NY rotation 2015

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jon abbey

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With the Eovaldi trade and the Capuano signing, maybe it's time to start this annual thread a few months early...
 
The current rotation is:

Tanaka
Pineda
Sabathia
Eovaldi
Capuano
 
Nova may be back around late May or June if all goes well, obviously you can't count on him but he would be a nice addition if he came back.
 
Before the Eovaldi deal, earlier this week, Cashman listed other rotation candidates:
 
"Cashman specifically named Adam Warren, Bryan Mitchell, Chase Whitley and Jose De Paula as rotation possibilities. Esmil Rogers, Cashman said, could also emerge as a rotation candidate."
 
I think they will add to that with another AAAA type or two, they need some more depth in Scranton probably and some the above listed guys will end up in the bullpen. Banuelos and Severino are also lurking at the fringes, if they are dominant and there are enough injuries.
 

jon abbey

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Keith Law, post-Eovaldi trade:
 
"The Yankees seem to be inching toward a full rotation of their own, although they'll be counting on CC Sabathia and Masahiro Tanaka to come back healthy and produce right away, as well as on Michael Pineda to make 20-25 starts. While GM Brian Cashman appeared to throw water on the rumors that they'll bid for Max Scherzer, then to cover them with a lid to cut off their oxygen supply, it makes far more sense for the Yankees to sign Scherzer than for them to pursue any other starter. He'd make them five to six wins better in 2015, minimizing the use of replacement-level options like Capuano or Adam Warren. While the back end of any Scherzer contract will probably be ugly, I'd be willing to bet hard on him delivering 12-plus wins in the first three years. It's their fastest route back to contention and wouldn't cost them any of the prospects in their recovering farm system. The Yankees' financial advantage has been blunted of late because fewer elite players reach free agency; until the Aaron Judges and the Greg Birds reach the Bronx, it is imperative that the Yankees use their resources when an elite player actually does hit the open market. With Jon Lester signed, Scherzer is the only such player remaining."
 

jon abbey

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Kuroda not an option anymore, so I thought I'd try to make a guess at the AAA rotation incedibly prematurely, using Cashman's comments above and the current 40 man roster, maybe it's:
 
Jose De Paula, Bryan Mitchell, Chase Whitley, Manny Banuelos, ????
 
Adam Warren is the 5th or 6th best in-house option (along with Capuano), hopefully this year they stretch him out in AAA as the 6th guy, as he's largely wasted at the back of the bullpen given their other options IMO. 
 

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jon abbey said:
The current rotation is:

Tanaka
Pineda
Sabathia
Eovaldi
Capuano
 
 
 
The names are good, but I just don't see how you can count on getting enough innings from those guys.  I would be surprised if any of them had more the 180 innings.  
 

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SaveBooFerriss said:
 
The names are good, but I just don't see how you can count on getting enough innings from those guys.  I would be surprised if any of them had more the 180 innings.  
 
 
Eovaldi had 199.2 last year. I see no reason why he can't do 180.
 

SaveBooFerriss

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Wingack said:
 
 
Eovaldi had 199.2 last year. I see no reason why he can't do 180.
 
Sure, but before last year, his high was 119.1.  No way Capuano gets 180.  Odds are at least one of the other four hits 180.  Odds are at least one or two of the four don't get to 100 innings.  There is just a ton of health risk in that rotation.      
 

jon abbey

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NY for once seems to be trying to prioritize putting some younger pieces in place over maximizing how competitive the team will be this season.
 

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jon abbey said:
RAB seems to think Bryan Mitchell is the current 6th starter. NY really needs a AAAA SP or two in AAA:

http://riveraveblues.com/2015/01/ranking-40-man-roster-17-19-113364/
 
It seems like the Yankees never have trouble signing NRI starters from other teams after they've been cut at the end of spring training. I imagine they'll snag a few guys at the end of March, and one of them will probably end up being surprisingly useful (see Capuano last year, etc.).
 

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Could someone please write twenty paragraphs breaking down Scott Baker's entire career so I can not read about the Super Bowl anymore? Time for baseball. Thank you.
 

jon abbey

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Five strong innings from Warren against Detroit today, he would seem to be the current front runner to start the season as the #5 starter.
 

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I am extremely high on your rotation.
 
Sabathia's had one arm injury since he broke into the show. He was shelved for 15 days in 2012 with elbow soreness. He's tallied basically 200 innings every season this century, excepting last year, due to knee problems. He's fat now, that's good. He's sitting 93 this spring, fast as he's ever thrown, with one radar gun pegging him at 96! Velocity is perhaps the lone meaningful spring training stat.
 
That's the least of it. I've posted elsewhere on this site, to generally negative fanfare, my belief that fastballs as a pitch are overused. Well. It seems CC is just a hell of a pitcher. In response to declining MPH he cut his fourseam usage in half and threw three times the number of sinkers. Splendid idea. 2014 offers a limited sample (798 pitches), but Sabathia's swinging strike rate leapt from 9.6% to 10.5%. It was 46 innings, to be sure—his ERA eclipsed 5—but the SIERA was his lowest ever. CC Sabathia, I think, will garner a Cy Young vote.
 
Then there's Pineda, who is exceptional. Pineda's whiff rate across 1140 pitches would've ranked eleventh among qualified starters and tied Strasburg's. We can comfortably surmise that his averageish K rate is due for some pretty severe positive regression... his SIERA, bloody 3.33 anyhow. He pounds the everliving hell out of the strike zone and walks no one. He's a righty with a flyball bent, and your stadium is a travesty. But HR/FB juju, a clean bill of health, and some subtlety doctoring the baseball are all that's separating Pineda from the game's elite.
 
Chase Whitley is very good. His swinging strike rate lags 0.1% behind Pineda's! At AAA his whiff rates have been dizzyingly strong, and he's offered a groundball profile there as well. His Zone% is rather low, but first-pitch strikes are far more important, also a disparate skill. Whitley was a shade above average in that regard across 330 batters faced. He's the real deal. At some point you guys will come to—not "love" him, certainly, as none of you have hearts, but you'll be highly appreciative of his efforts.
 
If Nate Eovaldi's splitter is for real, that guy could really be something. He's been toying with it all March: 9 IP, 1 ER, 9 K, 0 BB. His UCL tear might be hailed as tragedy.
 
I genuinely believe Masahiro Tanaka is either your fourth- or fifth-best starter pending the previous item. Hitters were Travis Hafner in '06 against his fastball. They were Albert Pujols in 2010 versus the curve. '13 Edwin Encarnacion with the sinker. That's 175, 164, and 144 wRC+ respectively. Randy Wolf against the splitter, though. (Slider was good. A stone's throw from average according to this.) He's entirely dependent upon that splitfinger, which is double plus ungood. (Notice the use of Ingsoc when I speak from the Yankees' perspective.)
 
Tanaka threw the splitter outside the strike zone a blasphemous 71% of the time. Hitters chased more than half! He would've thrown the eighth-fewest strikes among qualified starters, sporting the eight-best K rate, the seventh-best walk rate. (Second-worst line drive rate.) I dunno about y'all, but I give big league hitters a ton of credit. They've had a year now to scout that one pitch. Tanaka has Hideo Nomo written all over him and I think you're better served subsidizing a trade.
 
Bullpen's great, though. You have two of the ten best relievers in baseball, to say nothing of Carpenter and Shreve, who are both excellent. (As an aside: How in the hell did you parlay Manny Banuelos, he of the 4.07 minor league SIERA, into two firemen!?! We turned Anthony Ranaudo—consecutive sub-3 ERA seasons—into Robbie Ross.) Win Probability Added has me believing relief pitchers to be fundamentally undervalued, which would explain why Billy Beane is so eager to pay them eight-figure sums. When I picture the Yankees bullpen, I imagine a boot stamping on a human face—all season.
 
Your fucking offense is sneaky-great as well. I'm just carrying on, not making separate posts. Seven above-average hitters by my estimation, plus Stephen Drew at second. Didi Gregorius had a .336 xBABIP. He became a star in my OOTP save, and I was pleased. Seemed legit.
 
You have one of the absolute best defenses. McCann is comfortably plus framing pitches. It would surprise me not at all to see the Yankees take the division. I think 100 wins is within reach. I can hear derisive commentary now. Go, Red Sox.
 
 
 
Feeling poorly of late—amazing how therapeutic it can be to laud the Yankees.
 

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That has to be the most well thought out, greatest reverse jinx post in the Yankees sub-forum, ever.

Great post. I hope you're right.
 

jon abbey

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Tanaka is going to be a pretty different pitcher this year, I'm guessing. His velocity seems to be down, and I'm guessing he will try to get away with even fewer FBs in the strike zone. 
 
Whitley isn't really a starter, he is a 4-5 inning guy tops, it seems. I think Warren will be the 5th starter and if Whitley makes the team, it will be as a second long reliever. 
 
I am more optimistic about Sabathia than I expected (although not as optimistic as you yet), but the velocity readings so far are definitely nice to see.
 
Also I am very dubious about the NY offense, but that is for a different topic. 
 

jon abbey

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Heh, Cashman quotes are the best:
 
https://twitter.com/FeinsandNYDN/status/580752390271426560
 

jon abbey

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Yep, same order as that post with Warren in for Capuano (although they didn't officially announce Warren yet, it's obvious):

Tanaka
Pineda
CC
Eovaldi
Warren
 

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Health concerns aside (and of course those are huge concerns), with only a modest bounceback from Sabathia, I like that rotation quite a lot.
 

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jon abbey said:
Yep, same order as that post with Warren in for Capuano (although they didn't officially announce Warren yet, it's obvious):
Tanaka
Pineda
CC
Eovaldi
Warren
Pineda might be their best pitcher this season. Hard to argue with his stuff and his command of the strike zone.
 

terrynever

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jon abbey said:
Tanaka is going to be a pretty different pitcher this year, I'm guessing. His velocity seems to be down, and I'm guessing he will try to get away with even fewer FBs in the strike zone. 
You got that right. 7 hits in 4.1 innings against the Twins' second string today. One strikeout. Tanaka reached back twice for more velocity in the fourth inning with runners on base and touched 92.

It will be interesting to see what the adrenalin of Opening Day does to his velo. My sense is he is pitching within himself, not wanting to overtax the elbow. Yanks seem intent on giving him an extra day's rest whenever possible this season, something they toyed with last year.

Tanaka is pitching like a No. 3 right now. Pineda and Eovaldi have the best stuff on the staff and Nova should give them another hard thrower when he returns in June.
 

jon abbey

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I saw a bunch of those hits, Noonan and Refsnyder didn't do him any favors. The first-string Yankee defense will cover up some mistakes this year, today's defense did not. 
 

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jon abbey said:
I saw a bunch of those hits, Noonan and Refsnyder didn't do him any favors. The first-string Yankee defense will cover up some mistakes this year, today's defense did not.
Two early errors added to Tanaka's pitch count. A lot of the hits were soft but the guy who homered also hit a long foul homer the time before.

Let's see how Tanaka looks in another month. With Nova coming back in June, Yanks have some rotation depth, assuming CC can at least accumulate innings in the 4 slot. If he is wildly inconsistent, that creates more problems.
 

jon abbey

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I thought it was a good sign that Tanaka had higher velocity in the later innings when he went to it, but I agree that he's NY's #3 right now. 
 

jon abbey

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Wow:

"Tanaka, Pineda, Eovaldi have combined for 44 Ks, 2 BBs in 44 IP this spring. "
 
https://twitter.com/Chris_Toman/status/582999714863263744
 

jon abbey

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CC getting hammered again today, WAS has 2 in the first inning so far. 
 

jon abbey

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After giving up 3 in the 1st, CC actually pulled it together and pitched into the sixth without giving up another run, so an OK outing overall in the end. 
 

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jon abbey said:
After giving up 3 in the 1st, CC actually pulled it together and pitched into the sixth without giving up another run, so an OK outing overall in the end.
CC found his delivery and got into a groove today after a brutal first when he hung sliders, left fast balls up and over the plate, and threw his patented up and away heater two feet outside. He still competes hard. Got the last out in the fifth when he left a pitch up and the batter hit a screaming liner right at the CF. CC yelled an F-bomb into his glove that I could hear in Rhode Island.
 

jon abbey

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I think we talked about this already, but his four-seamer got hammered last year, as Mike Napoli certainly remembers. The main reason his peak velocity is down is he's chosen to largely replace his 4-seamer with a 2-seamer, which he may have decided to do anyway even if he had no arm issues. He'll be interesting to watch in real games, certainly. 
 

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jon abbey said:
I think we talked about this already, but his four-seamer got hammered last year, as Mike Napoli certainly remembers. The main reason his peak velocity is down is he's chosen to largely replace his 4-seamer with a 2-seamer, which he may have decided to do anyway even if he had no arm issues. He'll be interesting to watch in real games, certainly.
Tanaka is going to pitch within himself. Doubt we will see him reach back for something extra this season, as he did in previous seasons. Girardi will give him an extra day of rest whenever possible. So this is the trade off. Yanks get a limited Tanaka instead of none at all. He seems to have made this decision on his own. We shall see. Ironic that Yanks have two hard throwers who can pick him up and maybe a third if Nova comes back in June at full steam.
 

jon abbey

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One thing to keep in mind when evaluating NY's rotation results going forward is that I think the real pecking order right now is Pineda, Eovaldi, Tanaka, CC and Warren. Much like Tanaka was the real ace until getting hurt last year even though I think he didn't start until the 4th or 5th game of the year, Pineda is NY's ace going into this season. 
 
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Yankee fans, do you get the sense that this Tanaka thing is likely to be a career-long, ongoing SOP re: switching to a 2-seamer, not reaching back for something extra, etc...? Or is that just temporary as he continues to come back from his injury?

EDIT: Tried to spell career without the a.
 

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Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
Yankee fans, do you get the sense that this Tanaka thing is likely to be a career-long, ongoing SOP re: switching to a 2-seamer, not reaching back for something extra, etc...? Or is that just temporary as he continues to come back from his injury?

EDIT: Tried to spell career without the a.
Using the two seamer doesn't bother me. MLB hitters knocked his four seamer around once they got a good look at it last year.  He was already mixing in more sinkers before he got hurt last year and it worked. I checked his pitch usage and results on Brooks Baseball and you can see him moving away from 4-seam fastballs as his results got worse with it. It wasn't a huge difference, but he obviously got a little more careful.  I do think that it is in his personality to go after hitters and not nibble.  Last year, he would reach back for more sometimes.  I am not worried yet, but I do hope he maintains his aggressiveness and is willing to throw his best fastball in two strike counts.
 

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The thing that jumps out to me about Tanaka's pitch usage yesterday is that he threw very few fastballs of any type (about 35%) and a lot more sliders (about 32%) and a few more splitters (30%) than he averaged last year.  That might be just a one day thing, having better feel for some pitches than others and using what was working best.  Or he could be transitioning into more of a junkballer as his fastball velocity goes down and that pitch becomes less effective.
 

jon abbey

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He was very effective in spring training and TOR has one of the toughest lineups, I'm not too worried about him yet. 
 

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
The thing that jumps out to me about Tanaka's pitch usage yesterday is that he threw very few fastballs of any type (about 35%) and a lot more sliders (about 32%) and a few more splitters (30%) than he averaged last year.  That might be just a one day thing, having better feel for some pitches than others and using what was working best.  Or he could be transitioning into more of a junkballer as his fastball velocity goes down and that pitch becomes less effective.
 
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/masahiro-tanaka-abandons-the-fastball/
 
Fangraphs seems to think it's a trend more than a one time deal.
 

jon abbey

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They 'think it's a trend' because he told everyone it's going to be a trend last week. I think the thing to keep in mind is that he might have moved in this direction even without any arm issues, his 4 seamer is too straight and many of his fastest pitches were the ones that got hit the hardest last season. I think we'll know a lot more in a month or so. 
 

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RIrooter09 said:
 
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/masahiro-tanaka-abandons-the-fastball/
 
Fangraphs seems to think it's a trend more than a one time deal.
 
Huh.  I swear I didn't read that before posting!
 
I agree with JA though that declaring a trend after one game is very premature.  Even the apparent velocity decrease is hard to judge because a lot of guys don't pitch at their full velocity in early April.
 

RIrooter09

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jon abbey said:
They 'think it's a trend' because he told everyone it's going to be a trend last week. I think the thing to keep in mind is that he might have moved in this direction even without any arm issues, his 4 seamer is too straight and many of his fastest pitches were the ones that got hit the hardest last season. I think we'll know a lot more in a month or so. 
 
Only 47% of his pitches last year were categorized as hard.  As the article points out that's 12% below average.  I didn't say it was a trend because of health concerns, it appears he may just be a junkballer.  Of course adopting a strategy of throwing a higher percentage of splitters and sliders certainly can contribute to elbow issues.
 

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jon abbey said:
He was very effective in spring training and TOR has one of the toughest lineups, I'm not too worried about him yet. 
 
What makes you think he was so effective in Spring Training? Because he wasn't.
 
Look at Tanaka's starts from a start by start basis. Look at his last 2 starts in Spring Training. He starts facing MLB-calibre hitters twice/three times a game and they hit him. This happens with more finesse guys. Without the power, the splitter becomes that much more ineffective. This happened again yesterday.
 
I don't understand how you wouldn't be worried? He's a walking time bomb. 
 

jon abbey

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SeanBerry

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Not every pitcher has a torn UCL. 
 
Obviously nothing we feel about these team have any bearing on the team but Tanaka's condition should be a major point of concern for any Yankee fan. 
 
I watched his start and while his off-speed stuff look really sharp the first time through the order, the hitters learned to wait for the fastballs the 2nd time around and took advantage. I don't see this going away. 
 
This is a major, major problem and I don't see him starting MLB games in June. And know that the Yankees/Tanaka have dragged their feet on this, you would lose him for this season and almost all of next.
 

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Am I worried about him? Sure, I'm worried about Sabathia also, both of them could be OK 5-6 inning pitchers who can get games to the bullpen, or both could be dreadful. I never expected too much from either this year, though, I am expecting and hoping that Pineda and Eovaldi will lead the rotation. 
 
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