Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,684
Was travelling for work since after game 1, just getting caught up around here, and so may be posting some thoughts that others have already said somewhere else

People talk about the 'chess match' between coaches in playoff basketball, but I think that sometimes 'rock, paper, scissors' is the better analogy. Both coaching staffs make decisions before a game, and then you find out what happens when they come together.

In that vein, my read of game 2 & 3 is that a few things happened at once:
  • Joe and Boston's coaching staff decided to try a defensive strategy along the lines of 'make sure to not give up dribble penetration, with less of a contest of outside shots if needed' at the same time that Miami's coaching staff told their team something like 'get into our offense fast, look and take the first good three you can, take as many 3s as possible'
  • Once the game started the 'soft contests are OK' part of 'deny dribble penetration', in practice, turned into much less ball pressure and lots more open Miami 3s than Boston expected or wanted. On paper, when Boston's coaches drew it up, the game plan wasn't to turn Miami's outside looks into a version of pre-game shoot-around. But once our guys tried to implement the plan things shifted too far in that direction.
  • Joe being a numbers guy, he might have watched the first half and thought "Miami can't keep shooting this good forever; we're up at the half; I'll keep telling my guys to tighten things up; law of averages kicks w/r/t Miami's shooting and we'll win this thing comfortably'
  • Law of averages did not kick in. And both our offensive safety valve (Porzingis) and our 'things have gone to crap create something off the dribble' guy (Jrue) had their worst shooting nights in a while.
  • So then, after game 2, Joe and Boston's coaching staff probably looked at each other and said something like 'Fuck it, that defensive strategy was too cute by half. Let's go back to pressuring them all over the court, running them off the three point line, and then rotating aggressively to deal with dribble penetration when it happens.' Which is more or less that we've done all year. And in game 3 lo and behold that defense worked much better, Porzingis had a nice bounce-back game, and we won comfortably
So-- I'm not sure if this has been said somewhere-- but to me the big irony / story about game 2 was the Joe (who keeps getting hammered for how he's not as good as Spo at things like playoff adjustments) didn't need to make big defensive adjustments. But he did, perhaps thinking he was getting ahead of whatever Spo was going to do. And then it didn't work. And so we switched back and were fine.

Sec-- who hasn't posted over here in lord knows how long-- used to have a great point about the mistakes people can make when they feel public pressure to be seen taking action.

As he used to say: "Don't just do something --> stand there!"
Love it. I think we also forget that "adjustments" can't just be robotically implemented. The players clearly had trouble executing the scheme, probably due to effort issues, but maybe lack of familiarity too.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,108

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,684
Interesting stat....
View: https://twitter.com/MichaelVPina/status/1785313908045033802


Joe Mazz appears to be winning the ATO battle against Spo (in fairness he has better talent to work with).
The talent is way better, but given how many people were ready to crown Spo's ass in this coaching matchup, CJM needs to get a lot of credit.

Even the one "bad" gameplan in game 2 probably looks a lot better if the players execute closeouts properly and play with effort.

He's doing a lot better in his Heat Challenge than Brad, Ime, or Joe 1.0 did. The team is so, so focused, and one step ahead of most of Spo's moves.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,263
The talent is way better, but given how many people were ready to crown Spo's ass in this coaching matchup, CJM needs to get a lot of credit.

Even the one "bad" gameplan in game 2 probably looks a lot better if the players execute closeouts properly and play with effort.

He's doing a lot better in his Heat Challenge than Brad, Ime, or Joe 1.0 did. The team is so, so focused, and one step ahead of most of Spo's moves.
Spo also isn't really an ATO wizard, he's good at it, but most of his stuff is gameplan, defense switching.

The big thing I've noticed is.... even after KP went out... the Celtics just are not phased by zone anymore. They went to it last night with KP out, and even without the KP cheat code, Celtics worked it, got a mistake out of the D, hit a wide open 3 from White, went down, worked it some more and Spo swapped out.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,855
San Francisco
Spo also isn't really an ATO wizard, he's good at it, but most of his stuff is gameplan, defense switching.

The big thing I've noticed is.... even after KP went out... the Celtics just are not phased by zone anymore. They went to it last night with KP out, and even without the KP cheat code, Celtics worked it, got a mistake out of the D, hit a wide open 3 from White, went down, worked it some more and Spo swapped out.
weren’t the back to back dwhite dunks on zone too?
 

Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
2,804
Boston, MA
This belongs here, I think:

“It started with Joe [Mazzulla],” White said. “Ever since he took over, he’s given me the most confidence and I can talk to him and he can talk to me and that relationship is just getting better and better each day and it’s amazing to play for him and I love it. We’ve got such great players on the team but they allow me to do what I do and believe in me.”
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,108
Even the one "bad" gameplan in game 2 probably looks a lot better if the players execute closeouts properly and play with effort.
Scal said after G3 - and I agree with him - that from the Cs POV, this isn't a series about adjustments. It's not like the Cs have to figure out who is guarding whom or where help is coming from. It's not like the Cs are changing substitution patters or where players are being stationed or what actions they are running.

The Cs are better than MIA and if they play with intention and physicality, they are going to win. They just need to keep doing what they've done in the regular season and what they are doing here in this series.

Which is not what happened in G2.

It was great that CJM didn't overreact to that clunker.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,684
No one's going to give him credit because they were supposed to beat the corpse of the Heat, but Mazzulla did great stuff to attack mismatches out of empty PnR and on the move. Instead of iso'ing Herro, they kept bringing his man in to screen, and then were able to attack him while he was switching and chasing the play. Really good stuff to exploit a shitty defender while not letting Miami load up with late help.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,813
This belongs here, I think:
“It started with Joe [Mazzulla],” White said. “Ever since he took over, he’s given me the most confidence and I can talk to him and he can talk to me and that relationship is just getting better and better each day and it’s amazing to play for him and I love it. We’ve got such great players on the team but they allow me to do what I do and believe in me.”
In the calculus of "CJM vs Udoka as better head coach", White's startling improvement has to count in Mazzulla's favor. Maybe the same improvement would have happened under Udoka, but I doubt it when I recall how tentative White looked during the 2022 playoffs.

Lots of athletes are wired with irrational swagger and confidence. White comes across as more of a normal human in this respect, both for better and for worse. Probably having a hard-ass like Udoka was valuable for certain players on the roster at a certain point in their collective development, but it seems clear that White has benefited from having more of a "players' coach."
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,995
Melrose, MA
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2024/05/joe-mazzulla-makes-savvy-move-to-fuel-celtics-game-5-rout-vs-heat-robb.html

The Heat made the decision after Game 1 to have Bam Adebayo spend a lot more time defending Jayson Tatum. That trend continued out of the gate in Game 5 where Adebayo was the All-Star primary defender.

Mazzulla saw this tactic and made a point of emphasis to use it against the Heat particularly well in Game 5. Miami has no meaningful rim protection and plenty of subpar defenders when Adebayo is otherwise occupied out of the paint. So Boston made a point to keep Tatum far away from offensive actions in the early part of the first quarter.

With Tatum on the other side of the floor or outside the arc, Adebayo’s ability to be a help defender was thwarted constantly. It’s hard to get across the floor as is and leaving Tatum open is not really an option. Mazzulla and to his credit, Tatum, were happy to take Adebayo out of the equation and let Boston’s supporting cast feast against what was left of Miami’s defense.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,995
Melrose, MA
With the caveat that Spo's available talent was extremely limited, CJM and Tatum played him like a fiddle this series imo.
That caveat matters. But Joe has to coach against, and the Celtics play against, the actual opposing team, injuries and all. Have to give Joe and the team credit for doing it.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,684
That caveat matters. But Joe has to coach against, and the Celtics play against, the actual opposing team, injuries and all. Have to give Joe and the team credit for doing it.
I also give them credit for blowing Miami out in every win. Beating the lesser team is great--not letting them into the game at all is much better (and harder).
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,243
Hingham, MA
I also give them credit for blowing Miami out in every win. Beating the lesser team is great--not letting them into the game at all is much better (and harder).
To this point, the Celts hit 99% win probability:
game 1 - 3:28 left in Q3
game 3 - 1:26 left in Q2
game 4 - 5:25 left in Q3
game 5 - 8:35 left in Q2

I think I got that correct. That's crazy.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,684
To this point, the Celts hit 99% win probability:
game 1 - 3:28 left in Q3
game 3 - 1:26 left in Q2
game 4 - 5:25 left in Q3
game 5 - 8:35 left in Q2

I think I got that correct. That's crazy.
That is completely insane.
 

changer591

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
1,025
Shrewsbury, MA
I laughed out loud last night when they showed that the money line was off the board and it was like a few minutes into the third quarter. I believe Scam said he had never seen that before.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,684
I thought Mazzulla was better than the players last night. Aggressive timeouts when they hit dumb lulls, used Kornet more to limit Al's minutes, schemes on D were strong. The offensive issues were mostly from the players missing shots or throwing the ball to the other team.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,502
Pittsburgh, PA
Yes, Kornet's minutes went from 7:51 in Game 3 to 19:28 last night. He listened to what the Port Cellar wanted him to do! Therefore, he must be coaching well :)

And the timeout thing has become such a non-issue at this point that we hardly notice it from him. He takes 'em right about when we'd want him to take them. No more of this "they'll figure it out".
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,243
Hingham, MA
Yes, Kornet's minutes went from 7:51 in Game 3 to 19:28 last night. He listened to what the Port Cellar wanted him to do! Therefore, he must be coaching well :)

And the timeout thing has become such a non-issue at this point that we hardly notice it from him. He takes 'em right about when we'd want him to take them. No more of this "they'll figure it out".
True though last night he let it go from 15 to 7 or 8 in the 4th without calling one. Not egregious though.
 

jezza1918

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,838
South Dartmouth, MA
I thought Mazzulla was better than the players last night. Aggressive timeouts when they hit dumb lulls, used Kornet more to limit Al's minutes, schemes on D were strong. The offensive issues were mostly from the players missing shots or throwing the ball to the other team.
The only time I got a bit annoyed was in the middle of the 4th when Celts were up 98-83 after Jaylens somewhat ill-advised but beautiful turnaround, and then came up empty on a bunch of possessions and Cleveland eventually had the ball down 98-91 with a chance to get it within 5 with about 5 min to go. Watching live it felt like at some point a TO would've helped.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
38,243
Hingham, MA
The only time I got a bit annoyed was in the middle of the 4th when Celts were up 98-83 after Jaylens somewhat ill-advised but beautiful turnaround, and then came up empty on a bunch of possessions and Cleveland eventually had the ball down 98-91 with a chance to get it within 5 with about 5 min to go. Watching live it felt like at some point a TO would've helped.
Jinx.
 

Senator Donut

post-Domer
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2010
5,573
What do you think is the main hesitation behind not trying a small lineup (i.e. Tatum or Tillman at the 5)? Is it the lack of regular season minutes or threat of Mobley that makes them hesitant to try even with Horford's two bad games? I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, but I'm surprised it hasn't been tried.
 

bellowthecat

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2010
610
Massachusetts
What do you think is the main hesitation behind not trying a small lineup (i.e. Tatum or Tillman at the 5)? Is it the lack of regular season minutes or threat of Mobley that makes them hesitant to try even with Horford's two bad games? I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, but I'm surprised it hasn't been tried.
Probably because they're already asking so much out of Tatum that they don't want to gas him further by playing the 5. He's playing heavy minutes of high usage basketball. He's already slowing the pace down late as the 4. If you want him to play the 5 he will need either lower usage or fewer minutes. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some of it earlier in the game, but I'm also confident in Al and Luke to get the job done.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,684
Probably because they're already asking so much out of Tatum that they don't want to gas him further by playing the 5. He's playing heavy minutes of high usage basketball. He's already slowing the pace down late as the 4. If you want him to play the 5 he will need either lower usage or fewer minutes. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some of it earlier in the game, but I'm also confident in Al and Luke to get the job done.
Yeah, he's already limiting his (very effective) drive quantity, probably for energy conservation.
 

CreightonGubanich

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,392
north shore, MA
What do you think is the main hesitation behind not trying a small lineup (i.e. Tatum or Tillman at the 5)? Is it the lack of regular season minutes or threat of Mobley that makes them hesitant to try even with Horford's two bad games? I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, but I'm surprised it hasn't been tried.
I think it's a combination of never having done it, and thinking they don't need to do it to win the series. I think there's a concern that it would put too much on Tatum's plate (although in a theoretical Tatum-at-the-5 lineup, I think you play Tatum on the wing as a help defender and let Jaylen or Jrue guard the big).

Still, if that lineup induced the Cavs to throw away their offense in favor of dumping the ball to Mobley in the post over and over again, I think that's a win from the Celtics' perspective.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,995
Melrose, MA
Probably because they're already asking so much out of Tatum that they don't want to gas him further by playing the 5. He's playing heavy minutes of high usage basketball. He's already slowing the pace down late as the 4. If you want him to play the 5 he will need either lower usage or fewer minutes. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some of it earlier in the game, but I'm also confident in Al and Luke to get the job done.
I think that would only apply to the idea of going small against a team that is playing a typical lineup. If the Cavs go small and it works for them, I don't see anything wrong with the Celtics responding in kind. I don't see why Tatum would be less gassed matching up agaisnt the same guy just because Horford/Kornet and Mobley/Thompson are in the game vs out of it.