I am one of these fans. Serious question, and I am not trying to stir up crap: In your opinion, do you feel that it is totally indefensible and unfair to get rid of Bill after this season?I still literally cannot believe how many pats fans want to get rid of Bill belichick. I can see it from the media but not from so many of the fans and followers of this team.
Why can't you believe it, he is responsible for this absolute dog s##t roster that is literally the worst in the NFL right now! He has basically crapped on local level reporters for 20 years now and pulling that same shitik when you are a 2 win team is not going to play well.I still literally cannot believe how many pats fans want to get rid of Bill belichick. I can see it from the media but not from so many of the fans and followers of this team.
4 years of the roster going downhill with constant poor personnel decisions, poor coaching, etc. He is never going to win another Super Bowl again with this team. He might not even get back to the playoffs. I’ve seen enough. They are boring every Sunday. BB is still stuck in a different era with regards to offense. It’s time to move on.I still literally cannot believe how many pats fans want to get rid of Bill belichick. I can see it from the media but not from so many of the fans and followers of this team.
It is really starting to get irritating reading the same petulant whining about how bad the roster is every week, as if there's an obvious, easy thing BB could do to fix it mid-season that he's stubbornly refusing to do.I still literally cannot believe how many pats fans want to get rid of Bill belichick. I can see it from the media but not from so many of the fans and followers of this team.
I really don't care about this and I don't understand why anyone does. He doesn't want to answer questions about strategy and he shouldn't. The hot takes machine churns without quotes from him anyway. Ask him about the rise and fall of the H-back and he will give a TED talk.He has basically crapped on local level reporters for 20 years now and pulling that same shitik when you are a 2 win team is not going to play well.
Ah yes, the poor feelings of the venerable local reporters, truly what we should all care about.Why can't you believe it, he is responsible for this absolute dog s##t roster that is literally the worst in the NFL right now! He has basically crapped on local level reporters for 20 years now and pulling that same shitik when you are a 2 win team is not going to play well.
How many more years are you willing to spot him, i think it is safe to say we are regressing and not progressing right now and that is not a good look. The look on Kraft's face and his son from his box yesterday said it all.
Here's the steelman version of the argument, from my POV:I still literally cannot believe how many pats fans want to get rid of Bill belichick. I can see it from the media but not from so many of the fans and followers of this team.
Seems very different to have a coach leave and attempt to take the 3rd level of assistants with him, to a poor team (hence coach was fired), and immediately have success vs. have BB say it's his last year of coaching (whenever that is), a majority of the coaching staff stay in place, with a majority of the players, to a team that is likely not bottom 5 in the league. I'll take one of the best coaches in the history of sports over yet another year of coaching changes 10/10 times.Here's the steelman version of the argument, from my POV:
- The upside of keeping Belichick is he drafts a solid QB in the top five, turns the ship around in terms of player acquisition, and the team is playoff caliber moving forward.
- The upside of hiring someone new is the same - they draft a solid QB, bring in a fresh perspective, and the team is playoff caliber moving forward.
The key difference is that Belichick is going to retire in 3-4 years and, as we've seen, he's pretty bad at training others how to successfully coach like Bill Belichick. So any sort of "Transition plan" he creates to give the team to Mayo or Steve Belichick, or god forbid Josh McDaniels, is probably going to suck. BB has proven he is a brilliant football mind, but he's failed in recent years to bring other brilliant football minds into his orbit.
A new coach could be with the team for another ten years, maybe longer, if successful. That's incredibly valuable and a risk worth taking. They could also stink and the Pats could have to hire a new coach in 3-4 years, but they're going to have to do that anyway because of BBs age.
As we're seeing, the downside between having BB and a new coach is also the same. BB is just as capable of shepherding this organization to a dogshit 4-13 season as any other crap hire, plus he brings a ton of baggage with him, like hiring his kids and croneys and needing final say on personnel.
The band aid has to come off at some point soon, so why not now? If we're going to get a top 2 pick a QB, pair them up with someone who will be with them for many seasons instead of subjecting them to a coaching change that we know is going to happen within in the next few years.
But can you at least see the logic in moving on now? I'm responding to a poster that anyone who thinks it's worth taking the leap now is essentially trolling a la Felger.Seems very different to have a coach leave and attempt to take the 3rd level of assistants with him, to a poor team (hence coach was fired), and immediately have success vs. have BB say it's his last year of coaching (whenever that is), a majority of the coaching staff stay in place, with a majority of the players, to a team that is likely not bottom 5 in the league. I'll take one of the best coaches in the history of sports over yet another year of coaching changes 10/10 times.
I guess I'm reading it as "I literally can't believe it because it's a crazy opinion that would only come from trolls in the media" rather than "wow, I can't believe things have changed so much since Brady left." It's unclear from the OP what the intention is.He didn't say anything about posters trolling, just that it's crazy to think fans of this team want him gone. I agree with him on that.
I mean, the odds of a 10 year HC are very low, it's just not common anymore. The idea that you might get a head start on that shouldn't even factor in. Nor should "succession planning". keeping Bill now shouldn't obligate you to anythign once he's gone.Here's the steelman version of the argument, from my POV:
- The upside of keeping Belichick is he drafts a solid QB in the top five, turns the ship around in terms of player acquisition, and the team is playoff caliber moving forward.
- The upside of hiring someone new is the same - they draft a solid QB, bring in a fresh perspective, and the team is playoff caliber moving forward.
The key difference is that Belichick is going to retire in 3-4 years and, as we've seen, he's pretty bad at training others how to successfully coach like Bill Belichick. So any sort of "Transition plan" he creates to give the team to Mayo or Steve Belichick, or god forbid Josh McDaniels, is probably going to suck. BB has proven he is a brilliant football mind, but he's failed in recent years to bring other brilliant football minds into his orbit.
A new coach could be with the team for another ten years, maybe longer, if successful. That's incredibly valuable and a risk worth taking. They could also stink and the Pats could have to hire a new coach in 3-4 years, but they're going to have to do that anyway because of BBs age.
As we're seeing, the downside between having BB and a new coach is also the same. BB is just as capable of shepherding this organization to a dogshit 4-13 season as any other crap hire, plus he brings a ton of baggage with him, like hiring his kids and croneys and needing final say on personnel.
The band aid has to come off at some point soon, so why not now? If we're going to get a top 2 pick a QB, pair them up with someone who will be with them for many seasons instead of subjecting them to a coaching change that we know is going to happen within in the next few years.
I think it's the way he phrased it. He literally can't believe that a bunch of people want to fire the HC/GM putting up the worst season in 25 years?Another poster thinks it's nuts that some here want BB gone. Again, those in the media write stories for clicks, regardless of the veracity, truth, or whether the writer believes what they are writing. That's not the case for posters here as you clearly feel like it is time. He disagrees, as do many of us.
It's a valid opinion for you to have but he isn't picking on you are anyone else.
Did Spurs fans want Popovich fired?I think it's the way he phrased it. He literally can't believe that a bunch of people want to fire the HC/GM putting up the worst season in 25 years?
Believe me i don't care about them either but i find it hard to believe the Kraft's are enjoying watching his investment get dumped on by all local media. Hell even the fn'ing Patriots pre game show instead of going over the coming game was laughing about Bill being traded and openly mocking him....Ah yes, the poor feelings of the venerable local reporters, truly what we should all care about.
No idea, did they? I don't follow the NBA super closely. Much different sport though in terms of roster building.Did Spurs fans want Popovich fired?
That's the key. This isn't an either/or situation where you can blame the GM for not getting enough talent to be coached, or the coach for not getting more out of a decent roster assembled by the GM. He's responsible for both ends of a situation that is getting worse, and isn't playing disciplined or smart while doing so.I think it's the way he phrased it. He literally can't believe that a bunch of people want to fire the HC/GM putting up the worst season in 25 years?
Weren’t the Patriots supposed to be good though? At least according to this board, it seemed like expectations were pretty high this season and it’s been a total disaster. In hindsight, perhaps many were looking at things with rose colored glasses but I believe the organization from the top down thought this team would at least be competitive.Did Spurs fans want Popovich fired?
Im sure they did, he was sleep walking through the games the last few seasons and deserved to be canned, luck of the draw saved him.Did Spurs fans want Popovich fired?
The Pats O/U win total was 5 or 6 games, I can't remember. So no. And then their top defenders all got hurt, which made them even worse.Weren’t the Patriots supposed to be good though? At least according to this board, it seemed like expectations were pretty high this season and it’s been a total disaster. In hindsight, perhaps many were looking at things with rose colored glasses but I believe the organization from the top down thought this team would at least be competitive.
It's 31 games now (11-20 record; -97 point differential), but besides that, it's due to the team continually trending in the wrong direction with little sign that anything will get better. There is no NFL draft lottery for BB to win, and even if there was, A) the Pats are much more than 1 player from being good, and B) there is no Wemby in this draft (some people thought Caleb was, but the bloom seems to be off that rose).The Pats O/U win total was 5 or 6 games, I can't remember. So no. And then their top defenders all got hurt, which made them even worse.
Regardless, the point is most people from the outside would think it's insane for local fans who had a 20 year run to want to fire the greatest coach ever because of 1.5 bad seasons. That's why the comparison to the Spurs made sense. No one in the NBA forum was saying they should fire him. Because it's illogical. My god I hope you all aren't managers of actual people in your real lives.
it was 7.5. But all the talk on here was about the absolutely elite defense, the great draft, a competent coaching staff, a deep WR room, growth from Mac, etc. Maybe it was all BS and homerism but it sure seemed like most folks here expected a contender and BB and Kraft sure as shit acted like it wasn’t a rebuilding year. Hell, losing MP was supposed to be 2 wins on its own.The Pats O/U win total was 5 or 6 games, I can't remember. So no. And then their top defenders all got hurt, which made them even worse.
It's just like the Red Sox season where we pretend everyone knew they'd be this bad but if you look back the majority here thought they'd be a 7 win team as a floor.Weren’t the Patriots supposed to be good though? At least according to this board, it seemed like expectations were pretty high this season and it’s been a total disaster. In hindsight, perhaps many were looking at things with rose colored glasses but I believe the organization from the top down thought this team would at least be competitive.
Yeah, I recall lots of talk about how BB could coach even the worst of teams up to 7-8 wins. Hey, maybe it will still happen.It's just like the Red Sox season where we pretend everyone knew they'd be this bad but if you look back the majority here thought they'd be a 7 win team as a floor.
It was 6.5 wins.it was 7.5. But all the talk on here was about the absolutely elite defense, the great draft, a competent coaching staff, a deep WR room, growth from Mac, etc. Maybe it was all BS and homerism but it sure seemed like most folks here expected a contender and BB and Kraft sure as shit acted like it wasn’t a rebuilding year. Hell, losing MP was supposed to be 2 wins on its own.
I certainly believed that they would be better than last year. The defense was good last year, was mostly returning, and was adding Gonzalez and White from the draft. I believed that BOB was going to maximize Mac and have a coherent plan. I expected growth from Strange, Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, and Thornton. I was concerned about offensive tackle and WR. Everything that could go wrong has. I do feel for BB but this is a mess, the Judon and Gonzalez injuries are killers, plus the whole team besides maybe Barmore, Tavai, Bentley, and Peppers has taken a step back. I have enjoyed the play of Douglas and Pharaoh Brown. The two rookie specialists have been decent. There are so few bright spots, it's discouraging.it was 7.5. But all the talk on here was about the absolutely elite defense, the great draft, a competent coaching staff, a deep WR room, growth from Mac, etc. Maybe it was all BS and homerism but it sure seemed like most folks here expected a contender and BB and Kraft sure as shit acted like it wasn’t a rebuilding year. Hell, losing MP was supposed to be 2 wins on its own.
Agree with this completely. There are certainly arguments for moving on, and that the personnel blows is top among them, but watching the games from here out as a test for Bill feels like a fool's errand. They're essentially already eliminated from the playoffs, their best 2 players and probably their 4th or 5th best player are done for the year, and it's clear the quarterback doesn't have it. I'm not pulling for the tank to the point where I'm watching the games rooting for the opponent, but the reality of it is that this is a lost season at this point. It might be fireable, but I really can't get myself worked up about what happens in games 10-17 as if they should matter to whether it is or not.It is really starting to get irritating reading the same petulant whining about how bad the roster is every week, as if there's an obvious, easy thing BB could do to fix it mid-season that he's stubbornly refusing to do.
It's been clear the personnel on offense has been bad for over a month. Each successive game that it continues to be bad this season doesn't reinforce the idea that BB can't improve it in the offseason.
Expectations were high because folks didn't want to believe how trash of a QB Mac is. It's very apparent that he's the biggest issue for this team. They are not that far from being competitive. You add a couple pieces on offense and get healthy on defense and this is a playoff team with a competent QB.Weren’t the Patriots supposed to be good though? At least according to this board, it seemed like expectations were pretty high this season and it’s been a total disaster. In hindsight, perhaps many were looking at things with rose colored glasses but I believe the organization from the top down thought this team would at least be competitive.
You should watch Evan Lazar's game film review: After Further Review: What Went Wrong for the Patriots Offense, Defense in Loss to the Commanders . There's plenty of criticism for Mac's poor technique and lack of arm, but that's far from the only thing seriously wrong with the offense. The receivers are, as a group, not getting separation, not running crisp routes, not consistently running the correct routes, not catching enough of the good throws Mac does make, and are failing to make enough tough catches, too. The O-line has started to gel a bit, so hopefully it won't need to be completely overhauled, and with good luck maybe they can add enough playmakers at the skill positions through the draft or FA that a competent QB could make them a playoff team, but that's really not where they are today.Expectations were high because folks didn't want to believe how trash of a QB Mac is. It's very apparent that he's the biggest issue for this team. They are not that far from being competitive. You add a couple pieces on offense and get healthy on defense and this is a playoff team with a competent QB.
If this is true, then no one should be questioning whether Bill is back or not next season. Because he’s one position upgrade away from the playoffs.Expectations were high because folks didn't want to believe how trash of a QB Mac is. It's very apparent that he's the biggest issue for this team. They are not that far from being competitive. You add a couple pieces on offense and get healthy on defense and this is a playoff team with a competent QB.