Poll: What does success the rest of the way look like to you?
- Thread starter Greekca
- Start date
Highest draft pick possible. They need a talent infusion on this roster going forward. Sucks they have the bare minimum of picks.
Considering their position after week 9, the best possible outcome for this season would be securing the first pick in each round of the 2024 draft.
Need the highest draft pick possible now that the playoffs are DONE (not technically but, uh, yeah). I'd like to think that with guys coming back healthy (Judon, Gonzalez), with a year under the belt of a guy like Douglas (and maybe even Boutte), with a ton of cap space, and with a top 3 draft pick in each round coming, their path to being good again is actually quite possibly short from this point forward (though it will have been a few years since Brady).
Hard to say who the “young core” even is. Doesn’t seem to be Mac. Gonzalez is hurt. Do they even have a “young core” whose development is relevant other than maybe Douglas, maybe White, Strange and Sow? A lot of the “young veterans” are either coming due for contracts (Uche, Dugger) or are kind of what their finished product is likely to be (Barmore, Jack Jones)
If healthy, and if Judon doesn’t drop off an age cliff, this roster isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. Stevenson is solid at RB, although depth there is needed (and easy to come by). The defense is at minimum above average if not good in terms of talent level with Gonzalez and Judon in there. Could use another DL as Guy seems washed.
the OL, if Onwenu is retained to play RR seems mostly set for next year although a replacement at center is probably needed soon and there’s clearly room to add depth at LT. The guards seem passable although could be upgraded.
it’s QB and #1 and #2 WR where they are way behind the better teams in the league. And those positions are really hard to find, let alone with a mid 1st round pick. Especially with the almost totally barren free agency market beyond Higgins who will almost assuredly be tagged and retained or traded for premium picks.
the best thing that can happen to this team is to get a shot at a true franchise player at QB or WR and that’s more likely with a top 3-5 pick than the 8th overall pick. Especially at QB.
the draft is obviously a crap shoot and it’s likely the 2nd best QB and WR (maybe even the best) will not be the 2nd guy taken at each position (Mahomes and Jefferson are obvious examples) but you still want the chance to take your guy and not the 4th QB or 3rd WR. Because without massive upgrades at both QB and WR, this team isn’t going to be able to compete with the premium teams.
If healthy, and if Judon doesn’t drop off an age cliff, this roster isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. Stevenson is solid at RB, although depth there is needed (and easy to come by). The defense is at minimum above average if not good in terms of talent level with Gonzalez and Judon in there. Could use another DL as Guy seems washed.
the OL, if Onwenu is retained to play RR seems mostly set for next year although a replacement at center is probably needed soon and there’s clearly room to add depth at LT. The guards seem passable although could be upgraded.
it’s QB and #1 and #2 WR where they are way behind the better teams in the league. And those positions are really hard to find, let alone with a mid 1st round pick. Especially with the almost totally barren free agency market beyond Higgins who will almost assuredly be tagged and retained or traded for premium picks.
the best thing that can happen to this team is to get a shot at a true franchise player at QB or WR and that’s more likely with a top 3-5 pick than the 8th overall pick. Especially at QB.
the draft is obviously a crap shoot and it’s likely the 2nd best QB and WR (maybe even the best) will not be the 2nd guy taken at each position (Mahomes and Jefferson are obvious examples) but you still want the chance to take your guy and not the 4th QB or 3rd WR. Because without massive upgrades at both QB and WR, this team isn’t going to be able to compete with the premium teams.
In a perfect world, they’d get the #1 pick then sell it off to the highest bidder as I’m not impressed by the top QB’s this year. That increases the likelihood of nabbing a top end talent in the ‘25 draft while also addressing other areas of need.
Success the rest of the way to me is nobody they expect to play a role on next year's team suffers a major injury.
Beyond that, it would be nice to see some development from the young guys on rookie deals.
Beyond that, it would be nice to see some development from the young guys on rookie deals.
I still literally cannot believe how many pats fans want to get rid of Bill belichick. I can see it from the media but not from so many of the fans and followers of this team.
I am one of these fans. Serious question, and I am not trying to stir up crap: In your opinion, do you feel that it is totally indefensible and unfair to get rid of Bill after this season?
Or are you saying that based on the great run that we have had, you could not conceive of this falling apart so quickly and dramatically?
Again, genuinely curious here. Thank you.
Wait, 10-7 is still in play!
Bring on the younglings. I want experience for Pop and time to see where Mac, Boutte, Thornton and others stand for next year. Actually, forget Mac. Is Matt Corral still around somewhere?
If playing the youngsters leads to a better draft slot, that's an added bonus.
Bring on the younglings. I want experience for Pop and time to see where Mac, Boutte, Thornton and others stand for next year. Actually, forget Mac. Is Matt Corral still around somewhere?
If playing the youngsters leads to a better draft slot, that's an added bonus.
Why can't you believe it, he is responsible for this absolute dog s##t roster that is literally the worst in the NFL right now! He has basically crapped on local level reporters for 20 years now and pulling that same shitik when you are a 2 win team is not going to play well.
How many more years are you willing to spot him, i think it is safe to say we are regressing and not progressing right now and that is not a good look. The look on Kraft's face and his son from his box yesterday said it all.
4 years of the roster going downhill with constant poor personnel decisions, poor coaching, etc. He is never going to win another Super Bowl again with this team. He might not even get back to the playoffs. I’ve seen enough. They are boring every Sunday. BB is still stuck in a different era with regards to offense. It’s time to move on.
It is really starting to get irritating reading the same petulant whining about how bad the roster is every week, as if there's an obvious, easy thing BB could do to fix it mid-season that he's stubbornly refusing to do.
It's been clear the personnel on offense has been bad for over a month. Each successive game that it continues to be bad this season doesn't reinforce the idea that BB can't improve it in the offseason.
I really don't care about this and I don't understand why anyone does. He doesn't want to answer questions about strategy and he shouldn't. The hot takes machine churns without quotes from him anyway. Ask him about the rise and fall of the H-back and he will give a TED talk.
Ah yes, the poor feelings of the venerable local reporters, truly what we should all care about.
Here's the steelman version of the argument, from my POV:
- The upside of keeping Belichick is he drafts a solid QB in the top five, turns the ship around in terms of player acquisition, and the team is playoff caliber moving forward.
- The upside of hiring someone new is the same - they draft a solid QB, bring in a fresh perspective, and the team is playoff caliber moving forward.
The key difference is that Belichick is going to retire in 3-4 years and, as we've seen, he's pretty bad at training others how to successfully coach like Bill Belichick. So any sort of "Transition plan" he creates to give the team to Mayo or Steve Belichick, or god forbid Josh McDaniels, is probably going to suck. BB has proven he is a brilliant football mind, but he's failed in recent years to bring other brilliant football minds into his orbit.
A new coach could be with the team for another ten years, maybe longer, if successful. That's incredibly valuable and a risk worth taking. They could also stink and the Pats could have to hire a new coach in 3-4 years, but they're going to have to do that anyway because of BBs age.
As we're seeing, the downside between having BB and a new coach is also the same. BB is just as capable of shepherding this organization to a dogshit 4-13 season as any other crap hire, plus he brings a ton of baggage with him, like hiring his kids and croneys and needing final say on personnel.
The band aid has to come off at some point soon, so why not now? If we're going to get a top 2 pick a QB, pair them up with someone who will be with them for many seasons instead of subjecting them to a coaching change that we know is going to happen within in the next few years.
Seems very different to have a coach leave and attempt to take the 3rd level of assistants with him, to a poor team (hence coach was fired), and immediately have success vs. have BB say it's his last year of coaching (whenever that is), a majority of the coaching staff stay in place, with a majority of the players, to a team that is likely not bottom 5 in the league. I'll take one of the best coaches in the history of sports over yet another year of coaching changes 10/10 times.
But can you at least see the logic in moving on now? I'm responding to a poster that anyone who thinks it's worth taking the leap now is essentially trolling a la Felger.
Except that isn't what Jin said at all. Media guys are writing for clicks. Posters here are not.
He didn't say anything about posters trolling, just that it's crazy to think fans of this team want him gone. I agree with him on that.
He didn't say anything about posters trolling, just that it's crazy to think fans of this team want him gone. I agree with him on that.
I guess I'm reading it as "I literally can't believe it because it's a crazy opinion that would only come from trolls in the media" rather than "wow, I can't believe things have changed so much since Brady left." It's unclear from the OP what the intention is.
Another poster thinks it's nuts that some here want BB gone. Again, those in the media write stories for clicks, regardless of the veracity, truth, or whether the writer believes what they are writing. That's not the case for posters here as you clearly feel like it is time. He disagrees, as do many of us.
It's a valid opinion for you to have but he isn't picking on you are anyone else.
It's a valid opinion for you to have but he isn't picking on you are anyone else.
I'd like the Pats to knock the Jets out of the playoffs in a "win and the Jets are in" game the last game of the season. That and the #1 pick and I'd consider the season salvaged.
EDIT: And yes I know that a victory over the Jets would likely take them out of the running for the first pick.
EDIT: And yes I know that a victory over the Jets would likely take them out of the running for the first pick.
I mean, the odds of a 10 year HC are very low, it's just not common anymore. The idea that you might get a head start on that shouldn't even factor in. Nor should "succession planning". keeping Bill now shouldn't obligate you to anythign once he's gone.
The only consideration should be.....
Do you think you can get someone (really 2 someones since I doubt they give the dual role to someone new) who will be better than Bill over the next 3-4 years.
I think it's the way he phrased it. He literally can't believe that a bunch of people want to fire the HC/GM putting up the worst season in 25 years?
Believe me i don't care about them either but i find it hard to believe the Kraft's are enjoying watching his investment get dumped on by all local media. Hell even the fn'ing Patriots pre game show instead of going over the coming game was laughing about Bill being traded and openly mocking him....
No idea, did they? I don't follow the NBA super closely. Much different sport though in terms of roster building.
That's the key. This isn't an either/or situation where you can blame the GM for not getting enough talent to be coached, or the coach for not getting more out of a decent roster assembled by the GM. He's responsible for both ends of a situation that is getting worse, and isn't playing disciplined or smart while doing so.
There will never be a better coach in Patriots history than BB, but he isn't a Supreme Court justice. Sometimes, you just have to reach a point where it's time to move on.
Weren’t the Patriots supposed to be good though? At least according to this board, it seemed like expectations were pretty high this season and it’s been a total disaster. In hindsight, perhaps many were looking at things with rose colored glasses but I believe the organization from the top down thought this team would at least be competitive.
Im sure they did, he was sleep walking through the games the last few seasons and deserved to be canned, luck of the draw saved him.
The Pats O/U win total was 5 or 6 games, I can't remember. So no. And then their top defenders all got hurt, which made them even worse.
Regardless, the point is most people from the outside would think it's insane for local fans who had a 20 year run to want to fire the greatest coach ever because of 1.5 bad seasons. That's why the comparison to the Spurs made sense. No one in the NBA forum was saying they should fire him. Because it's illogical. My god I hope you all aren't managers of actual people in your real lives.
It's 31 games now (11-20 record; -97 point differential), but besides that, it's due to the team continually trending in the wrong direction with little sign that anything will get better. There is no NFL draft lottery for BB to win, and even if there was, A) the Pats are much more than 1 player from being good, and B) there is no Wemby in this draft (some people thought Caleb was, but the bloom seems to be off that rose).
And your comment about us being people managers in real life is crap and you know it. The NFL isn't real life.
it was 7.5. But all the talk on here was about the absolutely elite defense, the great draft, a competent coaching staff, a deep WR room, growth from Mac, etc. Maybe it was all BS and homerism but it sure seemed like most folks here expected a contender and BB and Kraft sure as shit acted like it wasn’t a rebuilding year. Hell, losing MP was supposed to be 2 wins on its own.
It's just like the Red Sox season where we pretend everyone knew they'd be this bad but if you look back the majority here thought they'd be a 7 win team as a floor.
Yeah, I recall lots of talk about how BB could coach even the worst of teams up to 7-8 wins. Hey, maybe it will still happen.
It was 6.5 wins.
edit - it was also 7.5 at one point in the summer, too. It must have moved down when the books realized the Pats had no offense.
I certainly believed that they would be better than last year. The defense was good last year, was mostly returning, and was adding Gonzalez and White from the draft. I believed that BOB was going to maximize Mac and have a coherent plan. I expected growth from Strange, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, and Thornton. I was concerned about offensive tackle and WR. Everything that could go wrong has. I do feel for BB but this is a mess, the Judon and Gonzalez injuries are killers, plus the whole team besides maybe Barmore, Tavai, Bentley, and Peppers has taken a step back. I have enjoyed the play of Douglas and Pharaoh Brown. The two rookie specialists have been decent. There are so few bright spots, it's discouraging.
Agree with this completely. There are certainly arguments for moving on, and that the personnel blows is top among them, but watching the games from here out as a test for Bill feels like a fool's errand. They're essentially already eliminated from the playoffs, their best 2 players and probably their 4th or 5th best player are done for the year, and it's clear the quarterback doesn't have it. I'm not pulling for the tank to the point where I'm watching the games rooting for the opponent, but the reality of it is that this is a lost season at this point. It might be fireable, but I really can't get myself worked up about what happens in games 10-17 as if they should matter to whether it is or not.
Expectations were high because folks didn't want to believe how trash of a QB Mac is. It's very apparent that he's the biggest issue for this team. They are not that far from being competitive. You add a couple pieces on offense and get healthy on defense and this is a playoff team with a competent QB.
You should watch Evan Lazar's game film review: After Further Review: What Went Wrong for the Patriots Offense, Defense in Loss to the Commanders . There's plenty of criticism for Mac's poor technique and lack of arm, but that's far from the only thing seriously wrong with the offense. The receivers are, as a group, not getting separation, not running crisp routes, not consistently running the correct routes, not catching enough of the good throws Mac does make, and are failing to make enough tough catches, too. The O-line has started to gel a bit, so hopefully it won't need to be completely overhauled, and with good luck maybe they can add enough playmakers at the skill positions through the draft or FA that a competent QB could make them a playoff team, but that's really not where they are today.
If this is true, then no one should be questioning whether Bill is back or not next season. Because he’s one position upgrade away from the playoffs.
Personally, I’m not at all sold that it’s only the QB spot. But it’s the biggest issue.