Peter Chiarelli fired; Claude and coaching staff stays
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
so presumably everyone else is subject to the new GM hire? Hope they have someone ready to launch quickly.
Well there's our answer. I suspect Shanahan will be placing a call to him shortly.
He helped bring us a Cup, so I wish him luck.
He helped bring us a Cup, so I wish him luck.
good decision not to fire Claude. Let the new GM decide who he wants as coach, whether Claude or someone else.
Would have liked to see Chiarelli get one more year at least, but at least Jacobs followed through with his ultimatum
Would have liked to see Chiarelli get one more year at least, but at least Jacobs followed through with his ultimatum
I would have liked to give him a year to fix the situation. When you read that resume at the end of the quotation, you can see why. 9 years, 4 100-plus point seasons, a President's Trophy and a Stanley Cup.
Leaving the coaching staff in place is foolish unless they are giving the new GM the opportunity to review and replace.
Leaving the coaching staff in place is foolish unless they are giving the new GM the opportunity to review and replace.
This screams to me like a promotion for Don Sweeney. It feels like a PR move if that is the case. Behind the B makes it pretty clear that the front office has been in lock step from a decision making process, so promoting an insider does nothing to fix any of the issues.
I don't like it. Chia is going to get the Leafs job now.
I don't like it. Chia is going to get the Leafs job now.
When you saddle the roster with too many average players making too much money while handing out no movement clauses like a drunken sailor this ends up your fate.
Good GM. Obviously brought us a cup. Probably too in love with his own players and his definition of a "core" is a bit larger than mine. I would have been fine giving him another year to make good but probably time to make a change though.
I don't get this. I understand that the team badly underperformed his year and that they made some bad decisions that tied their hands but I don't see how this guy hasn't been one of the most successful GMs in hockey.
They backed themselves into a corner when Jacobs threatened scorched earth way back in January. They had to do something, the masses wanted a head on a spike.
I feel like it's an overreaction to 1 bad year. If you step back, 9 seasons, 7 playoff appearances, 2 Cup appearances and a Cup win. Not many guys around have that resume, and his "worst" year was a 96 point DNQ.
I hope they know what they're doing. I hate the idea Sweeney taking over. Ray Shero doesn't inspire much enthusiasm. The grass isn't always greener, I guess.
I feel like it's an overreaction to 1 bad year. If you step back, 9 seasons, 7 playoff appearances, 2 Cup appearances and a Cup win. Not many guys around have that resume, and his "worst" year was a 96 point DNQ.
I hope they know what they're doing. I hate the idea Sweeney taking over. Ray Shero doesn't inspire much enthusiasm. The grass isn't always greener, I guess.
TheStoryofYourRedRightAnkle said:
100 point season doesn't mean what it did a few years ago. 96 doesn't get you in the playoffs.
Do you really think that they would allow Behind the B to show front office dissension? It's a team produced show on the network that they own 20% of. Of course they were going to make it seem like everyone was on the same page with every key decision.burstnbloom said:
Reactionary move IMO. I don't like it at all. I don't see how promoting from within will change too much perception wise, and I can't imagine an outsider will not want to bring in his own coach and personnel people. I don't see the point of this. More changes will be coming methinks.
https://twitter.com/mikecolenesn/status/588357532776824832burstnbloom said:
https://twitter.com/mikecolenesn/status/588357532776824832
link to tweet
RedOctober3829 said:
Who could? It's not like Chia has left a lot of flexibility here. Seidenberg and Chara are going to take up 15% of the cap, and they're both probably cooked. That's the big problem, and I'm not seeing how that's going away. The team is probably not going to contend seriously unless they have a miracle draft or two with those two bogging the team down. We can debate the merits of the extensions and the injuries, but it is what it is.
I like the move, I think Chia thinks he needs to sign people just for the sake of signing people sometimes. Either because he gets emotional over playoff success (Kelly, Krejci), or because he thinks he's signing someone below market (I guess Smith). I don't think he's a bad GM, but I'm good with some fresh blood. It doesn't help that he hasn't done so well with the draft recently, and that the Seguin trade was a massive loss, whether that's Claude's fault or not.
I'm fully in with the "massive overreaction to one bad season" crowd. So I'm wondering if there was more to this than just this season. Could be something as simple as Charlie Jacobs and Neely wanting their own guy. Could be there were some fundamental disagreements on how to move forward.
What's done is done; I hope they find someone good, and someone fairly soon. The name of the GM matters less to me than the players the GM trades and acquires. If Hamilton or Pastrnak get traded for a couple of 4th liners, then it's time to panic.
I really didn't see anyone here object to the signings of Chara, Krejci, or Kelly at the time they were made. IMO, those signings aren't the problem. Even the Seidenberg signing was widely applauded at the time. Smith's signing is more controversial.
What's done is done; I hope they find someone good, and someone fairly soon. The name of the GM matters less to me than the players the GM trades and acquires. If Hamilton or Pastrnak get traded for a couple of 4th liners, then it's time to panic.
I really didn't see anyone here object to the signings of Chara, Krejci, or Kelly at the time they were made. IMO, those signings aren't the problem. Even the Seidenberg signing was widely applauded at the time. Smith's signing is more controversial.
If the plan is to change the organizational philosophy (i.e. more speed/skill and less dump/chase), then this makes sense. But if the plan is to keep doing the same old same old, then Chia/Clause can do that as well or better than anybody else out there.
Kull said:
Yeah, you kind of wonder why they would keep Claude. I'm wondering if the NHL is beginning to pass Claude by with its shift towards speed and skill. Kind of like how we used to discuss Brandon Spikes was a 1980's all pro.
Salem's Lot said:
No, but it was pretty clear that everyone in the room, including Neely and Sweeney were all for trading Seguin. That was my point. I feel like that is why the masses wanted Chia's head and this feels like caving to that pressure. If that is the case, that's pretty weak because both of those guys were on board and we have the proof.
I really don't think Julien is opposed to speed and skill. He created a system that works not only for him, but also for the players he had. He gave Kessel regular shifts on the first line with Marc Savard back in 2007-08 when they led the Eastern Conference in scoring.Ed Hillel said:
Don't see what there is to love about Don Sweeney. He's been a player development guy under Chiarelli, and player devopment has been one of Chiarelli's weakest areas.
jsinger121 said:
This is where I am too. He tried to GFIN and it didn't work and the roster got old and inflexible and led to him making regrettable trades. Add to that the poor drafting of late and it seems clear that ownership doesn't believe he can adapt to the needs the team has.
Claude's staying primarily because his contract got extended not too long ago. If they're planning on promoting Sweeney then keeping Claude makes sense, but only if Claude can change his ways and get the team to play more uptempo and with more speed. We'll see.
The Behind the B discussions are heavily edited, and were done so after the trade. I seem to recall that one of the staff was particularly vocal about Seguin not being a fit (I can't recall if that was Sweeney or someone else altogether). Neely did bring up some of the past disciplinary history with Seguin as a factor, but also seemed to be leaving the ultimate decision to Chiarelli. And it was Chiarelli that was responsible for finding the matching trade partner and players.burstnbloom said:
The chicken-and-egg question: Do they play "this way" because, for example, they only have 2 defensemen (Krug and Hamilton) who can really rush the puck; or do they only have 2 defensemen who can rush the puck because they play this way?lexrageorge said:
If "it is what it is", then why make a move at all? They overhauled the scouting department and it's started to pay dividends. That's how you supplement a roster of players with big contracts. They absolutely could contend next year with some better luck in the injury department. If Krejci and Chara are healthy, they would be one of the better teams in the East.Ed Hillel said:
I can see why they made the move, but all I'm saying that this isn't the cure-all for the team's problems. If they don't trust him to make the moves necessary to improve then get rid of him. All I know that he is one of the better GMs in the game and there's a very short list of people that could come in and honestly would upgrade on him.
To me, it's almost a foregone conclusion that Don Sweeney will get the job given that everybody stayed on besides him. If they wanted a new direction in the franchise, they'd have canned everybody and let the new GM start fresh. Now, that still may happen but it's unlikely. Sweeney is a Chiarelli guy and won't deviate much from what the philosophy has been. This would be status quo and I'd be left wondering why they even made a move at all.
But he sent down Spooner instead of promoting him to the 1A/1B line with Lucic and Pastrnek.lexrageorge said:
I am lukewarm on it. I think Chiarelli was the primary source of their roster woes this season. He signed too many NMCs to marginal players, and bungled the handling of Boychuk. This put him at the edge of the salary cap, and limited what he could do to add talent to the roster. If the rumor is true that he offered Spooner and a 2nd for Stewart (who I think sucks), then I think his player evaluation skills have also significantly diminished.
I also think Claude's desire to play the Campbells and Kellys of the world contributed to this problem, but by and large injuries were a major reason for this season's derailment.
I suspect there is also more to this than we know now, and that I expect to learn more about this going forward.
I also think Claude's desire to play the Campbells and Kellys of the world contributed to this problem, but by and large injuries were a major reason for this season's derailment.
I suspect there is also more to this than we know now, and that I expect to learn more about this going forward.
If Claude gets fired, he'll end up taking over a roster of highly skilled players and lead them to the Stanley Cup in a few years, which will guarantee that those arguments will continue on here for at least another decade.Toe Nash said:
lexrageorge said:
I still feel like you guys are belaboring the point. The point is that Chia has not been acting alone. It's not like hes running around saying "I'll do what I want, screw you guys!" Promoting from within doesn't fix the organizational issues.
burstnbloom said:
Unless, of course, that Neely hasn't been in full agreement with Chia's moves and wants someone in the GM's seat more in line with his own thinking.
Chia set a level of success that his successor will be held to. I hope for ownership's sake they find someone who can exceed that standard, or else they'll look like hyper-reactive dickbags.
As a fan, I hope the next guy is better. As a realist, I feel that we're probably not getting that.
As a fan, I hope the next guy is better. As a realist, I feel that we're probably not getting that.
I agree with all of this. Looking at his tenure as a whole, he did WAY more good than bad, and easily outperformed his predecessors. He made some downright brilliant moves (Chara, Seidenberg, Savard, Rask, Dougie, I could keep going), and they won a Cup largely because of those moves.TheRealness said:
But he also put them in an unworkable cap situation that has hamstrung them the last two seasons, and will continue to hamstring them moving forward. If they think Sweeney is better equipped to dig them out of this hole, I don't have any reason to disagree.