They all say that in June but I can see both sides here. Same was said regarding Smart from player and team. Then there is Morris and his minutes. Lot of stuff still in play here.There was a tweet last night with a Celtics source saying they want Baynes and Baynes has said he wants to be back.
We shall see.
The good news is that this year Brad can sprinkle in a little Gordon Hayward or Tatum into the second unit at times to give them some help on offense. The season starts tomorrow, right?The 2nd unit defensive team of Smart, Rozier, Morris, Semi, Williams is going to be amazing. Their offense might require a few beers to watch though... barring a Smart/Williams PnR with Rozier/Morris as shooting options.
Agreed. The Celtics are getting a guy with late lotto potential for a salary of around the vet minimum (or even less depending on the years of experience of the vet). The Celtics are getting Theis/Williams for a cost of under $3M, which is absolutely needed given this team's salary structure.Out of curiosity, why do you not love the pick, then? Because you just described what I thought when I saw it and thought, man, Ainge does it again...
Like, it's not the player himself alone but what it means for the long term salary structure. The potential here is just brilliant.
Well, I haven't seen him play much, so I'll admit it's not a well informed opinion. But the things that give me pause are:Out of curiosity, why do you not love the pick, then? Because you just described what I thought when I saw it and thought, man, Ainge does it again...
Like, it's not the player himself alone but what it means for the long term salary structure. The potential here is just brilliant.
Let's hope if he stands under a fruit tree and reaches for its branches, they don't recede.the tantalizer: robert williams
We need a male equivalent of the "debbie downer" epithet. Negative Norman?People thought Aaron Hernandez's reported character issues were marijuana.
For awhile.
Williams was paired with another center, Tyler Davis, on Texas A&M. He played out of position (4) and having 2 centers and not much shooting really clogged the lane for A&M. It was a poorly constructed roster for Williams to thrive under. Not going pro last year did Williams no favors. The Celtics are the beneficiaries of the shine coming off his stock. Surround Williams with offensively skilled players/shooters and the floor/basket will open up for him.Well, I haven't seen him play much, so I'll admit it's not a well informed opinion. But the things that give me pause are:
(1) The awful FT shooting, both in and of itself (will we be able to have him on the floor in crunch time, or will teams just foul him constantly), and what it portends for his shooting down the road (the lack of spacing/lane clogging that will occur with him on the floor and whether that meshes with the way the rest of the team is being built),
(2) The relatively mild improvement from his Freshman to Sophomore years (minutes didn't increase, which always seems like a red flag to me if a player isn't establishing themselves; he became a slightly more efficient shooter/rebounder, but not by huge margins),
(3) I'm generally skeptical, rather than excited, about grabbing guys who drop-- I usually take that as a sign that the player was probably over-rated by fans/media compared to what scouts think, rather than to assume we just got lucky and got a steal (admittedly, this is not anything specific to Williams).
But again, I can get behind thinking he's a valuable pick as a 15min/g bench player who can grab some rebounds and defend certain problematic matchups, and that's a valuable get @27 and on a cheap rookie contract. I just don't see a lot of long-term upside for him turning into a regular starter.
Thanks for the thoughts. I wonder though, if your concern in (2) ought to be mitigated by this point that HRB made earlier:Well, I haven't seen him play much, so I'll admit it's not a well informed opinion. But the things that give me pause are:
(1) The awful FT shooting, both in and of itself (will we be able to have him on the floor in crunch time, or will teams just foul him constantly), and what it portends for his shooting down the road (the lack of spacing/lane clogging that will occur with him on the floor and whether that meshes with the way the rest of the team is being built),
(2) The relatively mild improvement from his Freshman to Sophomore years (minutes didn't increase, which always seems like a red flag to me if a player isn't establishing themselves; he became a slightly more efficient shooter/rebounder, but not by huge margins),
(3) I'm generally skeptical, rather than excited, about grabbing guys who drop-- I usually take that as a sign that the player was probably over-rated by fans/media compared to what scouts think, rather than to assume we just got lucky and got a steal (admittedly, this is not anything specific to Williams).
But again, I can get behind thinking he's a valuable pick as a 15min/g bench player who can grab some rebounds and defend certain problematic matchups, and that's a valuable get @27 and on a cheap rookie contract. I just don't see a lot of long-term upside for him turning into a regular starter.
I agree, getting pumped about guys falling can be a fool's errand. But there's a lot of things here that, if they break all right for us, I love the potential. And if anyone's gonna play angles and get breaks, it's Danny.It is so much more impressive when you realize how many of those missed shots were up for grabs against his teammate and 6-10 C Tyler Davis who led the SEC in rebounding.
We can't really worry about breaking down his numbers as it's ultimately going to come down to how quickly or if Williams "gets it"!and is able to learn NBA level defensive schemes.
FT shooting is definitely a red flag, although I'm not sure he's going to touch the ball that much on offense. His freshman to sophomore trajectory was muted because A&M didn't have very good perimeter shooting and because he was forced to play the 4 alongside another big. Brad Stevens' system favors his skills more (much better spacing, Williams will play the 5, will actually get lobs, etc.).Well, I haven't seen him play much, so I'll admit it's not a well informed opinion. But the things that give me pause are:
(1) The awful FT shooting, both in and of itself (will we be able to have him on the floor in crunch time, or will teams just foul him constantly), and what it portends for his shooting down the road (the lack of spacing/lane clogging that will occur with him on the floor and whether that meshes with the way the rest of the team is being built),
(2) The relatively mild improvement from his Freshman to Sophomore years (minutes didn't increase, which always seems like a red flag to me if a player isn't establishing themselves; he became a slightly more efficient shooter/rebounder, but not by huge margins),
(3) I'm generally skeptical, rather than excited, about grabbing guys who drop-- I usually take that as a sign that the player was probably over-rated by fans/media compared to what scouts think, rather than to assume we just got lucky and got a steal (admittedly, this is not anything specific to Williams).
Dude, you got your Splash Brothers East! (Young = Curry, Huerter = Thompson, at least to hear the scouts tell it). Meanwhile, John Collins rocks and is still only 20. I'd be pretty stoked if I were you.A lot of Hawks fans wanted Williams at #19. I will now light myself on fire. [/Simmons]
It was really surprising when he decided to return to A&M (he likely cost himself a bunch of money, considering he likely was a late lotto guy last year) but part of his justification was that he'd expand his game, and there were scouts who were hopeful he'd come back with a jump shot. That didn't happen ( he went from 2/18 from three last year to 0/12 this year) and he didn't particularly improve in other areas either, so I agree that's a concern. Still, he really is a lot like a young Capela in terms of strengths and weaknesses, and he'll be in a great environment to develop. If he can be 85% of Capela as a situational rim protector who can switch on ball-handlers and defend the perimeter too, then just screen and roll on the other end, that's a big value for a stacked team picking at the end of the draft.Well, I haven't seen him play much, so I'll admit it's not a well informed opinion. But the things that give me pause are:
(1) The awful FT shooting, both in and of itself (will we be able to have him on the floor in crunch time, or will teams just foul him constantly), and what it portends for his shooting down the road (the lack of spacing/lane clogging that will occur with him on the floor and whether that meshes with the way the rest of the team is being built),
(2) The relatively mild improvement from his Freshman to Sophomore years (minutes didn't increase, which always seems like a red flag to me if a player isn't establishing themselves; he became a slightly more efficient shooter/rebounder, but not by huge margins),
(3) I'm generally skeptical, rather than excited, about grabbing guys who drop-- I usually take that as a sign that the player was probably over-rated by fans/media compared to what scouts think, rather than to assume we just got lucky and got a steal (admittedly, this is not anything specific to Williams).
But again, I can get behind thinking he's a valuable pick as a 15min/g bench player who can grab some rebounds and defend certain problematic matchups, and that's a valuable get @27 and on a cheap rookie contract. I just don't see a lot of long-term upside for him turning into a regular starter.
Yup. This kid is complete gravy in 2018-2019 as long as Baynes or a Baynes equivalent comes.There are reports that Williams was one of the few big prospects who was athletic enough to both protect the rim and move his feet and cover switches on the perimeter. If he can do that, grab rebounds, and set picks and then roll to the rim for lobs, he will have a role with this stacked team. I don't know if he's going to get minutes over Theis when the other team plays small, or over Baynes when the opponent goes big, but having a late first rookie on the cheap, with lottery level talent, who could contribute if needed is valuable.
The rich get richer. Now there's more of a reason to watch Summer League.
Sean Williams would have been a good NBA player had he wanted to be. As long as Bob Will works hard, he'll be fine.I'm happy with the pick too but the downside is Sean Williams. Hopefully he's more Capela.
Based on their pre-draft comments and the players they worked out, it's pretty clear they were targeting a wing. But yeah, I'd think (hope?) they would also have taken a good long look at an uber-athletic big projected #12-15 who had slid all the way to #28.What's also satisfying is knowing Golden State must have been ready to pounce on him with the next pick, thinking they had their Jordan Bell of the 2018 draft. Ha!
Not to get off topic, but my real fear here is that Schlenk is trying to treat Golden State as a plug-and-play template, instead of drafting the best players that are complementary to each other and fashioning a system out of that. That's how inferior GMs operate, in contrast to how Ainge and Stevens are working together.Dude, you got your Splash Brothers East! (Young = Curry, Huerter = Thompson, at least to hear the scouts tell it). Meanwhile, John Collins rocks and is still only 20. I'd be pretty stoked if I were you.
Wasn't Sean Williams' main issue that he was an epic pot-head?Sean Williams would have been a good NBA player had he wanted to be. As long as Bob Will works hard, he'll be fine.
Yeah, but the off court stuff and work ethic are both in question, a la Sean Williams. The talent is definitely there.Sean Williams would have been a good NBA player had he wanted to be. As long as Bob Will works hard, he'll be fine.
And Bob Will was allegedly suspended for marijuana.Wasn't Sean Williams' main issue that he was an epic pot-head?
"sort of funny" = "going to run a lot more suicides in training camp""I got to draft a point guard," Ainge joked when Rozier, Boston's postseason starter while Kyrie Irving was injured, first asked about the team's selection. Pressed for the actual pick, Ainge answered, "It's going to be Bob Williams, but we're looking at all the medical stuff."
After Thursday's draft concluded, Ainge admitted he was unaware that Rozier was calling during a live broadcast.
"I was obviously joking with Terry about the guard position. I had no idea I was on live, whatever it was," Ainge said. "I thought he was FaceTiming me. I had no idea. But, anyway, that is sort of funny. We're excited about Robert, and we felt like he was the best player available, and we think he's a great fit for our team."
You’d be stoked about a John Collins, Trae Young and Huerter core? Man.Dude, you got your Splash Brothers East! (Young = Curry, Huerter = Thompson, at least to hear the scouts tell it). Meanwhile, John Collins rocks and is still only 20. I'd be pretty stoked if I were you.
I have to believe their best lineup has Horford at the 5, so I don’t agree with this analysis. With Horford at the 5 you can play your five best players, all of whom can take it to the rim or knock down a three at ~40%. And that group is going to be very switchable and really excellent defensively. I’m not really sure the NBA has ever seen that.Depth at the 5 was a need. A young, mobile, defensive minded 5 was a huge get. Put him on an accelerated Capella track, who took a year to get added to the Rockets rotation (12 GP his rookie season). Williams finds his way to somewhere on #11-15 spot on the roster this season.
I have to believe Danny will also sign a veteran big (most likely Baynes). Go with Baynes/Theis/Williams at the 5. Opportunistically use Horford at the 5:
(a)when they go small
(b)at the end of games when they go situational
Probably squashes the Dwight Howard rumors earlier in the day.
Well shoot. Now he’s going to kill people like Aaron Hernandez.And Bob Will was allegedly suspended for marijuana.
Remember the "relentless" tag/mantra that got attached to the 2013 Red Sox lineup?Yup. This kid is complete gravy in 2018-2019 as long as Baynes or a Baynes equivalent comes.
Horford / Baynes / Williams
Tatum / Theis / Yabu
Hayward / Morris / Semi / Bird
Brown / Smart
Kyrie / Rozier
This team is going to be absolutely stacked next year if Baynes/Smart both return. The starting lineup is going to be poetry on the hardcourt and then the 2nd unit will be rugged, strong, athletic and defense-oriented. It's not going to be fun to play the Celtics next year.
Too slow.Well shoot. Now he’s going to kill people like Aaron Hernandez.
Last year he was in that low lottery range as an intriguing high upside project due to his insane physicals. If he could improve on the learned basketball skills as a pro his ceiling would be that of a monster. When a project like this pulls out of the draft it is often a terrible decision as the shine dims the more and more a players flaws are shown. The way I viewed him each year went from that intriguing high-upside guy to a 2nd unit role player who with a comps of Stro Swift, Chris Wilcox and Ty Thomas due to the mental part of his game seemingly lacking.(3) I'm generally skeptical, rather than excited, about grabbing guys who drop-- I usually take that as a sign that the player was probably over-rated by fans/media compared to what scouts think, rather than to assume we just got lucky and got a steal (admittedly, this is not anything specific to Williams).
This is why I really like the pick for this team where we are today. We weren't looking for a long term starter at 27. What we needed was a defensive wing/guard or.a big frontcourt player capable of providing backend rotation minutes on his cheap rookie deal. These were Ainge's realistic expectations at 27.....and with both Williams and Evans on the board he had a choice so he filled the bigger need.But again, I can get behind thinking he's a valuable pick as a 15min/g bench player who can grab some rebounds and defend certain problematic matchups, and that's a valuable get @27 and on a cheap rookie contract. I just don't see a lot of long-term upside for him turning into a regular starter.
I don't know the relationships that players have with upper management, but I thought it was awesome that Terry felt comfortable enough with Ainge to FaceTime him a few minutes before the Celtics had to send their pick in.When Rozier called Ainge to ask about the pick, Ainge had no idea he was on a live broadcast.
"sort of funny" = "going to run a lot more suicides in training camp"
If Smart and Baynes re-up, there aren't going to be a lot of spare minutes if everyone is healthy. Even if Stevens figures he can limit the minutes of his stars, Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford should play 30 mpg. The Jays should play 32. Smart and Rozier at 26 each, Morris and either Theis/Baynes at 17 minutes, and you have 240 minutes.Yup. This kid is complete gravy in 2018-2019 as long as Baynes or a Baynes equivalent comes.
Horford / Baynes / Williams
Tatum / Theis / Yabu
Hayward / Morris / Semi / Bird
Brown / Smart
Kyrie / Rozier
This team is going to be absolutely stacked next year if Baynes/Smart both return. The starting lineup is going to be poetry on the hardcourt and then the 2nd unit will be rugged, strong, athletic and defense-oriented. It's not going to be fun to play the Celtics next year.
Yeah, I understand that concern. And passing on Luka seems like a pretty huge risk. But I do think Young and Huerter — both 19 — have legitimate splashy upside in a way many of the other wannabe Warrior templates do not. This feels (to me) like a lot smarter and more credible swing for the fences than, for example, Vivek and Vlade's ham-handed picks of Fredette, McLemore, Stauskas and Hield did at the time.Not to get off topic, but my real fear here is that Schlenk is trying to treat Golden State as a plug-and-play template, instead of drafting the best players that are complementary to each other and fashioning a system out of that. That's how inferior GMs operate, in contrast to how Ainge and Stevens are working together.
Is this a "Celtics players have a good relationship with Ainge" thing or a "Danny is on call for Terry at any time of day" thing?I don't know the relationships that players have with upper management, but I thought it was awesome that Terry felt comfortable enough with Ainge to FaceTime him a few minutes before the Celtics had to send their pick in.
The most effective defense against A&M's twin towers last year was to pack in a tight zone to deny Williams and Davis deep low post position. They were still such men against boys, particularly Davis, that their offensive scheme was primarily the old inside/out game and not one that ever ran motion in the halfcourt. Spacing was non-existent for either player so we never really got a good look at Williams footwork or back to the basket game in iso.There's been talk about Williams as a pick and roll guy. He didn't do that in college--last year, depending on the stat service it was like 10-12 times all season. That seems crazy, but show's how different college ball is.
I know at the summer league last year they'd cut to the Celtics guys in the stands and you'd see Stevens, Ainge, and Smart sitting there. It was pretty cool.Is this a "Celtics players have a good relationship with Ainge" thing or a "Danny is on call for Terry at any time of day" thing?
Really hope it's the latter, for comedic reasons.
They can both start while staggering the substitution pattern to always have a scorer/shot creator on the floor with the second unit. You're never going to see that lineup mentioned earlier with 5 bricklayers out there.....it isn't necessary and this is also an effective way to get your secondary scorers their touches.It's going to be interesting to see how Stevens deploys these weapons. Everyone is assuming he starts Kyrie, the three wings, and Horford, and makes teams with traditional line ups match up with him. Does Stevens take one of Brown, Hayward, Tatum and use him like OKC did Harden in OKC, 30 minutes a game off the bench, anchoring the second unit and closing the game?
Oh yeah, absolutely - I'm sure Ainge thought it a great way to stay close to a player who might otherwise feel a little emotionally disconnected and at-risk of having his life shaken up by a trade.I don't know the relationships that players have with upper management, but I thought it was awesome that Terry felt comfortable enough with Ainge to FaceTime him a few minutes before the Celtics had to send their pick in.
This is one of the best parts of attending these games when they are in the packed 2,500 seat Cox Pavillion (as opposed to the comparatively mammoth main arena. You see coaches, players, parents, agents, their runners, as well as all the kids and fans on top of one another.......like a true summer league experience. So cool.I know at the summer league last year they'd cut to the Celtics guys in the stands and you'd see Stevens, Ainge, and Smart sitting there. It was pretty cool.
In time (maybe not this season), I think there might be stretches where you could play 4-out and run Williams out there with Kyrie, two of Hayward/Tatum/Brown, and Horford against certain lineups.They can both start while staggering the substitution pattern to always have a scorer/shot creator on the floor with the second unit. You're never going to see that lineup mentioned earlier with 5 bricklayers out there.....it isn't necessary and this is also an effective way to get your secondary scorers their touches.
Oh absolutely. Depending on Williams being mentally ready to understand defensive schemes while reacting to what the offense is looking to accomplish he could begin doing this out of the gate or very soon against teams with big 5's.In time (maybe not this season), I think there might be stretches where you could play 4-out and run Williams out there with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Horford against certain lineups.
That’s a huge lineup that’s still pretty switchable, surrounds Williams with four shooters, and gives him plenty of space to catch lobs from Kyrie in the pick-and-roll. I’m bullish enough on Williams’ passing vision to think that he may be able to make the simple reads/passes in motion after receiving the ball on the PnR.
Yup. And lazy (which obviously goes hand in hand with the pot). But he was the most skilled shot blocker I have ever seen at the college level. Too bad he never really gave the NBA a shot because he would have been a great energy big.Wasn't Sean Williams' main issue that he was an epic pot-head?
Yeah...I was kind of assuming that SRN was being sarcastic but maybe he wasn't. I also am not very high on Trae Young at all, which impacts my opinion. That Dallas pick had better bring someone good because trading Doncic for Young might look awful as soon as next year.You’d be stoked about a John Collins, Trae Young and Huerter core? Man.
Just addressing your first point, if he's ever on the floor in crunch time in the next 3-4 years he's either dramatically exceeded expectations or there was a major injury problem.Well, I haven't seen him play much, so I'll admit it's not a well informed opinion. But the things that give me pause are:
(1) The awful FT shooting, both in and of itself (will we be able to have him on the floor in crunch time, or will teams just foul him constantly), and what it portends for his shooting down the road (the lack of spacing/lane clogging that will occur with him on the floor and whether that meshes with the way the rest of the team is being built),
(2) The relatively mild improvement from his Freshman to Sophomore years (minutes didn't increase, which always seems like a red flag to me if a player isn't establishing themselves; he became a slightly more efficient shooter/rebounder, but not by huge margins),
(3) I'm generally skeptical, rather than excited, about grabbing guys who drop-- I usually take that as a sign that the player was probably over-rated by fans/media compared to what scouts think, rather than to assume we just got lucky and got a steal (admittedly, this is not anything specific to Williams).
But again, I can get behind thinking he's a valuable pick as a 15min/g bench player who can grab some rebounds and defend certain problematic matchups, and that's a valuable get @27 and on a cheap rookie contract. I just don't see a lot of long-term upside for him turning into a regular starter.
Late first round picks who make poor decisions on and off the court and have a low motor don"t typically have long careers.Well huh...
Michael Lewis referenced the Sean Williams case (via Daryl Morey) in The Undoing Project.Yup. And lazy (which obviously goes hand in hand with the pot). But he was the most skilled shot blocker I have ever seen at the college level. Too bad he never really gave the NBA a shot because he would have been a great energy big.
Ha. Yup. As a BC grad/fan, still bothered that he ruined Dudley's senior season and that team had real Final 4 potential.Michael Lewis referenced the Sean Williams case (via Daryl Morey) in The Undoing Project.
"So you got caught smoking weed your freshman and sophomore years," said the Rockets interviewer. "What happened your junior year?" Williams just shook his head and said, "they stopped testing me. And if you're not going to test me, I'm gonna smoke!"
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/readouts/the-undoing-project-a-friendship-that-changed-our-minds-3/
Perhaps he was out killing people due to reefer madness.Well huh...