Freeny, right? (Freeny was on IR but they needed depth)Quintessential Belichick trade. Time is a flat circle. They worked Van Noy out before the 2014 draft. I assume he'll play on special teams and situationally? Who's getting cut/IR'd here?
www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/6/14/11880008/next-man-up-kyle-van-noy-part-oneThe position Van Noy played at BYU gave him opportunities to gamble and rush upfield without worrying about quite as many other assignments: "they are the primary pass-rushers in that defensive scheme." But Austin’s combination multiple 4-3 defense (I would argue it’s "multiple" between 4-3 varieties: base 4-3 and Stunt 4-3) requires its outside linebackers to bear a heavier burden of non-rush duties.
This is why we’ll concentrate on two main ideas: can Van Noy play smart with proper tackling technique, angles, and scheme discipline, and then does Van Noy display the necessary coverage skills to play linebacker the way Austin’s defense needs him to?
Akeem Ayers worked out wellMaybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
Lions are trending towards a pick around 20-25, Pats are trending towards a pick around 31-32, so a drop of about 20-25 spotsHow many spots of moving down in the draft is a good estimate?
On October 21, 2014, the Titans traded Ayers along with a seventh round draft pick in the 2015 NFL Draft to the New England Patriots for a sixth round draft choice.[6] In each of his first two games with New England, Ayers recorded a sack.Maybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
Casillas was an undrafted free agent. Ayers is a good example, even though he had a pretty solid year for the Titans in 2012, which can't be said for guys like Van Noy.Akeem Ayers worked out well
Edit: Casillas was a good trade too
Casillas, along with a 2015 sixth-round draft pick, was traded to the New England Patriots on October 28, 2014, for the Patriots' 2015 fifth-round draft pick.Casillas was an undrafted free agent. Ayers is a good example, though.
Not announced yet.I'm getting 'Loading Tweet' on the opening post, I assume we swapped picks for this, what round?
Hicks and Ayers come to mindMaybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
Their 7th and Van Noy for our 6thI'm getting 'Loading Tweet' on the opening post, I assume we swapped picks for this, what round?
So? I was talking about high draft picks that the Patriots bring in on the cheap a couple of years after being given up on by the teams that drafted them. Casillas was undrafted out of college, he isn't the type of acquisition I was talking about.Casillas, along with a 2015 sixth-round draft pick, was traded to the New England Patriots on October 28, 2014, for the Patriots' 2015 fifth-round draft pick.
Aren't there oodles of comp picks at the end of the 6th?Lions are trending towards a pick around 20-25, Pats are trending towards a pick around 31-32, so a drop of about 20-25 spots
Talib was a talented but inconsistent corner with off field issues. He had already shown he could play in the NFL.If we consider players other than linebackers, Akiem Hicks and Aqib Talib both worked out nicely as well.
Ah gotcha I missed the part about high draft picks.So? I was talking about high draft picks that the Patriots bring in on the cheap a couple of years after being given up on by the teams that drafted them. Casillas was undrafted out of college, he isn't the type of acquisition I was talking about.
But thanks for the condescension.
Good optimism.Mike Vrabel was pretty much one of these guys.
Yeah, I think these are home run swings with a low percentage chance of working out, but the cost is also minimal. I don't think they should stop trying just because several of them haven't worked out; it's not like it's costing much, and if one or two guys pan out it's going to be worth it.Talib was a talented but inconsistent corner with off field issues. He had already shown he could play in the NFL.
I'm talking more about the Mingo, Rowe, Bostic, McClellin type of player, guys that were ighly touted out of college but hadn't really done anything before the Pats came calling. Van Noy is a lot more like these guys than he is like Talib, or even Ayers.
I'm hoping Belichick Performance Fleeced the Lions, then.I read this as Pats Acquire Old Navy. Just me?
Rowe has played the past six quarters and the only time I've seen him/heard his name is when he broke up a pass to AJ Green and drew an OPI flag. I'd say it's a bit early to give up on the guy, especially since he's played well in his limited time.I'm talking more about the Mingo, Rowe
That seems...overly confident.Matt Miller @nfldraftscout 8s8 seconds ago
Kyle Van Noy about to become Jamie Collins 2.0 in New England.
This is pretty, pretty good.I'm hoping Belichick Performance Fleeced the Lions, then.
I would think so too but there's been too many times where other's trash has become Patriots treasure. Not to this extent, but I'd say they're going to find a role for KVN and he's going to perform well in it.That seems...overly confident.
Yeah just like we were going to turn Mingo into a monster once he got away from Cleveland. Sometimes guys that don't make it big just aren't good enough.I would think so too but there's been too many times where other's trash has become Patriots treasure. Not to this extent, but I'd say they're going to find a role for KVN and he's going to perform well in it.
I have a hard time getting excited about a player that is toolsy but doesn't grasp the mental side of the game. That is not typically a "Patriot player". Jon Bostic an on the offensive side Doug Gabriel stand out as players that didn't work out despite having the physical traits.I would think so too but there's been too many times where other's trash has become Patriots treasure. Not to this extent, but I'd say they're going to find a role for KVN and he's going to perform well in it.
I thought they acquired Dr. Van Nostrand.I read this as Pats Acquire Old Navy. Just me?
Mingo has been very good on special teams. I think the perception that Mingo was going to be a "monster" were wrong to begin with.Yeah just like we were going to turn Mingo into a monster once he got away from Cleveland. Sometimes guys that don't make it big just aren't good enough.
Yeah the costs for these Mingo, Van Noys, Bostic pieces have been mostly 5th-7th round picks with inherently low probability hit rates. I dont think using them to take swings on guys they liked from past drafts that went in higher rounds is a bad strategy even if it fails most of time (not thinking of guys like Talib or Rowe, those cost more draft capital and are in different categories of moves). My hypothesis is that the Patriots, in some combination, dont generically value the talent in the 5th-7th rounds much more than an undrafted free agents and/or dont think those picks are particularly scarce/hard to acquire if they decide they need a lower round pick on draft day.Yeah, I think these are home run swings with a low percentage chance of working out, but the cost is also minimal. I don't think they should stop trying just because several of them haven't worked out; it's not like it's costing much, and if one or two guys pan out it's going to be worth it.
Van Noy is an interesting guy - he has been slow to key and diagnose, but I also saw him deflect a pass like 30 yards downfield in coverage on T.Y. Hilton, so he's got some skills. He's another guy who is kind of a tweener between a rush linebacker and an off-the-ball guy, which makes him a strange pickup for the Pats, who already have two guys like that who can't get on the field in Mingo and McClellin.
Oh come on. Learning a whole new system on the fly, limited snaps and he's still just a rookie. Pretty small sample size to come to a conclusion. Look at how bad Hightower looked when he was rookie. He was 5 steps too slow and behind every play but look at him now. It takes time to learn and time to adjust to the speed of the game.Yeah just like we were going to turn Mingo into a monster once he got away from Cleveland. Sometimes guys that don't make it big just aren't good enough.
Hicks last year. Rowe looking good this year. A lot of these guys have been legit contributors.Akeem Ayers worked out well
Edit: Casillas was a good trade too
From The Clinic?I thought they acquired Dr. Van Nostrand.
Maybe I'm being unfair, but I can't recall one of these types of deals that worked out for the Patriots. Most of the time those high draft picks that you can get on the cheap a year or two later just flat out can't play.
*cough* Akeem Ayers *cough*
Casillas, along with a 2015 sixth-round draft pick, was traded to the New England Patriots on October 28, 2014, for the Patriots' 2015 fifth-round draft pick.
If we consider players other than linebackers, Akiem Hicks and Aqib Talib both worked out nicely as well.
Mike Vrabel was pretty much one of these guys.
Patrick Chung is still paying dividends too (Cassel+Vrabel to KC for Chung's draft slot)