As bowiac has noted, this is simply not true with regard to Tatum. We now have more NBA-level data on Tatum than we do for his entire college career, and all of the data is positive to a crazy degree.As an innocent bystander that doesn't have a rooting interest in Philly or Boston I think a lot of posters came down way too hard on Londonsox. He's very knowledgeable about basketball and while he loves his team he never really said anything wholly unreasonable (Covington over Tatum today may not be the popular opinion, but it is defensible). Everything's coming up Millhouse right know for the Celtics and that's made everyone a little overzealous in praising Kryie and Tatum. They deserve credit for how good they've been but I can see how that would be grating to an outsider, though, especially given how much everyone seemed to hate the Kyrie deal when it happened and the Tatum/Fultz sample size right now is barely existent.
Yeah, but the issue was that he didn't think the opposite POV was.(Covington over Tatum today may not be the popular opinion, but it is defensible). .
Agreed regarding Fultz. However, Tatum's performance so far makes it very likely that, barring injury, the trade is a slam dunk win for the Celtics because of the extra lottery pick acquired. It's comparable to the return the Bulls got for Jimmy Butler, but also comes with Jayson Tatum attached. Not sure how that's anything but a 360 windmill.The Tatum/Fultz sample size is non-existent in the sense that we no data so far on Fultz. That's not to say people can't have new expectations for Tatum based on his play so far, but we only have a few months of weird, injury-plagued performance and some wild speculation on mental problems for Fultz. It's an overreaction to say that we know today that it was a slam dunk win for the Celtics and a tire fire for the Sixers. There is still a lot of time for Fultz to become the player people expected.
He is knowledgable, but he is one of the biggest homers on this board. I don't mind homerism, but he's insufferable in accusing everyone else here of being homers and not rational like he is. If he'd just stop doing that, I guarantee you that no one would care.As an innocent bystander that doesn't have a rooting interest in Philly or Boston I think a lot of posters came down way too hard on Londonsox. He's very knowledgeable about basketball and while he loves his team he never really said anything wholly unreasonable
It is, but that's not his claim. He went a lot further than that, and has essentially said that Covington's looooong track record of streaky shooting isn't the reality, that his shooting streak this year is the new normal and that Covington will likely remain better due to continued development. Despite the eight year age difference.Covington over Tatum today may not be the popular opinion, but it is defensible.
I agree that many people hated it, but a lot of us really liked it. It's why that thread went on for 3,782 pages. If everyone hated it the bitching and moaning would have died out quickly.They deserve credit for how good they've been but I can see how that would be grating to an outsider, though, especially given how much everyone seemed to hate the Kyrie deal when it happened and the Tatum/Fultz sample size right now is barely existent.
I don't have a dog in this fight but just for the record, the bolded above is not what London said. He was very clear that he thought Covington was better than Tatum now. He also said that "He [Tatum] may be better one day [than Covington] he [Tatum] isn't now."It is, but that's not his claim. He went a lot further than that, and has essentially said that Covington's looooong track record of streaky shooting isn't the reality, that his shooting streak this year is the new normal and that Covington will likely remain better due to continued development. Despite the eight year age difference.
Maybe I'm reading the following comments wrong, but I don't think so.I don't have a dog in this fight but just for the record, the bolded above is not what London said. He was very clear that he thought Covington was better than Tatum now. He also said that "He [Tatum] may be better one day [than Covington] he [Tatum] isn't now."
Part of the issue is that this is a message board and people don't spend an hour writing or reading a three sentence post so things get misspoken/misinterpreted. That more than anything else is what I wish more posters would understand.
He's not now, and will be is a moronic comment.
Those statements go a lot further than your charitable reading of his words. But, see, I'm not even complaining about this. I understand that some people are homers. Homers of various teams have civil conversations here all the time because we understand the bias.Nothing is certain, esp as Covington has improved significantly every year.
Covington is 10th in real plus minus in the entire league (down from top 5) and 14th in defensive real plus minus.
But please continue your bullshit. ...
I get you like your own players, it's not impossible to understand reality despite liking your own players.
It is, but that's not his claim. He went a lot further than that, and has essentially said that Covington's looooong track record of streaky shooting isn't the reality, that his shooting streak this year is the new normal and that Covington will likely remain better due to continued development. Despite the eight year age difference.
.
You aren't annoying because you aren't playing the "my opinion is not biased and yours is" card. Almost all of his animosity is centered around Jayson Tatum too, which makes it look like sour grapes.Ugh, now I feel bad about my Brady v Wentz comment. I hope London wasn’t / isn’t too big of an Iggles fan.
As a mostly neutral observer, I really enjoyed his contributions, even when he as annoyingly Sixers-biased as I am annoyingly Warriors-biased.
Hope to see you back soon, London!!
Read the second post. He went further than that.That wasn't his argument. He thinks Covington is better right now. You are right that he does keep pointing out Tatum's unsustainable shooting while ignoring Covington's, although Covington has already started to regress to the norm. This year, he is currently at .447/.429/.807. Prior to this year, Covington was a career .393/.354/.812 shooter. Over his last 10 games: .383/.342/.800.
I agree there are rational arguments to be made, I don't think they're very good because they rely on a black box efficiency number that fail the eye test. But you can make the argument. Which he wasn't, he was just declaring that anyone that thought Tatum was better now or would be in the future was a moron.I don't get how anyone could get all that upset over someone suggesting Tatum is better. Covington is the epitome of a 3 and D guy, and up until this year, was slightly below average from 3. Covington is having a career year and it's comparable to what Tatum is doing in his rookie season as a 19 year old. It's not like people are suggesting Tatum is better than Ben Simmons. It's Robert F'n Covington.
Case in point. The numbers people relied on the black box efficiency numbers to make the case that Boston's 3&D small forward was a better player than Paul George when anyone that watched in addition to looking at the numbers could see that George did a whole lot more on the floor.This site does have homers though. Last year, many people were arguing Paul George wouldn't be that much of an upgrade over Jae Crowder and one poster saying Crowder was better. As someone who has never been a big Jae Crowder guy, I never understood some of the love he got. Sometimes I think people are slaves to advanced metrics. DeRozan doesn't suck.
I wouldn't say everyone as there was a small group of us who flat out LOVED the deal at time. As for Covington, he has turned into a really nice player despite learning how to play the NBA under probably the worst possible circumstance without any teammates to learn how to play the game. He's a good role player right now and sure you can go back and forth on which player would be preferred for this year but I feel it's laughable to suggest that what Tatum is doing at 19 without his body fully developed wouldn't have him several levels above Covington within the next few years.They deserve credit for how good they've been but I can see how that would be grating to an outsider, though, especially given how much everyone seemed to hate the Kyrie deal when it happened and the Tatum/Fultz sample size right now is barely existent.
As was said above I would not characterize Tatum/Fultz as a barely existent sample size as Tatum's floor has risen dramatically since the draft along with the Lakers/King pick still appearing juicy. There are few 19 year olds in the history of the league who have produced on the floor, understood the game, fit in with veterans and a winning team, while still having the upside of his physical skills to grow into. Even if Fultz becomes the player some people expected you'd have a hard time winning this trade from a Philly perspective when you factor in the entire return now that we have the newest Tatum information.The Tatum/Fultz sample size is non-existent in the sense that we no data so far on Fultz. That's not to say people can't have new expectations for Tatum based on his play so far, but we only have a few months of weird, injury-plagued performance and some wild speculation on mental problems for Fultz. It's an overreaction to say that we know today that it was a slam dunk win for the Celtics and a tire fire for the Sixers. There is still a lot of time for Fultz to become the player people expected.
I'm a big Eagles fan, and can confirm that yesterday afternoon was not a super fun time.Ugh, now I feel bad about my Brady v Wentz comment. I hope London wasn’t / isn’t too big of an Iggles fan.
As a mostly neutral observer, I really enjoyed his contributions, even when he as annoyingly Sixers-biased as I am annoyingly Warriors-biased.
Hope to see you back soon, London!!
Prior to that, he hadn't. He still had some agenda towards Tatum though, and has since the trade. He's also upset that people change their opinions "quickly" but a lot can happen over the off season and the first 25-30 games of the year, especially for players under 24/25. Should I not change my opinion on guys like Giannis, Kristaps, or Aaron Gordon? How many games or how many 3s does Aaron Gordon have to make/attempt before I can safely say he's much improved? He isn't going to shoot 40% from 3, but I think it's also fair to assume he's not going to revert back to a sub .300 shooter either.Read the second post. He went further than that.
Due to a pm I'm going to make a last post.
If you can't see why attacking someone for saying his mental health issues are forcing him to leave the board is EXACTLY why this board is becoming toxic.
The fact someone attacks a poster after this is a totally classless.
I hope none of you suffer from mental health issues to understand how miserable it is and how being attacked when you are down and struggling feels.
Bosox screw you huh. You utter douchebag.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/sixers-markelle-fultz-injury-update-practice-return-20171227.html?mobi=true“Slowly we will start integrating him into this,” Brown said of Fultz’s workouts. “But the answer everybody probably wants to hear is when [will he play]. I just don’t know that.”
Fultz, the first-overall pick in June’s NBA draft, hasn’t done much since being cleared to participate in team activities on Dec. 9. At that time, the belief was that Fultz would start participating in team drills. However, he participated only in solo drills under the supervision of a player-development coach.
The Sixers won’t throw Fultz in five-on-five scrimmages, at least not initially. He might compete in some 2-on-2 or 3-on-3 drills.
Good news is he’ll still have 4 years of eligibility after this redshirt year.He was cleared to participate in team activities on 12/9, but hasn't yet, almost 3 weeks later?
maybe, but he plays his ass off out there.No way I'd have Soranus at 6. His shot is clearly broken.
Did you read any of the posts immediately above yours on this page? The new news is that he's now ready to start participating in drills with the team. Because even though he wasn't hurt before, he was not not hurt enough to play with his teammates, or something.Soooo, it's been 3 weeks since the report saying that Fultz was no longer hurt and would be back in 3 weeks (which leaves me to wonder why a perfectly healthy player needs to sit out for 3 weeks but nevermind that), so where is the guy? There's been no reports about his "progression", no reports about an imminent return or anything. Has this guy just completely dropped off the face of the earth?
Could you post a summary or snippets? I have apparently already received my allotment of Philadelphia news.
Nothing new, but just the local guys starting to wonder what's up.Could you post a summary or snippets? I have apparently already received my allotment of Philadelphia news.
The first-overall pick in June’s NBA draft needs to be out there with his 76ers teammates. The combo guard needs to get the ball, dribble, step back and attempt three-pointers. Fultz needs to drive to the basket and elevate his right shoulder while drawing contact. He needs to attempt foul shots on the road in front of 18,000 hostile fans.
Right now, he’s far from doing those things on the floor.
Coach Brett Brown said on Nov. 30 that Fultz wouldn’t play until his shot passes the eye test. And it doesn’t appear that the coach is ready to change his stance.
But they have to play him at some point. They might as well make it this season. The Sixers have to find out what they have in him.
He’s been cleared to resume basketball activities three weeks ago. There’s really no benefit or medical reason for sitting him an entire season.
He’s been cleared to resume basketball activities three weeks ago. There’s really no benefit or medical reason for sitting him an entire season.Could you post a summary or snippets? I have apparently already received my allotment of Philadelphia news.
It's hardly a hot take. It's the most likely explanation. He was deemed healthy enough to play several games to start the season; members of his organization said he tinkered with his shot without their guidance; he's been out for months now, and the team has said there's nothing wrong with his shoulder, yet he's not practicing with the team, and so there is no video of him shooting. Now we learn that he's been working *in private* with shooting coach Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. His own coach has on multiple occasions said his "confidence" needs to be there before he plays, and that he has to be there "mentally." If it's a hot take, it started with Brett Brown.The "mental issues" thing seems to be a bit of a hot take.
In passing, I would like to mention that Philadelphia is the fourth largest media market in the US, Certainly bigger then either of the Bay Areas. Perhaps the media there is less obnoxious.Finally, I agree that were Fultz in a larger market, the scrutiny around his absence would likely be much greater. The fact that it isn't (yet) is a good thing imho but then again, I don't like to see busts, even if it turns out that Ainge was right about Fultz (and Tatum).