Latest from Heyman. http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24856029/sf-tries-for-lester-cubs-said-to-bid-138m-sox-130m-braves-less?v=1&vc=1
tl;dr
Sox offer 130, Cubs 138, Braves less
tl;dr
Sox offer 130, Cubs 138, Braves less
http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24856029/sf-tries-for-lester-cubs-said-to-bid-138m-sox-130m-braves-lessSources suggest the Cubs have bid $138 million over six years for Lester, and the Red Sox suggested at least a willingness to go to $130 million for six years, while word is the Braves, Lester's current hometown team, bid somewhat lower than that. It's possible also that Chicago and Boston may will go up from there, if they haven't already.
Rice4HOF said:Article ends with this :
With all the interest, though, it seems like Lester will have the chance to become a $25-million-a-year player with a contract for $150 million or more.
6/$150? No thank you.
Eh, $23M or $25M. That $2M per year will have less a negative impact on the roster than spending less for a lesser pitcher. It may change who they seek as their number 2, and a guy like Tyson Ross may become more prominent because of his low cost. The downside is he'll likely cost the franchise more talent because of his years of control.. If he doesn't sign here, I don't doubt they can assemble a rotation to compete in 2015, but I dislike the cost in prospects, even with their surplus. That $2M per year is peanuts compared with the value of the kids they'll have to give up. Now if someone goes to 7 years, that may be a bridge too far.Rice4HOF said:Article ends with this :
With all the interest, though, it seems like Lester will have the chance to become a $25-million-a-year player with a contract for $150 million or more.
6/$150? No thank you.
mloyko54 said:If 8 million is all that seperates the Cubs and the Red Sox, Lester is not going to Chicago. I don't know why people continue to think Lester is going to take every penny when he's said multiple times that money is not the most important thing. If the Red Sox are close he's coming back.
mloyko54 said:If 8 million is all that seperates the Cubs and the Red Sox, Lester is not going to Chicago. I don't know why people continue to think Lester is going to take every penny when he's said multiple times that money is not the most important thing. If the Red Sox are close he's coming back.
Because talk is cheap, players say this kind of stuff all the time, and in the vast majority of cases free agents end up taking the highest offer they can find, especially if its differentiated from the next highest offer by as much as $8M.mloyko54 said:If 8 million is all that seperates the Cubs and the Red Sox, Lester is not going to Chicago. I don't know why people continue to think Lester is going to take every penny when he's said multiple times that money is not the most important thing. If the Red Sox are close he's coming back.
OnWisc said:If Theo was at $158 vs our $150, I'd be more inclined to view Lester as Wrigley-bound. But he's not signing for $130 or $138, so those numbers don't mean a whole lot, even relative to one another.
It's the last, best offer that matters and I sincerely doubt either of these represent that for the Cubs or the Sox.
Is this serious or are you just poking us with a sharp stick?EvilEmpire said:Just wait until he takes less than Chicago and Boston to go to Atlanta.
No stick, just tongue firmly placed in cheek.Otis Foster said:Is this serious or are you just poking us with a sharp stick?
We're at the point where the RS should ask Levinson if he's tested the market sufficiently and ask what he's hearing. If it's attainable, then ask him if he has the authority from JL to accept on the spot, or will there be another round of calls/visits. If he has no authority, or equivocates, you have to face the possibility Jon is going elsewhere, and that further delay in deciding this may obstruct bidding on Miller, finding your Plan B starter(s), etc.
There are too many things that need to be sorted out this off-season that won't be if the RS allow the carousel to keep spinning.
You gotta draw the line somewhere though. What if both the Cubs and Sox go up a few million? Should the Sox go up a few million more?joe dokes said:To the Sox, a few million more per season is really peanuts. I think that while they will stand pretty firm at the 6
years, I think they'll have no trouble going to 150 total, or even a bit more.
EDIT: As Mr. Young put it first.
Dan to Theo to Ben said:Just offer him $139 and be done with it. It's not that much higher AAV than Pablo got and he's unproven in Fenway.
mattymatty said:I don't understand how someone can bring up Lester's comments about taking a home-town discount now. The Red Sox traded him. They had a shot to sign him to that home-town deal and declined. To me that makes Lester's comments moot. If Lester really wanted to come back, over and above taking the best contract or finding the best situation, or a combination of the two, he'd have done it by now, like Hanley Ramirez did. He'd have instructed his agents that Boston is where his heart is and he wants a fair contract but he wants to go back to Boston. He hasn't done that. He's played the field which is his right to do. You look at $130 million and $138 million and say there's no difference, but there is a difference and it's $8 million dollars! That's a huge amount of money. [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]He may yet come back, but the Red Sox are going to have to win the bidding or come darn close for that to happen. [/SIZE]
Maybe, but if you keep eating small pieces of the pie, you eventually still eat the whole pie. Once they go to 6/150, then we can play the "it's only 3m a year difference" game again. And again after that. The fact is, the Sox certainly have a range in mind, and it's doubtful that they'll stray far from that. If Lester wants the biggest contract possible, which is his right, I have a hard time seeing that coming from Boston.BCsMightyJoeYoung said:By the time the dust settles Lester's probably going to get in the vicinity of 6/150 .. With maybe a vesting option for a seventh.
I believe the Sox will go that high .. If they are willing to go 6/130 then it's only 3m a year difference. That's not going to break their budget. Considering they have invested heavily in next year's team being competitive I can't see them pinching (millions of) pennies at this point.
It could be as simple as Lester is pretty happy with the way the offers are escalating and he's told his agent, "Let's get all we can from the Sox and then sign with them." John Henry is worth BILLIONS, so why not extract as much money as you can from him. Take the Sox to the max and get all you can from this billionaire and then sign. It's exactly what I would do. Varitek did the same thing and got as much as he could from the Sox and then signed with them.Otis Foster said:BTW, I'm becoming pessimistic on this. If loyalty had any remaining pull on Jon I think we would have seen this reflected in the negotiations by now.
Manramsclan said:
I raise your $139 to 6/$144.
That also puts pressure on Lester, as he was quoted as saying that would be tough to turn down after Scherzer turned it down before the season.
After that, if he does leave, the onus is squarely on him while the Red Sox have made more than a token raise to the Cubs offer.
We know that optics are important to this FO. Operating this way shows that they are both fair and generous and do so before the contract spins out into crazy territory.(More years or more AAV) This is the smartest play: He'll look greedy if he doesn't take it, and the Sox will look like they made their best effort and hell, he might even sign it.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Of course money is part of his decision and I don't think anyone is suggesting it's not. They're suggesting the absolute last dollar may not be the deciding factor. I'm not saying that he's different than the hundreds of other athletes that say "money isn't everything in this decision" and he very well may be blowing smoke (or did), but it's also possible that he might just be enjoying the experience of exploring the market. This is the first and likely only time he will get the full court press from teams like this and it's not completely inconceivable that he's enjoying getting wooed. A few free trips, nice meals and the red carpet treatment would probably make most people at least look around.
Hank Scorpio said:....I think now is the time to change things up a bit with their offer. Ideas such as:
- Include some really big incentives for stuff like Cy Young Awards and Playoff MVPs. Might be a good pot-sweetener to throw in a $2M incentive for a CYA. Expensive, yes, but even if it took his annual salary to say $27M, it would mean he's arguably out-pitching the likes of Hernandez, Sale, etc...
This is often stated but I'm not sure how true it is. Forbes.com has him listed as being worth $1.4 Billion, a lot of money for sure, but by no means the richest sports owner.Hee Sox Choi said:It could be as simple as Lester is pretty happy with the way the offers are escalating and he's told his agent, "Let's get all we can from the Sox and then sign with them." John Henry is worth BILLIONS, so why not extract as much money as you can from him. Take the Sox to the max and get all you can from this billionaire and then sign. It's exactly what I would do. Varitek did the same thing and got as much as he could from the Sox and then signed with them.
JohntheBaptist said:You know why guys say its not all about the money? Because a) it sounds good and its what people want to hear b) it is remarkably easy to construct a narrative of comfort no matter where you end up.
Maybe he takes the slightly lower number if it is real close, but he will go to the highest bidder because there is nothing about doing that that contradicts "comfort." Latching on to that as meaning only the Red Sox is definitely, as was noted, totally naive.
Plus he is clearly actively testing the market, which suggests money is already, by definition, a part of his decision.
reggiecleveland said:
Steve Rushin's old air and space column in SI point out nonsense phrases used in sports. "Not the money" was easy to write. He had a whole column of guys that said they were not looking ofr money that signed for top dollar. There was maybe two paragraphs on guys ending up on the Yankees after saying they wanted to stay with their teams and didn't want the money, but ended up Yankees.
Manramsclan said:
I raise your $139 to 6/$144.
That also puts pressure on Lester, as he was quoted as saying that would be tough to turn down after Scherzer turned it down before the season.
The Red Sox alone are worth 1.5 billion (but I guess he doesn't own 100%). Liverpool is worth 700 million. My point is that Henry is filthy rich so why not take him to the limit of what he is willing to pay and then when you get to that point, accept Henry's highest offer? Makes sense to me and we have precedent with Tek. Anyway, just speculation on my part, as I still have hope that that is what Lester is doing.Merkle's Boner said:This is often stated but I'm not sure how true it is. Forbes.com has him listed as being worth $1.4 Billion, a lot of money for sure, but by no means the richest sports owner.
Exactly. The idea that "comfort" = coming back to Boston just seems like wishful fanboy thinking. There are all kinds of ways to be comfortable. Chicago's an awesome town, the Cubs are a great old franchise desperately in need of a hero, and Theo is a familiar and (presumably) trusted figure. Atlanta is near home, and he'd be the leader of a fine young rotation there. SF is Boston West and the park is a LHP's dream.JohntheBaptist said:
I'm not sure where you're suggesting we're disagreeing. My point is that those "comfort" comments tell us literally nothing about where he'll go.
Henry doesn't own Manchester United. FSG owns Liverpool.Hee Sox Choi said:The Red Sox alone are worth 1.5 billion (but I guess he doesn't own 100%). Manchester United is worth 700 million. My point is that Henry is filthy rich so why not take him to the limit of what he is willing to pay and then when you get to that point, accept Henry's highest offer? Makes sense to me and we have precedent with Tek. Anyway, just speculation on my part, as I still have hope that that is what Lester is doing.
Do you have anything to add or just tired Yankee paranoia?gryoung said:"Before you sign anywhere, get back to me with the offer you have in hand and let's see what we can do."
-BC
GM of the NYY
LahoudOrBillyC said:Lester to Chicago would be a cool story. I'd be happy with it.
Yaz4Ever said:I was originally hopeful that 6/$120M would get this done (and quickly). That ship has obviously sailed. It's not my money, but I would draw a line in the sand with a final offer (6/$140?) with a deadline. We have the prospects to get a couple of studs and we can always make a run at Scherzer at a higher AAV for fewer years (if he'd consider it). Jon's history of success at Fenway and pitching against the AL East is worth a lot, obviously, but at some point it simply become madness. I have little doubt Ben Cherington is working the phones for alternate SP while negotiating in good faith with Lester's people. If Jon were serious about wanting to come back to Boston and that money isn't everything, I think the 6/$130 is a very fair offer. If we increase it to $140M like I suggested and he still balks at it, I'd say the FO has done everything they can and shouldn't be cast the villains in this story. Yes, they could've offered more in the Spring, but they've certainly showed their love for him with the reported offer. If the love isn't reciprocated, that's fine. He's free to sign with whomever he'd like and I won't fault him for it (unless he goes to the Bronx), but I don't think the guys in Boston should be faulted either at this point.