The top of that 1978 draft wasn't that great. Kareem was Finals MVP in 1985. Not sure I agree with the bolded.
NBA 75: Ranking The 75 Best Players in History
- Thread starter DGreenwood
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Kareem at #3 or #4 (depending on how you feel about Bill Russell) is the most secure I feel about any individual ranking here. He matched incredible longevity with being a top 3 player through his age 29 season. He's like Giannis if Giannis continued his peak for another few years and then tacked on another 10 solid years after that. That resume puts him over any other player in the top 10, but— as others have said— it's hard to build an argument for him for team success over Russell, full resume over LeBron, or peak dominance over Jordan.
IMO, there's no place in the top 8 who were widely considered stat-obsessed, selfish, or uncommitted, no matter how talented. I can understand having Shaq, Kobe or Wilt in the top 12, but not in the top 8.
Underrated:
IMO, there's no place in the top 8 who were widely considered stat-obsessed, selfish, or uncommitted, no matter how talented. I can understand having Shaq, Kobe or Wilt in the top 12, but not in the top 8.
Underrated:
- Among Malones, Moses should be higher than Karl on any list. I feel the current ranking gets the longevity-vs-peak argument wrong.
- Havlicek, for obvious reasons: it's doesn't feel fun to vote for him unless you're old enough to remember him (which I don't). I don't understand the argument for Stockton over him, for example, when both have similar claims (longevity over dominance) with Hondo having the better all-around career. (Edit: actually, Stockton had more of an edge in terms of games played than I'd realized— but I stand by the overall point, especially when factoring in the rings).
- Elgin Baylor and Jerry West. West's numbers are insane. I would probably put him over Kobe.
- Damian Lillard. The gap between him and Tracy McGrady should not be 13 spots.
- Giannis. He's well on his way, but give me a break. I would put Scottie Pippen over him today.
- Reggie Miller: basically the same player as Ray Allen, who is 5 spots lower. Allen arguably better when you consider the rings. I think Miller is clearly not as good as Westbrook (1 spot ahead) and worse than the next 3 players: Gary Payton, Kevin McHale and Paul Pierce. Edit: I'll go one step further: would Reggie even be in the top 60 if he'd had the exact same career but the Pacers had never played the Knicks in the playoffs?
- Wilt and Shaq, as discussed above.
- Julius Erving: a phenomenon, no doubt, and an incredibly important player. But was the NBA career all that great? His MVP selection is one of the flimsiest in league history.
- David Robinson: a great teammate and a great player whom nobody was ever scared of. 20 seems awfully high, given the "no fear" factor. Then again, the statistical resume and hardware are amazing.
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Just digging through some classic NBA games, stumbled on Game 6 of the 1974 NBA finals. Some legendary players in that game.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3b2E7FaPR8
Go to the 19:27 mark. A Buck gets the ball and dribbles down the left side towards the basket. Gets whistled for a carry. I mean, you watch it and by today's rules, it's not even remotely close to a carry. You see ten times worse than this on literally every possession in today's NBA.
But they made the call and nobody argued it.
Man, the game sure has changed. LOL
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3b2E7FaPR8
Go to the 19:27 mark. A Buck gets the ball and dribbles down the left side towards the basket. Gets whistled for a carry. I mean, you watch it and by today's rules, it's not even remotely close to a carry. You see ten times worse than this on literally every possession in today's NBA.
But they made the call and nobody argued it.
Man, the game sure has changed. LOL
My brother once said that if you had a 21 game series between a great team from today and great team from the 70's played under 70's rules......the great team from the 70's would win the first bunch of games, say six or eight.....but eventually the great team from today would figure out how not to travel every other possession and win all the rest.
Well with 70s rules, there's no three point shot, so SO much of what makes today's game what it is is completely eliminated. Steph bombing from 25 feet only counts as 2 points, taking away the modern players' greatest advantage.
I do think today's players are more athletic and are better shooters, but I don't know that they're more skilled in dribbling, once you require them to play by 70s rules. So they do probably win a 21 game series, but I don't know that they'd win all the rest of the games.
But that's a really interesting premise and he might not be wrong.
Yeah, and how to play physically. But it IS true about palming and traveling in today’s game. I had a hard time even seeing where the carry was in that clip!
Today's players are so much stronger and better conditioned. I think that the theory about losing the first couple and sweeping the rest is pretty accurate.
Watching basketball in the 1970s was like watching the G league now. Sure, it was more physical, but the defense was not nearly as quick. It was dribble up, take half the shot clock maybe, launch, repeat.
Bob McAdoo has 934 field goals in 1976. 37 guys has over 500, 24 over 600.
Last year, 11 over 600, 1 over 700, 22 over 500.
And it wasn't better shooting. 13 guys shot over 50% from the field that year. 13. Last year, 40 did.
Today's players would lock down teams from the 1970s.
At the end of 1988, there is no question that most observers would have had Bird a notch ahead of Magic, but Magic had three more great seasons from 1989-1991 with two more finals appearances. When Bird returned from his heel injury in 1990 he was diminished - good to very good, but far from his peak - and the Celtics were mostly an afterthought. So, I think Magic "passed Bird" from a career standpoint during those last few years.
Apex Bird was better than apex Magic, though.
The thing is, Bird was a notch ahead of Magic every year from 1979 to 1988. So I agree Magic caught or passed ihm from 1989 to 1991, but both Bird's peak and overall record is better. If Magic hadn't gotten sick there would certainly be a possibility he'd have passed Bird---he had a lot more in the tank than Bird did by 1991, as you note. But that's not what happened.
Yes, but Bird was three years older so comparing his 1979-1980 to Magic’s isn’t exactly apples to apples. Magic’s 1982-1991 matches up pretty well to Bird’s 1979-1988 and his 1979-1982 is probably better than Bird’s 1990-1992.
It’s really close and, as you say, from 1979-1988 no one reasonably believed Magic was better - Bird was ahead of him in the MVP voting every year but one. But Magic’s peak came a little later and in each of his last three years he was in the top 2 in the MVP voting while Larry slid from the game’s elite.
Like I said, at his very best I think Bird was better than Magic at his very best.
Bird was also a better coach and front office exec.
#3 is the big reveal.
Fwiw, I think that they're going to go Jordan at 1, Lebron at 2, Kareem at 3. The list has been fairly free of controversy. But I'm not 100% sure.
Fwiw, I think that they're going to go Jordan at 1, Lebron at 2, Kareem at 3. The list has been fairly free of controversy. But I'm not 100% sure.
I’d bet a lot that Kareem is #3, and then the big reveal will be Jordan vs. LeBron for GOAT.
Yeah you're probably right. I quibble with some of the rankings, but they've done a fantastic job overall imo.
