“It probably will be lower than it was in 2023” is a direct quote from Kennedy. How that could mean anything other than “the Boston Red Sox expect to spend less in 2024 than the previous year” is beyond me.
Let's Lay Off That Throttle
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
No wonder none of the legit team President/GM candidates considered the Sox this off-season. The perception in the industry of ownership’s lack of resolve to spend to win has been confirmed by ownership itself.
Craig Breslow may be a fine person and may eventually become a good GM, but he was a bargain basement candidate. He is a perfect analog to how ownership approaches player free agency.
Craig Breslow may be a fine person and may eventually become a good GM, but he was a bargain basement candidate. He is a perfect analog to how ownership approaches player free agency.
Gammons is on Twitter claiming FSG has suffered financial losses this off season and that in time the "true story" will be told. Claims Breslow does not have the payroll he thought he would have. Interesting. I'd imagine the true story Gammo is referencing is going to come out before opening day.
FSG is not selling - there is $1.6 Billion in real estate development around Fenway.
All in all these quotes are pretty brazen though.
My guess is FSG looks at ticket prices in the context of entertainment prices. Concert tickets are batcrap crazy expensive. And so they believe that the "Fenway experience" is priced fairly, and do not believe winning or losing matter much in that price.
Based on this I would not expect either Snell or Montgomery.
The Gammons story is interesting. It cites executives at other teams though.
All in all these quotes are pretty brazen though.
My guess is FSG looks at ticket prices in the context of entertainment prices. Concert tickets are batcrap crazy expensive. And so they believe that the "Fenway experience" is priced fairly, and do not believe winning or losing matter much in that price.
Based on this I would not expect either Snell or Montgomery.
The Gammons story is interesting. It cites executives at other teams though.
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When the Sox were held by the trust and there were real limitations on spending, they still found a way to bring in Manny and trade for Pedro. When the team was sold and they started to really compete for some top free agent players, it was like nothing I ever expected as a Sox fan. Now the team has won the World Series four times in the last 20 years, is the third most valuable franchise in MLB, and is ownership’s cash cow to do other things because Fenway will always sell tickets, even if it isn’t to Red Sox fans. People will have differing opinions about all of this, but this is a low point in the franchise’s recent history. Many fans may be turned off and fans from before the good times will probably be happy to see them go. There is nothing any of us can do, but I am not I inspired to invest any time or money in an ownership group that isn’t willing to invest in the product they put on the field.
View: https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/1748662972308758658?s=46
This is the interesting one in the thread. What a complete fumble.
This is the interesting one in the thread. What a complete fumble.
All the executives passing on even interviewing for the position was an absolute clear and present sign of the shit show going down on Yawkey Way. I mean, it was plain as day; one of the most prestigious organizations in the league couldn't even get people in for interviews. Breslow must be stoked.
In fairness, Breslow knew what he was getting into so I doubt any of this is a surprise to him. But, yes, I think the fact that scores of candidates wouldn’t even interview was a pretty bad look and ominous sign.
Gammons is saying he didn’t know what he was getting into and that the payroll numbers have shifted. He says that directly.
Of course we don't know if Breslow was misled about the payroll. His last statement about building/spending started something like "As I have gotten to know this ownership better..."
Sorry, I don’t have Globe subscription so all I could read was what was linked on the tweet above.
Gammons is saying the payroll isn’t what he was told it’s going to be.
It’s a disastrous start.
Fact: I posited that ownership cared more about money than fans for awhile. I got a lot of snark for it.
Fact: owners have acted in a way that's been not great to fans for the third most valuable franchise in mlb.
Fact: if you don't like my posts feel free to skip them.
I guess they were going with the other meaning to "throttle"; to close down and reduce.
Sadly, that's not how QAnon works, it just extends or doubles down as we see with...
What those of us who have been citing all the rumors of lowered payroll as a point of concern are looking at is a team that needs improvement that can come with spending money, and the team isn't willing to do so. So, sure we'll wait and see how the entire offseason plays out, and then we'll watch the season (with varying amounts of interest and committed dollars). What will it actually take for you to believe that the reports that they're not going to spend are true?
FSG & Sox Ownership is like Michael Douglas in Falling Down, demanding to pay $.50 for a can of Coke, just without the baseball bat.
Yes, we allowed some venting that we normally don't for a while, and we want to see the passion in posts, but let's bring some content too.
I will say this just once: If any poster wants to use the phrase "Curse of Mookie Betts" as a drive-by one liner again, I'd highly recommend for their sake that it's not on this site.
They don't deserve Breslow, and Breslow definitely didn't deserve this.
Eh, kinda maybe, but "star attraction" can be overrated, and I'm looking forward to seeing quite a few of the players we have. The Angels were loaded with "star attraction", how'd that work out? As pissed as I am at the ownership for their weaseliness, I still love baseball and look forward to seeing games being played and as stated am intrigued by several players already here.
It's a team game, and a lot of teams find ways to win without megastars, and teams with megastars shit the bed. There's plenty of other reasons to be legitimately raging right now. I mean, if they signed Montgomery and a RH bat, that's not really adding star power, it's adding a chance to win more. I think that's more important than getting a superstar to market around.
I have said for weeks that I would wait and see, and that's what I did. I also said I'd be as furious as anyone if ownership came up short, and I am. I plan on stopping in the torch and pitchfork section at home depot today. Better use of my wallet than spending it on Jersey Street.
The thing about giving trust is that if it's abused, that trust, at least for me, is gone forever. I'll always be a Red Sox fan, it's not something I can or would want to stop. This ownership, however, can go screw themselves with a garden rake. Thanks for the memories, but yeah.
Fool me once....
Fact: you are consistently not adding anything here but your frustration
Fact: Your posts don't often reach our standards here largely due to that.
Fact: those things need to change or your posts won't be seen by anyone here before long
It's fine to feel the way you do, many have and are expressing it in a reasonable way. I've said repeatedly we don't care how people feel, we care about how they present it. I was wrong and a lot of others were right. So what? None of us are happy that ownership is bending us over and having their way with us.
Any other questions PM me, but enough of your victory lap here. Enjoy your invisible trophy.
This is the money quote from last night. Their top priority does not seem to be winning anymore. We as a fan base deserve better.
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1748538086101835865?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1748538086101835865?s=20
If only somebody had responded to Tom about this with a picture from the Red Sox-Yankees series last September with all the empty seats (and tickets selling for peanuts on the resale market), a sight that at the time reportedly caused the Red Sox front office a lot of consternation, and was followed soon after by Bloom's dismissal. The contradictions in some of their statements and actions are unreal.
It’s becoming more and more apparent that Bloom’s firing was window dressing or throwing meat to the wolves.
We could have a new GM every year but it all starts at the top. It just doesn’t matter who is in charge of baseball ops—and I think we fooled ourselves into believing that it ever did.
We could have a new GM every year but it all starts at the top. It just doesn’t matter who is in charge of baseball ops—and I think we fooled ourselves into believing that it ever did.
Empty seats might be a problem as it affects concessions but I doubt the ownership cares a bit what resale prices are. It’s when the first sales drop they’ll care.
Record is "Probably" the most important thing. Kudos to all of you who saw through the bullshit. I'm raging all over again. Somebody gag and tie that idiot up and throw him in a closet.
I didn't think this level of idiocy was even possible. Ooops!!
The use of the word "probably" should trigger a clause that compels the league to force ownership to sell.
"Our record is probably the most important thing."
Well, I am over-fucking-whelmed. Get bent.
I love baseball, but I might have to take a break from this team, man.
It’s funny because a huge reason Fenway is a special place is because it’s usually banged out every night full of passionate fans cheering for the team. If the stadium is half full of fans there just to see Fenway and not cheer for the team it’s going to lose a lot of luster.
That’s about all we need to know, really.
There were many good one liners over the last couple pages of this thread, and thank god I needed every single one of them, but this one was equally funny and ironic so +1 internet point good SOSher!
This was the other coffee spitter for me this morning, nice.
It’s not exactly surprising that corporations fool themselves into the thinking that the thing they have of value to sell is what they own, not what they have to pay for…
I was met with disbelief when I said the Fenway experience has shifted over the last few years. It was just a feeling that the team is more welcoming to visitors than local repeat customers. Now it's clear that it was intentional. If you're not going to strengthen the tie between the fans and the team, you need to lean on tourists to fill the bank account.
I don't think this is true. They saw Tampa getting good pitching performances out of low paid guys and wanted someone who could replicate that, so they hired a guy from the Rays. Bloom completely failed at that part of the job, so they went with Breslow to accomplish the same thing. If you start with the fact that ownership does not believe in spending big money on free agent pitchers, then going from Bloom to Breslow makes sense.
I’d like to read no more references to either. We are genuinely better than that here, and I give mad props to the folks supporting the FO that absorbed the statement and remain supportive and engaged here representing their positions thoughtfully, in the face of some dunking.
(Doffs cap)
Nope, it's been an issue for a while now and I think @CR67dream deserves a ton of credit for his efforts to moderate this mess while trying to allow folks to emote.
Edited to add that I deleted the post that you quoted after I saw @CR67dream responded to @astrozombie as his voice is more important than mine.
This is not your blog. You are making the thread worse, even when I agree with you.
“This” or “I agree” does nothing. This isn’t a poll and nobody here wants to know every time one of us agrees or doesn’t agree with the proposition of the moment.
I get your general point, but I'd argue given the financial constraints, we need a smart, creative head of baseball ops more than ever. I think it's the only thing we can hang our hats on. Money makes it a lot easier, but it ain't everything.
Winning in spite of cheap ownership in the Major Leagues.... someone should make a movie about that....
I’m very much a “when they tell you who they are, believe them” person. They told us yesterday that winning, and using all their resources to achieve that, is no longer the top priority of this company. And that’s what they are now. And that’s what they’ve been since they traded Mookie, and in retrospect, that what was when the mission of the company began to change. I appreciate everything they’ve done. 4 championships and a complete sea change in the ballpark experience, are huge, great legacies. And I’ll hold off on complete condemnation at least until I see the opening day roster. The Red Sox are for life with me, but for the first time in 20 years, I’m not buying any tickets ahead of time from my buddy who owns season tickets. If the mood strikes me, maybe I’ll catch a game or two along the way. But no more grabbing 5-10 or more games. And if the season goes like I now suspect it will, I’ll feel no compulsion to tune into NESN every night. Hope I’m wrong about it, but I fear we’re in a long term period of change with this organization’s mission and priorities. This really isn’t a high content/value post, I know. But had to vent/get my two cents in here as well.
I try to contribute to the conversation constructively. Did my one post expressing frustration at ownership and a number of posters constantly insisting that people are wrong for not believing in ownership fall short? Yeah I'll admit that. Plenty of others are taking me to task for that as well.
Here's the thing, doing that is fine if you add a bit more to it that explains why you agree. I get the rage, I really do, but a bunch of folks are expressing it in a way that allows some venting but also adds some interesting thoughts and perspective. That's really all we ask.
I'm not a guy who's hung up on right and wrong in this type of stuff. I have no problem admitting how wrong I was about ownership's position. And it sucks. I'm apoplectic right now.
At the same time, as I've said, I separate that from the efforts of Breslow on down. It's either that, or quit, and I can't quit. Look at my sig. There is no choice. At least for me.
First off, I appreciate you engaging me at least since I'm taking some heat here.
I actually think Breslows moves thus far have been good. Getting anything for Sale was a win if nothing else. Not enough but as we now know that may be less of his decision than previously thought. Like any team, the people put in place are doing the best with what they have. The players on the As are trying to win games too and ownership there is worse than the Sox, by a lot.
Mods get frustrated too. I was a bit harsh. Thanks for responding the way you have, sincerely. It says a lot, all of it good.
I was taken aback by the quote. When he talks about the 'experience', Werner sounds like Fenway and the Sox are simply part of a larger theme park. And maybe that's where ownership's head is, but that completely ignores what being a RS fan is, somewhere between a devotee of a Hindu deity and an archivist in the Vatican Library. I've been a strong supporter of Henry, in large part because of his obsession with the game, but it sounds as if Werner's entertainment gene is driving this group's mindset right now.
It’s interesting to think about, this idea of “quitting”. I’m never going to “quit” in the sense that I’ll always keep an eye on them, and if things change, then I’ll re-engage. But I absolutely have been a fair weather fan for some time now, and that will continue into the foreseeable future. With the four titles it’s not that difficult. And honestly it’s pretty similar with the Celts, Bs, and Pats at this point. We are so lucky to have those 12 titles from 2001 to 2018. Hopefully we’ll get a couple more from the Cs or Bs. We’re also super fortunate that at least 2 of the 4 teams have been very good or better for a while now. We always have a great team to watch. Right now it’s not the Sox, so I won’t bother. I hope, like all of us, that it changes sometime in the next few years. But that’s all it is at this point - hope. I do not have much confidence.
View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1748729620889829846?s=46
Boy are they putting a lot of pressure on Breslow. Between this and the comments from Werner on “assurances from Craig we will be competitive” this all seems like complete bullshit.
Now when Cora leaves it’s going to be Breslow fault?
This is just really horrible leadership.
Boy are they putting a lot of pressure on Breslow. Between this and the comments from Werner on “assurances from Craig we will be competitive” this all seems like complete bullshit.
Now when Cora leaves it’s going to be Breslow fault?
This is just really horrible leadership.
What distinguishes the Cs and the NEP is that, for all of their faults, the Krafts and Grousbeck/Pagliuca are real fans themselves. It's never been clear to me that Werner really was. and as Henry ages, I begin to wonder whether he now regards the RS as an investment. It is, but it's a hell of a lot more than that.
The DD era in hindsight feels like them throwing everything into one last ring because they knew they were downshifting shortly thereafter.
The worst part in all of this for me is that wanting to reset things over the course of the past few seasons not only made sense, but it was 100% doable. Like a lot of people I bought in and if the intent was pure, the mission would be nearing completion. Yet here we are. My wife and I would typically attend 3-6 games per season. Covid and a couple of surgeries have curbed that the past couple of seasons. Last year we attended our first Woo Sox game and loved the experience so I feel it's likely that we'll be following the lead of ownership and not spend up to our full capabilities.
To me, the subtext here seems like he's addressing the theory that Cora has been secretly pulling the strings. That was widely theorized during the CBO search, and seems like (from McCaffrey's reporting in the Athletic) that other folks around the league may have wondered that too. What it sounds like Kennedy is saying is that that's not the case.