Manchester United 13/14: Mid-table or Bust
- Thread starter Zomp
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No. I know British papers basically pull rumors out of their ass every day during the transfer window to be a talking point for the day. I just don't think it’s totally inconceivable that Tottenham are wary about selling Bale to Real Madrid, given their inability to pay fees up front. They are still being paid for the Luka Modric transfer.
Bale has long been linked to United, given Ferguson's stated regret on missing out on him when he was at Southhampton, and as the heir apparent to Giggs as Left sided Welsh midfielder.
I wouldn't say its likely that Bale ends up at United but I don't rule anything out until I see a player holding up the jersey for another team. This year has shown us this. See Willian.
Bale has long been linked to United, given Ferguson's stated regret on missing out on him when he was at Southhampton, and as the heir apparent to Giggs as Left sided Welsh midfielder.
I wouldn't say its likely that Bale ends up at United but I don't rule anything out until I see a player holding up the jersey for another team. This year has shown us this. See Willian.
I never have gotten the love for Danny Welbeck, and with today's match, I'm pretty sure that an RvP/Rooney-less Man U would struggle to score regularly.
The weakest part of Welbeck's game is his finishing. I know it sounds silly because he plays up front, but he can still be a very effective player. Think Heskey with speed. He's young enough to where he can still develop, but sometimes I wonder if its better to play him out on the wing.
But yes, if we lost our 2 best strikers we would have trouble scoring. Good observation, Owen Glendenning.
On one hand maybe we'll buy some reinforcements tomorrow...on the other, maybe we'll panic buy shitty players. Maybe we actually are in for Ozil since it seems like Shinji Kagawa killed Moyes' puppy. Carrick was unusually sloppy today as well.
Same amount of points as last season through 3 games, when the schedule wasn't nearly as tough, but the overreactions I've seen through the media is expected.
But yes, if we lost our 2 best strikers we would have trouble scoring. Good observation, Owen Glendenning.
On one hand maybe we'll buy some reinforcements tomorrow...on the other, maybe we'll panic buy shitty players. Maybe we actually are in for Ozil since it seems like Shinji Kagawa killed Moyes' puppy. Carrick was unusually sloppy today as well.
Same amount of points as last season through 3 games, when the schedule wasn't nearly as tough, but the overreactions I've seen through the media is expected.
Yeah, but, last season you still had a living legend as manager. Bit of a difference, no?Zomp said:
Well of course, this is a new frontier for everyone. But if we're going to panic after 3 games, 2 of which are against top 6 sides, I think its a little crazy.
I just never understood how he got buried on the bench behind welbeck who couldn't score to say his life last season. That's nice that he's young and English, but a striker who can't score is pretty useless for a top club
You might poo-poo it, but Danny Welbeck is played as a striker to where he's displacing other finishing options like Hernandez. I don't think it's irrelevant to point out that he can't lead the line when he's likely to be called on to do so.Zomp said:
Incidentally, your jibe is dead on in one respect: Barry Glendenning and I were born on the exact same day.
Welbeck can play anywhere across the top line so he more flexible than Hernandez, who is a pure striker always on the last defender. Danny also works very hard tracking back. With Moyes seeming playing a a variation of a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1, I'm not sure how many starts Hernandez is going to get though I thought he was very positive when he came in against Liverpool.
So from the BBC transfer ticker.
13:06
"All the signs are that Manchester United's pursuit of Marouane Fellaini is moving towards a successful conclusion before the window closes - which will leave Everton manager Roberto Martinez with money to spend. The Dutch media reports that Feyenoord's highly-rated defender Bruno Martins Indi is waiting to fly in to England to complete a move to Goodison Park once the Fellaini deal is done."
Does this mean Man U have given up on Baines? Seems to me Everton should be cashing in on Baines now whilst he still has two years on the contract. he's no spring chicken either.
13:06
"All the signs are that Manchester United's pursuit of Marouane Fellaini is moving towards a successful conclusion before the window closes - which will leave Everton manager Roberto Martinez with money to spend. The Dutch media reports that Feyenoord's highly-rated defender Bruno Martins Indi is waiting to fly in to England to complete a move to Goodison Park once the Fellaini deal is done."
Does this mean Man U have given up on Baines? Seems to me Everton should be cashing in on Baines now whilst he still has two years on the contract. he's no spring chicken either.
10.08pm BST
Very odd reports about Ander Herrera
Guillem Balague says the men purportedly from United at the Spanish league offices were not in fact United officials.
You really can't make this up.
Very odd reports about Ander Herrera
Guillem Balague says the men purportedly from United at the Spanish league offices were not in fact United officials.
You really can't make this up.
Fellaini apparently handed in a request, Telegraph reports he's gone to MUFC for £26-28m - also, there's a rumor going around that Coentrão has signed a one year loan deal at United.
Baines must be thrilled.
Baines must be thrilled.
It's a relief that it looks like United managed to get Fellaini. It looked for awhile there that United might not sign anybody. Still, a terrible transfer window. Fellaini becomes United's marquee signing for 27.5 million pounds, only they could have gotten him for 23.5 million pounds if they just paid his release clause before it expired.
According to reports on the Guardian's live blog, they were impostors hoping to act as middlemen and shave off a piece of the fee. Peel back the curtain just a little and global soccer is just as corrupt as boxing.Zomp said:
Edit: the lead Guardian football article this morning suggests they weren't impostors, just people with a different agenda:
It's hard to imagine who'd have told the media that these lawyers were impostors besides Manchester United. I don't think the lack of incoming players is nearly the disaster some have made it out to be (didn't this squad just win the league, after all?), but the management of the narrative this summer was terrible. The leaks about big-money transfers got people excited, but without closing a deal, made United look cynical and ineffective. There's nowhere to train for this type of work besides managing one of a handful of the world's most scrutinized clubs, so Moyes & Co deserve a pass while they try to figure it out, but it's certainly jarring to see a club with such outstanding media management over the past 20 years flailing around like this.
DLew On Roids said:
Sorry didn't see your edit until now.
I agree 100% with you and think United have looked silly and terrible over this transfer window. Now there are leaks, though who knows how true, that United bid for Khedira and Sneijder...and TURNED DOWN Ozil. I don't understand it.
I think Moyes will get a pass on this and I don't think many fans hold him responsible. Ed Woodward, on the other hand, is being heavily scrutinized and rightly so. From leaving the tour early for "urgent transfer business" to the public pursuits of Thiago and Cesc that failed, United have been made to look foolish. Then throw in a failed bid for a player from another league and country (where you opened negotiations with one day left in the transfer period), a failed loan move for Contrao, and the rumors of turning down one of the best 15 or so players in the world...ouch.
I rate Fellaini very highly and think he'll be a great partner to Carrick in the middle of the field (even if he's a walking orange card), and who knows if they would have signed Ozil or someone else if they sold Rooney, but it just seems as if they handled everything in a rushed manner and when you do that in such a public way it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Depth is always good but it will be interesting to see how Moyes rotates players and keeps everybody happy. If we assume that Carrick and RVP will be mainstays in important matches, then they have 12 guys (Rooney, Welbeck, Zaha, Hernandez, Giggs, Young, Valencia, Nani, Anderson, Kagawa, Cleverley, Fellaini) for four other midfield and attacking spots. If guys like Rooney and Fellaini enter a run of good form and become nearly impossible to drop, that's a really tight situation for the rest of the squad. I'm not sure the occasional start against Hull City and some run in the League Cup are going to keep guys like Kagawa and Hernandez, who could be mainstays for many other very good clubs, satisfied.
Edit: To clarify, this is ultimately a good problem to have.
Edit: To clarify, this is ultimately a good problem to have.
Vinho Tinto said:
Supposedly he was on the market for 8.5 million pounds in the summer and nobody bit. I say supposedly because even though he is frustratingly inconsistent, that price seems awful low with a player of his ceiling.
Zomp said:
A player who hasn't shown an inclination towards hitting that ceiling- He's barely been able to crack United's top 11 recently. At 26 he should be at his peak or he's likely not going to get there. This feels like Moyes is giving him 5 years just to show faith in him, which seems silly.
I think he's an incredibly skilled massively flawed player. I also hate his face, so maybe I'm not the most impartial judge.
I have trouble believing a club such as Spurs did not grab Nani for 8.5 million pounds. Proven EPL winger and still relatively young at 26. IMO much better value than Chadli and arguably even Lamela for that price.
Chadli was signed cheaper, is what 3 years younger, and doesn't have the effort issues that Nani does. Plus the wages.
I can definitely see why a bid wasn't made. Especially since no one accepted it.
Chadli was signed cheaper, is what 3 years younger, and doesn't have the effort issues that Nani does. Plus the wages.
I can definitely see why a bid wasn't made. Especially since no one accepted it.
Nani was reportedly on 90k/week on his old contract. That would explain why no one bit. He wouldn't have made sense for Spurs anyway but at lower wages some mid-table side (Newcastle, Sunderland, Fulham, someone like that) would surely have taken a chance on him for that fee.
Shamelessly reposting this from mcfc forum because it cracked me up. Yesterday was obviously a bad day for United, and Fellaini was only effective once City had switched off and he was pushed forward, into what is probably his natural position in spite of his size. Smalling was picked on at RB, but Rafael will return. Have to think your lot are getting pretty concerned about Ferdinand, he's not looking his best.
Not concerned about Rio at all. Sunday's game as his worst in years but he's been one of our steadier players the past 2 years.
I still think Fellaini can play in the middle with Carrick. One game won't change that. City were unstoppable on Sunday but United also picked a bad time to shit the bed.
I still think Fellaini can play in the middle with Carrick. One game won't change that. City were unstoppable on Sunday but United also picked a bad time to shit the bed.
I hope that's a joke.
If not didn't the ferguson era teach you anything? He was almost canned after a slow start only stopped by a fairly lucky FA cup run and win.
The single biggest reason for united being where there are is continuity.
There is always going to be some bumps in the hand over road, he doesn't know the players the way he needs to, the players need to learn his style. You want become Chelsea?
If not didn't the ferguson era teach you anything? He was almost canned after a slow start only stopped by a fairly lucky FA cup run and win.
The single biggest reason for united being where there are is continuity.
There is always going to be some bumps in the hand over road, he doesn't know the players the way he needs to, the players need to learn his style. You want become Chelsea?
I don't think anyone would be upset if we finished 3rd or 4th. Its a tough season, with Mourinho back at Chelsea, Tottenham reloading, City getting world class reinforcements, and Arsenal getting one of the world's best. There was always going to be a learning curve for Moyes. Yes, he's been in the Premier League for a long time but managing a top 4 side carries a bit of a different skill set than being content with with a top half finish. You need to give him at least 3 years to get his system in place and see what he can do.
Having said that the possibility of finishing outside of the top 4 looks greater than 30%, which I wouldn't have believed at the beginning of the season.
Having said that the possibility of finishing outside of the top 4 looks greater than 30%, which I wouldn't have believed at the beginning of the season.
LondonSox said:
I don't think Moyes should be on the hot seat by any means, but I don't understand the comparison between Ferguson's start at Man Utd and Moyes' start - the Ferguson Era shouldn't teach us anything in this regard. The Premier League didn't yet exist in the late 1980s, and money hadn't yet stratified the league and pushed clubs like Man Utd into such a dominant competitive position - Fergie was given four seasons to win something because that's how long a club of Man Utd's stature might reasonably expect to have to wait to win something. Nowadays, Man Utd should reasonably expect to win something at least every other season (if not more frequently), and finishing outside of the top four would be disastrous. Moyes needs to right the ship and start winning matches comfortably before, say, Christmas, or his job could very well be under threat by the end of the season; continuity is overrated if things aren't going as they should.
Not only that, but Ferguson took over a team that hadn't won the league in 20 years and had an ingrained drinking culture. It makes sense that it took him some time to turn things around. Moyes took over the defending champions.ConigliarosPotential said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24330670
I'm increasingly loathe to give Alan Hansen any credence as a pundit, but "there are clear similarities between the United of 2013 and the last Liverpool team to win the title back in 1990" is a pretty interesting comparison to ponder.
I'm increasingly loathe to give Alan Hansen any credence as a pundit, but "there are clear similarities between the United of 2013 and the last Liverpool team to win the title back in 1990" is a pretty interesting comparison to ponder.
I'm not, having a laugh after the Brom loss. Never thought I'd see United go down to WBA.sachmoney said:
Nor am I. I just wanted to point out the the post to which I was responding was dripping with a MFY-Fan-esque sense of entitlement. If anything, I believe that Pelligrini is far more deserving of being on the hot seat after the Villa match. The goal that put Villa ahead was shameful, as it seemed to come more from poor preparation than anything else. If they keep up this sort of form in the league, Pelligirini will deserve to lose his job before Moyes.
Nor am I. I just wanted to point out the the post to which I was responding was dripping with a MFY-Fan-esque sense of entitlement. If anything, I believe that Pelligrini is far more deserving of being on the hot seat after the Villa match. The goal that put Villa ahead was shameful, as it seemed to come more from poor preparation than anything else. If they keep up this sort of form in the league, Pelligirini will deserve to lose his job before Moyes.
Well, yeah. The two organizations are in very different places. MUFC is transitioning from a manager that had run the club for a quarter century, developing a brand in the transfer market that oozed "champion." MCFC, on the other hand, is a suddenly rich club with ungodly expectations of silverware, a transfer budget larger than most countries' GDP, and no desire to wait it out a couple of seasons.
Now, if MUFC are suddenly in the bottom half of the table in February, bombed out of Europe and England tournaments, and experiencing transfer window drama, then you might see some sweat on Moyes' brow. But let's face reality; that's beyond unlikely.
Well, yeah. The two organizations are in very different places. MUFC is transitioning from a manager that had run the club for a quarter century, developing a brand in the transfer market that oozed "champion." MCFC, on the other hand, is a suddenly rich club with ungodly expectations of silverware, a transfer budget larger than most countries' GDP, and no desire to wait it out a couple of seasons.
Now, if MUFC are suddenly in the bottom half of the table in February, bombed out of Europe and England tournaments, and experiencing transfer window drama, then you might see some sweat on Moyes' brow. But let's face reality; that's beyond unlikely.
The bigger concern is about the lack of goals in open play in the league. Exactly 0 since the Swansea game. Have to hope it's just a confidence/chemistry thing and Moyes figuring out what is his best 11 (permanently nailing Young and Anderson to the bench would be a good start).
f United can bang in a couple of games tonight in Ukraine like they did vs Leverkuson, maybe that will finally get United going offensively in the league. Will also help that they are entering what should be a very easy next four fixtures.
f United can bang in a couple of games tonight in Ukraine like they did vs Leverkuson, maybe that will finally get United going offensively in the league. Will also help that they are entering what should be a very easy next four fixtures.
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