This is what I'd do if I were MIN.Paul to Minnesota and you try out Wiggins for a year? Even if Wiggins is terrible he'll put up numbers on that team and he still be young enough to move with another year off that contract...
This is what I'd do if I were MIN.Paul to Minnesota and you try out Wiggins for a year? Even if Wiggins is terrible he'll put up numbers on that team and he still be young enough to move with another year off that contract...
I am inclined to start a coaching hot seat thread now. Someone is bound to have a slow start, someone is bound to get firedI don't know---seems like a lot of parity in the West. There's like 4 or 5 teams that seem ridiculous--Clips, Lakers, Rockets, Denver, Utah, plus Portland and Golden State and Spurs. I mean, that's fun.
alternatively you could say CP3 being more and more injured cost them that title instead.It took a horrific shooting performance for them to not win the title against an all time great team. How is that bad GMing?
That is fantastic return for OKC. Cannot believe the old Thunder are all gone, and that two reunite in Houston. Rockets gave up more assets than I thought anyone would, let's see if they can make it work. Russ attacking close outs, Harden getting more spot up 3s is interesting.
Was there ever any reason to believe Harden would have signed with OKC to be the third banana? That never seemed reasonable to me as he wanted his own team.The scuzzy ownership in OKC didn't want to spend the money to keep Harden, and lost the chance to go on a remarkable run. They ended up paying the tax anyways, and could not break through and get a title. Now they're looking at a long rebuild.
Rolling out Westbrook as a one man circus act every night will at least be entertaining for their fans.
He was an RFA—no one who had a shot at a max payday has ever turned that down to sign the QO.Was there ever any reason to believe Harden would have signed with OKC to be the third banana? That never seemed reasonable to me as he wanted his own team.
And then? Not sure how that helps them more than tanking—the current team plus Beal probably doesn’t make the playoffs.What if OKC used some picks to actually add a star like Beal? Get better and still have a haul of picks.
I think the team's first priority is to help Chris Paul find a landing spot. A few picks might come in handy there. Presti is supposed to be communing with Paul's agent to see what he can do.What if OKC used some picks to actually add a star like Beal? Get better and still have a haul of picks.
yea. a move for an All-Star, high salaried player (Beal) by OKC would be a head scratcher...They need to go full Hinkie at this point. Just shed salary/talent for shorter contracts, add picks/young players for the next 2 seasons. OKC fans are smart enough to understand their strategy and have experienced past success with the process.And then? Not sure how that helps them more than tanking—the current team plus Beal probably doesn’t make the playoffs.
This seems like an almost perfect spot for 2-3 year tank. As you get your young guys in, you keep having extra assets for the 5 years following that don’t get worse as you get better.
And then? Not sure how that helps them more than tanking—the current team plus Beal probably doesn’t make the playoffs.
This seems like an almost perfect spot for 2-3 year tank. As you get your young guys in, you keep having extra assets for the 5 years following that don’t get worse as you get better.
I don't think that there's a person on this forum that could completely fuck up the pick smorgasbord OKC owns in the next decade. Miss on half, and they're still getting a couple of all stars and a few legit rotation players, just based on their own picks and the adds.I think the team's first priority is to help Chris Paul find a landing spot. A few picks might come in handy there. Presti is supposed to be communing with Paul's agent to see what he can do.
Might be the opposite: Lowe’s new column hints that Presti thinks he can extract more by now flipping Paul to Miami. It will be pretty awesome when one team owns the entire 2025 draft.I think the team's first priority is to help Chris Paul find a landing spot. A few picks might come in handy there. Presti is supposed to be communing with Paul's agent to see what he can do.
Also worth noting: now that we have 3 teams with massive outstanding obligations, the odds we get a Nets situation keeps rising. In addition, none of them will have assets to deal.I don't think that there's a person on this forum that could completely fuck up the pick smorgasbord OKC owns in the next decade. Miss on half, and they're still getting a couple of all stars and a few legit rotation players, just based on their own picks and the adds.
There's likely more that they can do to that end, and there's no hurry to do it. All they really need to do now is to come up with a useful synonym for "Process".
Edit: what BH said
True dat. I guess I'm underestimating the desire of teams to take on an aging player with an awful contract.Might be the opposite: Lowe’s new column hints that Presti thinks he can extract more by now flipping Paul to Miami. It will be pretty awesome when one team owns the entire 2025 draft.
Yeah my mind is blown. At least the 2 firsts leaving Houston are top4 protected, but I haven't heard about the swaps being so.Also worth noting: now that we have 3 teams with massive outstanding obligations, the odds we get a Nets situation keeps rising. In addition, none of them will have assets to deal.
agreed. but there always seems to be some schmuck willing to pay big for past performanceWhy would anyone give up picks to obtain Chris Paul and his insane contract? There may not be a worse contract in the league right now, what do you swap for it that justifies also throwing in picks?
Totally agree re shedding the salary commitment...but that’s what I thought about Westbrook too. We’ve been through the looking glass for a few weeks now.Seems more likely a Miami trade would just be about shedding the salary commitment for OKC. Dragic and Waiters for Paul works from a cap standpoint and might actually make sense for Miami from a talent standpoint.
Waiters has to stay, so Spo can play the all EGO team of Butler, Paul, Waiters.Seems more likely a Miami trade would just be about shedding the salary commitment for OKC. Dragic and Waiters for Paul works from a cap standpoint and might actually make sense for Miami from a talent standpoint.
Miami is hard capped so it is going to have to be players from Miami, not picks ..players that OKC can flip as they want out of the luxury tax. Depending on who they get from Miami will tell whether or not OKC needs to add picks to the deal.Might be the opposite: Lowe’s new column hints that Presti thinks he can extract more by now flipping Paul to Miami. It will be pretty awesome when one team owns the entire 2025 draft.
John Wall says "Hola!"Why would anyone give up picks to obtain Chris Paul and his insane contract? There may not be a worse contract in the league right now, what do you swap for it that justifies also throwing in picks?
Yeah that would be a good deal. Some here are speculating that salary is the primary concern for OKC, specifically tax, but evidence from the Westbrook and George deals seem to indicate that accumulating picks is pretty damn important to them too.John Wall says "Hola!"
Speaking of which, if OKC wants to go full tank what better way to do it than flip Paul for John Wall plus pick(s).
John Wall is about the only one who could be matched straight up. I could see Wiggins as well.Why would anyone give up picks to obtain Chris Paul and his insane contract? There may not be a worse contract in the league right now, what do you swap for it that justifies also throwing in picks?
Oh, OKC will move Paul. And, OKC will move other players to get below the tax threshhold so they don't have to pay the repeater's tax. If OKC weren't tanking, the Thunder wouldn't have moved Jerami Grant, a player who had a reasonable salary and a good skillset. This is going to be a serious tank.Despite all the 1st they've accumulated, OKC isn't really tanking.
I mean, they already had
SGA, Adams, Gallo, Roberson, Schroeder, etc.
and now they've upgraded Westbrook to Paul (yes, upgraded. Paul is older, he's more oft injured, but when he's on the court he's a better basketball player than Westbrook).
If they don't either move some guys or have injuries to Gallo and Paul, they have a decent shot of making the playoffs.
All the elite talent is going to a handful or two of teams. 2/3 of the league has no shot.This is an extremely strange comment. Care to explain?
You are probably right, but I can imagine a world where they trade Schroeder + filler + picks for Beal and they not only make the playoffs, but contend.Oh, OKC will move Paul. And, OKC will move other players to get below the tax threshhold so they don't have to pay the repeater's tax. If OKC weren't tanking, the Thunder wouldn't have moved Jerami Grant, a player who had a reasonable salary and a good skillset. This is going to be a serious tank.
I think you can trade off assets like Adams, Gallinari, and Schroder for more picks and also add a star.And then? Not sure how that helps them more than tanking—the current team plus Beal probably doesn’t make the playoffs.
This seems like an almost perfect spot for 2-3 year tank. As you get your young guys in, you keep having extra assets for the 5 years following that don’t get worse as you get better.
Exactly. That's what I've been saying. They can continue to accumulate picks but still use some to improve the team.Despite all the 1st they've accumulated, OKC isn't really tanking.
I mean, they already had
SGA, Adams, Gallo, Roberson, Schroeder, etc.
and now they've upgraded Westbrook to Paul (yes, upgraded. Paul is older, he's more oft injured, but when he's on the court he's a better basketball player than Westbrook).
If they don't either move some guys or have injuries to Gallo and Paul, they have a decent shot of making the playoffs.
I can't find the exact numbers but my estimates is that OKC shaved about $7MM in salary with the PG trade (which is about $30MM in total savings taking into account luxury tax) and an additional $9MM with the Grant trade (approximately $39MM total savings).Yeah that would be a good deal. Some here are speculating that salary is the primary concern for OKC, specifically tax, but evidence from the Westbrook and George deals seem to indicate that accumulating picks is pretty damn important to them too.
I'm thinking Paul + Heat's 2023 1st rounder for Dragic + Olyny, works with the Heat's Wayne Ellington trade exception. Gets OKC under the tax line and saves them almost $80m over 4 years. Miami gets to roll out with Paul & Butler...Oh, OKC will move Paul. And, OKC will move other players to get below the tax threshhold so they don't have to pay the repeater's tax. If OKC weren't tanking, the Thunder wouldn't have moved Jerami Grant, a player who had a reasonable salary and a good skillset. This is going to be a serious tank.
Yikes. there are some bad contracts in the NBA, but Paul has to be in there for just its sheer size/length/age related decline and roster crippling power (like the Wall deal)Paul's contract is underwater, but it's probably not a top 5 bad contract in the NBA. Wall, Wiggins, Rozier, Klay, and Batum are all worse off the top of my head. Arguably Durant's contract is worse too given the 3+1 structure, so you're paying a 32 year-old Durant $60M/year for two years coming off a career altering injury...
It's always been this way. The handful of teams is much bigger this year tho.All the elite talent is going to a handful or two of teams. 2/3 of the league has no shot.
Instead of 1 superstar per team. You have teams with 2 or 3, and many with none.
Bird, Magic, Jordan, and Isiah won 13 straight titles.All the elite talent is going to a handful or two of teams. 2/3 of the league has no shot.
Instead of 1 superstar per team. You have teams with 2 or 3, and many with none.
You can’t add a trade exception to outgoing salary for matching purposes, it can only be used to acquire a player whose salary fits within it.I'm thinking Paul + Heat's 2023 1st rounder for Dragic + Olyny, works with the Heat's Wayne Ellington trade exception. Gets OKC under the tax line and saves them almost $80m over 4 years. Miami gets to roll out with Paul & Butler...
Miami is hard capped this year and only has around a million dollars to play with.They literally need to cut salary in any CP3 trade to make the numbers work. That means no first round picks coming back and having to either give up a useful player like Winslow to make the deal work or strip protections from the picks they already owe in order to get the Thunder to take back more flotsam like Waiters.I'm thinking Paul + Heat's 2023 1st rounder for Dragic + Olyny, works with the Heat's Wayne Ellington trade exception. Gets OKC under the tax line and saves them almost $80m over 4 years. Miami gets to roll out with Paul & Butler...
Here's what I don't understand, how does 2025 work?OKC has at least 2 first round picks in 6 of the next 7 drafts. LOL
YEAR | FIRST-ROUNDERS |
2020: | 2 (own; DEN) |
2021: | 2 (own; MIA; can swap w/HOU) |
2022: | 2 (own; LAC) |
2023: | 2 (own; MIA; can swap w/LAC) |
2024: | 3 (own; LAC; HOU) |
2025: | 1 (own; can swap with LAC/HOU) |
2026: | 3 (own; LAC; HOU) |
They can trade the rights retained by the protections, though, right? The 2023 pick is lottery-protected for each of 2023, 2024, 2025 (unprotected in 2026). So they could trade their pick if and only if it's a lottery pick (or, say, picks 4-14) in 2023, and failing that, they would have their following year's pick unencumbered because it would have conveyed already. Given that OKC themselves now own the rights to MIA's pick, I'm guessing (might be prohibited by league rules) that they could also agree to modify the protections on the pick as considerations for a deal, to add value.Miami has literally no picks to trade right now. They have traded away all of their second-round picks from 2020 through 2027, their 2021 first-round pick (to OKC) and their 2023 first-round pick (to OKC via LAC), but protected in a way that it could convey in 2024, 2025, or 2026. So, if Miami is a landing spot for Paul, it is because of the players included in the trade and not draft considerations.
Wall for Paul might actually be better for OKC's timeline - not only is Wall not playing next season, but OKC would get to keep the pick it sent to Philadelphia (it's top 20 protected, from the Markelle Fultz trade), and send two second round picks instead.Yikes. there are some bad contracts in the NBA, but Paul has to be in there for just its sheer size/length/age related decline and roster crippling power (like the Wall deal)
The bolded would blow up the Twitter-sphere, but I agree with it 100%. Be prepared to get plenty of push back around here
It’s a goal, but there’s no cap space left to dump contracts into, so it will happen next summer when guys like Gallinari leave in free agency. Had they known they were entering a forced rebuild I’m sure they would have worked with someone like Boston to create a TPE to dump Adams into, but they were caught off guard late in the game.But I'm sure one major goal for them is to get under the LT threshold to reset their repeater tax.