Mayo is the New Coach

[bankshot1]

Being the guy after the legend is a hard place to start. The 2nd guessing will be incessant. Phil Bengsten says hi.

Imo Mayo needs to be on the same page/feel philosophically compatible with the GM and the OC. In this regard I hope he has an influential voice in the OC choice and some though lesser influence on the GM. Imo2 as this is a vacuum and I've no clue about Mayos views of gridiron warfare, or how he sees building a team or prioritizng needs, all I can do is wish him well and hope the Krafts choose wisely in this process.

 

[bankshot1]

Don’t Hold the Mayo
Cinco de Mayo
Hey Oh, the New Coach is Mayo

Just spitballing here.

Pats have to ketchup to cut the NFL mustard. One can only hope that in the process of ketchup adding Mayo is not Russian into the decision.

 

[cshea]

The idea that BB doesn't believe in analytics isn't really true. Ernie Adams was very much an analytics guy, and he put that stuff in front of BB all the time.

https://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams&redirected=true







And Ernie had a hand in one of SoSH's favorites, Friday Night Lights:





Losing Ernie, BB's best friend, I think is the most underrated loss in the organization over the last 4-5 years.

4th and 2 basically triggered a national crisis but was essentially the first example of a game decision being made based off win probability.

I don't think they have a traditional analytics departement but it's essentially what Ernie was doing under the "head of football research" title. And Ernie was doing it well before teams started building dedicated analytics staffs. And Bill obviiously valued Ernie's input given he had a direct line to him on gameday and would run decisions by him. I always remember the mic'd up clip at the end of SB 53 where Bill and Brady are discussing FG or go for it on the last 4th down. Bill steps away, speaks into the headset to ask someone, presumably Ernie, "you good with kicking?" Then comes back a second later and tells everyone to they're kicking.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Won’t this kind of eliminate a lot of potentially good GM candidates because they are stuck with a head coach, like with the Red Sox GM search?

Unless they promote from within. If Kraft is to be believed, there weren't enough voices in the room with BB, so the talent might already be there and Kraft just needs to beef up operations.

I'm doubtful, but maybe that's how he sees it.

 

[joe dokes]

Pats have to ketchup to cut the NFL mustard. One can only hope that in the process of ketchup adding Mayo is not Russian into the decision.

Advice to the new Coach: Give 'em Hell, man.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Won’t this kind of eliminate a lot of potentially good GM candidates because they are stuck with a head coach, like with the Red Sox GM search?

Probably not. NFL chains of command are a bit weird, a lot of teams hire the coach then see which GMs fit. I also think for the Patriots it will help that a lot of the candidates have worked here before, so they know what Kraft is looking for and have some insight into Mayo potentially as well.

 

[bankshot1]

Advice to the new Coach: Give 'em Hell, man.

Lettuce begin. Though Mayo may need a Miracle to whip this team into shape.

 

[Justthetippett]

4th and 2 basically triggered a national crisis but was essentially the first example of a game decision being made based off win probability.

I don't think they have a traditional analytics departement but it's essentially what Ernie was doing under the "head of football research" title. And Ernie was doing it well before teams started building dedicated analytics staffs. And Bill obviiously valued Ernie's input given he had a direct line to him on gameday and would run decisions by him. I always remember the mic'd up clip at the end of SB 53 where Bill and Brady are discussing FG or go for it on the last 4th down. Bill steps away, speaks into the headset to ask someone, presumably Ernie, "you good with kicking?" Then comes back a second later and tells everyone to they're kicking.

Football is not Amazon logistics. I think this idea that a team needs a whole department devoted to "analytics" is a little over the top. A small team producing information for football ops and personnel is probably sufficient. Ernie was unique, and his background with BB was too. That's very hard to replicate. But they can find something that works without turning the place into Fort Meade.

 

[Hoya81]

Being the guy after the legend is a hard place to start. The 2nd guessing will be incessant. Phil Bengsten says hi.

Imo Mayo needs to be on the same page/feel philosophically compatible with the GM and the OC. In this regard I hope he has an influential voice in the OC choice and some though lesser influence on the GM. Imo2 as this is a vacuum and I've no clue about Mayos views of gridiron warfare, or how he sees building a team or prioritizng needs, all I can do is wish him well and hope the Krafts choose wisely in this process.

Lombardi recognizing that the Packers were trending down after SB II and setting up his eventual move to Washington was one of his savvier moves.

 

[Justthetippett]

Probably not. NFL chains of command are a bit weird, a lot of teams hire the coach then see which GMs fit. I also think for the Patriots it will help that a lot of the candidates have worked here before, so they know what Kraft is looking for and have some insight into Mayo potentially as well.

I think the GM candidates will also see it as a positive that Mayo is relatively inexperienced. They'll be able to play a big role, and the risks of a power struggle are lower because Mayo is still developing, they can grow together, etc. I also agree on the prior experience point. I'd be shocked if the GM they select didn't have previous ties to the team.

 

[jcd0805]

Kyle has pretty clearly proven himself to be a good coach on his own. Steve B. should want to do the same, and if he's truly a good coach he'll show it out from under his Dad's shadow. Technically he could do that by staying in NE under Mayo but I think both he and Mayo would be better off with a clean break from the Belichick name in New England. Just my opinion obviously.

Agree completely with this. I don’t think it benefits either for Steve to stay in NE. Or Brian for that matter.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Now that Mayo is in place, I'm more concerned about who they bring in to coach the offensive line than OC. They already have a good OC. I don't think they make a big splash in the front office

 

[DJnVa]

I can't see it either and definitely wouldn't want him, but what does BB have to do with him coming here? Unless I'm missing something.

One of the things that I've read in various places is that the Pats want to keep a good relationship with BB. Folks may disagree with that, but it's apparently a bit of a thing. If you buy into that, I doubt the first significant move Mayo makes is bringing in a dude that BB doesn't like.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, just saying it appears it could be a thing.

 

[NomarsFool]

I think one big positive is that the day he is officially announced, >90% of the people in the organization already know him, like him, and will be rooting for him to succeed. That's not a small thing.

The most important key next step is to get him the help he needs from outside the current organization to be successful. Obviously, Mayo was already here - so changing BB to Mayo isn't going to produce some significant change in philosophy or really much else, I think, given the current assets the team has (both in terms of players and staff).

 

[ZMart100]

Don’t Hold the Mayo
Cinco de Mayo
Hey Oh, the New Coach is Mayo

Just spitballing here.

A Coach and a Gentleman

 

[Curt S Loew]

One of the things that I've read in various places is that the Pats want to keep a good relationship with BB. Folks may disagree with that, but it's apparently a bit of a thing. If you buy into that, I doubt the first significant move Mayo makes is bringing in a dude that BB doesn't like.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, just saying it appears it could be a thing.

Ah, I was wondering how BB fit in with your post. Got it.

 

[cornwalls@6]

A Coach and a Gentleman

If he doesn’t work out, will Kraft ask for his DOR?

 

[sezwho]

Lettuce begin. Though Mayo may need a Miracle to whip this team into shape.

And you know Mayo has the onions

 

[johnmd20]

If he doesn’t work out, will Kraft ask for his DOR?

He's got nowhere else to gooooo.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Apparently Bourne wants to follow BB:

https://nesn.com/2024/01/patriots-wideout-willing-to-follow-bill-belichick-to-next-landing-spot/

NAWWWWWWWWW BRUH YALL CANT FIRE MY COACH! lol,” Bourne began his Instagram post. “(Psych) naw, thank you coach for all you taught me! To be able to play for you taught me a lot about being a MAN! GREATEST EVER! And doing everything the right way! Wherever you go give me a call I’m pulling up lol LOVE YOU MAN!

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Apparently Bourne wants to follow BB:

https://nesn.com/2024/01/patriots-wideout-willing-to-follow-bill-belichick-to-next-landing-spot/

I mean, this was before the Mayo news, so I'm not sure it says anything other than "Bourne loves BB"

 

[cshea]

Official, press conference is Wednesday.

View: https://twitter.com/Patriots/status/1745860837561061461?s=20

 

[CR67dream]

One of my old managers used to say that if employees are overly excited about a new boss, it’s probably because they know they will be easy to work for. I’m not suggesting Mayo will be a pushover, but the players ’t want a new guy coming in telling them what to do. Especially post-Belichick.

Fair point. The Sox gave Grady a standing O when he walked into the clubhouse. It did work for a while, but then.... nope to soon.

More seriously, there's always that risk, but I think it's better that they stayed with an obviously well thought out succession plan instead of panicking.

In general I also think that some people are making too much of not changing the culture. I think it's already changing for some players, and I think Mayo is smart enough to keep the things that are still relevant and also ditch those that aren't. I think he can do that and easily earn the approval of the current crop of players in the NFL. As @Smiling Joe Hesketh said, he's the youngest coach in the league now. Much more in tune with the times.

 

[Bowhemian]

Don’t Hold the Mayo
Cinco de Mayo
Hey Oh, the New Coach is Mayo

Just spitballing here.

Not everyone likes Mayo

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

This is not really worthy of the main board, but I'm going to say it anyway because someone smart (CR67 maybe?) talked in another thread about the extent to which being a fan is a personal thing, so here's a fan-boy take.

I don't have any idea what makes a good coach. But one of things that I like -- all other things being equal -- is a certain demeanor on the sidelines. There are some guys who project an aura that they are making stuff happen, while others often give off the vibe that shit is happening to them. Belichick was the prototype of the first category and I have gotten used to it over 24 years. Then on the complete other end there's guys like the Norv Turners and Mike McCarthys of the world -- guys who look as though shit is happening and they are catching up. I admit that this is the dumbest shit to care about -- those guys may be the best coaches in the world but as a fan I prefer the first category even if it's just an illusion.

If nothing else, Mayo looks like a guy who is making shit happen and not having it happen to him. So, without the ability to judge this on any other basis other than reading the comments here from others, at least on day 1 that's a check mark in his favor.

 

[tims4wins]

Personally I hope they purge the staff of all of Bill's crony and nepotism hires, it is the thing I liked about BB the least and IMO at least partially led to his downfall. I know it is the NFL and some of that is par for the course, but Steve really needs to go elsewhere and prove he's actually a good coach and not just the son of a good coach.

I think Steve succeeding in NE would prove it. But YMMV. I hope he stays. He and Mayo are said to be good friends.

The only exception to this in my mind would be Vrabel as GM. He wanted the role in TN, so he's got the ambition for an executive position. He didn't 'dispel' the rumors (shock! horror!) about wanting to work in NE and he has obvious links to Mayo which may make him amenable to having him as the HC. Plus he's unemployed. Plus Kraft loves him.

It’s possible that Vrabel only wanted the role so he could select the players he’d be coaching and wouldn’t want the job as a standalone gig.

Agreed. Scar, also. The line has been a problem ever since he retired.

They did win a SB without him and I’d argue that this year was more injury related than anything. And there is a talent element as well. But no argument that the line has been worse the last few years in totality.

Don’t Hold the Mayo
Cinco de Mayo
Hey Oh, the New Coach is Mayo

Just spitballing here.

If you squint you can see the Lombardis in the rear view mirror.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Joe McCarthy

Jalex McCora

 

[Al Zarilla]

This is not really worthy of the main board, but I'm going to say it anyway because someone smart (CR67 maybe?) talked in another thread about the extent to which being a fan is a personal thing, so here's a fan-boy take.

I don't have any idea what makes a good coach. But one of things that I like -- all other things being equal -- is a certain demeanor on the sidelines. There are some guys who project an aura that they are making stuff happen, while others often give off the vibe that shit is happening to them. Belichick was the prototype of the first category and I have gotten used to it over 24 years. Then on the complete other end there's guys like the Norv Turners and Mike McCarthys of the world -- guys who look as though shit is happening and they are catching up. I admit that this is the dumbest shit to care about -- those guys may be the best coaches in the world but as a fan I prefer the first category even if it's just an illusion.

If nothing else, Mayo looks like a guy who is making shit happen and not having it happen to him.

No, that’s good. My longest lasting memory of BB on the sidelines will I’m sure be his gathering the defensive team during a timeout or when the offense was on the field during the Ravens playoff game in which we came back from two (2) two touchdown leads. I don’t think we saw it during the game but on one of the docs like “Do Your Job.” I was looking for my own shoulder pads just watching it, and, again, not even live. The other coach like this for me was Bill Walsh drawing a play in the dirt on the sideline with Joe Montana. The other team might just as well have walked off the field and into the locker room right then.

 

[Gash Prex]

Really like what I hear from Mayo

During Jerod Mayo's last media availability, I asked how his background outside of football gave him an advantage as a head coaching candidate. Here are some of his comments:

"Most people think of diversity as just black and white. But there is generational diversity. There's diversity of thought. And all those are welcome, at least to me. And I want to build an environment like that, where there is a sense of psychological safety that people don't feel handcuffed to give their opinion." "Culture could be a retrospective way of validating or invalidating success, right? This team won a bunch of games, so the culture must be great. Or this team lost a bunch of games, the culture must be bad. And that's not necessarily true." "I feel like I could talk to men, women, old, young, white, black, it doesn't matter, and hopefully develop those people into upstanding citizens and help them evolve. I feel like my calling is to develop and I would also say the role of a head coach is way different than the role of a coordinator. The role of a coordinator is way different than the role of a position coach. And so I look forward to the opportunity wherever that may be."

View: https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1745862506436788650

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

Welker is persona-non-grata with BB, so I don't think they go that way if they move on.

I don't know why Welker wore out his welcome. He just wanted to talk some FOOTball.

One of my old managers used to say that if employees are overly excited about a new boss, it’s probably because they know they will be easy to work for. I’m not suggesting Mayo will be a pushover, but the players don’t want a new guy coming in telling them what to do. Especially post-Belichick.

The quote from Mayo in the tweet just above probably comes across, and makes him relatable to ALL players. NFL coaches nowadays only can go so far in being a hard-ass, insofar as padded practices and practice time in general is greatly reduced. What I have seen in the business world for the current generation, empathy and empowerment are great weapons to get your team to perform for themselves and each other.

Due to Mayo's work ethic outlined by all his offseason conditioning awards, he is going to make the guys work hard not unlike Belichick. In my opinion the key difference seems to be Mayo will be a little more relatable and transparent with the players on the big picture of the organization and where each of them fit in, as opposed to Bill who compartmentalized everything and everyone for the ultimate "Do YOUR Job".

 

[TFP]

Losing Ernie, BB's best friend, I think is the most underrated loss in the organization over the last 4-5 years.

Wholeheartedly agree here - I think Ernie and Scar retiring were the death blows (figuratively) as they were people Bill likely leaned on and trusted implicitly. I might put Ivan Fears in that group too. Just 100+ years of experience and friendship tied up in those 3 alone.

I'm excited about the Mayo era. He clearly is a great communicator and knows his stuff, and it should be a significant change but doesn't require them to completely overhaul everything across the board. It's also interesting to me that 11 of the 16 playoff teams have head coaches who are with the team they took their first job with. Granted that includes Harbaugh and Tomlin, but hiring an HC without head coaching experience is not a guarantee that they won't succeed. Campbell, McDaniel, Ryans, Siriani, Stefanski, and LaFleur are all pretty recent hires as first timers. It likely isn't predictive, but it's an interesting factoid to me at least.

I'm much more interested in the larger front office/personnel side of the house and how that shakes out.

 

[AB in DC]

Not everyone likes Mayo

Kraft knows his Mayo.

 

[patinorange]

This is not really worthy of the main board, but I'm going to say it anyway because someone smart (CR67 maybe?) talked in another thread about the extent to which being a fan is a personal thing, so here's a fan-boy take.

I don't have any idea what makes a good coach. But one of things that I like -- all other things being equal -- is a certain demeanor on the sidelines. There are some guys who project an aura that they are making stuff happen, while others often give off the vibe that shit is happening to them. Belichick was the prototype of the first category and I have gotten used to it over 24 years. Then on the complete other end there's guys like the Norv Turners and Mike McCarthys of the world -- guys who look as though shit is happening and they are catching up. I admit that this is the dumbest shit to care about -- those guys may be the best coaches in the world but as a fan I prefer the first category even if it's just an illusion.

If nothing else, Mayo looks like a guy who is making shit happen and not having it happen to him. So, without the ability to judge this on any other basis other than reading the comments here from others, at least on day 1 that's a check mark in his favor.

Do you remember Raymond Berry with those index cards? Drove me crazy. I wanted to run down to the field and tackle him. But he took us to the Super Bowl, so I let it go.

 

[BaseballJones]

Assume for a moment that the Pats get Williams, Maye, or Daniels at #3, and that guy is their starting QB in 2024. How many teams in NFL history have started a season with a brand new GM, a rookie HC, and a rookie starting QB?

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Do you remember Raymond Berry with those index cards? Drove me crazy. I wanted to run down to the field and tackle him. But he took us to the Super Bowl, so I let it go.

Jason Garrett, aka ‘The Clapper,’ comes to mind as well.

 

[cshea]

Assume for a moment that the Pats get Williams, Maye, or Daniels at #3, and that guy is their starting QB in 2024. How many teams in NFL history have started a season with a brand new GM, a rookie HC, and a rookie starting QB?

Houston this year has 2 of the 3 plus a rookie OC.

 

[bsj]

Assume for a moment that the Pats get Williams, Maye, or Daniels at #3, and that guy is their starting QB in 2024. How many teams in NFL history have started a season with a brand new GM, a rookie HC, and a rookie starting QB?

To quote Jules, it's gonna be a hell of a story

 

[Justthetippett]

Assume for a moment that the Pats get Williams, Maye, or Daniels at #3, and that guy is their starting QB in 2024. How many teams in NFL history have started a season with a brand new GM, a rookie HC, and a rookie starting QB?

...and embarked on a 20 year reign of dominance thereafter? Hopefully only one!

 

[rodderick]

Assume for a moment that the Pats get Williams, Maye, or Daniels at #3, and that guy is their starting QB in 2024. How many teams in NFL history have started a season with a brand new GM, a rookie HC, and a rookie starting QB?

My first guess would be a reasonable amount? If you're starting a rookie QB you picked him high, if you had a high pick you sucked the previous season, if you sucked the previous season, odds are high the people in charge have been fired.

 

[BaseballJones]

I just hope that fans are patient, as it might take some time for this team to grow into what they could become. Everyone in the important positions will be on a steep learning curve.

 

[BaseballJones]

My first guess would be a reasonable amount? If you're starting a rookie QB you picked him high, if you had a high pick you sucked the previous season, if you sucked the previous season, odds are high the people in charge have been fired.

Your logic seems reasonable, but I just don't know the actual answer.

 

[Hoya81]

Assume for a moment that the Pats get Williams, Maye, or Daniels at #3, and that guy is their starting QB in 2024. How many teams in NFL history have started a season with a brand new GM, a rookie HC, and a rookie starting QB?

‘99 Browns: HC Palmer, QB Couch, GM Clark
‘71 Patriots: HC Mazur, QB Plunkett, GM Bell
Mazur was the interim coach in ‘70 after Clive Rush quit mid season but got the main job after the season ended.

 

[phineas gage]

Mazur was the interim coach in ‘70 after Clive Rush quit

One can only hope that we will not be returning to the Clive Rush era

 

[Silverdude2167]

4th and 2 basically triggered a national crisis but was essentially the first example of a game decision being made based off win probability.

Completely unimportant sidetrack.

He got the first down and the spot was shit.

 

[BaseballJones]

Completely unimportant sidetrack.

He got the first down and the spot was shit.

100% correct. Such a bogus call.

 

[rodderick]

Completely unimportant sidetrack.

He got the first down and the spot was shit.

Yup. Even after the bobble Faulk was past the marker.

 

[bakahump]

A few people have lamented that BB leaving a 4-13 team instead of a 10-7,11-6,12-5 team as part of the succession plan and is a reason to Not Hire JM.


Why? If you (RK) really think that the guy you hire is good and a long term answer then dont you hire him regardless? In what world do you say "Well I am not sure he is up to it.....but The team is currently good and should still be pretty good so sure why not".
Opt 1: If he is the RIGHT hire then he will turn around the CURRENT Situation. Maybe 8-9 next year and 10-7 after that.

Opt 2: If he is the wrong hire then even giving him a 11-6 team.....probably becomes a 10-7 team followed by 8-9 team anyway. So he would coast off BBs success for a couple years and prove to be a bad choice but still not really be "Fireable" and we have wasted 2-3 years.

Opt 3: Final possibility is JM inherits a 4-13 team, goes 4-13 or 6-11 or similar for a couple years in a row. Ok that sucks but its not like BB was really doing much better with the current/recent squad. And you can decide "Nope not the guy".

So yea option 3 would suck but that would really indicate we got the wrong guy.. which can be a good thing in your not wishing on fools gold (a 10-7 post BB slow decline like option 2).

The main point being if you think you have the right guy.....you dont worry about last year or the team he inherits. RK obviously thinks that JM is THE RIGHT guy....regardless of last year.

 

[Cellar-Door]

A few people have lamented that BB leaving a 4-13 team instead of a 10-7,11-6,12-5 team as part of the succession plan and is a reason to Not Hire JM.


Why? If you (RK) really think that the guy you hire is good and a long term answer then dont you hire him regardless? In what world do you say "Well I am not sure he is up to it.....but The team is currently good and should still be pretty good so sure why not".
Opt 1: If he is the RIGHT hire then he will turn around the CURRENT Situation. Maybe 8-9 next year and 10-7 after that.

Opt 2: If he is the wrong hire then even giving him a 11-6 team.....probably becomes a 10-7 team followed by 8-9 team anyway. So he would coast off BBs success for a couple years and prove to be a bad choice but still not really be "Fireable" and we have wasted 2-3 years.

Opt 3: Final possibility is JM inherits a 4-13 team, goes 4-13 or 6-11 or similar for a couple years in a row. Ok that sucks but its not like BB was really doing much better with the current/recent squad. And you can decide "Nope not the guy".

So yea option 3 would suck but that would really indicate we got the wrong guy.. which can be a good thing in your not wishing on fools gold (a 10-7 post BB slow decline like option 2).

The main point being if you think you have the right guy.....you dont worry about last year or the team he inherits. RK obviously thinks that JM is THE RIGHT guy....regardless of last year.

Honestly having a wildly down year is good for the next guy.
Like this is a much better year to take over from Bill than say last year because:
1. You get to bring in an elite QB prospect if you want instead of having to play Mac Jones.
2. Easier schedule hypothetically
3. Lowered expectations (if they go 8-9 next year people will be pretty happy, if they had just gone 8-9... not so much)
4. The decks have been pretty much cleared on Bill's FA acquisitions, you have cap space and only 1 or 2 contracts you probably wish you didn't

 

[BaseballJones]

Honestly having a wildly down year is good for the next guy.
Like this is a much better year to take over from Bill than say last year because:
1. You get to bring in an elite QB prospect if you want instead of having to play Mac Jones.
2. Easier schedule hypothetically
3. Lowered expectations (if they go 8-9 next year people will be pretty happy, if they had just gone 8-9... not so much)
4. The decks have been pretty much cleared on Bill's FA acquisitions, you have cap space and only 1 or 2 contracts you probably wish you didn't

Agreed. I think Mayo is stepping into a very good situation actually.

 

[lexrageorge]

Completely unimportant sidetrack.

He got the first down and the spot was shit.

Also, the tackle was textbook perfection, which probably influenced what the official saw when making the spot.