Player Rankings

benhogan · Mar 2, 2022

chilidawg said:
The Athletic's Seth Partnow came out with his midseason player rankings today. Here's where the C's ended up:

https://theathletic.com/3153805/2022/03/01/midseason-nba-player-tiers-update-trae-young-demar-derozan-and-ja-morant-make-big-leaps/

Tatum 2B ( in with Booker, Butler and George, 13-16 overall)
Brown 3B ( Murray, Siakam, Lavine, 28-33)
Robert W. 4A (Sabonis, Allen, JJ Jr.)
Horford 4B (Collins, Valenciunas, Vucevic)
Smart 4B (Powell, Rozier, Maxey)

Seems about right to me, what y'all think?

sounds about right.

when a bigger/stronger Tatum is shooting 40% from 3 next year, his ranking will leap

Brad Beal's ranking ahead of/same as Donovan Mitchell?

slamminsammya · Mar 2, 2022

Gobert in 2A bothers me, but maybe I have overcompensated to focusing too much on offense the past few years.

benhogan · Mar 2, 2022

chilidawg said:
They're alphabetical in each tier, so Beal same as Mitchell. I tend to think Beal is overrated, so I'd probably have him a little lower.

yea, how can you not cool on Beal?

He has topped out at 35.3% from 3 (albeit high volume) over the last four seasons. Plus his D has whithered over the last few seasons. He should sign that Wizards deal quick, so he can Kemba the end of his career away

Cellar-Door · Mar 2, 2022

slamminsammya said:
Gobert in 2A bothers me, but maybe I have overcompensated to focusing too much on offense the past few years.

Partnow is the #1 GObert lover of all media, so keep that in mind.

However, the argument would probably be that he's arguably the best regular season defensive player year in and year out for the last 5-7 years, and his offensive contributions are a bit underrated.

Kliq · Mar 2, 2022

Advanced metrics love Gobert, and while the Jazz haven't had postseason success the way they would have expected, they are good every single year. He has some really impressive advanced numbers; he is 9th all time in WS per 48 in NBA history. He is #1 all-time in offensive rating in NBA history. He is pretty unanimously the best interior defender in the NBA and while limited, an incredibly efficient offensive player.

Jimbodandy · Mar 2, 2022

benhogan said:
yea, how can you not cool on Beal?

He has topped out at 35.3% from 3 (albeit high volume) over the last four seasons. Plus his D has whithered over the last few seasons. He should sign that Wizards deal quick, so he can Kemba the end of his career away

Yeah Donovan is better than Brad, but the former is sneaky bad on defense. The gap is not as much as you might think.

DGreenwood · Mar 2, 2022

Most of the Celtics have moved up since the preseason ranking. None dropped. Here's where they are on this list followed by where they were preseason:

Tatum 2B (was 2C)
Brown 3B ( was 3C)
Robert W. 4A (was 5A)
Horford 4B (stayed the same)
Smart 4B (stayed the same)
D White 4B (was 5A)

Edit: I went to the old list and looked all of that up before I realized the old rankings are right there on the new list (face palm emoji).

Second edit: In an effort to validate my existence, I'll point out that the new list states that TL was 5C preseason. That's not right. He was 5A (as I listed above).

Euclis20 · Mar 2, 2022

It feels odd to see a list like this and not have Embiid in the top tier, and it's equally odd seeing Durant in that top tier despite the obvious injury issues.

benhogan · Mar 2, 2022

Jimbodandy said:
Yeah Donovan is better than Brad, but the former is sneaky bad on defense. The gap is not as much as you might think.

has Dono been letting guys by with Rudy cleaning up his mistakes? always thought he was decent defensively, but haven't paid enough attention. I'm mostly unexcited by recent Brad Beal

benhogan · Mar 2, 2022

DGreenwood said:
Most of the Celtics have moved up since the preseason ranking. None dropped. Here's where they are on this list followed by where they were preseason:

Tatum 2B (was 2C)
Brown 3B ( was 3C)
Robert W. 4A (was 5A)
Horford 4B (stayed the same)
Smart 4B (stayed the same)
D White 4B (was 5A)

Edit: I went to the old list and looked all of that up before I realized the old rankings are right there on the new list (face palm emoji).

Second edit: In an effort to validate my existence, I'll point out that the new list states that TL was 5C preseason. That's not right. He was 5A (as I listed above).

the young Celtic guys ascending (moving up) makes sense and should really accelerate for Tatum/TL over the next 2-3 seasons

Euclis20 · Mar 2, 2022

Durant is still arguably the best player in the league when he plays, but he's played about 70 total games since the start of the 2019/2020 season. He's 33 and has had multiple serious leg injuries over the last few years. He's played in about 1/3 of the Nets regular season games since signing with them. The most recent MVP odds were Embiid, Jokic and Giannis, in that order - it's a big drop off after that, and Durant is 9th (between Luka and LeBron). If availability is a factor at all, I don't see how Durant can be included in the top tier of players currently.

Auger34 · Mar 2, 2022

On my first glimpse of it, two things stood out for me…
-Think Khris Middleton is overrated by a tier. I don’t think he’s a top 25 player.
-Surprising to see John Collins as low as he is. He’s a popular name for the go all in Horford package and on this exercise he’s in the exact same tier as Horford.
Not sure how much weight, if any, should be put on this but it’s interesting to look at

Jimbodandy · Mar 2, 2022

benhogan said:
has Dono been letting guys by with Rudy cleaning up his mistakes? always thought he was decent defensively, but haven't paid enough attention. I'm mostly unexcited by recent Brad Beal

There was a time when Mitchell was a positive defender, albeit not by much. Beal never has been. Both tanked defensively since. Which is fine really, because they're getting paid to score, but it's a thing.

Fwiw, right there with you on Beal. His shooting struggles are frightening.

"Talk to your doctor, if you think that you might be experiencing Kembaitis. Symptoms include acting like a matador, inability to create separation, and not enough shooting touch. Side effects may include an untradeable max contract and getting benched by the Knicks."

benhogan · Mar 2, 2022

Jimbodandy said:
"Talk to your doctor, if you think that you might be experiencing Kembaitis. Symptoms include acting like a matador, inability to create separation, and not enough shooting touch. Side effects may include an untradeable max contract and getting benched by the Knicks."

LOL...we're starting to get a glimpse of what life is like with no weak defenders playing big minutes in the rotation, don't want to go back there

Cellar-Door · Mar 2, 2022

Euclis20 said:
It feels odd to see a list like this and not have Embiid in the top tier, and it's equally odd seeing Durant in that top tier despite the obvious injury issues.

He has injury issues.... he's also the best player in the league when he's on the court and the most unstoppable offensive weapon there is.

Euclis20 · Mar 2, 2022

Cellar-Door said:
He has injury issues.... he's also the best player in the league when he's on the court and the most unstoppable offensive weapon there is.

Agreed (although not enormously so), and balancing that against his injury risk, I'd have him in the second group, meaning he's still a top 8 player. Injury risk is understating it with him...Embiid has missed an average of 18 games per year over the last 5 seasons (12 so far this year), that's an injury risk. Durant is on another level completely at this point.

As right as it is that he's arguably best player in the league when he plays and certainly the best offensive player, is it at all meaningful that he's made 1st team all-NBA just once in the last 8 years and hasn't been top 5 in the MVP voting since 2016 (going out on a limb and saying he's missing both again this year)? That's remarkable for a guy who's been considered one of the 2-3 best players in the league over that time, no? He's been in very favorable situations for almost his entire career (playing alongside at least one other top 10 player for most of the last decade) and he's missed a LOT of games over the last few seasons. At his age and given his injury concerns, I can't have him in the same category as Giannis, Embiid, Jokic. Still close though, which is just amazing given how much time he's missed.

DGreenwood · Mar 2, 2022

In case anyone is curious, here's the discussion of the preseason rankings back in August: Link

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