John Marzano Olympic Hero said:Drew definitely.
See what you can get for Uehara and Lester.
Seconded. The last 3 can contribute/hard to replace for next year.Dogman2 said:Peavy, Drew, Badenhop, Breslow, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Mujica, Carp, Ross.
Extend Lester, Miller, Koji.
Laser Show said:Seconded. The last 3 can contribute/hard to replace for next year.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:Drew definitely.
See what you can get for Uehara and Lester.
Dogman2 said:Peavy, Drew, Badenhop, Breslow, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Mujica, Carp, Ross.
Extend Lester, Miller, Koji.
Also, I need a reason to keep watching. I doubt I'm alone.Dogman2 said:Peavy, Drew, Badenhop, Breslow, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Mujica, Carp, Ross.
Extend Lester, Miller, Koji.
Watching the kids should be reason enough, imho. Let them struggle/succeed without looking over their shoulders for the last 50+ games. We're not winning this year anyhow, so I'd love to see what we've got plus the guys we'd get for the guys we move. We might be able to put together a pretty solid defensive team with decent or better bats via prospects and call-ups and then spend big money on a rotation for a couple of years until the younger arms completely take over.InsideTheParker said:Also, I need a reason to keep watching. I doubt I'm alone.
TomRicardo said:
See Drew is someone I probably wait until August to do. Hope someone foolishly puts a waiver claim on him and let him go for free.
Lester should definitely be traded if they feel that they can't have him at a price they will pay and that there is no chance this will change by the end of the season. If they are willing to come up to market rate or at least close enough that they still think they can persuade him, they should look to trade Lackey instead. One of those two needs to be in Boston next year for the team to have any chance at fielding a competitive team, though. And, of course, the Red Sox coming to the conclusion that they can still get a deal done with Lester could well be a miscalculation on their part, but we don't know enough about the internal discussions to make a good guess there, so we'll have to wait and see.
jacklamabe65 said:I must admit, I cracked up when I saw the title of this thread.
Red Sox 40-man roster | age | salary | keep/sell? | trade value | fixer-upper | |
Burke Badenhop | RP | 31 | 2.15m | gfi 2015 | medium | |
Craig Breslow | RP | 33 | 3.83m | SELL! | low | performance |
Clay Buchholz | SP | 29 | 7.95m | gfi 2015 | medium | performance |
Rubby De La Rosa | SP | 25 | keep | |||
Felix Doubront | SP | 26 | 586K | SELL! | high | performance |
John Lackey | SP | 35 | 15.95m | gfi 2015 | high | |
Jon Lester | SP | 30 | 13m | gfi 2015 | very high | |
Andrew Miller | RP | 29 | 1.9m | gfi 2015 | high | |
Edward Mujica | RP | 30 | 4.75m | available | low | price, performance |
Jake Peavy | SP | 33 | 16.1m | SELL! | medium | price |
Junichi Tazawa | RP | 28 | 1.73m | gfi 2015 | very high | |
Koji Uehara | RP | 39 | 5m | gfi 2015 | high | |
David Ross | C | 37 | 3.1m | low | ||
Christian Vazquez | C | 23 | keep | |||
Xander Bogaerts | SS | 21 | 517K | keep | ||
Mike Carp | 1B | 28 | 1.4m | available | low | performance |
Stephen Drew | SS | 31 | 14m | SELL! | low | price, performance |
Brock Holt | 3B | 26 | available | medium | ||
Will Middlebrooks DL15 | 3B | 25 | 541K | SELL! | medium | performance |
Mike Napoli | 1B | 32 | 16m | gfi 2015 | medium | price |
Dustin Pedroia | 2B | 30 | 12.83m | keep | ||
David Ortiz | DH | 38 | 15.5m | keep | ||
Jackie Bradley Jr. | CF | 24 | 502K | keep | ||
Jonny Gomes | LF | 33 | 5m | SELL! | medium | |
Daniel Nava | OF | 31 | 556K | available | medium | |
Shane Victorino | RF | 33 | 13m | gfi 2015 | medium | price |
Mookie Betts | CF | 21 | available | high | ||
Garin Cecchini | 3B | 23 | available | medium | ||
Alex Hassan | RF | 26 | available | low | ||
Jonathan Herrera | SS | 29 | 1.3m | low | ||
Anthony Ranaudo | SP | 24 | keep | |||
Allen Webster | SP | 24 | keep | |||
Brandon Workman | SP | 25 | keep | |||
Steven Wright | SP | 29 | 502K | available | low |
Package what you get for Lester/Peavy/etc without having to clean out the Sox Prospects cupboard for Stanton. The only guy I'd like to see the Sox go beyond 6 years at this point. Sign him long-term, put him in RF, and replenish the rotation in the off-season. We'll be very competitive next year with that combination of young talent.Detts said:Badenhop
Breslow
Britton
Miller
Mujica
Peavy
Uehara
Ross (bring up Butler)
Carp
Drew
Gomes
Victorino
Lester (if blown out of the water).
And trade for bats. We need bats.
“What you have to understand is that under Tony Clark, the Players Association has become heavily involved in all contract negotiations. They want players to get what they perceive as their fair market value, which means they would like to see the big players like Lester and Max Scherzer go to the market, get the bidding rolling and help players throughout the industry.”
For example, one National League team thought it had longterm deals with pre-arbitration players done, only to have the agents come back and say the union would not accept the deals; they finally reached agreements, but at higher numbers. One AL GM had the same experience. There are several general managers who felt that is why the Indians never reached a deal in March with Justin Masterson.
When the Red Sox sat down with Lester in March, he told friends he wanted one dollar more than Homer Bailey’s six year, $105M. Now, $140M doesn’t seem out of reach on the market. “I don’t see anything less than $120M at this point,” says one NL GM. “The union is not accepting hometown discounts.”
this is pretty accurateDogman2 said:Peavy, Drew, Badenhop, Breslow, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Mujica, Carp, Ross.
Extend Lester, Miller, Koji.
So would the MLBPA even allow a Longoria type extension, when a player is years away from FA? or are those type of deals a thing of the past also?mabrowndog said:In Gammons' latest piece, he points out something that I hadn't really paid attention to -- and I don't think may others have either when it comes to Lester's situation:
Pedroia's bargain-basement deal would never have been approved by the MLBPA had Clark been in charge. And despite Lester's stated willingness to take less-than-market in order to remain in Boston, any "discount" is going to be negligible:
So not only will any deal Lester might sign with Boston be pretty much market rate, but so will any deal Giancarlo Stanton might sign with the Marlins.
This means Stanton's likely more in play for Boston than any of us realize, despite Miami's statements to the contrary. I just don't see them locking him up for the $30M+ annually over 7+ seasons that he (and the union) are likely going to require.
It also means the Sox should absolutely trade Lester now, as painful a decision as that might be.
So yeah, it's time to start stockpiling any and all talent that Miami might covet (Gammons cites Corey Seager from the Dodgers), while also procuring lower-level prospects that wouldn't immediately require spots on Boston's 40-man roster or need Rule 5 protection this winter.
Adios/GTFO to:
EXPIRING CONTRACTS
Lester
Drew
Miller
Uehara
Gomes
Badenhop
Carp
Peavy
Breslow
Lavarnway
UNDER CONTRACT, BUT I'M SICK OF THEIR SHIT
Mujica
Doubront
The only pending free agent I'd retain is Ross, who has pretty much no deadline deal value but is a guy I see as a huge key to the continuing development of Vazquez and the young pitchers -- as well as Swihart when he arrives sometime next season. So I want the Blue Wolf back for another year, assuming he's willing to return, and would love to seem him stay on as a coach once his playing days are done.
As for Koji, I believe they'll be able to re-sign him this winter even if they trade him at the deadline. Miller will be a much harder guy to bring back, as someone's going to give him the 3 years/>$25M he's likely to command.
Is it completely out of the realm of possibility to give him a golden parachute of sorts, overpay him grossly as a coach to retire this offseason, given his age and concussion history? Would the union care about such a possibility?mabrowndog said:
The only pending free agent I'd retain is Ross, who has pretty much no deadline deal value but is a guy I see as a huge key to the continuing development of Vazquez and the young pitchers -- as well as Swihart when he arrives sometime next season. So I want the Blue Wolf back for another year, assuming he's willing to return, and would love to seem him stay on as a coach once his playing days are done.
The Union may look askance at home town discounts but they have no power to reject the contract. If a player wanted to sign for a Dollar a year they would have to accept it.mabrowndog said:In Gammons' latest piece, he points out something that I hadn't really paid attention to -- and I don't think may others have either when it comes to Lester's situation:
Pedroia's bargain-basement deal would never have been approved by the MLBPA had Clark been in charge. And despite Lester's stated willingness to take less-than-market in order to remain in Boston, any "discount" is going to be negligible:
So not only will any deal Lester might sign with Boston be pretty much market rate, but so will any deal Giancarlo Stanton might sign with the Marlins.
This means Stanton's likely more in play for Boston than any of us realize, despite Miami's statements to the contrary. I just don't see them locking him up for the $30M+ annually over 7+ seasons that he (and the union) are likely going to require.
It also means the Sox should absolutely trade Lester now, as painful a decision as that might be.
So yeah, it's time to start stockpiling any and all talent that Miami might covet (Gammons cites Corey Seager from the Dodgers), while also procuring lower-level prospects that wouldn't immediately require spots on Boston's 40-man roster or need Rule 5 protection this winter.
Adios/GTFO to:
EXPIRING CONTRACTS
Lester
Drew
Miller
Uehara
Gomes
Badenhop
Carp
Peavy
Breslow
Lavarnway
UNDER CONTRACT, BUT I'M SICK OF THEIR SHIT
Mujica
Doubront
The only pending free agent I'd retain is Ross, who has pretty much no deadline deal value but is a guy I see as a huge key to the continuing development of Vazquez and the young pitchers -- as well as Swihart when he arrives sometime next season. So I want the Blue Wolf back for another year, assuming he's willing to return, and would love to seem him stay on as a coach once his playing days are done.
As for Koji, I believe they'll be able to re-sign him this winter even if they trade him at the deadline. Miller will be a much harder guy to bring back, as someone's going to give him the 3 years/>$25M he's likely to command.
BCsMightyJoeYoung said:The Union may look askance at home town discounts but they have no power to reject the contract. If a player wanted to sign for a Dollar a year they would have to accept it.
[Edit: actually he would have to receive the minimum .. But there's still nothing the Union could do about it]
soxhop411 said:So would the MLBPA even allow a Longoria type extension, when a player is years away from FA? or are those type of deals a thing of the past also?
That then raises again why the RS made a preposterous offer in Feb. if there is no hope of anything in the neighborhood being accepted, why bother?mabrowndog said:
The outright acceptance/rejection of a deal may not be a direct empowerment under the CBA, but it's an accurate depiction of the realistic power and influence held and exerted by the union and its current leadership. I mean, anyone with a job has the right to tell their boss to fuck off and to urinate on their desk while doing so, but how realistic is that scenario ever playing out without consequences?
Why else would the agents, as noted in Gammons' piece, be returning to clubs to get them to increase the value of deals already agreed to in principle? If the player really and truly had the "ability" or "right" to agree to those discounted deals, why didn't they do so?
Clark is miles above Donald Fehr's peak height on the union totem pole, and he clearly plays harder ball than Michael Weiner did.
I approve this list. I agree with looking for value for Middlebrooks because Bogaerts is the 3B of the future.Dogman2 said:Peavy, Drew, Badenhop, Breslow, Gomes, Middlebrooks, Mujica, Carp, Ross.
Extend Lester, Miller, Koji.
I think that list is obviously best case scenario.Plympton91 said:I approve this list. I agree with looking for value for Middlebrooks because Bogaerts is the 3B of the future.
As I've said in multiple forums, resigning Miller is almost more important than resigning Koji, given the difference in age. This organization isn't serious about contending in 2015 unless they're going to sign those three players or sign or trade for their functional equivalents.
Agree. Every day they wait reduces what they can get. Lester's value is the number of starts he has remaining in 2014, which ain't a lot.bosockboy said:I've come around on moving Lester. He's pitching lights out, Price is off the market, it's a perfect storm to get a huge haul.
Start getting pieces to move for Stanton.
I was thinking the exact same thing. This is a last place team that is losing it's #1 pitcher, a guy who if King Felix gets injured will be the Cy Young winner this year. Yeah, just imagine this team without Lester this year.Rudy Pemberton said:As bad as they are this year, couldn't the 2015 team be even worse? And the 2016 team...good God. I get the minor league depth and all that, but there's a real scarcity of above average major league ready talent in the system, and I'm struggling to see how they replace all the players potentially leaving in the next year and a half. Hopefully Good Ben shows up this trading deadline and offseason.
Rudy Pemberton said:As bad as they are this year, couldn't the 2015 team be even worse? And the 2016 team...good God. I get the minor league depth and all that, but there's a real scarcity of above average major league ready talent in the system, and I'm struggling to see how they replace all the players potentially leaving in the next year and a half. Hopefully Good Ben shows up this trading deadline and offseason.