Draymond Green goes for 16/11/13 last night, and is averaging 12/8/3.4/1.5/1.4 for the year. He has a significant lead over Kawhi Leonard for first among SFs in Defensive RPM. He's third overall behind Duncan and Bogut.
NBA 2014-2015 Game Thread
- Thread starter ifmanis5
- Start date
Warriors crush the best team in the East. Curry with 32 points (on 18 shots), 12 assists and 0 turnovers -- first 30/10/0 line since 2009. Draymond with 16/11/13. Speights with 26 points in 25 minutes. Warriors as a team with 73 assists in their last two games. They've seriously tightened up the ship since the hell trip to LA.
Some highlights for people who don't stay up late enough to watch hoops at its most aesthetically pleasing:
Warriors 126, Raptors 105:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2vrQ7EtIE#t=245
Warriors 126, Sixers 86:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wsonzQJL4U
Some highlights for people who don't stay up late enough to watch hoops at its most aesthetically pleasing:
Warriors 126, Raptors 105:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2vrQ7EtIE#t=245
Warriors 126, Sixers 86:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wsonzQJL4U
A few things.
Kyle Lowry is pretty impressive - the guy is strong and his first step is so quick that he is very tough to defend. The Warriors keyed on him last night and limited him, yet he still had a decent night. That said, he couldn't hang with Curry though that is more a testament to Curry being "on" last night than it is to Lowry's (and his team's) defensive abilities. Curry was simply otherworldly last night.
Also, Greivis Vasquez was pretty impressive offensively - he has a very quick release and seems to have a knack for getting open. I would also say that Toronto had good ball movement, even if it didn't result in a more competitive game last night. Lou Williams had his looks but he also took some pretty bad shots. He is a chucker and not really a third scoring option which is kind of what he was last night. Obviously, DeRozan coming back next week should make this team a lot tougher. They are still may dark-horse out of the East.
Finally, Draymond Green is simply a joy to watch if you enjoy the nuts and bolts of good basketball. His energy is unending, he can defend virtually anyone well, has really improved his scoring and his basketball IQ is palpable each and every night. It also seems as if his teammates enjoy playing with him which I know may be meaningless in the scheme of things but I think it has some value, especially after the C's won with that squad in 2008 (thinking specifically of guys like James Posey and Eddie House here). If the Green somehow hits the market, I want the Celtics in on him as a building block. He is that good imho.
Kyle Lowry is pretty impressive - the guy is strong and his first step is so quick that he is very tough to defend. The Warriors keyed on him last night and limited him, yet he still had a decent night. That said, he couldn't hang with Curry though that is more a testament to Curry being "on" last night than it is to Lowry's (and his team's) defensive abilities. Curry was simply otherworldly last night.
Also, Greivis Vasquez was pretty impressive offensively - he has a very quick release and seems to have a knack for getting open. I would also say that Toronto had good ball movement, even if it didn't result in a more competitive game last night. Lou Williams had his looks but he also took some pretty bad shots. He is a chucker and not really a third scoring option which is kind of what he was last night. Obviously, DeRozan coming back next week should make this team a lot tougher. They are still may dark-horse out of the East.
Finally, Draymond Green is simply a joy to watch if you enjoy the nuts and bolts of good basketball. His energy is unending, he can defend virtually anyone well, has really improved his scoring and his basketball IQ is palpable each and every night. It also seems as if his teammates enjoy playing with him which I know may be meaningless in the scheme of things but I think it has some value, especially after the C's won with that squad in 2008 (thinking specifically of guys like James Posey and Eddie House here). If the Green somehow hits the market, I want the Celtics in on him as a building block. He is that good imho.
As of today, Atlanta's the best team in the East. And they really are an interesting team. Horford isn't even back to where he's been in the past yet, and they're just outside the top 10 offensively. Very balanced attack with Teague, Millsap, and Horford all scoring over 14 a game, and Korver stretching the floor shooting over 50% from 3.Sam Ray Not said:
Wow... Hawks take down Portland 115-107 in Rip City. Looks like they keyed on stopping Lillard tonight and succeeded. Atlanta had seven guys in double figures led by Millsap who had 27 points on 11-17 shooting. G&MB said it. The Hawks are the real deal Holyfield in the East right now.
Larry Sanders has quit, apparently.
Sources tell me that Bucks center Larry Sanders recently told some Bucks officials that he doesn't want to play basketball anymore.
— Gery Woelfel (@GeryWoelfel) January 5, 2015
Sources tell me that Bucks center Larry Sanders recently told some Bucks officials that he doesn't want to play basketball anymore.
— Gery Woelfel (@GeryWoelfel) January 5, 2015
Detroit get their 6th straight by winning in San Antonio with a Brandon Jennings buzzer beater.
Stan Van Gundy: GM of the year.
Stan Van Gundy: GM of the year.
Among centers, per 48 minutes, Gobert leads the league in blocks and is top ten in rebounds. He is top ten among centers in real +/-, and PER. He is a defensive menace. When Favors and he are on the floor together the Jazz are +8.3. I looked for, but couldn't find, opponent FG% in the paint with him on v. off the court because I saw it somewhere and it was something like a 15% swing. He obviously raw offensively but he's just 22 and Jazz fans are rightfully pretty stoked about how he has broken out this year.
The really young core of Hayward, Favors, Gobert, and Exum is progressing really nicely (see the 20 point win at Chicago last night as another example and they've won 7 of the last 11). There is tons of optimism right now in Jazzland, hopefully it will pan out in the next couple of years.
The really young core of Hayward, Favors, Gobert, and Exum is progressing really nicely (see the 20 point win at Chicago last night as another example and they've won 7 of the last 11). There is tons of optimism right now in Jazzland, hopefully it will pan out in the next couple of years.
Watching the Cavs at Warriors and Kevin Love is virtually invisible. I know its only one game, plus he is on a new team with a new system. But holy hell he is just nowhere in this game.
Then he proceeds to bury a ridiculously deep three to make me look like the idiot I am. Meanwhile, this is a pretty good game 93-88 Golden State with just under six minutes to go.
The Jazz are a fun team to follow these days. Even in their losses, they're almost always competitive - their record doesn't totally reflect their strength...and yeah, lots of youthful entusiasm, from Quin Snyder on down. They look like a team full of guys having fun.BigSoxFan said:
And then Golden State puts their foot on the gas and outscores Cleveland 19-6 the rest of the way to win 112-94 - this is their 14th straight home victory. They are now 29-5.
In fairness, I noticed Love when he tried to execute two low-post moves against Draymond Green and got them both sent back in his face.
Another day at the office for Green: 10 points, 11 boards, 8 assists, 3 blocks and a steal in 31 minutes.
Another day at the office for Green: 10 points, 11 boards, 8 assists, 3 blocks and a steal in 31 minutes.
First time they've been 24 games over .500 at any point in a season since (wait for it) 1992.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Sam Ray Not said:
Draymond Green is going to make a lot of money (Green!) this offseason. He isn't just my second favorite player on the Warriors. He is the second best all around player on the team. Period.
Also, because I love him, here is a quote from him about blocking Kevin Love last night (he and the Dubs did a good job of slowing Love):
When the bulls played the celtics I couldn't figure out why the bulls didn't go to Gasol every time. Apparently the tried that strategyKliq said:
Utah is impressive. They are really a plus jump shooter away from contending. And yes, I mean the West.
Question: why do teams not hack-a-Rondo? Dude is now 16-51 (.314!) from the charity stripe.
In other PG news: MVP Curry with 27 points on 16 shots, 11 assists, and a +17 in a tidy 29 minutes in SLC.
Ws with their 7th straight double-digit win.
In other PG news: MVP Curry with 27 points on 16 shots, 11 assists, and a +17 in a tidy 29 minutes in SLC.
Ws with their 7th straight double-digit win.
Sam Ray Not said:
Tonight I fell in love with Rudy Gobert. The kid is a beast. Unfortunately he was facing a Warriors team that goes so deep that their second unit would likely contend for a playoff spot in the East.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Agreed -- I've been fascinated with "Gobzilla" for a while now. On the Warriors boards (Golden State of Mind, e.g.) it's generally seen that one of Bob Myers' few missteps as GM was drafting Nemanja Nedovic (who's now playing in Europe) over Gobert in the '13 draft. (The Ws had the bought the #26 pick but traded down to #30 to draft Ninja; Gobert was picked #27). It isn't just hindsight, either: given Bogut's fragility, a lot of fans at the time of the draft were questioning the wisdom of picking the semi-athletic 6'-3" combo guard over the 7'-2" true C with the nine-mile wingspan.
Even in his current still-raw state, Gobert has been vastly outplaying Enes Kanter this season. Last night he was a +6 in his 32 minutes played; Kanter was -27 in his 32 minutes. I knew about his ridiculous rebounding and shotblocking, but last night he opened my eyes with 3 or 4 sweet Bogut-like passes from the high post. Man, he'd look good in a Ws uniform with the young core going forward. Jazz fans should be psyched.
Ah well ... in the previous draft, Myers did a bit better: Barnes (#7), Ezeli (#30), Green (#35!!),and Kuzmic (#52). You can make a case than in Green and Barnes the Ws snagged the #4 and 5 best players in that draft (after Davis, Lillard and Drummond). Hard to get too upset with how Myers has built the team when they're 30-5, young, deep as hell, and leading the league in pretty much everything.
Throwing it out there for DeJesus and other Ws fans: if for whatever reason Brooklyn was interested in taking on the last year of David Lee's contract, would you trade Lee for (what's left of) Kevin Garnett?
Part of me doesn't want to mess with a thing on the Ws, but given (1) the impressive play of Speights, Green and Barnes at PF; (2) the fragility of Bogut and Ezeli; and (3) the impending pricy contract extensions of Barnes and Green, I'm intrigued by KG's expiring contract, high hoops IQ and passing, toughness, championship bona fides, and ability to play the 5 when the Warriors go 4-out (which is a lot of the time these days).
Not sure why Brooklyn would pull the trigger (not really sure why Brooklyn does anything) except that maybe they don't want to bottom out completely. Lee is 31, well liked in NYC, and can still play.
Part of me doesn't want to mess with a thing on the Ws, but given (1) the impressive play of Speights, Green and Barnes at PF; (2) the fragility of Bogut and Ezeli; and (3) the impending pricy contract extensions of Barnes and Green, I'm intrigued by KG's expiring contract, high hoops IQ and passing, toughness, championship bona fides, and ability to play the 5 when the Warriors go 4-out (which is a lot of the time these days).
Not sure why Brooklyn would pull the trigger (not really sure why Brooklyn does anything) except that maybe they don't want to bottom out completely. Lee is 31, well liked in NYC, and can still play.
Last Ws tidbit, from Chris Palmer: in the last 30 years, there have been 6 games of 27 pts / 11 asts in 30 minutes or less. Curry has 4 in the last 10 months.
Don't forget Justin Holiday. He's probably better than a good number of NBA starting wings, even if he's only wing #5 on the Warriors.
I'd gladly take Livingston-Barbosa-Holiday-Iguodala-Lee-Speights over the front six of say, Brooklyn or Charlotte. (Especially if I could have Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green and Bogut coming off the bench).
Are you still sticking to your guns on these predictions?
I'd gladly take Livingston-Barbosa-Holiday-Iguodala-Lee-Speights over the front six of say, Brooklyn or Charlotte. (Especially if I could have Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green and Bogut coming off the bench).
Are you still sticking to your guns on these predictions?
That is a ridiculous statement. Speights and company look better than what they really are because they are playing with smart, talented teammates. I am not presuming that if you started them, you would have the rest of W's coming off the bench, I am presuming that if you started those five, you would have bench players behind them that in theory would be worse players than Speights, Livingston, Iggy, Barbosa and Lee. That is a terrible starting lineup, with no one protecting the rim and five below average three point shooters. That is awful, even bad teams in East would be able to eat them alive. To insist that they would be better than teams like Charlotte and Brooklyn (no powerhouses in their own right) is completely disregarding the fact that the bench unit often plays with very, very good players, and that they would be on their own in the East.
Justin Holiday might be better than some starting wings, but he is going to have to play more than 10 minutes a game to prove it.
I was wrong about a lot of things about the Warriors, I was scared about their rookie head coach, their brutal competition in the West, and the fact they were relying a fragile player to protect their paint. I was wrong about those things. I still wouldn't pick them to win the championship though, since no team wins the championship with a core of players who have never been to the CF's before as a team, save for massive turnarounds like the Celtics in 2008.
Justin Holiday might be better than some starting wings, but he is going to have to play more than 10 minutes a game to prove it.
I was wrong about a lot of things about the Warriors, I was scared about their rookie head coach, their brutal competition in the West, and the fact they were relying a fragile player to protect their paint. I was wrong about those things. I still wouldn't pick them to win the championship though, since no team wins the championship with a core of players who have never been to the CF's before as a team, save for massive turnarounds like the Celtics in 2008.
Sam Ray Not said:
I think the Warriors would make this trade in a minute but I am not sure why the Nets would. I am probably the lone holdout in the "David Lee is still a pretty damn good ballplayer offensively and a great team guy" camp but even I recognize the Nets, who are currently on the block, need a lot of unfucking of their roster and picks to dig out of the hole they are in. Lee does nothing for them. Not to go off on a tangent but 15 or 20 years ago, David Lee would have been a much bigger deal for the league given his skill-set but the guy is effectively a dinosaur in some ways. Its too bad because I can think of few NBA players who have his moves around the basket (with both hands) - he reminds me a bit of McHale (in the poor man's sense) albeit less bony and a bit less feisty.
Kliq said:
It was a bit of hyperbole but lets take a look at the Warriors second unit vs the Nets first one, using PER, Off Rtg and D Rtg I understand that these stats are flawed, some players have smaller sample sizes (David Lee) and the Nets recently adjusted their line-ups but lets just see how they stack up:
BKNY (PER/ORtg/DRtg) GSW(PER/ORtg/DRtg)
PF - Garnett 14.9/99/99 PF- Lee 20.2/107/96
C - Plumlee 20.5/112/101 C - Speights 21.5/112/101
SF - Johnson 15.2/104/108 SF - Iguodala 10.5/106/102
SG - Bodanovic 9.1/99/109 SG - Holiday 15.8/100/108
PG - Jack 13/97/106 PG - Livingston 12/103/103
Again, this is just a time wasting exercise but the difference isn't as massive as you might suggest based on these metrics. I agree that this GSW squad might find it hard to score from outside but Holiday is quickly becoming a passable if not decent "three and D" guy. Lee vs Garnett is interesting if only because KG is close to cooked, I take Plumlee over Speights and Johnson over Iguoadala but the backcourt goes to the Dubs based on this set of players. I also am fully ready to admit that this exercise is futile because of the fluid nature of NBA rotations as well as the fact that match-ups are a big deal. But I don't see this Nets squad killing this Warriors line-up.
Not to belabor the "the Warriors' bench could make the playoffs in the East" hypothetical, but I don't see how it's that far-fetched.
• Iguodala (30) is by many metrics the best perimeter defender in the NBA -- indeed, by RAPM, he rated as the top player in the NBA full-stop at the end of last season, ahead of #2 Chris Paul and #3 LeBron.
• Lee (31) is a two-time all-star who is averaging 18.6 pts on .570 ts / 10.4 boards / 2.9 last per 36 this season -- more or less the same numbers he has put up like clockwork throughout his career.
• Livingston (29) was a highly coveted FA who was a key part (+4.8 per 100 poss.) of last year's solid Brooklyn playoff team. He creates all kinds of favorable matchups by being able to smoothly run your offense while also having a seven-foot wingspan that allowed him to guard LeBron is last year's playoffs.
• I hate PER, but by PER Marreese Speights is currently tied with Zach Randolph as the #23 rated player in the NBA. 24 pts / 10 reb per 36 on solid efficiency will (.566 ts) will do that.
Throw in Barbosa, Holiday, Ezeli (your rim defense), and and pick your top 5. That's a legit team. Sure, they're all made better by occasionally playing alongside Curry, but you can say that about anybody. Speights has been an aberration this year, but all the other vets -- Lee, Iguodala, Barbosa, Livingston -- have been highly productive in their careers with or without Curry. In fact, Iguodala throughout his career has typically been the the Curry-type guy who makes everyone else around him better and whose presence on the floor correlates closely to winning basketball games. Look at what happened to Philly when he left, Denver when he arrived, Denver when he left, and the Warriors when he arrived.
Put simply: setting aside $$ and looking at talent alone, I wouldn't trade those seven guys for the starters of Brooklyn, Indiana, or Charlotte (one of whom will likely make the playoffs). I think you can make a case that Iguodala is as good or better than anyone on those teams (except Paul George.)
Anyway, as DJBMH says, it's "a time-wasting exercise" since the Warriors will never have to run out their benchmob full-time against anyone's starters. (Indeed, one of the many great changes implemented by the Kerr/Gentry/Adams braintrust is staggered rotations and the elimination of Jackson's wholesale "hockey substitutions" that routinely killed the team last year). But the fact you could even have a discussion about it shows how impressively deep their roster is.
• Iguodala (30) is by many metrics the best perimeter defender in the NBA -- indeed, by RAPM, he rated as the top player in the NBA full-stop at the end of last season, ahead of #2 Chris Paul and #3 LeBron.
• Lee (31) is a two-time all-star who is averaging 18.6 pts on .570 ts / 10.4 boards / 2.9 last per 36 this season -- more or less the same numbers he has put up like clockwork throughout his career.
• Livingston (29) was a highly coveted FA who was a key part (+4.8 per 100 poss.) of last year's solid Brooklyn playoff team. He creates all kinds of favorable matchups by being able to smoothly run your offense while also having a seven-foot wingspan that allowed him to guard LeBron is last year's playoffs.
• I hate PER, but by PER Marreese Speights is currently tied with Zach Randolph as the #23 rated player in the NBA. 24 pts / 10 reb per 36 on solid efficiency will (.566 ts) will do that.
Throw in Barbosa, Holiday, Ezeli (your rim defense), and and pick your top 5. That's a legit team. Sure, they're all made better by occasionally playing alongside Curry, but you can say that about anybody. Speights has been an aberration this year, but all the other vets -- Lee, Iguodala, Barbosa, Livingston -- have been highly productive in their careers with or without Curry. In fact, Iguodala throughout his career has typically been the the Curry-type guy who makes everyone else around him better and whose presence on the floor correlates closely to winning basketball games. Look at what happened to Philly when he left, Denver when he arrived, Denver when he left, and the Warriors when he arrived.
Put simply: setting aside $$ and looking at talent alone, I wouldn't trade those seven guys for the starters of Brooklyn, Indiana, or Charlotte (one of whom will likely make the playoffs). I think you can make a case that Iguodala is as good or better than anyone on those teams (except Paul George.)
Anyway, as DJBMH says, it's "a time-wasting exercise" since the Warriors will never have to run out their benchmob full-time against anyone's starters. (Indeed, one of the many great changes implemented by the Kerr/Gentry/Adams braintrust is staggered rotations and the elimination of Jackson's wholesale "hockey substitutions" that routinely killed the team last year). But the fact you could even have a discussion about it shows how impressively deep their roster is.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I love the Mt. Hood reference (assuming you're talking about the golf course in Melrose). My father grew up on the course, and my grandfather still plays three to five times a week, weather permitting.
ElUno20 said:
I only watched through about 2 1/2 quarters but wasn't at all surprised this morning to see they came out on top. Portland came out sloppy and very sluggish by comparison. LAC scored a few early buckets on fast breaks off made baskets by Portland. Seemed like Aldridge 1 on 1 or bust for Portland. Batum might as well have stayed home.
Zach Lowe started it, but time for everybody to get on the Jusuf Nurkic bandwagon. The Nuggets rookie has delighted NBA fans already this season, whether it was by blocking shots or talking shit to Boogie, he has been a bonus to anybody who loves the NBA. But nothing compares to his origin story. According to Denver broadcasters, Jusuf Nurkic's father is 7 feet tall and weighs 400 lbs. He is a cop in Bosnia and Herzegovina. At one time, it was reported in a newspaper that he beat up 14 people at once.
The Nurkic family made there first voyage to America on Wednesday, to see their son play basketball.
Papa Nurkic is in the house.
The Nurkic family made there first voyage to America on Wednesday, to see their son play basketball.
Papa Nurkic is in the house.
ElUno20 said:
I don't know. Every time the Clipps have a set of good games and seem set to affirm they're a top tier team, they have a bad loss (per getting whipped by Miami). They looked awesome vs the Blazers and the game was playoff like, but the standards are so high right now. Same as really all the other teams out West except maybe GS: the Rockets, Grizzlies, Thunder, and Mavs have all had stretches along with the Clippers where you think they're right there with the Warriors at the top of the heap. But then they fall off for a game or two. Probably just a reflection of it being the regular season and hard to keep energy/focus, as well as just how damn difficult it is to keep up in the West.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cavs beat the Clippers just like I could see the Thunder taking the Dubs tonight after getting whipped by the Rockets last night. Houston really looked great and seem to me to be a team that is nicely balanced and best positioned to challenge GS. Josh Smith off the bench is pretty effective and the starting 5 complement each other nicely -- well defined roles and Howard looks to be all the way back.
Is it just me, or is this the most meaningful NBA regular season in a long time? Usually the regular season just seems like a long prelude to the playoffs -- sure it's interesting to see who wins out in the scrambles for 7 or 8 seeds, but not terribly significant as the true contenders are pretty well established before the year even starts. This year the west is a scramble and the east is topsy turvy -- makes the regular season actually interesting.
The west has made it that way. It's basically like college football, epl, etc. You cannot afford to lose games in the west. Period. So every game, even the ones against the scrubs matter and require a top notch effort.
The warriors dont want it with the thunder in the playoffs. as great as klay and steph are they arent on the same level as KD and Westbrook at full strength, imo.
The warriors dont want it with the thunder in the playoffs. as great as klay and steph are they arent on the same level as KD and Westbrook at full strength, imo.