Saving Sale

[tims4wins]

Thought this might be worthy of a new thread (also more threads are good, right?). There's been a lot of talk about keeping Sale well rested for both the stretch run and the playoffs given how the last couple years have gone in August-October. It seems the Sox are truly making an effort to do something about it this year.

Last year, Sale made his 21st start in the team's 103rd game. This year, he made his 21st start in the team's 101st game. To date, he has thrown 187 fewer pitches through 21 starts, and if you include the All Star Game (where he threw 28 pitches last year vs. 9 this year), the gap increases to 206 fewer pitches, which is essentially the equivalent of two full starts. Since we're about 2/3 of the way through the season, this would project to three fewer starts if it continues.

Remains to be seen whether this has an effect, but 2-3 fewer starts seems significant enough to make a difference.

 

[Green Monster]

I don't have specific numbers, but if memory serves they took a much more conservative approach in spring training as well.

 

[DGreenwood]

Thinking about this like 2-3 fewer starts might actually undersell the benefits. Those 187 few pitches are all lopped off of the end of games when his arm is already fatigued. The pitches thrown in a fatigued state are the ones that put the most wear and tear on his arm.

 

[chawson]

Seems like they’re balancing this against supporting his bid for a Cy Young, which would factor innings pitched. It nets Sale another $1M, and Cora should feel obliged to help him win it.

 

[lexrageorge]

Seems like they’re balancing this against supporting his bid for a Cy Young, which would factor innings pitched. It nets Sale another $1M, and Cora should feel obliged to help him win it.

Cora's first priority is to the team, not to Sale's incentive clauses. Sale will get his starts, and will get his innings where it's deemed necessary. But his workload will continue to managed throughout the season.

 

[joe dokes]

Seems like they’re balancing this against supporting his bid for a Cy Young, which would factor innings pitched. It nets Sale another $1M, and Cora should feel obliged to help him win it.

I dont think he should feel obliged to do that.

 

[Jim Ed Rice in HOF]

Seems like they’re balancing this against supporting his bid for a Cy Young, which would factor innings pitched. It nets Sale another $1M, and Cora should feel obliged to help him win it.

This article in the spring sounds like Sale has one thing in mind and it's not the Cy or the $1M. While the article wasn't speaking specifically to reducing innings or pitches, it was talking about adjusting things to make sure he doesn't hit a wall like last year.

We’re looking at Nov. 3 or whatever it is,” Sale said, referring to a potential World Series Game 7, which is technically slated to fall on Oct. 31, barring rainouts, but close enough. “We haven’t said one time, ‘September or October.’ Every time we use only November. That’s the goal. That’s the start, middle and end. We’re not playing for the next [start]. We’re playing for the whole thing. I think for me, personally, I like where we're heading with that.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Sale is #3 in the league right now in innings pitched despite the effort to pace him. He's really only being out-thrown innings wise by Verlander (one more start), Kluber (one fewer start), and Bauer (same number of starts). I don't think his inning total will be a disqualifying factor for him in the Cy Young race, especially since Sale is out-doing them all in pretty much every other pitching category of note.

 

[koufax32]

He’s had an uptick in velocity this season (mechanics adjustment IIRC). Surely this will have an effect on his wear and tear as well.

It would be great if he were able to skip a start or two in the coming months like the Lester Plan.

 

[Jim Ed Rice in HOF]

QUOTE="koufax32, post: 2927084, member: 29386"]He’s had an uptick in velocity this season (mechanics adjustment IIRC). Surely this will have an effect on his wear and tear as well.

It would be great if he were able to skip a start or two in the coming months like the Lester Plan.[/QUOTE]
I was just looking this up when you posted.

 

[chawson]

I dont think he should feel obliged to do that.

Within reason, of course. Everyone knows October matters more, but I can't see how Cora wouldn't be conscious of it. You work with a guy every day who performs at that level and it makes sense you'd share some accountability to that goal.

Regardless, I think the pressure's off a bit now that Sale's won five straight decisions. Had to have been pretty frustrating for him to be 5-4 with a 2.83 xFIP on June 9 while Kluber (9-2), Verlander (8-2), Cole (7-1), and Severino (9-1) had essentially the same numbers.

 

[tims4wins]

Thinking about this like 2-3 fewer starts might actually undersell the benefits. Those 187 few pitches are all lopped off of the end of games when his arm is already fatigued. The pitches thrown in a fatigued state are the ones that put the most wear and tear on his arm.

This is a really good point.

 

[joyofsox]

2017 Spring Training: 5 games, 21.0 innings, 85 batters, 151 pitches
2018 Spring Training: 4 games, 14.2 innings, 60 batters, 112 pitches

The number of pitches can't be right, can it? Less than 2 per batter, in both springs? (Taken from redsox.com)

EDIT: Ignore the pitches. In 2017, the stats say Beeks faced 11 batters and threw 17 pitches. No way.

 

[joe dokes]

2017 Spring Training: 5 games, 21.0 innings, 85 batters, 151 pitches
2018 Spring Training: 4 games, 14.2 innings, 60 batters, 112 pitches

The number of pitches can't be right, can it? Less than 2 per batter, in both springs? (Taken from redsox.com)

EDIT: Ignore the pitches. In 2017, the stats say Beeks faced 11 batters and threw 17 pitches. No way.

Sounds like they get that from spring training Gameday.

 

[tims4wins]

Still though, that is 6.1 innings less. So now we're at like 3 less starts than last year at the same point.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

Can we change the thread title to Saving Saleverman?

 

[BillMuellerFanClub]

Newest Sale thread I could find, but saw this on twitter.


Absolutely stunning.

 

[soxhop411]

Per Ian Browne
Last nine starts: 67 ERA, 12 walks, 97 strikeouts in 60 innings

ALSO 0 HR

 

[RedOctober3829]

Sale has given up 1 ER in his last 39 IP. Absolutely dominating. ERA down to 2.04(FIP of 2.09 so he's been that good) and BAA down to .174. Best pitcher in baseball to this point but his reputation will be staked upon how he does going forward starting on Thursday against NY.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

In watching the pitching highlights, its clear that the vast majority of Twins hitters were simply overwhelmed with clear strikes. Sale just flat overpowered them and outright fooled them vs pitchers who paint or take advantage of a generous strike zone. Some of those guys were out before they even stepped into the box.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

Per Ian Browne
Last nine starts: 67 ERA, 12 walks, 97 strikeouts in 60 innings

ALSO 0 HR

That’s gotta be less than 9 starts. Looks like 6 starts?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

That’s gotta be less than 9 starts. Looks like 6 starts?

60 innings would be a long 6 starts.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

That’s gotta be less than 9 starts. Looks like 6 starts?

Per Browne, its nine starts for sure. Also this gem:

In the first inning, Sale struck out the side to reach 200 strikeouts for the sixth straight season. Sale reached that milestone in just 136 innings, faster than any pitcher in American League history. Sale held the previous mark, set last season in 141 1/3 innings.

 

[BillMuellerFanClub]

Scherzer notched his 200th K this evening as well, clocking in at 148 innings to the milestone. Considering he gets to face the pitcher at least twice a game, Chris Sale's feat is even more impressive.

Edit: Scherzer has 200K in 7 straight seasons. Some pretty good pitching going on these days.

 

[joyofsox]

Sale has given up 1 ER in his last 39 IP. Absolutely dominating. ERA down to 2.04(FIP of 2.09 so he's been that good) and BAA down to .174. Best pitcher in baseball to this point but his reputation will be staked upon how he does going forward starting on Thursday against NY.

He allowed no runs in the last inning of his start before that string, so it's actually 40 innings.

40 innings, 1 run. 0.23 ERA. ... 21 hits, 6 walks, 69 strikeouts.

 

[tims4wins]

In the theme of the thread, Cora definitely would have been justified in sending Sale back out for the 7th at 100 pitches based on the state of the pen - but was wise to resist.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

That’s gotta be less than 9 starts. Looks like 6 starts?

9 starts for 60 innings is about 6 2/3 innings/start which sounds right to me.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

9 starts for 60 innings is about 6 2/3 innings/start which sounds right to me.

A reminder to not post while in bed. Particularly on a night when your son has to go in tot he ER and then get appendix surgery! One week before the fam is supposed to fly to Italy!!!!

But I digress. Let's just say last night was an emotional roller coaster.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

About the K > 2 * H thing -- this has only been done three times in MLB history by ERA title qualifiers: Pedro Martinez 2000, Randy Johnson 2001, and Max Scherzer 2017. There are three pitchers who are doing it so far this year: Scherzer, Sale, and Gerrit Cole. It's particularly impressive that two of the three are pitching in the AL, where it's a somewhat tougher trick to pull off.

 

[joe dokes]

Don drysdale threw 5 straight shutouts.
Surprisingly to me, he didn't rack up big strike out numbers. His arm was probably already hamburger by 68.

 

[LesterFan]

Boston Red Sox @RedSox24s
The #RedSox today placed LHP Chris Sale on the 10-day disabled list with mild left shoulder inflammation, retroactive to July 28. To fill Sale’s spot on the 25-man roster, the club recalled RHP Brandon Workman from Triple-A Pawtucket.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Sale to the 10 day DL with shoulder inflammation per everyone.

Someone hold me pls.

 

[Wayapman]

The losses of Papi and Pedro have been softened greatly by Mookie and Sale. The Machado dustup made Sale instantly my favorite player. Dude has cajones