it good that you say it. And the fact that society is telling you to believe something else doesn't make it good either. The goodness (or lack thereof) lies in the content of your speech.But they knew when I said something, it was 100% what I believed. Not what society told me I SHOULD believe.
It's the fact that he considers himself a left winger that makes America terrifying. It's an entire country oblivious to the fact that 99% of the population falls to the right of Pinochet on the political spectrum.In America, he's considered a far left wing nutjob.
When it comes to issues about immigrants, sexuality, race, religion,etc., the world is simple. But add in ONLY the size and/or weight of someone, and all of a sudden the world is "too complex." Sure. But then again, only a "complete asshole" would want to include people of size or height anyway, right?Unfortunately the world is a bit more complex than this. It requires one engage in a certain amount of reflexive thinking about behavior, so that one is not, however inadvertently, a complete asshole, no matter how honest or competent one is.
Good luck, Kun.
Goodbye means goodbye???
If only we had an interpreter....