Send Jedi to the Glue Factory

Toe Nash · May 7, 2015

I think he gets another start or two, but I agree that he should be moved. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he would be any better out of the pen unless he can find velocity. But I guess he can be the long man we have been hoping for, and using him as a reliever wouldn't allow opposing managers to stack their lineups with lefties against him (though they could pinch hit in a key situation).

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat · May 7, 2015

Johnson has had two extremely wild outings in a row(10 BB, 4 WP). Wright's AAA BB/9 is basically the same as Masterson's in the bigs. It is unlikely that either of them would be an improvement right now. Masterson may be doing it with smoke and mirrors, but out of his 6 starts, only 2 have been bad, from a results perspective. The other 4--

vs NYY 6 IP, 2 ER
@Balt 7 IP, 3 ER
vs Balt 5 IP, 1 ER
@ Phil 6 IP, 2 ER

He'll definitely get more starts, and he should.

Puffy · May 7, 2015

Todd Benzinger said:
This team seems to be going nowhere (or nowhere good) right now. Maybe it is reactionary, but I would like to see the Sox try out some of the options they've built in before the team is completely buried in the standings.

It may be reactionary, but I had the same thought after last night. The pen looks like it's going to need a long man anyway - I mean Breslow has pitched just 7 fewer innings than Wade Miley - and Mujica, Tazawa, and Ogando are right behind him.

Masterson is a one-year flyer anyway. This seems to be a continuation of last year's trend with too many walks and significantly diminishing velocity, only worse. Batters are all over him - he's not striking out as many, he's not even getting many swinging strikes, and he's probably getting lucky with HR. I have more faith that Kelley and Miley will turn it around than Masterson at this stage. But yeah, maybe it is reactionary.

radsoxfan · May 7, 2015

Given the other options, I suppose another start or two is reasonable. Having said that, I'm not sure how we can expect much better. His velocity if down another 2 mph from last year (87 mph fastball avg this season), when it was supposedly down because of injury. Plus he has no clue where the ball is going.

He's getting by (sort of) on movement, deception, and a bunch of luck. But theres no way it is going to last. I'd rather make the move a start too early than a start too late.

I joked in the game thread that they should MRI his elbow, shoulder, knee, brain, and anything else they can think of. Even if he isn't complaining of any pain/weakness, hard to imagine something isn't wrong physically.

Puffy · May 7, 2015

radsoxfan said:
I joked in the game thread that they should MRI his elbow, shoulder, knee, brain, and anything else they can think of. Even if he isn't complaining of any pain/weakness, hard to imagine something isn't wrong physically.

It reminds me in a lot of ways of John Lackey in 2010 and 2011, when he started losing command and was striking out fewer batters, walking more, and getting hit harder. Lackey didn't suffer from the loss in velocity, but his pitches seemed to lack the same bite as before. Masterson looks like he's serving up a lot of slop out there with little ability to control it. Luckily he's still generating a lot of ground balls, but it really seems like mostly smoke and mirrors.

Clears Cleaver · May 7, 2015

I seen him pitch twice in person. He cannot put away hitters and loses velcocty after 50 pitches or so. And he touched 90 once yesterday, similar to previous starts. He's not good enough to be a major league starter, I don't think he's good enough to be a reliever, either. Farrell cost him yesterday by not taking him out earlier when his fastball dropped to 84mph, but fact is he shouldn't be starting period.

If they had any viable options he'd be DL'd and sent to FL. It was a cheap flyer relatively speaking but its not working and not geting better. Given that the other four starters don't pitch many innings and the bullpen is shaky at best, I think you need to find someone who can replace Masterson sooner rather than later.

PrometheusWakefield · May 7, 2015

radsoxfan said:
Given the other options, I suppose another start or two is reasonable. Having said that, I'm not sure how we can expect much better. His velocity if down another 2 mph from last year (87 mph fastball avg this season), when it was supposedly down because of injury. Plus he has no clue where the ball is going.

He's getting by (sort of) on movement, deception, and a bunch of luck. But theres no way it is going to last. I'd rather make the move a start too early than a start too late.

I joked in the game thread that they should MRI his elbow, shoulder, knee, brain, and anything else they can think of. Even if he isn't complaining of any pain/weakness, hard to imagine something isn't wrong physically.

I wouldn't say he's getting by at all.

The thing is, when you've got a track record of being successful at 91-92, and you're now throwing 87, it's not a matter of regaining past success, it's a matter of reinventing yourself as a pitcher. And for every pitcher who can reinvent themselves, there are three who can't. I don't see any reason to expect any better results from Masterson going forward.

Meanwhile, Eduardo Rodriguez has thrown two walks in 24.2 innings. Two. ERA of 1.82 and FIP of 2.34.

threecy · May 7, 2015

I wasn't let down when Masterson left the Sox a few years ago, as I thought his mechanics would lead to a decline. I wasn't expecting the Sox to get him back for his decline.

Snodgrass'Muff · May 7, 2015

Todd Benzinger said:
I for one would much rather see what Brian Johnson or Steven Wright can do, never mind ERod. I get the argument that ERod may well need more AAA time. But Johnson and Wright need to get a shot in the majors.

I feel compelled to point out that Johnson actually has one LESS inning at triple-A than Rodriguez. Both guys need more time.

czar · May 7, 2015

I mused about this on Twitter yesterday evening, but it is extremely difficult to find peripheral stats which indicate Masterson (as currently exists) can be an effective SP.

Velocity? Obviously down.
Stuff (K%, SwStr%, etc.)? Down.
Control (BB%, F-Strike%)? Down.
GB%? Down.

I guess his SIERA (and therefore batted ball profile) wasn't TERRIBLE last year, and if he could repeat it, he'd be an OK 4/5 starter. But I consider myself to be on the far left of the "DO SOMETHING!" spectrum, and even I think the team has to internally be considering him moving him to the pen ASAP.

Some point out that Miley has been equally bad this year, and that's true. But Miley at least put up serviceable numbers last year, so we're talking about a handful of starts in the "suck" sample size. Masterson is rapidly approaching something like 30 starts since he was an effective AL SP.

FanSinceBoggs · May 7, 2015

I'm not sure if E.Rodriguez or B.Johnson need more time. To be sure, they have limited experience at the AAA level, but they have sufficient AA experience and that can sometimes be enough. When a pitcher is ready to face a bigger challenge, extra work at AAA for the sake of meeting a kind of "quota" isn't always necessary. They may want to keep them down for now to control IP, but it would make sense to promote at least one of them in the near future for short term gain most likely (Masterson is a waste of space) and for the benefit of subsequent seasons.

PrometheusWakefield · May 7, 2015

Snodgrass'Muff said:
I feel compelled to point out that Johnson actually has one LESS inning at triple-A than Rodriguez. Both guys need more time.

Maybe. But there have been plenty of recent examples of pitchers having success with less minor league time and at younger ages than Rodriguez is now.

Jose Fernandez was an ace quality starter at 20 with no time at AA or AAA at all. He's only 8 months older than Rodriguez today.

Chris Sale spent exactly 12 innings in the minors before his call up to the major league bullpen at 21.

Michael Wacha was successful out of the gate with fewer innings at AA and AAA than Rodriguez has now.

Iif there were specific things to work on I could understand this line of thinking more but I don't really buy the argument that he needs more time in the minors simply because he hasn't had much time at AAA yet. Especially since the two things you usually look for right off the top in young pitcher development - control and good off speed stuff - he apparently is demonstrating potential elite abilities.

Rasputin · May 7, 2015

I am all for shifting Masterson to the 'pen and calling up Rodriguez. Sure, it's a gamble, but the Sox don't really have much to lose, do they?

I think the only real downside is if you think Rodriguez could somehow be ruined by being brought up too early, but it has to have been in their mind to bring him up sometime this year.

It's not like he's been good at AAA, he's been brilliant.

Red(s)HawksFan · May 7, 2015

PrometheusWakefield said:
Maybe. But there have been plenty of recent examples of pitchers having success with less minor league time and at younger ages than Rodriguez is now.

Jose Fernandez was an ace quality starter at 20 with no time at AA or AAA at all. He's only 8 months older than Rodriguez today.

Chris Sale spent exactly 12 innings in the minors before his call up to the major league bullpen at 21.

Michael Wacha was successful out of the gate with fewer innings at AA and AAA than Rodriguez has now.

Iif there were specific things to work on I could understand this line of thinking more but I don't really buy the argument that he needs more time in the minors simply because he hasn't had much time at AAA yet. Especially since the two things you usually look for right off the top in young pitcher development - control and good off speed stuff - he apparently is demonstrating potential elite abilities.

This kinda reads like the comparisons on another thread between Bogaerts and the early careers of phenom superstar players like Trout and Harper. It's not really a fair comparison to point to three guys who are/were All-Star and Cy Young caliber pitchers from the start and expect every young pitcher to perform similarly upon their debut. While both our guys are highly regarded, I don't think anyone is projecting them to be Chris Sale or Jose Fernandez from the jump.

Everything I've read about Johnson in particular pegs him as a potential middle/back end of the rotation guy, not a future ace. Two years ago, it was Rubby De La Rosa and Alan Webster who were touted as guys with ace potential, and they didn't exactly come out of the gate with their hair on fire. There is clearly the potential for Johnson and Rodriguez to be ace-like from the first pitch of their careers, but it's more likely they're going to meet some struggles after they arrive.

I think part of the process of leaving a pitcher (or a hitter for that matter) at a particular level for a length of time is to see if there are highs and lows and how they handle them. If they're brought through the system quickly because they succeed without every experiencing a dip or bump in the road, what happens when they inevitably hit those bumps at the big league level?

Rasputin · May 7, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
I think part of the process of leaving a pitcher (or a hitter for that matter) at a particular level for a length of time is to see if there are highs and lows and how they handle them. If they're brought through the system quickly because they succeed without every experiencing a dip or bump in the road, what happens when they inevitably hit those bumps at the big league level?

They learn to deal with it at the major league level the way Bogaerts is. But here's the thing, Eduardo Rodriguez has already struggled. We just weren't paying attention because he was in the Orioles system at the time.

Red(s)HawksFan · May 7, 2015

Rasputin said:
They learn to deal with it at the major league level the way Bogaerts is. But here's the thing, Eduardo Rodriguez has already struggled. We just weren't paying attention because he was in the Orioles system at the time.

Obviously that's what they do, but look at the handwringing over Bogaerts...if Johnson or Rodriguez aren't any better than Masterson or Miley are, aren't we right back in the same place? I'm only trying to point out that the grass isn't necessarily greener with the kids than it is with the current guys, at least as far as the next 3-4 months go. The expectation seems to be that the Sox should shitcan Masterson (or shuffle him to the pen) because Johnson or Rodriguez will assuredly bring better results. I'm optimistic about the prospects, but not that optimistic.

We just did the "let the kids play and deal with the growing pains" thing last year, and clearly those "kids" weren't good enough since they're all gone. I just think it's too early to go that route with this season too.

Rasputin · May 7, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
Obviously that's what they do, but look at the handwringing over Bogaerts...if Johnson or Rodriguez aren't any better than Masterson or Miley are, aren't we right back in the same place? I'm only trying to point out that the grass isn't necessarily greener with the kids than it is with the current guys, at least as far as the next 3-4 months go. The expectation seems to be that the Sox should shitcan Masterson (or shuffle him to the pen) because Johnson or Rodriguez will assuredly bring better results. I'm optimistic about the prospects, but not that optimistic.

We just did the "let the kids play and deal with the growing pains" thing last year, and clearly those "kids" weren't good enough since they're all gone. I just think it's too early to go that route with this season too.

Well, they aren't all gone. Bogaerts is still the everyday shortstop and Bradley's sitting there raking in AAA.

One of the things the Sox need to figure out before the off season is whether Owens, Johnson, and Rodriguez can do the job. Maybe that works better if you bring them up in July, but now is when the team is struggling.

alwyn96 · May 7, 2015

FanSinceBoggs said:
I'm not sure if E.Rodriguez or B.Johnson need more time. To be sure, they have limited experience at the AAA level, but they have sufficient AA experience and that can sometimes be enough. When a pitcher is ready to face a bigger challenge, extra work at AAA for the sake of meeting a kind of "quota" isn't always necessary. They may want to keep them down for now to control IP, but it would make sense to promote at least one of them in the near future for short term gain most likely (Masterson is a waste of space) and for the benefit of subsequent seasons.

Johnson seems to be widely considered the most "polished" and "knows how to pitch" of the SP prospects, although his stuff isn't on the level of Rodriguez. He's also the oldest and seems the most likely to not totally crap the bed if called up. Unfortunately he's not currently on the 40-man, but it seems like we may see a few more DFAs soon anyway if things don't turn around a little.

Red(s)HawksFan · May 7, 2015

Rasputin said:
Well, they aren't all gone. Bogaerts is still the everyday shortstop and Bradley's sitting there raking in AAA.

One of the things the Sox need to figure out before the off season is whether Owens, Johnson, and Rodriguez can do the job. Maybe that works better if you bring them up in July, but now is when the team is struggling.

I was specifically referring to the pitching, not the hitting. RDLR, Webster, Ranaudo (36 collective starts)...all gone.

Honestly, I'm all for seeing what the kids have and dealing with the growing pains that might come, but I'm also not quite ready to throw in the towel on the current rotation when only 17% of the season has been played.

If the desire is to turn the ship around and continue to make a push for post-season contention, I don't think the way to do that is to throw the young guys in the water to sink or swim right now. If the desire is to see what we have with the kids, post-season chances be damned (with the slim chance that a post-season run is still a possibility), then by all means bring up Johnson and Rodriguez ASAP and let's see how it plays out.

That can all change if we're in exactly the same position 4-6 weeks from now, of course.

czar · May 7, 2015

Rudy Pemberton said:
Steven Wright is older than Masterson. I think Masterson returning to form is more likely than Wright becoming a major league pitcher.

This is a cheap argument.

Aside from the points TB posted above me, Masterson has shown signs of physical and peripheral decline.

Tim Lincecum is younger than a lot of late-blooming pitchers (and with a MUCH better pedigree than Masterson's 2 above-average seasons), but I wouldn't touch him would a ten-foot pole right now.

If Masterson was pitching like Buchholz or Kelly, I'd say "don't touch," but I can't imagine than any of our Triple-A arms would have looked worse than Masterson did last night. What's particularly scary is he hasn't had "fluky" bad starts, but there are a lot of red flags that haven't been addressed since the beginning of last season (velocity, control, etc.).

Rasputin · May 7, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
I was specifically referring to the pitching, not the hitting. RDLR, Webster, Ranaudo (36 collective starts)...all gone.

Then your characterization is wrong. The bulk of those starts came after the team made the decision to punt on 2014.

The trusting in the youngsters that happened that cost winds was at the beginning of the season with Bogaerts and Bradley.

pokey_reese · May 7, 2015

One other thing in terms of the track record/time in the minors/projectability of EdRod is that he seems to have really found some sustainable extra velocity over the last year. When we got him last year, I remember reading in chats/prospect write-ups that the question with him was whether or not he would get back to being 94-95 with his fastball instead of the 92-93 he had while struggling with the Orioles, and that much of his success with us last season was attributed to the fact that he did indeed find that extra MPH or two.

This year, there are reports of him throwing 97-98-99 mph. If he is controlling that kind of gas (and the two walks suggest that he is), and can throw his secondary pitch also for strikes, he has a good chance to get big league hitters out. Now, command is another matter, and we know that MLB hitters can catch up to any fastball, but I haven't heard any reports on that. Who has seen him down there? Could it be a matter of the team seeing that he is missing his spots, but getting away with it because MiLB guys can't catch up with the mistakes anyway? Or that his FB is ready but that it's masking problems he is having throwing his breaking ball for strikes? That might be a reason to keep him down.

Red(s)HawksFan · May 7, 2015

Rasputin said:
Then your characterization is wrong. The bulk of those starts came after the team made the decision to punt on 2014.

The trusting in the youngsters that happened that cost winds was at the beginning of the season with Bogaerts and Bradley.

I'm not talking about costing wins. I'm talking about abandoning the plan and effectively punting the season, at least from a pitching standpoint. They did that when they traded Lester, Lackey, Peavy and Doubront to give starts to RDLR, Ranuado, Webster, and Workman.

They're not about to do that again in May. Come June/July, it might be a different story.

Rasputin · May 7, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
Honestly, I'm all for seeing what the kids have and dealing with the growing pains that might come, but I'm also not quite ready to throw in the towel on the current rotation when only 17% of the season has been played.

I don't think replacing one guy is throwing in the towel. Especially when the guy you're replacing is a guy who has spent his whole career with the kind of platoon split that screams bullpen.

Super Nomario · May 7, 2015

Rasputin said:
Well, they aren't all gone. Bogaerts is still the everyday shortstop and Bradley's sitting there raking in AAA.

One of the things the Sox need to figure out before the off season is whether Owens, Johnson, and Rodriguez can do the job. Maybe that works better if you bring them up in July, but now is when the team is struggling.

It used to be one of the Bill James / Sabermetrics core tenets that minor league statistics, properly interpreted, can predict future major league performance just as well as major league statistics. Is that no longer considered to be true?

bellowthecat · May 7, 2015

I am all for this. I think he will be a legitimate upgrade to the pen right now. His numbers so far this year are terrible against RHH and LHH, but I think if he's allowed to pitch fewer innings he'll find success against RHHs once again. Replace him with one of Rodriguez or Johnson and let's see what they can do. Of course they could be worse than Masterson, but I am optimistic and think that at worse you get the same rotation performance with a bump in bullpen performance. I think no matter what Masterson will be the first guy to fall out of the rotation because of his short contract. And I just don't see them giving up on Clay now when they could have been justified in doing so many times over his career already.

WenZink · May 7, 2015

Super Nomario said:
It used to be one of the Bill James / Sabermetrics core tenets that minor league statistics, properly interpreted, can predict future major league performance just as well as major league statistics. Is that no longer considered to be true?

I think I remember Brian Kenny posing that same question to James on one of the MLB.TV winter shows, and James corrected him with "Minor league statistics have predictive value that should not be ignored." Which is stating the obvious, IMO, except that sometimes you see a player like Wade Boggs who had to spend 6.5 seasons hitting the ball before he wasn't ignored.

Obviously, there are some flaws that may allow a prospect to succeed in the minors that are prove to be fatal when exposed in the majors. And, conversely, there are instances where a prospect may come to the majors and benefit from the MLB environment (e.g. a Pitcher that induces ground balls having the advantage of better fielders and improved field conditions.)

Rasputin · May 7, 2015

Super Nomario said:
It used to be one of the Bill James / Sabermetrics core tenets that minor league statistics, properly interpreted, can predict future major league performance just as well as major league statistics. Is that no longer considered to be true?

I don't believe "just as well" was ever a part.

alwyn96 · May 7, 2015

Rasputin said:
I don't believe "just as well" was ever a part.

"Minor league batting statistics will predict major league batting performance with essentially the same reliability as previous major league statistics." - The Bill James Baseball Abstract, New York 1988.

Rasputin · May 7, 2015

alwyn96 said:
"Minor league batting statistics will predict major league batting performance with essentially the same reliability as previous major league statistics." - The Bill James Baseball Abstract, New York 1988.

Okay, well, I don't think most people actually believe that and you'll note that not only did he qualify the statement in 1988, he said something very different more recently so yes, maybe that changed.

There's an adjustment period. Most players who perform well on the minors can make the adjustments and some can't.

If there's no difference then why I'd Owens not regarded as a future ace when his results are so good?

I don't know if now is the perfect time to bring up Rodriguez, I suspect it's not, but I don't there's much harm that can be done to him in the process.

alwyn96 · May 7, 2015

Rasputin said:
Okay, well, I don't think most people actually believe that and you'll note that not only did he qualify the statement in 1988, he said something very different more recently so yes, maybe that changed.

There's an adjustment period. Most players who perform well on the minors can make the adjustments and some can't.

If there's no difference then why I'd Owens not regarded as a future ace when his results are so good?

I don't know if now is the perfect time to bring up Rodriguez, I suspect it's not, but I don't there's much harm that can be done to him in the process.

Not sure what you mean by qualify, but James certainly believed strongly in it in 1988. Things change, though. I haven't seen him disavow it recently, but there's a lot of stuff on the internet. James isn't saying there's no difference in the quality of play, but that the predictive abilities of the stats from each league are similar. I would also note that the quote applies to hitting stats, not pitching stats. I would imagine there's some predictive information in pitching stats, but James doesn't go there in that quote. TINSTAAPP, and all that. I would say Owens did have a tiny ace-buzz around him - which may be part of the reason he's not in Philadelphia right now. Of course, his results right now aren't quite as exciting.

On the other hand, it's not like everything James says is gospel or that it may be more or less true today then when he said it. Teams seem (to me, anyway) more willing lately to bring up very young players who they believe are ready, so it's possible that the overall quality of play in AAA is lower compared to MLB than it was then. That might mean you would need to apply a different adjustment factor to the data, however, not that they're useless.

I certainly agree that I'd like to see Rodriguez, just for fun, although I don't know if it's the best time either. What I'd really like is just for the pitching (and hitting!) to get better. I'm not real picky on how that happens.

Monbo Jumbo · May 7, 2015

Todd Benzinger said:
...

Even moreso, if they don't give Wright a shot he'll be gone. I know his control has been lousy in AAA this year, but he is a knuckleballer. He's had periods of brilliance. Why not give him a chance in the majors before we run out of time? Even if he's terrible, it will be more interesting than seeing Jedi struggle.

Both Wright's BB and SO numbers are up this year, though he may be settling down. The interesting possibility, based on the minuscule sample of his single MLB appearance this year, is that he may have added 1 or 2 mph to his knuckleball. Can he regain his 2014 control and keep that little bit of extra on the pitch? It still seems like he's developing, and those (Rudy) writing off any upside are not examining the details.

ponchsox · May 7, 2015

Why Jedi? Move Miley and call up Rodriguez.

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat · May 7, 2015

ponchsox said:
Why Jedi? Move Miley and call up Rodriguez.

Why?

jasail · May 7, 2015

ponchsox said:
Why Jedi? Move Miley and call up Rodriguez.

Age, contract length, stuff and recent history all indicate that Miley, not Masterson, is the guy to ride it out with. Plus, Masterson could feature as a ROOGY and long man out of the pen, which would mix well with the arms they already have back there. A pen of Koji - Taz - Barnes - Ogando - Masterson - Layne - Ross could be pretty decent.

So, to reiterate BMHH's question, why Masterson?

The Gray Eagle · May 7, 2015

"Jedi" is not a very fitting nickname for this version of Masterson. Better would be Battered Masterson.

Battered Masterson fits right into the rotation with Clay Buckles, LP-Miley, Poor Cello and Boom-Boom Kelly.

Darnell's Son · May 7, 2015

He's the Hayden Christesen of Jedis.

O Captain! My Captain! · May 7, 2015

Why Masterson makes sense for the bullpen:

Lost velocity and declining velocity over starts means that he might gain something from pitching in shorter stints. His problem isn't control necessarily, but stuff, which means that he might be more likely to be effective if he can improve his velocity. He has a smallish (three pitch: four/two seam fastball, slider. He's completely ditched his changeup which he throws to LHB in 2015) repertoire, which tends to work better over a short span pitching rather than multiple times through the order. He's historically had a huge handedness split, which suggests he might be way better if the manager could pick his spots with him. This is especially relevant given that as a starter he has to face lineups stacked with LHH as he did in the MFY game recently.

JBJ_HOF · May 7, 2015

O Captain! My Captain! said:
His problem isn't control necessarily, but stuff

The guy with historically bad control that was horrific last year and a tick worse this year and that has 20 HBP and 17 wild pitches in his last 160 innings?

keninten · May 7, 2015

Wouldn`t it help EdRod or Johnson to take a couple turns in the rotation to see what they have to work on? Have Masterson work out of the pen for a couple weeks knowing if he gets his shit together he can claim his spot back.

radsoxfan · May 8, 2015

JBJ_HOF said:
The guy with historically bad control that was horrific last year and a tick worse this year and that has 20 HBP and 17 wild pitches in his last 160 innings?

Yeah, I'm not sure how control isn't a major issue as well. 5BB/9 innings this year, and coming off a game with 6 walks in 4 innings. It's all a problem…velocity, control, command. I suppose in comparison to the massive velocity drop, the control is a slightly less gigantic problem?

I'm not particularly bullish on Masterson's bullpen chances either to be honest, since all signs point to something being physically wrong with him. But I'd much rather have him in either a long man role or low leverage relief role than have him start every 5th game.

jasail · May 8, 2015

radsoxfan said:
Yeah, I'm not sure how control isn't a major issue as well. 5BB/9 innings this year, and coming off a game with 6 walks in 4 innings. It's all a problem…velocity, control, command. I suppose in comparison to the massive velocity drop, the control is a slightly less gigantic problem?

I'm not particularly bullish on Masterson's bullpen chances either to be honest, since all signs point to something being physically wrong with him. But I'd much rather have him in either a long man role or low leverage relief role than have him start every 5th game.

I 100% agree w/your comments. To expand, I don't view him going to the pen as an addition. Rather, I see it as addition by subtraction. Plus, it's a place the Sox can hide him and see : (1) if what remains of his stuff plays up in shorter stints; (2) if he can recoup some of what he had in 2013; or (3) if it's time to eat the money and move on.

Buckner's Boots · May 12, 2015

Re: the title of this thread

If by "pen" you mean "abattoir", then I'm on board. I think it's too late to stick a fork in him.

Doctor G · May 13, 2015

radsoxfan said:
Given the other options, I suppose another start or two is reasonable. Having said that, I'm not sure how we can expect much better. His velocity if down another 2 mph from last year (87 mph fastball avg this season), when it was supposedly down because of injury. Plus he has no clue where the ball is going.

He's getting by (sort of) on movement, deception, and a bunch of luck. But theres no way it is going to last. I'd rather make the move a start too early than a start too late.

I joked in the game thread that they should MRI his elbow, shoulder, knee, brain, and anything else they can think of. Even if he isn't complaining of any pain/weakness, hard to imagine something isn't wrong physically.

i would guess the right knee that started his slide last year is still the culprit.

HriniakPosterChild · May 13, 2015

A reliever who can't throw strikes or miss bats. I'm afraid this guy goes into the John Smoltz / Brad Penny / Matt Mantei bargain bin full of guys that are inexpensive for a reason.

It's been a long time since we came up with Brandon Arroyo. Is this really a great strategy?

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