I heard the $4 billion number he said and thought it was with no fans.
I heard the $4 billion number he said and thought it was with no fans.
Nobody is sitting out if the PA and the owners agree to pay. Everything you hear now is part of the negotiation.Honestly, I doubt very few athletes would actually sit out. Imagine being the one policeman in your department choosing not to work. I get that one is an essential service and one isn't, but I can't imagine it would sit well with the rest of the players if they are out there risking it without their families.
Plus these are healthy guys in their 20's and 30's basically living in a biodome and likely being tested daily. I'd love to have that luxury when I'm dealing with dozens of customers face to face every day for a 50th of the pay.
Cops make a whole lot less than ballplayers do, so skipping a year is a different thing entirely for so many reasonsHonestly, I doubt very few athletes would actually sit out. Imagine being the one policeman in your department choosing not to work. I get that one is an essential service and one isn't, but I can't imagine it would sit well with the rest of the players if they are out there risking it without their families.
Plus these are healthy guys in their 20's and 30's basically living in a biodome and likely being tested daily. I'd love to have that luxury when I'm dealing with dozens of customers face to face every day for a 50th of the pay.
That's not the point I'm going for. Take the actual profession out of the analogy. Being the only person on a team, in a department, etc not working is going to create some tension.Cops make a whole lot less than ballplayers do, so skipping a year is a different thing entirely for so many reasons
Sort of the mirror image of scab players during a strike?That's not the point I'm going for. Take the actual profession out of the analogy. Being the only person on a team, in a department, etc not working is going to create some tension.
The NBA would also be a really bad look. Having playoff basketball games on in July while the MLB is at home would not be good. The NBA has been eyeing the summer for awhile and this might push them further in that direction long term.I sincerely hope that the owners and the PA realize that if they can't find common ground and end up shitcanning the 2020 season, and then the NFL comes back and is able to safely resume play, the sport of baseball will suffer immeasurable losses and will never be the same. It is one thing if health reasons dictate a shutdown, but they cannot allow money to be the reason that no games are played this year.
Korea and Taiwan have already figured it out and are playing games. At least from an on-field execution standpoint, the blueprint is already there. Granted, those are smaller geographic areas than MLB is dealing with, and they did a far better job in those countries containing the virus, but if they can make it work, there's no reason MLB can't make it work too.I don't get how baseball can't figure this out - rapid testing may not be perfect, but using it plus other safety measures in a sport literally built for outdoor social distancing should be a no-brainer. They have a monopoly on sports right now if they can get this right.
I'd also add on that no matter the number of fans in the stands, Blake Snell's arm after 110 pitches will be hurt just as bad as it would be in any other scenario. His work may be 70% less valuable to the team than it would have been with fans in the stands, but it doesn't reduce the workload on his body by that same 70% nor can they just reduce his hours by 70%. I don't think many people would accept their job, where they signed a guaranteed contract, paying them not only for fewer "hours" (pro-rated salary) than expected but then chopping the salaries in those hours.Because baseball is not a direct revenue sharing sport, the players don't get raises when giant new TV contracts are signed, and this season is not occurring in a vacuum from previous and future seasons, despite the very unique circumstances. The owners have seen the value of their teams go up by hundreds of millions or even billions in the last decade, sometimes that means taking a short-term loss.
This analogy isn't complete though. In this case, the $50k agreement also had a clause which said that the financials would be revisited by both parties in the event that the owner couldn't rent the apartments (fans couldn't attend games).Trevor Bauer explained it in a different way, as he often does. Say you are a painter and you sign a contract for $100k for a year to paint an apartment building. Then the building catches fire and burns half the apartments down. So you renegotiate with the owner for $50k for the year. After a few months the owner comes back and says he can't rent the apartments and you need to cut your pay. It has nothing to do with the amount of work or the quality of your work, he just can't rent the apartments. What would you say to that?
On another note the owners want the players to agree to 50-50 split. Why don't they share with each other. Teams like the Sox, Jankees and Dodgers get huge local TV money that teams like Cleveland and Tampa don't. If they split those then fewer teams would be close to failing.
Except that he's going to do that 12-15 times in 2020 versus the 23-31 he has in the past 3 seasons.I'd also add on that no matter the number of fans in the stands, Blake Snell's arm after 110 pitches will be hurt just as bad as it would be in any other scenario.
Honest question - I'm guessing you work for a relatively small business or something that's a threat to go under if things stay bad?Meanwhile, Bryce Harper comes out and says, “good for Blake - he’s absolutely right,” and Mark Teixeira is saying that they speak for a majority of the players in MLB.
I was out of work for six days, and I offered to come back and do whatever I could to keep the business moving at whatever limited capacity we could. We’re short staffed, revenues are down and I’m working harder than I did before, for roughly 60% of what I used to earn. As unemployment figures continue to climb to levels we haven’t seen in this nation in over 80 years, I’m just happy to be employed and doing my part to keep the economy creeping forward. I have faith that this too shall pass, and that my efforts now will be rewarded in the future.
So in short, fuck all of these guys that share Blake Snell’s sentiments. You get paid exceptionally well to play a fucking game, and the fans that make it possible for you earn that kind of money are all suffering right now, mentally, physically and financially. No one wants to hear you bitch about potentially getting paid $3.5M instead of $7M.
These assholes are just completely divorced from reality. I’m in no hurry to spend any of my disposable income supporting this product, even when it is considered “safe” to return to the ballpark.
exactly, the PA already agreed to proration. My point was about the additional suggested reduction.Except that he's going to do that 12-15 times in 2020 versus the 23-31 he has in the past 3 seasons.
We survived a cancelled World Series about 25 years ago. The losses were measurable; perhaps the sport was never the same, but the game survived.I sincerely hope that the owners and the PA realize that if they can't find common ground and end up shitcanning the 2020 season, and then the NFL comes back and is able to safely resume play, the sport of baseball will suffer immeasurable losses and will never be the same. It is one thing if health reasons dictate a shutdown, but they cannot allow money to be the reason that no games are played this year.
I work for a car dealership that is part of a much larger nationwide auto network. The company financials are strong and I feel very positive about the long term outlook. That said, sales and revenue are nowhere near where they would be at this time of year, and it’s reasonable that we are not being compensated commensurate with the level of work we are putting in.Honest question - I'm guessing you work for a relatively small business or something that's a threat to go under if things stay bad?
Would you feel the same if you worked for Walmart or Goldman Sachs? Or if your boss was Jeff Bezos? Would you be so eager to sacrifice for them?
I'm not saying Snell is right or that they should expect full salaries, but it's naive to think the owners aren't trying to use your exact sentiment against them.
As someone who received a cortisone shot in his pitching elbow in March, all of Snell's posturing seems a bit disingenuous. Getting an extra 12 months to rest your moneymaker in the name of Corona concerns - how convenient!yeah, I’ve been thinking about that too. I didn’t get it at first. But it makes some sense to me — If I am parsing his admittedly confusing statement correctly.
I think what he’s saying is that he’s willing to risk getting coronavirus, and potentially cutting his career short or never being the same athlete again because of reduced lung capacity or anything else, but only because the contract that he signed reflected that. There’s always a risk of needing Tommy John surgery, or having a career ending injury. But he’s not willing to risk his entire career worth of earnings just to come back for a half season at a much reduced amount.
But, again, the guy is hardly Mark Twain — I could be misreading his word salad.
MLB is in a weaker position now than it was 26 years ago, as it has continued to lose fans to football and other sports. The game of baseball will survive Covid-19, but I believe it would be a shadow of its former self (and would likely command far lower broadcast dollars and interest) if the 2020 season is cancelled over finances while other sports find away to play.We survived a cancelled World Series about 25 years ago. The losses were measurable; perhaps the sport was never the same, but the game survived.
I had been thinking about writing basically all of this, but you did a much better job than I would have. I get why reducing salaries by XX% (let's say 50% if they play half a season) makes sense, but asking the players to take a further hit when they still effectively are doing their jobs at the highest level seems like a bit much. Whether or not fans are in the stands, the players still will be playing the games.I'd also add on that no matter the number of fans in the stands, Blake Snell's arm after 110 pitches will be hurt just as bad as it would be in any other scenario. His work may be 70% less valuable to the team than it would have been with fans in the stands, but it doesn't reduce the workload on his body by that same 70% nor can they just reduce his hours by 70%. I don't think many people would accept their job, where they signed a guaranteed contract, paying them not only for fewer "hours" (pro-rated salary) than expected but then chopping the salaries in those hours.
Really, if my employer signed me to an annual salary of 52k a year, then said well don't work January to June and we'll pay you 26k a year, and then said take a hit on that 26k? I'd probably go look for a different job or just refuse. Snell is not unreasonable in this spot, at least in my view. If contracts were directly tied to revenue sure maybe, but they're not and a man less than a year off elbow surgery making a fraction of a fraction doesn't have to lay down for it.
Edit: To address the point above: once there are more people like you who can do what Blake Snell does, have at it. He has a unique skillset and a signed contract and he's being asked to make a fairly substantial financial sacrifice in a career where timeframes are uncertain and limited that is just as much a risk to his body and no less work.
But bravo for the millionaires who refuse to provide a little ray of sunshine into our currently dreary lives unless they get every penny of the vast salaries they would have otherwise been entitled to earn absent a biological and economic catastrophe?Boo hoo for the billionaires. Honor your guarantees. If you decide you can’t afford it, cancel the season. Frankly, we’ll survive. (Which is what they really should be worried about).
This is where I’m at. Why don’t more people care about the underlying gross inequities in funneling testing and PPE to the wealthy? Hospitals can’t get enough (which means we’re all potentially screwed, if we get sick), but MLB can get whatever they need to start playing again?Just had to listen to my mother cry about her 12 year old patient and her sister dealing with immunocompromised issues and being unable to be safe with their own families because testing kits aren't available until someone shows specific symptoms because of shortage.
If MLB comes back and has all their on field personnel tested every day I am never watching another MLB game again. The owners need to deal with losing some money and the players need to grow the fuck up.
That's standard clause in MLB contracts?This analogy isn't complete though. In this case, the $50k agreement also had a clause which said that the financials would be revisited by both parties in the event that the owner couldn't rent the apartments (fans couldn't attend games).
X2. Terrible attitude, of owners and players, when lot of people are suffering a health and/or economic crisis.Just had to listen to my mother cry about her 12 year old patient and her sister dealing with immunocompromised issues and being unable to be safe with their own families because testing kits aren't available until someone shows specific symptoms because of shortage.
If MLB comes back and has all their on field personnel tested every day I am never watching another MLB game again. The owners need to deal with losing some money and the players need to grow the fuck up.
Everyone has his price. If there was an activity you could participate in that would come with a 5% chance of you dying, you might not do it for, say, $100. But if you’d get $10 million for that same activity, you might do it.Its obviously an individual's prerogative as to whether they want to expose themselves to the risk of getting coronavirus, but I found this part of his quotes interesting:
"Bro, I'm risking my life. What do you mean it should not be a thing? It should 100% be a thing. If I'm gonna play, I should be getting the money I signed to be getting paid."
So he's okay taking risking his life if he gets $7 million, but its unacceptable if he only gets $1.75 million or $3.5 million or whatever he'd get under the proposal?
Also how does it affect service time, team control, the 40 man roster, they have so much to figure out.50-man rosters sounds crazy -- it's a logistical nightmare.
Is any baseball stadium built to support 50-man rosters? What are you going to do with the 15-20 guys who almost never play? How are you going to pay the major league minimum to all those guys (hint: you aren't)? Do you completely reconstruct the salary cap for this year to facilitate this? How do you keep your 20th relief pitcher ready to rock every night? How about your 8th starter?
I understand the necessity for an expanded roster -- you've got to have guys who are able to step in for a long period if a number of guys all get sick at once -- but 50 seems impossible.
Is any baseball stadium built to support 50-man rosters? What are you going to do with the 15-20 guys who almost never play?
The 15-20 guys are probably playing scrimmages vs themselves as a pseudo minor league team in order to stay sharp when players get sick or injured.50-man rosters sounds crazy -- it's a logistical nightmare.
Is any baseball stadium built to support 50-man rosters? What are you going to do with the 15-20 guys who almost never play? How are you going to pay the major league minimum to all those guys (hint: you aren't)? Do you completely reconstruct the salary cap for this year to facilitate this? How do you keep your 20th relief pitcher ready to rock every night? How about your 8th starter?
I understand the necessity for an expanded roster -- you've got to have guys who are able to step in for a long period if a number of guys all get sick at once -- but 50 seems impossible.
I think doubleheader days are part of this and in a non-Covid year, I believe teams would get 27 players on doubleheader days, the normal 26 man roster (don't forget it went up from 25 this season) plus an additional one. 30 maybe cuts down on shuttling guys between the two squads and cuts down on transmission risk some? Dunno.Don't understand the 30 man roster thing if you have a Taxi Squad. With only 1 starting pitcher each game you can easily have 10 relievers and 15 position players available every day.
I think you’re right. Until it hits them or their family.We don’t have any hard data to suggest fans are angry or uncomfortable with the ideas of players having access to testing that they don’t, but I’d guess the majority are fine with that trade if it means the sport(s) is back.
My wife works at a public hospital. Goes in every day, puts on PPE, and has direct contact with C19 patients.X2. Terrible attitude, of owners and players, when lot of people are suffering a health and/or economic crisis.
I'm guessing the leagues will work out a PR arrangement with the local communities where the players are tested, but they provide extra testing capacity free of charge to each local community or something like that.I understand the concerns - my thoughts are they would be using a rapid (but less reliable) testing mechanism which would not be approved in a hospital situation. Plus we are talking over 2 months from now where hopefully testing is significantly different than today. Maybe the rapid tests become more reliable but unless they use rapid tests I don’t see how this works.
Which mirrors the HR, legal and PR nightmares all business owners are facing. On many levels, MLB is no different than your local non-essential retail shop. And since local business are certainly not able to blindly test returning employees right now (even once), there's that element of risk - one that MLB/PA are trying to mitigate by seeking perpetual testing.This thread gives you an idea of the PR nightmare MLB and all sports are facing currently, people vowing to hate them forever if they come back and others who will never forgive them if they don't.
The neighborhood rule will be at an extreme.The distancing and mask usage are exactly what's being proposed.
https://theathletic.com/1818308/2020/05/16/exclusive-mlb-proposes-medical-protocols-to-players-in-67-page-document?source=user-shared-article
Everything looks reasonable for keeping safe during games, but I don't see how it's not all undone as soon as the team steps on a plane together.
What is likely the bare bones contingent needed for a team when it travels? 50 people? 60? Figure 30 players, a dozen coaches, various trainers and support staff. If the team plan is just those people (no press, no families, no entourage of team execs), they should be able to spread out enough to distance properly. Maybe they have to wear masks as well just to be extra safe. There aren't going to be any cross-continent flights with the limited schedule...2-3 hour max flights could be managed.The distancing and mask usage are exactly what's being proposed.
https://theathletic.com/1818308/2020/05/16/exclusive-mlb-proposes-medical-protocols-to-players-in-67-page-document?source=user-shared-article
Everything looks reasonable for keeping safe during games, but I don't see how it's not all undone as soon as the team steps on a plane together.