So....who is the new GM/head of baseball ops?
- Thread starter moondog80
- Start date
- Status
Bradford pushing for Daniels and Ng. As previously mentioned, Daniels interviewed Cora years before the Sox hired him.
https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/two-names-red-sox-should-be-putting-at-the-top-of-their-list
https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/two-names-red-sox-should-be-putting-at-the-top-of-their-list
My main issue with Ng is there isn't really much of an indication that the Marlins are actually good. Yes, they finished 84-78 & made the playoffs, but they had a -57 run differential (10th in the NL, 20 in MLB, & significantly worse than the Red Sox -4).
They do have the #22 payroll, but if you want to grade on that curve, the Reds, Guardians, Orioles & Rays all had lower payrolls & better run differentials.
Fangraphs also currently has the Red Sox with the #2 farm system & the Marlins #26.
If we're doing to dip into another organization for front office talent & to try to learn how a really successful org does things, the Marlins are not particularly high on that list.
They do have the #22 payroll, but if you want to grade on that curve, the Reds, Guardians, Orioles & Rays all had lower payrolls & better run differentials.
Fangraphs also currently has the Red Sox with the #2 farm system & the Marlins #26.
If we're doing to dip into another organization for front office talent & to try to learn how a really successful org does things, the Marlins are not particularly high on that list.
Not sure if that looks quite as good now, a much worse (but still solid) 2023 and now TJS and he will miss all of 2024.
I mean, that's fine, but his '22 was only a little bit better than his '21 so it's not like she bought super low.
& as JA mentioned while I was typing this, not as great this season & TJ last week means no pitching next season.
Still looks like it won't be a bad deal, but even if it turned into the most amazing deal ever, I don't know that one particular instance of locking a player up early is enough to overcome all the other shortcomings in the org.
If we go by this valuation of ~$5.5m per fWAR, he's already been worth nearly $48m in the first two years. He can take 2024 off and the club can still come out way ahead.
That's not really how it works as they bought out 3 arb years & he wasn't about to be a free agent.
It's still almost certainly going to be a good deal, but it doesn't really move the needle for me in the larger scheme of things.
I'm not sure I understand the criticisms of Ng - she's been on the job less than three years, but by all accounts has begun building a strong culture within the Marlins organization. She's also been the anti-Bloom, willing to trade from an area of surplus (minor league pitching) to improve the ML roster, and she moved aggressively this past trade deadline when Miami found itself in the thick of the wild-card race and her moves helped capture a playoff spot. I honestly don't see her walking away from what she's building there to come to Boston, but I'd be excited if a candidate of her caliber was hired by the Red Sox.
As someone who has no interest in hiring an "Anti-Bloom", that doesn't hold a huge amount of appeal to me.
The year before she took over, the Marlins had a .517 winning % & beat the Cubs 2-0 in the Wild Card round.
Now, the Marlins have a .519 winning % & lost to the Phillies 2-0 in the Wild Card round.
Of course, she took over after the 60 game Covid season & the Marlins ran even better on Pythag than they did this year.
Pythag win % by year:
'20 - .434
'21 - .446
'22 - .435
'23 - .463
There's just nothing there that tells me she knows how to build a sustainable contender, & there are several franchises that I know for a fact know how to do that.
Maybe she can, but I'm not overly optimistic about the future of a franchise that doesn't spend & has a bottom 3rd farm system. I don't necessarily think MLB Pipeline's rankings are good, but this is somewhat illustrative:
24. Miami Marlins
2023 preseason rank: 18
2022 midseason rank: 16
2022 preseason rank: 6
2021 midseason rank: 3
I'm not even trying to say she's not a great GM, though. Maybe she is. I just don't think there's enough proof of concept that she'd be the person I would try to poach over someone from the Dodgers or Braves.
Are Pythagorean record and farm system rankings really how we should be assessing GM’s, though? Actual performance of the big league team is most important, isn’t it? Marlins were a .391 and .352 team the two full years before Ng took over.
The farm system may have been highly rated, but TNSTAAPP, right?
https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/marlins/
Contending in the NL East without a huge payroll is pretty impressive, at the very least.
The farm system may have been highly rated, but TNSTAAPP, right?
https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/marlins/
Contending in the NL East without a huge payroll is pretty impressive, at the very least.
Under this methodology, in 2018 Dave D was arguably the best GM in history
Well, pythag record tells you the team probably isn't that good & will need to become significantly better to compete again next year.
& yes, if you throw out 2020 it looks like a much bigger jump than if you count 2020.
There's a large difference between what DD did to assemble a juggernaut & what Ng has done to assemble a team that snuck into the Wild Card & got swept.
But again, I'm not saying she's not a great GM. Maybe she is. But there's no real evidence of that, yet.
Did they really contend in the division? 20 games out of first place. And yes, they made the WC, but with a run diff 53 runs worse than the Red Sox. If the Marlins’ actual record lined up with their pythag record, we’re not having this conversation. I’m not betting on the possibility that she has discovered the secret to building a team that outperforms their run diff.
Making the playoffs without a huge payroll at the very least speaks well for the organization. As for contending, I'm assuming you mean contending for a playoff spot and not the division as they finished 20 games behind Atlanta. While they were 26-26 in the division, they went 11-2 vs Washington and 15-24 vs the rest. (4-9 vs the Mets, 4-9 vs the Phillies and 7-6 vs the Braves)
Eh, I would say consistently making the playoffs without a huge payroll speaks well for an organization.
The Orioles & Rays both have lower payrolls & won significantly more games & are much better set up for the long term.
The Guardians & Reds had lower payrolls, better run differentials, & are also both better set up for the future.
But we did the Rays portion of a rebuild & now we need what the truly successful franchises do & maintain that level while keeping their systems strong, which is the Dodgers model & to a lesser extent the Braves & Astros models.
There are other organizations like the Twins, Brewers & Cards who also have had pretty consistent success without large payrolls.
Even the Yankees, Phillies, Blue Jays, Cubs & Rangers have had some success with higher payrolls.
In a vacuum, I would rather model around any of those other teams I just listed more so than the Marlins.
There's also positives to the approaches of teams like the Mariners, DBacks & Padres.
I still think that Bloom deserved one more season. To me, he was two starting pitchers away from consistent competition (88-92 wins) and another RH power threat from a top 95-99 win team for the next 4-6 seasons, and it really seemed like he was set up to do those two things. AND if he was able to do that AND Cora was able to manage that team(s) to those points then I would've extended both of them. But anyhow.....
Daniels still seems like an under-discussed candidate, maybe not super exciting, but I’d be ok with it if he were the hire. The current ALCS Rangers are largely his handiwork.
FWIW, I wasn't advocating for Ng or the Marlins model. I think she's done fine , but my point was that while Miami accounted well for itself the NL East didn't seem the beast that it was thought to be heading into the season and that the Marlins dominated the worst team within the division which pretty much accounted for their record being north of .500.
None of this is to say she's a bad GM. She does have experience in the Yankees & Dodgers orgs & she might have an amazing vision for the Red Sox she'd be able to implement better than anyone else in the world. There's just nothing in particular about her Marlins stint that moves the needle for me because getting outscored by 57 runs & making the playoffs is not sustainable.
Curious about the trades to try to get a better picture of what she's done.
Note: I thought this was going to be a pretty short post after doing a "find" on trades on the MLB transaction page...but it turns out that page sucks & this post became extremely, extremely long, so it's all in spoiler. Tons of moves, not a lot of steals & not a lot of getting stolen from.
I got bored before I got to the '21 stuff. Might do another post on only the interesting trades.
Curious about the trades to try to get a better picture of what she's done.
Note: I thought this was going to be a pretty short post after doing a "find" on trades on the MLB transaction page...but it turns out that page sucks & this post became extremely, extremely long, so it's all in spoiler. Tons of moves, not a lot of steals & not a lot of getting stolen from.
8/1/2023 - Trades LHP Jake Eder to the White Sox for 3B Jake Burger
Burger, 27, had a 131 wRC+ & 1.1 fWAR for the Marlins, in large part due to a .354 BABIP. He is not a free agent until '29.
Eder, 25, had a 3.94 ERA in 29.2 innings for the White Sox AA affiliate. MLB.com has him as the White Sox #5 prospect. He's currently pitching in the Arizona Fall League.
8/1/2023 - Trades 1B Garrett Cooper & Sean Reynolds to the Padres for LHP Ryan Weathers
Weathers, 23, pitched 13 innings for the Marlins with a 7.62 ERA, -0.2 fWAR.
Cooper, 32, had a 103 wRC+ in 133 PAs, 0.1 fWAR for the Padres. He is a free agent after the season.
Reynolds, 25, is a converted hitter who apparently started pitching in '21. The 6'8 righty had a 3.50 ERA in 18 innings for the Marlins AAA affiliate, but a 13.50 ERA in 16 innings for the Padres AAA team. Reynolds is the #24 prospect in the Padres org per MLB.com.
8/1/2023 - Trades 3B Jean Segura & SS Kahlil Watson to the Guardians for 1B Josh Bell
Bell, 31 had a 119 wRC+ in 224 PAs for the Marlins, 0.7 fWAR. He can opt out after this season.
Segura, 33, was immediately released by the Guardians.
Watson, 20, has been described as "One of the most electrifying middle infield athletes on the planet". He had a 103 wRC+ for the Marlins in A+, & a 107 wRC+ for the Guardians in A+. He is the Guardians 16th ranked prospect per MLB.com.
7/28/2023 - Trades 2B Marco Vargas & C Ronald Hernandez to the Mets for RHP David Robertson
Robertson, 38 & an impending free agent, pitched 21.1 innings for the Marlins with a 5.06 ERA.
Vargas, an 18 y/o middle infielder who had a 144 wRC+ for the Marlins FCL team, ended the season in A-Ball for the Mets where he had a 115 wRC+ in 31 PAs.
Hernandez, a 19 y/o catcher who had a 150 wRC+ for the Marlins FCL team, ended the season in A-Ball for the Mets where he had a 73 wRC+ in 39 PAs.
According to MLB.com, Vargas is the Mets 8th best prospect & Hernandez is their 20th best prospect.
7/26/2023 - Trades RHP Dylan Floro to the Twins for RHP Jorge Lopez
Lopez, 30, had a 9.26 ERA in 11.2 innings (-0.1 fWAR) before the Marlins cut bait & he went on to the Orioles, who DFA'd him & he has since elected free agency.
Floro, 32, had a 5.29 ERA in 17 innings for the Twins (0.2 fWAR) before being released by the Twins on 9/29.
7/25/2023 - Trades cash to the Padres for LHP Jose Castillo
Castillo pitched exclusively with the Marlins AAA affiliate, 19.1 innings, 5.59 ERA.
6/8/2023 - Trades 3B Joe Rizzo to the Tigers for cash
Rizzo, 25, who had a -15 wrC+ in 40 PAs for the Marlins AAA team when traded, played the rest of the year for the Tigers AAA affiliate putting up a 116 wRC+.
5/22/2023 - Trades OF Brady Allen to the Tigers for OF Jonathan Davis
Davis, 31, put up an 85 wRC+ and 0.1 fWAR in 104 PAs for the Marlins.
Allen, 23, put up a 141 wRC+ in A+ for the Tigers before being promoted to AA where he put up a 43 wRC+ in 35 PAs.
4/22/2023 - Trades cash to Twins for LHP Sean Nolin
Nolin, 33, pitched 3 innings for the Marlins with an 18 ERA, -0.1 fWAR. He spent the remainder of the season in AAA (4.37 ERA in 22.2 IP).
4/14/2023 - Trades SS Alex De Goti to Twins for cash
De Goti, 29, had a 67 wRC+ in 175 PAs for the Twins AAA affiliate before being released in August.
2/11/2023 - Trades OF J.J. Bleday to the A's for LHP A.J. Puk
Puk, 28, had a 3.97 ERA in 56.2 IP out of the bullpen for the Marlins this season, 0.9 fWAR. He is not a free agent until '27.
Bleday, 25, had a 92 wRC+ & 0.1 fWAR for the A's this season. He will not be a free agent for a long time (
1/30/2023 - Trades LHP Richard Bleier to the Red Sox for RHP Matt Barnes and cash
Barnes, 33, had a 5.48 ERA in 21.1 innings, 0.1 fWAR, before suffering a hip injury & missing the rest of the season.
Bleier, 36, had a 5.28 ERA in 30.2 innings, -0.1 fWAR, before realizing he was not good at pitching anymore. He ended the season with the Cubs AAA affiliate.
1/20/2023 - Trades LHP Pablo Lopez, OF Byson Chourio & IF Jose Salas to the Twins for INF Luis Arraez
Arraez, 26, had a very good year for the Marlins, putting up a 132 wRC+ & 3.4 fWAR season. He is under control for 2 more years.
Lopez, 27, also had a very good year for the Twins, putting up a 3.66 ERA & 4.5 fWAR season. He is under control for 1 more year.
Chourio, 18, is a switch hitting outfielder who had a 108 wRC+ in the Complex League.
Salas, 20, is a switch hitting middle infielder who had a 55 wRC+ in A+ this season.
Salas is the Twins #17 prospect & Chourio is their #26 prospect per MLB.com.
1/11/2023 - Trades SS Miguel Rojas to the Dodgers for SS Jacob Amaya
Amaya, 24, made his MLB debut this year (16 wRC+ in 9 PAs). He primarily played in AAA, putting up an 87 wRC+. He is the Marlins #5 prospect per MLB.com.
Rojas, 34, had a 69 wRC+ & 0.6 fWAR this season & is signed for 1 more year at $5.5m with a team option for '25.
11/18/2022 - Trades RHPs Elieser Hernandez & Jeff Brigham to the Mets for RHP Franklin Sanchez & cash
Sanchez, 23, had a 6.90 ERA & 11.7 bb/9 for the Marlins A+ affiliate this season.
Hernandez, 28, only pitched 9.1 Minor League innings across 3 levels this season due to a pectoral injury. In '22 he was a bad relief pitcher for the Marlins with a 6.35 ERA & -0.9 fWAR.
Brigham, 31, was a competent pitcher for the Marlins last year with a 3.38 ERA in 24 Major League innings, 0.2 fWAR, but was awful this season - 5.26 ERA in 37.2 IP, -0.6 fWAR.
11/15/2022 - Trades RHP Marcus Johnson & RHP Santiago Suarez to the Rays for RHP J.T. Chargois & 2B Xavier Edwards
Chargois, 32, had a 3.61 ERA in 42.1 IP, 0.4 fWAR. he is under team control for 2 more seasons.
Edwards, 24, made his MLB debut this season, putting up an 82 wRC+ in 84 PAs with a 0.3 fWAR. He spent most of the year in AAA where he had a 130 wRC+.
Johnson, 22, had a 3.74 ERA in 130 IP in A-Ball this season. He is the Rays #16 prospect per MLB.com.
Suarez, 18, had a 1.13 ERA in 39.2 IP in the Complex League & a 2.29 ERA in 19.2 IP in A-Ball. He is the Rays #14 prospect per MLB.com.
11/10/2022 - Trades C Payton Henry to the Brewers for OF Reminton Batista
Batista, 18, was very bad in 23 PAs for DSL Miami & very good in 99 PAs for DSL Marlins.
Henry, 26, spent the entire season in AAA where he had a 98 wRC+ in 255 PAs.
8/2/2022 - Trades RHP Anthony Bass and RHP Zach Pop to the Blue Jays for SS Jordan Groshans
Groshans, 22, had 65 PAs for the Marlins in '22 with a 77 wRC+, -0.1 fWAR. In '23, he played the entire season in AAA where he put up 74 wRC+ in 528 PAs.
Bass, 35, had a 1.75 ERA in 25.2 IP for the Blue Jays in '22 (but with a -0.1 fWAR...), & pitched 20 innings in '23 with a 4.95 ERA (0.0 fWAR), before being released in June.
Pop, 27, had a 1.89 ERA in 19 IP for the Blue Jays in '22 (0.2 fWAR), & pitched 13.2 MLB innings in '23 with a 6.59 ERA (-0.3 fWAR). Pop is not a free agent until '28.
6/21/2022 - Trades cash to the Tigers for C Ryan Lavarnway
Lavarnway, 36, had an 85 wRC+ in 153 PAs in AAA for the Marlins, & then retired after the season.
5/26/2022 - Trades SS Hayden Cantrelle to the Giants for 3B Luke Williams
Williams, now 27, put up a 69 wRC+ & 0.2 fWAR in 124 PAs. He left after the season & has 19 total MLB PAs this year between the Dodgers & Braves.
Cantrelle, now 24, is a switch hitting 2B who had a 109 wRC+ for the Giants AA affiliate this season.
4/30/22 - Trades IF Isan Diaz to the Giants for cash
Diaz, 27, had a 131 wRC+ in 331 PAs for the Giants AAA affiliate in '22. In '23, however, he struggled in AAA (85 wrC+) & in his 21 PAs with the Giants (-39 wRC+, -0.3 fWAR), & was let go and went to the Tigers, who I believe also let him go.
4/6/22 - Trades C Alex Jackson for SS Hayden Cantrelle & RHP Alexis Ramirez
Cantrelle was traded to the Giants less than a month later.
Ramirez, 24, does not seem to have pitched since 2019.
Jackson had 12 PAs with the Brewers in '22 with a 38 wRC+ & 0.0 fWAR. In '23, he had a 123 wRC+ for the Brewers AAA team before being traded to the Rays.
4/3/22 - Trades LHP Antonio Velez, OF Kevin Guerrero, RHP Yaqui Rivera, & a '22 2nd round comp pick to the Orioles for LHP Tanner Scott and RHP Cole Sulser
Scott, 29, pitched 62.2 innings with a 4.31 ERA (0.4 fWAR) in '22, before pitching even better in '23 with a 2.31 ERA in 78 relief innings (2.8 fWAR).
Sulser, 33, pitched 34 innings with a 5.29 ERA, -0.1 fWAR in '22 before moving on to the DBacks for '23, & then was released & picked up by the Rays. He only pitched 5.1 MLB innings this year.
Velez, 26, has not been very good. He has advanced as far as AA where he pitched 7.2 innings with a 7.71 ERA this season.
Guerrero, 19, had a 91 wRC+ in 130 Complex League PAs & a 68 wRC+ in 17 A+ PAs.
Rivera, 20, had a 3.16 ERA in 31.1 IP in A-Ball & a 1.45 ERA in 18.2 IP in A+.
The draft pick was the 67th overall pick & the Orioles used it to draft OF Jud Fabian. Fabian, 23, had a 139 wRC+ in 237 PAs in A+ & a 98 wRC+ in 288 PAs in AA this season. Fabian is the #13 Orioles prospect per MLB.com.
Eder, 25, had a 3.94 ERA in 29.2 innings for the White Sox AA affiliate. MLB.com has him as the White Sox #5 prospect. He's currently pitching in the Arizona Fall League.
8/1/2023 - Trades 1B Garrett Cooper & Sean Reynolds to the Padres for LHP Ryan Weathers
Weathers, 23, pitched 13 innings for the Marlins with a 7.62 ERA, -0.2 fWAR.
Cooper, 32, had a 103 wRC+ in 133 PAs, 0.1 fWAR for the Padres. He is a free agent after the season.
Reynolds, 25, is a converted hitter who apparently started pitching in '21. The 6'8 righty had a 3.50 ERA in 18 innings for the Marlins AAA affiliate, but a 13.50 ERA in 16 innings for the Padres AAA team. Reynolds is the #24 prospect in the Padres org per MLB.com.
8/1/2023 - Trades 3B Jean Segura & SS Kahlil Watson to the Guardians for 1B Josh Bell
Bell, 31 had a 119 wRC+ in 224 PAs for the Marlins, 0.7 fWAR. He can opt out after this season.
Segura, 33, was immediately released by the Guardians.
Watson, 20, has been described as "One of the most electrifying middle infield athletes on the planet". He had a 103 wRC+ for the Marlins in A+, & a 107 wRC+ for the Guardians in A+. He is the Guardians 16th ranked prospect per MLB.com.
7/28/2023 - Trades 2B Marco Vargas & C Ronald Hernandez to the Mets for RHP David Robertson
Robertson, 38 & an impending free agent, pitched 21.1 innings for the Marlins with a 5.06 ERA.
Vargas, an 18 y/o middle infielder who had a 144 wRC+ for the Marlins FCL team, ended the season in A-Ball for the Mets where he had a 115 wRC+ in 31 PAs.
Hernandez, a 19 y/o catcher who had a 150 wRC+ for the Marlins FCL team, ended the season in A-Ball for the Mets where he had a 73 wRC+ in 39 PAs.
According to MLB.com, Vargas is the Mets 8th best prospect & Hernandez is their 20th best prospect.
7/26/2023 - Trades RHP Dylan Floro to the Twins for RHP Jorge Lopez
Lopez, 30, had a 9.26 ERA in 11.2 innings (-0.1 fWAR) before the Marlins cut bait & he went on to the Orioles, who DFA'd him & he has since elected free agency.
Floro, 32, had a 5.29 ERA in 17 innings for the Twins (0.2 fWAR) before being released by the Twins on 9/29.
7/25/2023 - Trades cash to the Padres for LHP Jose Castillo
Castillo pitched exclusively with the Marlins AAA affiliate, 19.1 innings, 5.59 ERA.
6/8/2023 - Trades 3B Joe Rizzo to the Tigers for cash
Rizzo, 25, who had a -15 wrC+ in 40 PAs for the Marlins AAA team when traded, played the rest of the year for the Tigers AAA affiliate putting up a 116 wRC+.
5/22/2023 - Trades OF Brady Allen to the Tigers for OF Jonathan Davis
Davis, 31, put up an 85 wRC+ and 0.1 fWAR in 104 PAs for the Marlins.
Allen, 23, put up a 141 wRC+ in A+ for the Tigers before being promoted to AA where he put up a 43 wRC+ in 35 PAs.
4/22/2023 - Trades cash to Twins for LHP Sean Nolin
Nolin, 33, pitched 3 innings for the Marlins with an 18 ERA, -0.1 fWAR. He spent the remainder of the season in AAA (4.37 ERA in 22.2 IP).
4/14/2023 - Trades SS Alex De Goti to Twins for cash
De Goti, 29, had a 67 wRC+ in 175 PAs for the Twins AAA affiliate before being released in August.
2/11/2023 - Trades OF J.J. Bleday to the A's for LHP A.J. Puk
Puk, 28, had a 3.97 ERA in 56.2 IP out of the bullpen for the Marlins this season, 0.9 fWAR. He is not a free agent until '27.
Bleday, 25, had a 92 wRC+ & 0.1 fWAR for the A's this season. He will not be a free agent for a long time (
1/30/2023 - Trades LHP Richard Bleier to the Red Sox for RHP Matt Barnes and cash
Barnes, 33, had a 5.48 ERA in 21.1 innings, 0.1 fWAR, before suffering a hip injury & missing the rest of the season.
Bleier, 36, had a 5.28 ERA in 30.2 innings, -0.1 fWAR, before realizing he was not good at pitching anymore. He ended the season with the Cubs AAA affiliate.
1/20/2023 - Trades LHP Pablo Lopez, OF Byson Chourio & IF Jose Salas to the Twins for INF Luis Arraez
Arraez, 26, had a very good year for the Marlins, putting up a 132 wRC+ & 3.4 fWAR season. He is under control for 2 more years.
Lopez, 27, also had a very good year for the Twins, putting up a 3.66 ERA & 4.5 fWAR season. He is under control for 1 more year.
Chourio, 18, is a switch hitting outfielder who had a 108 wRC+ in the Complex League.
Salas, 20, is a switch hitting middle infielder who had a 55 wRC+ in A+ this season.
Salas is the Twins #17 prospect & Chourio is their #26 prospect per MLB.com.
1/11/2023 - Trades SS Miguel Rojas to the Dodgers for SS Jacob Amaya
Amaya, 24, made his MLB debut this year (16 wRC+ in 9 PAs). He primarily played in AAA, putting up an 87 wRC+. He is the Marlins #5 prospect per MLB.com.
Rojas, 34, had a 69 wRC+ & 0.6 fWAR this season & is signed for 1 more year at $5.5m with a team option for '25.
11/18/2022 - Trades RHPs Elieser Hernandez & Jeff Brigham to the Mets for RHP Franklin Sanchez & cash
Sanchez, 23, had a 6.90 ERA & 11.7 bb/9 for the Marlins A+ affiliate this season.
Hernandez, 28, only pitched 9.1 Minor League innings across 3 levels this season due to a pectoral injury. In '22 he was a bad relief pitcher for the Marlins with a 6.35 ERA & -0.9 fWAR.
Brigham, 31, was a competent pitcher for the Marlins last year with a 3.38 ERA in 24 Major League innings, 0.2 fWAR, but was awful this season - 5.26 ERA in 37.2 IP, -0.6 fWAR.
11/15/2022 - Trades RHP Marcus Johnson & RHP Santiago Suarez to the Rays for RHP J.T. Chargois & 2B Xavier Edwards
Chargois, 32, had a 3.61 ERA in 42.1 IP, 0.4 fWAR. he is under team control for 2 more seasons.
Edwards, 24, made his MLB debut this season, putting up an 82 wRC+ in 84 PAs with a 0.3 fWAR. He spent most of the year in AAA where he had a 130 wRC+.
Johnson, 22, had a 3.74 ERA in 130 IP in A-Ball this season. He is the Rays #16 prospect per MLB.com.
Suarez, 18, had a 1.13 ERA in 39.2 IP in the Complex League & a 2.29 ERA in 19.2 IP in A-Ball. He is the Rays #14 prospect per MLB.com.
11/10/2022 - Trades C Payton Henry to the Brewers for OF Reminton Batista
Batista, 18, was very bad in 23 PAs for DSL Miami & very good in 99 PAs for DSL Marlins.
Henry, 26, spent the entire season in AAA where he had a 98 wRC+ in 255 PAs.
8/2/2022 - Trades RHP Anthony Bass and RHP Zach Pop to the Blue Jays for SS Jordan Groshans
Groshans, 22, had 65 PAs for the Marlins in '22 with a 77 wRC+, -0.1 fWAR. In '23, he played the entire season in AAA where he put up 74 wRC+ in 528 PAs.
Bass, 35, had a 1.75 ERA in 25.2 IP for the Blue Jays in '22 (but with a -0.1 fWAR...), & pitched 20 innings in '23 with a 4.95 ERA (0.0 fWAR), before being released in June.
Pop, 27, had a 1.89 ERA in 19 IP for the Blue Jays in '22 (0.2 fWAR), & pitched 13.2 MLB innings in '23 with a 6.59 ERA (-0.3 fWAR). Pop is not a free agent until '28.
6/21/2022 - Trades cash to the Tigers for C Ryan Lavarnway
Lavarnway, 36, had an 85 wRC+ in 153 PAs in AAA for the Marlins, & then retired after the season.
5/26/2022 - Trades SS Hayden Cantrelle to the Giants for 3B Luke Williams
Williams, now 27, put up a 69 wRC+ & 0.2 fWAR in 124 PAs. He left after the season & has 19 total MLB PAs this year between the Dodgers & Braves.
Cantrelle, now 24, is a switch hitting 2B who had a 109 wRC+ for the Giants AA affiliate this season.
4/30/22 - Trades IF Isan Diaz to the Giants for cash
Diaz, 27, had a 131 wRC+ in 331 PAs for the Giants AAA affiliate in '22. In '23, however, he struggled in AAA (85 wrC+) & in his 21 PAs with the Giants (-39 wRC+, -0.3 fWAR), & was let go and went to the Tigers, who I believe also let him go.
4/6/22 - Trades C Alex Jackson for SS Hayden Cantrelle & RHP Alexis Ramirez
Cantrelle was traded to the Giants less than a month later.
Ramirez, 24, does not seem to have pitched since 2019.
Jackson had 12 PAs with the Brewers in '22 with a 38 wRC+ & 0.0 fWAR. In '23, he had a 123 wRC+ for the Brewers AAA team before being traded to the Rays.
4/3/22 - Trades LHP Antonio Velez, OF Kevin Guerrero, RHP Yaqui Rivera, & a '22 2nd round comp pick to the Orioles for LHP Tanner Scott and RHP Cole Sulser
Scott, 29, pitched 62.2 innings with a 4.31 ERA (0.4 fWAR) in '22, before pitching even better in '23 with a 2.31 ERA in 78 relief innings (2.8 fWAR).
Sulser, 33, pitched 34 innings with a 5.29 ERA, -0.1 fWAR in '22 before moving on to the DBacks for '23, & then was released & picked up by the Rays. He only pitched 5.1 MLB innings this year.
Velez, 26, has not been very good. He has advanced as far as AA where he pitched 7.2 innings with a 7.71 ERA this season.
Guerrero, 19, had a 91 wRC+ in 130 Complex League PAs & a 68 wRC+ in 17 A+ PAs.
Rivera, 20, had a 3.16 ERA in 31.1 IP in A-Ball & a 1.45 ERA in 18.2 IP in A+.
The draft pick was the 67th overall pick & the Orioles used it to draft OF Jud Fabian. Fabian, 23, had a 139 wRC+ in 237 PAs in A+ & a 98 wRC+ in 288 PAs in AA this season. Fabian is the #13 Orioles prospect per MLB.com.
I got bored before I got to the '21 stuff. Might do another post on only the interesting trades.
I tend to agree with you, but that ship has sailed. Just got to trust the process or something.
Is the post-season really a reason for this to be delayed? Does Sam Fuld really have so many day-to-day responsibilities with the Phillies that he can't take a meeting, or even a phone call? It's been nearly a month since Bloom was canned.
I'm not nervous...yet. But I'll be annoyed if this isn't settled by the end of the WS.
Permission is needed to talk. If the Phillies (or whomever) don't want their people interviewing during the playoffs, what can be done?
Worth noting that Dombrowski was fired before the end of the season also, and Bloom wasn't officially hired until October 29. There's no reason for concern at this point.
I thought permission was only needed if it wasn’t a promotion? Or does that not apply during the season?
My understanding is permission is always needed to interview someone under contract with another team, but there is a cultural expectation that permission will not be denied when it's a promotion.
The Sox had to ask the Rays for permission to interview Chaim, and that was a promotion.
The Marlins certainly had a weird season, just by skimming their results. They seemed to have a lot of very lopsided wins and losses, and I’d be curious to tally up those games and see how they balance out. They also lost eight straight games right out of the ASB.
I looked at their pitching stats quickly, to see if they had a trash number five starter, but there was no obvious guy they had that pitched a ton of horrible innings. It does look like they had a lot of random trash bullpen/spot starters over the course of the season.
And in an extreme hypothetical, you could have a trash offense that scores one run per game, every game, four pitches that come out and throw shutouts every time, and then a fifth guy who gives up 15 runs every time.
And that team would go 130-32 with a -318 run differential.
That could be an inherent flaw with run differential. A team that wins 55% of the time is still winning 55% of the time. If their run differential says they’re a .450 team - is it because they’re lucky, inconsistent, or maybe because they’re a good team with some pitchers that really, really, really suck?
I keep coming back to the fact that there is no way for a new GM to come on board at this point and get up to speed on the minor league system (or even who needs to be on the 40 man roster) sufficient to make independent decisions about who to protect/who to trade. Which is a key factor in deciding whether/how to overpay in the free agent market in conjunction with pursuing trades to fill gaps in the lineup. Because, in reality, if the new GM is an external hire, they are going to be relying on the same folks already in the building who assembled the team that finished in last place last year and this year, some of whom were hired/promoted by Bloom.
It is like trying to steer an oil tanker. At best, the ownership is strongly signalling that they want a change in approach with the hope that the infrastructure already in place can adjust and support a new GM in an incredibly short period of time.
It is like trying to steer an oil tanker. At best, the ownership is strongly signalling that they want a change in approach with the hope that the infrastructure already in place can adjust and support a new GM in an incredibly short period of time.
Outperforming your Pythagorean just means that your average margin of victory is smaller RSN your average margin of defeat (and if you undeperform, the opposite is true). Why that is can be attributed to a variety of reasons- not sure there’s ever been an exhaustive analysis demonstrating any kind of pattern in teams that over or under achieve vs. expected.
This year, the O’s were +7, Twins -7, Royals -6, Rangers -8, Astros -5, Mariners -4, Marlins +10, Cubs -8, Pirates +6, Diamondbacks +5, Padres -11. Lots of swings one way or the other. Some of this could be driven by how teams use pitchers now, I’m guessing…in that maybe you punt on likely losses earlier which drives greater run differential in losses?
This year, the O’s were +7, Twins -7, Royals -6, Rangers -8, Astros -5, Mariners -4, Marlins +10, Cubs -8, Pirates +6, Diamondbacks +5, Padres -11. Lots of swings one way or the other. Some of this could be driven by how teams use pitchers now, I’m guessing…in that maybe you punt on likely losses earlier which drives greater run differential in losses?
Just looking at the list of current MLB GMs and the dates on which they were officially hired, and it seems to contradict the idea that it's getting to be too late to get up to speed for the off-season ahead. I count 14 that were hired between October 15 and December 31 and a handful more that got the job between January 1 and Opening Day.
No matter when the hiring happens, I think the new person is going to have to rely on incumbent staff or leftover scouting reports to begin their tenure. We know that O'Halloran and Romero and Ferriera aren't going anywhere. They'll provide plenty of input to aid the new hire.
No doubt there will be lots of action, but I think it will be driven largely by folks already in the organization. Any trends on number of wins added in the season following the hiring of a new GM?
Most top management jobs at big companies are "like trying to steer an oil tanker". Although this one happens to have a whole press crew ready to pounce on every mistake, large or small.
Isn’t it likely that any candidate already has been doing his or her homework and would have a ton of info / thoughts / scouting reports / etc on the organization? It’s a pretty small industry, it’s not like anyone would be coming in completely cold.
No, I said it in other forums the day Bloom was fired. But knowing the facts behind Hazen, it was a non-starter.
McAdam: multiple people have turned down the job, the leading candidate is a guy who the Marlins fired in 2020 after 1 playoff appearance in 11 years and his since been working for MLB, in charge of umpires and on-field discipline.
Fingers really, really crossed that they are looking at guys from the Braves/Phillies/Dodgers/Astros that they've not yet been in contact with.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/10/mlb-notebook-red-sox-encounter-resistance-in-front-office-search-but-one-target-surfaces.html
Fingers really, really crossed that they are looking at guys from the Braves/Phillies/Dodgers/Astros that they've not yet been in contact with.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/10/mlb-notebook-red-sox-encounter-resistance-in-front-office-search-but-one-target-surfaces.html
This is an interesting nugget that highlights my prior comment about the challenge of inheriting the infrastructure of a front office during an offseason that will (hopefully) include franchise-altering decisions made through trades and/or free agency:
According to multiple sources, the Red Sox have been been met with a number of rejections by some targeted candidates as they seek to find a replacement . . .
. . .
And increasingly, sources add, there’s concern about the surrounding infrastructure. The new hire will not only be inheriting manager Alex Cora, whose job has been guaranteed by ownership for at least 2024, but also, a front office that includes several executives who’ve been part of the organization for more than two decades, along with various other department heads who come with the job.
OTOH, Michael Hill acquired Zac Gallen and Sandy Alcantara for two years Marcell Ozuna and Pablo López for two months of David Phelps.
Regardless, I kind of don't buy this report from McAdam. Or don't really buy that it's a big deal. He's careful not to make a causal link between the "number of rejections by some targeted candidates" to the group of "some...prospective hires (who have been) put off by the level of turnover."
IDK, it's not clear to me why it'd be preferable for a candidate to come in and get full autonomy with their handpicked team of personnel, at least right away. Seems like an enormous amount of work to step into a FO leadership role with a ton of vacancies to fill, conduct interviews and hire the right candidates, learn the players and the clubhouse vibe, find a manager who complements them, and still orchestrate the kind of pivotal offseason the franchise and fan base expects this winter. I would much rather step into a role with institutional knowledge in place!
You can have the latter. There doesn't have to be a "ton of vacancies". Any candidate worth his or her salt will take advantage of what is in place, learn and make personel decisions based on what they have learn. Wanting autonomy doesn't mean the need for wholesale changes on day one.
To add to what YTF said, there's a huge difference between A) walking into a role with staff in place that you have the chance to assess and determine fit and B) walking into a role where the de facto head of everything publicly announced that "these are our guys you're inheriting".
It is entirely unsurprising that we might be seeing folks lose interest in an org that seems to be hiring a CBOINO. What we'll end up getting is someone that wants the title so much that they're willing to do the job with handcuffs and a staff with batphones to Kennedy and Henry.
Last edited:
Is this an actual quote? Where’s it from?
I think there’s a lot of inference based on a few answers from reporters’ questions. It seems natural that the ownership wants to project confidence, stand behind organizational personnel, etc. I don’t think it means what you appear to have taken it to mean above.
There’s also a lot of available reporting (from Speier, mostly) about the JWH group giving front office heads autonomy to make their own decisions, and standing by the FO’s decisions. (There was an in-depth story about this last winter, IIRC.) They obviously hold front office heads accountable for those decisions if they don’t work, too. But there’s nothing I’ve read that suggests that the new hire would be some kind of puppet or figurehead, if that’s the implication.
Personalities and preferences differ of course, but I think having personnel in place (for a year, let’s say) is generally to the new GM’s favor, not detriment.
And your last sentence is what concerns me the most about this. Maybe they get lucky and the limited pool that they've created contains the very best candidate, but on the other hand they may have put themselves in a position to have to settle for choosing from a lesser pool of applicants.
Honestly.... the Red Sox Front Office has been pretty damned dysfunctional since mid-Theo-era. Despite winning 3 World Series since the gorilla suit incident, they've hired some terrible head coaches, had GM's come in and then they've undermined them and changed directions.
I'm not sure how well Bloom was looked at by other GM's but it was clear that he had a direction and was following through with it (perhaps to a fault), and they once again pulled the rug out from underneath him just as it appeared they were on the precipice of having his plan come to fruition. It just appears to me to be a chaotic and dysfunctional group with a disinterested owner currently. I would personally take the job as it'd be a 5000% raise over my current occupation, but if you're in that league, there's a good chance that stepping into that role could hurt your long-term plans.
I'm not sure how well Bloom was looked at by other GM's but it was clear that he had a direction and was following through with it (perhaps to a fault), and they once again pulled the rug out from underneath him just as it appeared they were on the precipice of having his plan come to fruition. It just appears to me to be a chaotic and dysfunctional group with a disinterested owner currently. I would personally take the job as it'd be a 5000% raise over my current occupation, but if you're in that league, there's a good chance that stepping into that role could hurt your long-term plans.
Is going to be Romero and a de facto Cora. It’s seemed like that as soon as Cora said “I’m not ready to be a GM yet”
How the sausage gets made is a pretty messy affair in every company. The Red Sox are just exceptionally good at blasting their internal shit all over the media sphere.
The results have been good so either they're very lucky or the crazy management strategy works, but it is frustrating to watch it play out in real time every 3-5 years like clockwork.
Nothing really new to add to this, but I agree with YTF & Jimbo.
Having smart people around is great. But not having the autonomy to evaluate the people in house & replace them with your own people if you think they would be a better fit, on your timeline, is something 99.9% of external candidates would be less happy about. It might not be a deal-breaker for all, but it makes it a less appealing position.
Having smart people around is great. But not having the autonomy to evaluate the people in house & replace them with your own people if you think they would be a better fit, on your timeline, is something 99.9% of external candidates would be less happy about. It might not be a deal-breaker for all, but it makes it a less appealing position.
I just don't understand deciding Cora was so valuable that the new front office has to roll with him. It's not like he's some Johnny Pesky/Red Auerbach figure that's been with the organization for 50 years or whatever. Who do we thing the chief meddler is? Kennedy? Romero? Ferreira? Henry?
I know I mentioned this earlier in the thread (or one of the Bloom threads) but all things considered, I don't really hate this set up should it come to pass.
Not that we'd ever know, but if there were things within the front office the past 4 years that maybe Romero was really pushing for and Bloom was against, it could be a pretty good set up - and again, we'd obviously have no way of knowing this.
Byrnes is / was my top choice, and I'd have liked that better. I'd personally have put Crick and Sestanovich ahead of this set up too. But I really see a Romero / Cora "tandem" for lack of any better term as roughly comparable when looked at alongside Hazen, Ng, Gomes, Fuld and the like.
I also would like this a lot more than some of the re-tread names like Moore or some names that just seemed to be out there because of some New England connection (Forst).
- Status