I care much more about expanding 40 man rosters for current teams than I do adding more teams, but if they are going to add teams, two more to make it 32 seems to make a lot of mathematical sense.How much though? 2 teams worth? 6?
I care much more about expanding 40 man rosters for current teams than I do adding more teams, but if they are going to add teams, two more to make it 32 seems to make a lot of mathematical sense.How much though? 2 teams worth? 6?
2021-schedule-scores.shtmlYeah. From what I read this year saw a big increase in attendance over all 30 teams thanks in part to the rule changes. And I don't think that Fenway fully opened until May or June of 2021 due to Covid restrictions and other teams followed suit. Just randomly checking on a game in April between the Sox and Chicago (AL) saw 4668 pass through the turnstyles. When the Sox were in Minnesota the series prior, there was only 7400 in the stands.
I'd throw most of the 2021 data out the window.
There is a joint-ish plan between Austin and San Antonio to put a team in Buda, but San Antonio is scoffing and wants more of the cut.Living in Austin, it's pretty crazy that the Austin-San Antonio corridor doesn't have a MLB team. I'd like to another Canadian franchise or two (Montreal and Yellowknife make the most sense... or maybe Vancouver instead?).
Las Vegas and another from any of Chicago, NY/Newark area, greater LA area could all support additional teams without hurting the existing regional team. Also... Colorado team needs to move. Tampa too.
Worldwide? I’d bet it is up substantially. Watching on TV and in person in the US? That seems to me to be the question that isn’t being asked here. Is there enough domestic demand for more teams and more games?I get that the population has increased since the last time the league expanded, but do we have any sense to what extent the population of people playing baseball has gone up?
My gut reaction is "no". Baseball seems to have a problem connecting with younger viewers. A quick google search shows a 2017 study cited on a bunch of websites showing that the (then) average age of an MLB viewer was 57 and had been increasing since 2000. I imagine the average age has not decreased since then. Anecdotally, it seems like fewer kids are going into baseball too, either playing it or watching it.Worldwide? I’d bet it is up substantially. Watching on TV and in person in the US? That seems to me to be the question that isn’t being asked here. Is there enough domestic demand for more teams and more games?
Would they be known as the Buda Pests?There is a joint-ish plan between Austin and San Antonio to put a team in Buda, but San Antonio is scoffing and wants more of the cut.
I was 17 years old at the time and a die hard baseball fan. I will never forget how angry I was at my dad for voting against the 1% food tax hike. The proposed stadium site was about a mile from our house in Kernersville. I know it will never happen, but I think it could still work. Wherever it is, North Carolina is well overdue for a team. We have 3 of the top 40 markets (1 shared w/ South Carolina) listed above. It's time.That almost happened 25 years ago....
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/mlb-in-nc-it-struck-out-19-years-ago/83-455758206
It has not kept pace with population growth in the U.S. recently. This chart from Statista shows that high school baseball participation has been stuck around 480K for the past decade. However, I don't know how that 480K in 2022 compares to 1998.I get that the population has increased since the last time the league expanded, but do we have any sense to what extent the population of people playing baseball has gone up?
I like the cut of your jib here. Might be worth me posting my analysis of sport teams/franchises by city/MSA, so it's easier to spot the gaps / negative space.It would never happen, but I'd put another team LA and NY, Charlotte, Austin, Portland, and Nashville. That's 6. Go back to 4 divisions since there's not really much of a difference between the AL and NL. That's 36 teams. 9 teams per division. Top 4 teams get into the playoffs.
Then, in each division, there's a 3 game series. The 1 and 2 seeds get all 3 games at home. 5 game series between those winners, 2-2-1. 7 game series between the AL and NL division winners, 2-3-2. Then World Series, 2-3-2 again.
I remember reading several years ago that Austin and San Antonio are close enough to be one metro area but that the commuting/travel patterns just don't support it. It's a marketers dream but probably decades away from anything like that happening.There is a joint-ish plan between Austin and San Antonio to put a team in Buda, but San Antonio is scoffing and wants more of the cut.
So the best case scenario for a team is moving into a market that's worse than 20 other teams? And you need billions for an expansion fee and ballpark? That doesn't sound like a great deal.I like the cut of your jib here. Might be worth me posting my analysis of sport teams/franchises by city/MSA, so it's easier to spot the gaps / negative space.
View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-hpaBlQF9S8QoDHh333Q_FEtIs3qQVJZ8BdeQG9gIR0/edit#gid=1331925850
MLB summary notes:
- They're in the top 17 US DMAs already (+Toronto)
- #18 (Orlando / Daytona Beach / Melbourne) is basically owned by the Rays, gonna be hard to get someone in there
- Next 4 up are #20 Sacramento, #21 Charlotte, #22 Portland, and #25 Indianapolis. Those are 2 of your 4 proposed new cities.
- #27 Raleigh-Durham and #28 Nashville are next, covering another one of your nominees. Then #30 Salt Lake City before you get to #31 San Antonio.
- You have a long way down to #40 Austin, so only if you really think the two metro areas are going to "share" a team (in the way that Orlando and Tampa do, basically) can you add their sizes together and argue they "deserve it more" from a market perspective.
- It's easy to forget, but Montreal would be the #14 market if you include Canada. Failure of baseball in Montreal is a business failure, not a market-size failure.
Growth Rate of the region certainly matters, and from that perspective Charlotte and central Texas look better than otherwise - but let's look at this with some data from the BEA. I'll put in a table for all the MSAs lacking an MLB team all the way down to #44 Birmingham (itself far smaller than the currently smallest MLB region - #37 Cincinnati). By recent population growth (2020-2022), you have these top DMAs from that list:
1. Austin, 6.0%
2. Raleigh-Durham, 5.0%
3. Jacksonville, 4.4%
4. San Antonio, 3.8%
5. Charlotte, 3.6%
6. Orlando, 3.4%
And by 5-year projected (cumulative) population growth, here's your up-and-comers from our list:
1. Austin, 13.6%
2. Nashville, 9.4%
3. Raleigh-Durham, 9.3%
4. Orlando, 8.3%
5. Salt Lake City, 8.2%
6. Charlotte, 8.2%
And by GDP / Capita:
1. Salt Lake City, $93.8k
2. Hartford (!), $87.9k
3. Austin, $82.4k
4. Nashville, $81.0k
5. Charlotte, $77.0k
6. Indianapolis, $76.2k
7. Raleigh-Durham, $74.8k
8. Portland, $74.3k
9. Columbus, $71.8k
10. Sacramento, $66.6k (really falls off from here)
So based on those lists, it seems like Austin ought to be a top candidate in its own right, whether you can put it on the south of town by I-35 and attract more people from San Antonio or not. Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte are right behind. Orlando might be hopeless but Salt Lake City is not, and ranks out very well on incomes. And Portland is perhaps the worst prospect of the bunch you propose. So I'd say we should replace Portland on your list with Montreal, and if we're adding anyone else, you'd next go with SLC and the NC Triangle before we think about Portland.
Your objection could be raised if there were only 8 teams in the league, and we were thinking about adding one in the country's 9th city. "well they're going into a situation that's worse than all the other teams, why would anyone bother?"So the best case scenario for a team is moving into a market that's worse than 20 other teams? And you need billions for an expansion fee and ballpark? That doesn't sound like a great deal.
I own property right in the middle of the two cities. Some of my tenants commute to SAT and some commute to AUS. But it's very much a set of bedroom communities all the way up I-35 between the two cities. In the middle is a place (New Braunfels) that's more than just a wide spot in the road, has a pretty cool theme park, etc - but it's not like we're talking about the stretch of development in between, like, Philly and NYC here, or West Palm and Miami. It's not quite tumbleweeds along I-35 there, but it's not a cohesive metro area - it's not Seattle-Tacoma, it's not SF-San Jose (nevermind SF-Oakland), it's not Raleigh-Durham-Cary. Could you put a sports team just south of Austin or just north of San Antonio and pull some fans from the other city who'd drive up or down? Sure. But it'd still be a bit of a haul. I wouldn't want to be in charge of trying to execute a business plan that depended on marketing "our team" as belonging to both of the two cities.I remember reading several years ago that Austin and San Antonio are close enough to be one metro area but that the commuting/travel patterns just don't support it. It's a marketers dream but probably decades away from anything like that happening.
I’d argue that Combined Statistical Areas are a better measure than MSAs of a market’s ability to support professional sports. By this metric, Charlotte and Portland are the two largest markets without MLB teams (#19 and 20, respectively), with Salt Lake City (22) not far behind. Raleigh (31) and Nashville (32) are much smaller.I like the cut of your jib here. Might be worth me posting my analysis of sport teams/franchises by city/MSA, so it's easier to spot the gaps / negative space.
View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-hpaBlQF9S8QoDHh333Q_FEtIs3qQVJZ8BdeQG9gIR0/edit#gid=1331925850
MLB summary notes:
- They're in the top 17 US DMAs already (+Toronto)
- #18 (Orlando / Daytona Beach / Melbourne) is basically owned by the Rays, gonna be hard to get someone in there
- Next 4 up are #20 Sacramento, #21 Charlotte, #22 Portland, and #25 Indianapolis. Those are 2 of your 4 proposed new cities.
- #27 Raleigh-Durham and #28 Nashville are next, covering another one of your nominees. Then #30 Salt Lake City before you get to #31 San Antonio.
- You have a long way down to #40 Austin, so only if you really think the two metro areas are going to "share" a team (in the way that Orlando and Tampa do, basically) can you add their sizes together and argue they "deserve it more" from a market perspective.
- It's easy to forget, but Montreal would be the #14 market if you include Canada. Failure of baseball in Montreal is a business failure, not a market-size failure.
Growth Rate of the region certainly matters, and from that perspective Charlotte and central Texas look better than otherwise - but let's look at this with some data from the BEA. I'll put in a table for all the MSAs lacking an MLB team all the way down to #44 Birmingham (itself far smaller than the currently smallest MLB region - #37 Cincinnati). By recent population growth (2020-2022), you have these top DMAs from that list:
1. Austin, 6.0%
2. Raleigh-Durham, 5.0%
3. Jacksonville, 4.4%
4. San Antonio, 3.8%
5. Charlotte, 3.6%
6. Orlando, 3.4%
And by 5-year projected (cumulative) population growth, here's your up-and-comers from our list:
1. Austin, 13.6%
2. Nashville, 9.4%
3. Raleigh-Durham, 9.3%
4. Orlando, 8.3%
5. Salt Lake City, 8.2%
6. Charlotte, 8.2%
And by GDP / Capita:
1. Salt Lake City, $93.8k
2. Hartford (!), $87.9k
3. Austin, $82.4k
4. Nashville, $81.0k
5. Charlotte, $77.0k
6. Indianapolis, $76.2k
7. Raleigh-Durham, $74.8k
8. Portland, $74.3k
9. Columbus, $71.8k
10. Sacramento, $66.6k (really falls off from here)
So based on those lists, it seems like Austin ought to be a top candidate in its own right, whether you can put it on the south of town by I-35 and attract more people from San Antonio or not. Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte are right behind. Orlando might be hopeless but Salt Lake City is not, and ranks out very well on incomes. And Portland is perhaps the worst prospect of the bunch you propose. So I'd say we should replace Portland on your list with Montreal, and if we're adding anyone else, you'd next go with SLC and the NC Triangle before we think about Portland.
Kernersville would be fantastic, honestly. Still plenty of open land, decent infrastructure including easy highway access. Charlotte and Raleigh have very successful AAA teams. The best we have here in between are the Grasshoppers (who do quite well) and the Dash.I was 17 years old at the time and a die hard baseball fan. I will never forget how angry I was at my dad for voting against the 1% food tax hike. The proposed stadium site was about a mile from our house in Kernersville. I know it will never happen, but I think it could still work. Wherever it is, North Carolina is well overdue for a team. We have 3 of the top 40 markets (1 shared w/ South Carolina) listed above. It's time.
Orlando is #15. A smart owner in Tampa would have made a play for some of that market, but that didn't happen.I’d argue that Combined Statistical Areas are a better measure than MSAs of a market’s ability to support professional sports. By this metric, Charlotte and Portland are the two largest markets without MLB teams (#19 and 20, respectively), with Salt Lake City (22) not far behind. Raleigh (31) and Nashville (32) are much smaller.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area
If memory serves, the Trop was built in St. Petersburg on spec in the 1980s, in hopes of luring a team. So it’s not like the current or former owners of the Rays chose to build the stadium at the far end of the metro area, rather than in Tampa proper or along I-4 (such that a sizable fraction of the Orlando area would be within an hour’s drive of the stadium.)Orlando is #15. A smart owner in Tampa would have made a play for some of that market, but that didn't happen.
As I remember, they never had a very well-organized pitch to get support for that bill. I went to the exhibition game they had then to drum up support with the Twins and Expos in Winston at what was then…err…Ernie Shore Field.I was 17 years old at the time and a die hard baseball fan. I will never forget how angry I was at my dad for voting against the 1% food tax hike. The proposed stadium site was about a mile from our house in Kernersville. I know it will never happen, but I think it could still work. Wherever it is, North Carolina is well overdue for a team. We have 3 of the top 40 markets (1 shared w/ South Carolina) listed above. It's time.
Correct. But they’ve had 25 years to get that right. No reason to not have built a new park on the eastern side of Tampa to take advantage of the I-4 corridor towards Orlando. Well, no reason other than greed.If memory serves, the Trop was built in St. Petersburg on spec in the 1980s, in hopes of luring a team. So it’s not like the current or former owners of the Rays chose to build the stadium at the far end of the metro area, rather than in Tampa proper or along I-4 (such that a sizable fraction of the Orlando area would be within an hour’s drive of the stadium.)
I'm OK with this, but more importantly what I meant was the 40 man rosters should expand to 45, or 40 plus a taxi squad of up to 5 young prospects nowhere near the majors who need to be protected from the rule 5. Right now those guys take up spots on the 40 man roster and it really doesn't help anyone in the long run, not the players and certainly not teams trying to win who could use those spots for players ready now.and i agree the rosters need to expand to 30 or 32 per team
I'm a fan of expansion, but not in this current model. It would be a seismic shift, but moving away from a 162 game league schedule could go a long way towards accommodating additional teams. I love what the NBA is trying to do with an in-season tourney, but it feels like a half measure. After watching Euro football leagues and the multiple layers of competition they play towards; taking a page from that could help grow the sport, spark fan interest, and grow the talent pool. Playing every day for 6 months to maybe have two post-season games is a huge investment of time and attention, something our 19th century game is less suited for in the 21st century.I'd be OK with adding 15 more teams if they could figure out revenue sharing.
This would be complex, but I'd fucking love a relegation system like the Premier League has. It would help avoid tankathons like what the Astros did and make the regular season way more fun.
This isn't a strong argument to me. New people are moving in all the time, Yankees and Mets games are expensive and hard to get to from lots of places, people get pissed off at them when they're bad, lots of people just like whatever team is doing well at the time. Yeah you're not going to convince diehards to switch but that doesn't describe most people.I don't know enough about the LA market, but I'll push back strongly on the notion that the NY market would support a third team. Theoretically there is the population here for that (I live in Fairfield County), but realistically the Yankees and Mets completely saturate the market. I can't imagine almost anyone switching allegiances, and of course there's no way on Earth that either franchise would allow more teams to be located here.
I like the cut of your jib here. Might be worth me posting my analysis of sport teams/franchises by city/MSA, so it's easier to spot the gaps / negative space.
View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-hpaBlQF9S8QoDHh333Q_FEtIs3qQVJZ8BdeQG9gIR0/edit#gid=1331925850
MLB summary notes:
- They're in the top 17 US DMAs already (+Toronto)
- #18 (Orlando / Daytona Beach / Melbourne) is basically owned by the Rays, gonna be hard to get someone in there
- Next 4 up are #20 Sacramento, #21 Charlotte, #22 Portland, and #25 Indianapolis. Those are 2 of your 4 proposed new cities.
- #27 Raleigh-Durham and #28 Nashville are next, covering another one of your nominees. Then #30 Salt Lake City before you get to #31 San Antonio.
- You have a long way down to #40 Austin, so only if you really think the two metro areas are going to "share" a team (in the way that Orlando and Tampa do, basically) can you add their sizes together and argue they "deserve it more" from a market perspective.
- It's easy to forget, but Montreal would be the #14 market if you include Canada. Failure of baseball in Montreal is a business failure, not a market-size failure.
Growth Rate of the region certainly matters, and from that perspective Charlotte and central Texas look better than otherwise - but let's look at this with some data from the BEA. I'll put in a table for all the MSAs lacking an MLB team all the way down to #44 Birmingham (itself far smaller than the currently smallest MLB region - #37 Cincinnati). By recent population growth (2020-2022), you have these top DMAs from that list:
1. Austin, 6.0%
2. Raleigh-Durham, 5.0%
3. Jacksonville, 4.4%
4. San Antonio, 3.8%
5. Charlotte, 3.6%
6. Orlando, 3.4%
And by 5-year projected (cumulative) population growth, here's your up-and-comers from our list:
1. Austin, 13.6%
2. Nashville, 9.4%
3. Raleigh-Durham, 9.3%
4. Orlando, 8.3%
5. Salt Lake City, 8.2%
6. Charlotte, 8.2%
And by GDP / Capita:
1. Salt Lake City, $93.8k
2. Hartford (!), $87.9k
3. Austin, $82.4k
4. Nashville, $81.0k
5. Charlotte, $77.0k
6. Indianapolis, $76.2k
7. Raleigh-Durham, $74.8k
8. Portland, $74.3k
9. Columbus, $71.8k
10. Sacramento, $66.6k (really falls off from here)
So based on those lists, it seems like Austin ought to be a top candidate in its own right, whether you can put it on the south of town by I-35 and attract more people from San Antonio or not. Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte are right behind. Orlando might be hopeless but Salt Lake City is not, and ranks out very well on incomes. And Portland is perhaps the worst prospect of the bunch you propose. So I'd say we should replace Portland on your list with Montreal, and if we're adding anyone else, you'd next go with SLC and the NC Triangle before we think about Portland.
Yeah, many obvious hurdles. I think it might be a hard sell finding players that would be willing to relocate to Cuba for half of the year. I also wonder if MLB would see enough financial attraction to award a franchise there. Logistically speaking, multiple series played by existing teams during the regular season would work within the time frame of normal travel to most east coast cities.I have a ton of thoughts on this, but for now, just a drive-by: I dream of an MLB team in Havana. Obviously a few hurdles to overcome, but it would be incredible.
For the uneducated, geographically speaking, would the area be able to sustain a large enough attendance to sustain an 81 game regular season?In support of the prospects for MLB in Salt Lake City (and I’ve mentioned some of this in various other threads, but I feel like this is the “real” expansion thread moving forward);
The Miller family has been highly respected and successful as NBA and MiLB owners for a very long time. They have enough money, experience, stability and influence to join the MLB owners club. MLB cares, a LOT, about this stuff when they have the luxury to care.
They have a very attractive, viable pathway to a great stadium site vacant enough for a “The Battery” type development, but much closer to downtown than Atlanta’s version. Thats a huge plus.
The Millers just broke ground on a new AAA stadium in Daybreak, a pretty far southwest suburb, despite the fact that their existing park, while in a borderline sketchy neighborhood, is one of the most picturesque stadiums in baseball, more than perfectly suitable for fans and players and could be state-of-the-art with a modest renovation…I just don’t think they’d be doing that in the absence of some pretty strong indicators that their MLB bid is being looked upon favorably.
Salt Lake Bees - Daybreak
CSA of SLC is 2.7M, roughly 80% of Utah’s entire populationFor the uneducated, geographically speaking, would the area be able to sustain a large enough attendance to sustain an 81 game regular season?
I like what you did there by aggregating different DMAs into each MSA (I think), but I tend to agree with @8slim that I would prefer to use raw MSA/CSA population (see my earlier post in this thread for those numbers). Either way, the rough order seems to be aligned. Also, a lack of geographical proximity to existing teams is a useful factor to consider (don't want to eat into existing fan bases) and conversely so is a general proximity to other "open" MSAs without a team (I think Portland and SLC suffer a bit from not really being able to capture any population centers outside their own metro). So the way I would think of potential market is: immediate metro area + nearby metros and micropolitan areas that would be reasonably be thought of as part of any new team's fanbase. That's of course a squishier concept, because that is partly a culture argument and sports fandom culture can indeed be changed.I like the cut of your jib here. Might be worth me posting my analysis of sport teams/franchises by city/MSA, so it's easier to spot the gaps / negative space.
View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-hpaBlQF9S8QoDHh333Q_FEtIs3qQVJZ8BdeQG9gIR0/edit#gid=1331925850
MLB summary notes:
- They're in the top 17 US DMAs already (+Toronto)
- #18 (Orlando / Daytona Beach / Melbourne) is basically owned by the Rays, gonna be hard to get someone in there
- Next 4 up are #20 Sacramento, #21 Charlotte, #22 Portland, and #25 Indianapolis. Those are 2 of your 4 proposed new cities.
- #27 Raleigh-Durham and #28 Nashville are next, covering another one of your nominees. Then #30 Salt Lake City before you get to #31 San Antonio.
- You have a long way down to #40 Austin, so only if you really think the two metro areas are going to "share" a team (in the way that Orlando and Tampa do, basically) can you add their sizes together and argue they "deserve it more" from a market perspective.
- It's easy to forget, but Montreal would be the #14 market if you include Canada. Failure of baseball in Montreal is a business failure, not a market-size failure.
Growth Rate of the region certainly matters, and from that perspective Charlotte and central Texas look better than otherwise - but let's look at this with some data from the BEA. I'll put in a table for all the MSAs lacking an MLB team all the way down to #44 Birmingham (itself far smaller than the currently smallest MLB region - #37 Cincinnati). By recent population growth (2020-2022), you have these top DMAs from that list:
1. Austin, 6.0%
2. Raleigh-Durham, 5.0%
3. Jacksonville, 4.4%
4. San Antonio, 3.8%
5. Charlotte, 3.6%
6. Orlando, 3.4%
And by 5-year projected (cumulative) population growth, here's your up-and-comers from our list:
1. Austin, 13.6%
2. Nashville, 9.4%
3. Raleigh-Durham, 9.3%
4. Orlando, 8.3%
5. Salt Lake City, 8.2%
6. Charlotte, 8.2%
And by GDP / Capita:
1. Salt Lake City, $93.8k
2. Hartford (!), $87.9k
3. Austin, $82.4k
4. Nashville, $81.0k
5. Charlotte, $77.0k
6. Indianapolis, $76.2k
7. Raleigh-Durham, $74.8k
8. Portland, $74.3k
9. Columbus, $71.8k
10. Sacramento, $66.6k (really falls off from here)
So based on those lists, it seems like Austin ought to be a top candidate in its own right, whether you can put it on the south of town by I-35 and attract more people from San Antonio or not. Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte are right behind. Orlando might be hopeless but Salt Lake City is not, and ranks out very well on incomes. And Portland is perhaps the worst prospect of the bunch you propose. So I'd say we should replace Portland on your list with Montreal, and if we're adding anyone else, you'd next go with SLC and the NC Triangle before we think about Portland.
Downtown Austin to downtown San Antonio is 80 miles, 1.5 hours drive (not including traffic delays).For me that means the raw potential market by size is: Montreal first (large market, not that near other fan bases, able to basically capture all of Quebec, plus has a baseball history), then one in North Carolina (to me whether it's in Charlotte or the Research Triangle is a toss-up; my sense from how the Panthers and the various college basketball teams are marketed and supported is that the Carolinas tend to function as a market). The Austin/San Antonio one is interesting but I would put it 3rd on my list of expansion teams as I think it's harder to make the case that they share a market. But I admit I don't know enough about that area - for example, in the NBA do fans in Austin largely cheer for the Spurs?
How can there be a new AAA facility in the same city where there's going to be a Major League Facility? Unless that minor league stadium quickly gets converted to a Major League one.In support of the prospects for MLB in Salt Lake City (and I’ve mentioned some of this in various other threads, but I feel like this is the “real” expansion thread moving forward);
The Miller family has been highly respected and successful as NBA and MiLB owners for a very long time. They have enough money, experience, stability and influence to join the MLB owners club. MLB cares, a LOT, about this stuff when they have the luxury to care.
They have a very attractive, viable pathway to a great stadium site vacant enough for a “The Battery” type development, but much closer to downtown than Atlanta’s version. Thats a huge plus.
The Millers just broke ground on a new AAA stadium in Daybreak, a pretty far southwest suburb, despite the fact that their existing park, while in a borderline sketchy neighborhood, is one of the most picturesque stadiums in baseball, more than perfectly suitable for fans and players and could be state-of-the-art with a modest renovation…I just don’t think they’d be doing that in the absence of some pretty strong indicators that their MLB bid is being looked upon favorably.
Salt Lake Bees - Daybreak
The Twins and their AAA affiliate St. Paul Saints are right across the river from each other, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.How can there be a new AAA facility in the same city where there's going to be a Major League Facility? Unless that minor league stadium quickly gets converted to a Major League one.
Yeah. I guess you're right. Carry on my wayward sons.The Twins and their AAA affiliate St. Paul Saints are right across the river from each other, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.
I agree gameday butts in seats is some function of immediate metro area population + a percentage of the larger regional fanbase that may make less regular trips, which is a function that decreases based on distance, as you suggest. But what NC has going for it compared to the San Antonio-Austin corridor is that there's a lot more people in the space between Charlotte and the Research Triangle.Downtown Austin to downtown San Antonio is 80 miles, 1.5 hours drive (not including traffic delays).
The middle of the Triangle area to downtown Charlotte is 152 miles, 2.25 hours drive (not including traffic delays). The Carolinas function as a market for the Panthers because they only play 8 or 9 home games a year, usually on Sunday afternoons. TV-wise, the Carolinas might function as a market for baseball, but for putting butts in seats probably not so much.
Distance | Statistical Area | Population as of 2019 |
<1.5 hours | Charlotte-Concord CSA | 3.2m |
1.5 hours | Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point CSA | 1.7m |
2.5 hours | Raleigh-Durham-Cary, NC CSA | 2.2m |
3 hours | Fayetteville-Lumberton-Pinehurst, NC CSA | 0.7m |
Distance | Statistical Area | Population as of 2019 |
<1.5 hours | San Antonio-New Braunfels-Pearsall, TX CSA | 2.6m |
1.5 hours | Austin-Round Rock, TX MSA | Kerrville-Fredericksburg, TX CSA | Uvalde, TX | 2.2m 0.08m 0.03m |
2.5 hours | Victoria-Port Lavaca, TX CSA | Corpus Christi-Kingsville-Alice, TX CSA | Beeville, TX μSA | 0.4m 0.5m 0.03m |
3 hours | Killeen-Temple, TX MSA Laredo, TX MSA | 0.7m 0.3m |
On the other hand, the then popular Denver Zephyrs (formerly Bears), who won the 1991 American Association title, moved to New Orleans in 1993 when the Rockies arrived (and set the highest single season attendance record in MLB history).Yeah. I guess you're right. Carry on my wayward sons.
Daybreak is in South Jordan, a 30 min, 20 mile drive from the proposed MLB park. I’d imagine it would be similar to other markets where the AAA affiliate is pretty close to MLB like Minnesota/St Paul, Atlanta/Gwinnet, Boston/Worcester, Seattle/Tacoma, Vegas A’s/Henderson, Houston/Sugar Land. Daybreak is smack dab in the middle of the land of big families - I imagine the AAA product would be sold to a very different market than the MLB.How can there be a new AAA facility in the same city where there's going to be a Major League Facility? Unless that minor league stadium quickly gets converted to a Major League one.