That's not what he said. He said they're competing in an extremely difficult division AND have to find a way to improve despite significant problems on and off the field
So....who is the new GM/head of baseball ops?
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Do you think a good GM who walked into this situation - given their current roster, financial commitments, farm system, and (presumably) willingness by ownership to spend $$ - would be able to put together a team very capable of winning a WS (no guarantee to win it but capable of it) in pretty short order?
Not with an ownership that is bipolar they wouldn't.
Maybe. But what happened to the last two guys who won a World Series? One was shown the door two seasons later, the other didn't last 12 more months.
Fair, but he did talk about the difficult division. That shouldn't frighten away ANY candidate who is actually worth their salt as a GM. They should WANT this kind of competition and challenge.
Besides it's not like getting fired from the Red Sox's GM position is a death sentence for your career. Cherington and Dombrowski are both in good spots, and I expect Bloom will be too.
I honestly don't believe that to be the case, and truth be told the local media is soft on the team overall given the Globe is owned by JWH. The Patriots are currently receiving 3 billion times more grief for 1 bad season than the Sox have gotten for 3 bad seasons out of the last four.
No, I think it's all about the ownership, which is dysfunctional at the best of times and absent most of the time, only showing up to fire a GM or trade a beloved superstar for a bag of magic beans because they didn't want to spend the money.
It must be a grossly unappealing situation when viewed from the outside.
Exactly. I mean, if it's SO WELL KNOWN all throughout MLB that Sox ownership is totally dysfunctional and any GM going there is going to have a very difficult time of it, any candidate that they hire that does even modestly well, once Sox ownership fires them, will probably be looked on favorably by the rest of MLB. In other words, they would get it, ya know?
No I do not. I think a good GM executes both a short- and long-term vision for the team and undertakes a plan with that in mind.
But the up for a challenge, worth their salt type of GM is also one who would want autonomy & the ability to structure things the way they want to, and not just walk in as a cog in the system where they are the only one without job security.
You can't cherry pick the points he made. They're all of a whole. And he didn't add in, as SJH did, the notion that the head of baseball operations would essentially be reporting to the manager -- which since they are a highly competitive person, would not be a positive
This is interesting, Speier says they are already close to a second round of interviews:
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1715424372544966763?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1715424372544966763?s=20
If there’s one thing Giants & Phillies fans can agree upon is that Gabe Kepler is a HORRIBLE manager. Most of my close friends are SF fans and every last one of them was ecstatic when he was fired. I constantly had to hear about his terrible decision-making.
The multiple Phillies fans warned them when he was hired that he was awful. It turns out he was even worse.
The multiple Phillies fans warned them when he was hired that he was awful. It turns out he was even worse.
Sure I can. I can say that while I agree that ownership dysfunction could be a legit reason, I don't find "oh boo hoo the division is too tough for me...I don't want to have to compete with the Orioles, Blue Jays, Rays, and Yankees" to be a legit reason for any GM candidate. They should relish this kind of challenge.
But the dysfunction...yeah I can see why that would be highly unappealing. But none of these people even want to TALK to Sox' ownership? That's weird. I'd at least talk with them and ask a bunch of questions.
Leaving aside that I don't think GMs necessarily have this kind of mindset, the toughness of the division is merely an underpinning. The immediate situation is that BOS needs to add a bunch of top level pitching to compete in that division and IMO it's going to be close to impossible for whoever takes the job to do so. That is the main thing that would bother me as a potential candidate, well that and the confusing power structure in which the manager seems to have more job certainty than the new hire/s.
Two names on that list aren't quite fair.
One of them is Mike Hill. I don't buy the notion that the Red Sox were dying to interview him at all. It seems like he floated his name out there and then floated he declined it as well.
The other is Jon Daniels. He also turned down the chance to interview because of family. He still lives in the Dallas area and the Rays allow him to work remotely.
Regardless, this doesn't look good for the Sox. Specifically, Sawdaye and Ng.
If Sox ownership is willing to open up the pocketbooks, how "impossible" would that really be?
Take as much $$ as it takes to sign Yamamoto, and also sign Montgomery. Yes that's a ton of money overall, but they have it to spend (and again, my premise is that Werner/Henry are willing to open up the pocketbooks). They could also unload prospects (they now have quite a few of them that are expendable) for another good SP.
I mean, maybe Sox ownership isn't willing to do this. But I'd at least go in to talk with them and ask them instead of just saying no without even a conversation.
Some of the issues that may be going on here. One, I think there might be a sense among candidates that they're holding the seat warm for Cora to eventually take over.
If that's the case...my God, I think we are all in a lot of trouble as Red Sox fans.
Two, it seems like some of the Sox preferred candidates are also close to Chaim Bloom, who obviously didn't give a glowing recommendation of the job.
Three, it's possible that this job is perceived as not having the autonomy that it should.
If that's the case...my God, I think we are all in a lot of trouble as Red Sox fans.
Two, it seems like some of the Sox preferred candidates are also close to Chaim Bloom, who obviously didn't give a glowing recommendation of the job.
Three, it's possible that this job is perceived as not having the autonomy that it should.
I agree with what you're saying about disarray, underperformance, and ownership weirdness. But the "not willing to spend" stuff has no basis in fact.
I mean, that's why it's so concerning that so many people are refusing to, right? Personally I would take the interview.
Allow me to modify my statement: they are unwilling to spend on big top of the market contracts. Thus the report that Henry is "philosophically opposed" to the type of contract Ohtani will receive. And obviously trading Mookie. I very very highly doubt they will sign Yamamoto.
That in itself as a big-market team is a significant handicap.
This all seems like it's bound to end with Eddie Romero taking the GM job and Cora taking the POBO job in 2-3 years. IMO, this is about the worst possible outcome.
@John Marzano Olympic Hero was on this the day that Bloom was fired.
@John Marzano Olympic Hero was on this the day that Bloom was fired.
So we're still blaming the media on this?
The Sox have sunk so low in this town, 90% of the media does not give a shit about the team any more. It's not the media.
I know. But I'd at least ask ownership if they're willing to spend what it takes to get them. I get that by definition it would mean the Sox would be the highest bidders.
So what's bothering me about all this is not that people are saying no to the job. It's that they're not even sitting down and discussing it with Sox ownership. Like, I might very well say no, I do not want this job. But to do it without even interviewing and being given the chance to ask the million questions I currently have (and I'd have many more if I was an actual GM candidate), seems very strange.
The Globe is owned by the Red Sox. The media went harder after the Celts for the Jaylen Brown extension then they ever did for the Sox' 3 last place finishes.
Yeah there's literally ZERO harm in taking the interview. You go, you ask your questions, you get the answers, and if you are like, NFW would I do this, you politely say no thanks and move on. Don't just rely on what other people (who may or may not have an axe to grind) say. Find out for yourself.
This whole situation is beyond weird.
With $80m+ to spend (assuming ownership is fine with only monetary penalties) & a highly-rated farm system, the Red Sox should easily be able to acquire 2 big ticket pitchers. Whether that will be enough, whether they will acquire the right guys, & what else will they do is all up in the air, but from a baseball perspective, they are not in a bad place - if ownership is actually willing to spend.
Yeah, it isn't much of a stretch. You can't keep cycling through people at the rate the Sox have and leaving them feeling hard done by and not expect some blowback. Baseball is very insular and all these people have friends, and their friends have friends, and they all talk. What are they hearing?
I also just have to say, not so bothered by the actual decision itself, but when I thought they had some kind of target that made firing Bloom the way they did, with the timing they did, as a necessary part of some grand offseason plan that needed to be jump-started, I rationalized it. Seeing that this wasn't the case and we are now grabbing wildly at everything in the pantry, firing an observant Jew on erev Rosh Hashanah is just classless. They could have picked many other days. There was zero need for that one in particular and it's totally thoughtless and weird in a way that has become kind of emblematic of departures in this town. Everyone who has left the Sox has landed on their feet and that's fine and maybe this is a minor nitpick, but I'm sure it hasn't inspired any of them to recommend the job to others. I can only imagine what Chaim might be saying when others reach out. Or Dombrowski. Or Cherington.
Guys turn down the highest bidders sometimes these days, that is the issue here IMO as much as willingness to spend.
So why do you think they're doing that? Clearly these candidates know way way more about the actual situation than any of us.
Who was 25. Will they be willing to spend on guys closer to traditional free agency age? Likely not.
I would hope they would be honest about the budget for this season with potential candidates. But with the lessened non-financial penalties, having reset this past year & being a very high revenue team, it would kind of be a giant FU to everyone if they aren't treating that 3rd threshold the way they did the 1st threshold this year & making sure they are just a bit under it with room to add at the deadline.
So we shall see.
Yeah for sure, and obviously there's something VERY bizarre going on at Fenway that's making these people not even come in for an interview. But still....I don't understand. Let Henry/Warner fly you first class in for an interview. Let them wine and dine you. You ask them your million questions, get very clear and concise answers for yourself about their process, their philosophy, their willingness to spend $$, how things will be run, etc. Get it straight from the horse's mouth(s). Then make your call. There's literally no harm in going through that. And if nothing else, you learn of their philosophy and ideas, so if you become the GM of another team, you have really good intel to use when dealing with the Sox.
It's a no-lose, no-risk situation.
Man, sometimes I hate being right (this was my first thought I posted after Bloom was fired).
Sorry for the drive-by post, as I don't really have a lot to add to this conversation. I have, honestly, come around to being okay with moving on from Bloom (even though I wanted him to get one more year), but I felt from the start like this was the kind of thing that shows an organization that is in complete disarray. I especially felt this way because of how badly I want to see Cora shown the door, and it would/does not surprise me at all that his continued employment and perceived power in the organization is a major sticking point for any candidate who is considering the job.
You guys know how excited I was going into the 2023 season, and I felt that way all last winter, and even as the team was struggling in August I felt a lot of hope for the organization's future.
Now, well, I guess we will see.
It’s also basically the Sale / Price model. Which, got DD canned, even after the best season in franchise history.
So, if you somehow land two pitchers and everything works out perfectly, you still probably won’t last long.
Combination of unrealistic expectations and unclear organizational structure isn’t great.
That model can work fine if you have enough cost-controlled talent (& pick the right pitchers).
This is how Boston's been for quite a while though right? And they regularly got well regarded FO and managerial talent. The main things that seem to have changed are the budget, competition, and ownership perception. I struggle to pin this current state of affairs on either of those given that this isn't a new phenomenon.
We'll see soon enough. Did ownership change their stance on the value of half a billion dollar contracts after being horrible this year? They sure changed things up already in whacking Bloom.
If we look at the last ten years of spending by this team (I don't go back further, but I doubt that it's very different there either), they've been third in spending five times and first twice. I'd be surprised if their plan is to start spending like Tampa.
How many jobs have zero restrictions on spending? And how often do they become available? If you are waiting for a GM that will let you sign Ohtani and whoever else you want, no questions asked, there's like 4 jobs that will satisfy you. And they are all currently occupied (actually, I guess one of them -- the Mets -- is open. But you get my point.)
The Red Sox were 6th in spending last year. They dropped lower this year only to get under the tax -- all indications are they will vault higher next year.
That said, clearly something is turning people away. I don't know what it is. My guess it's related to uncertain chain of command. But people from the Twins and Marlins aren't turning this job down because they think the Sox won't spend enough.
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I don’t think the reluctance of people to put themselves out there for this job has anything to do with money. There are always tons of candidates even for teams with much less money to spend.
My best guess is that there is now a critical mass of former execs that all will tell you that ownership sucks to work for (either because they are too meddling, or willing to throw you under the bus, or give conflicting guidance, whatever).
If I’m a top GM candidate, and I text Bloom, DD, Cherington, and maybe some more junior people that have left the organization, and the consistent response I get from all of them is “ownership sucks, this is not a place you want to work,” I’m probably not going to put my hat in the ring unless I’m really desperate.
My best guess is that there is now a critical mass of former execs that all will tell you that ownership sucks to work for (either because they are too meddling, or willing to throw you under the bus, or give conflicting guidance, whatever).
If I’m a top GM candidate, and I text Bloom, DD, Cherington, and maybe some more junior people that have left the organization, and the consistent response I get from all of them is “ownership sucks, this is not a place you want to work,” I’m probably not going to put my hat in the ring unless I’m really desperate.
I think the idea all along was to build a great farm system that could consistently bring in young, cost-controlled talent, and then use their financial power to sign some big ticket guys that they really want. BUT they also wanted to be competitive in the meanwhile. So it was asking a lot of Bloom, and while he did a good job at some of this, clearly the team wasn't really competitive the last two years, so.....adios Chaim.
But the team IS in a good position, from the standpoint of talent on the farm, young talent in the majors, and lots of financial resources available. IF (and I have to believe this is true) ownership is willing to spend now, there's a pretty nice path for this team to become competitive again very quickly and then for a long time to come.
But the team IS in a good position, from the standpoint of talent on the farm, young talent in the majors, and lots of financial resources available. IF (and I have to believe this is true) ownership is willing to spend now, there's a pretty nice path for this team to become competitive again very quickly and then for a long time to come.
My guess is they want more control over hires (manager) and other parts of the operation than the FO is offering. It's perfectly reasonable to take a job where I can choose my staff and implement a system of how to do things than have them forced upon me, especially when those are likely going to be integral to my success.
Add in the pressure from the media and the so-so roster that needs a lot of pieces and there you go.
I think it's just one of many qualities you can't separate from the other ones though. Like you said, finding a job with minimal financial and ownership constraints with carte blanche on staffing, easy media and fans, a cupcake division, and a long leash, etc is not viable... But finding a job with a few of those? Sure. Like let's take the White Sox. Ownership is funky, budget isn't great, but Reinsdorf stuck with Kenny for two decades, the AL Central is an easier division, fans and media are less fervent, the GM chose staff. Getz was an internal promotion but I could see a good FO candidate who may not be as concerned about spending for Boston but to where their unwillingness to get caught in a huge FA contract combined with everything else may be enough.
Or to be more cavalier, if they expect a win now GM but won't let them pursue S tier FAs, that could also be enough.
But how does a GM candidate know that Sox' ownership wouldn't let them pursue top tier FAs?
Honest question for folks: who among those left are you more excited for than you would've been for Y5 of Chaim Bloom?
I'd assume among those interviewing they would ask. Among those not interviewing, maybe they ask former or current Sox FO folks, maybe they read the tea leaves.
I dunno, seeing the Betts thing might be enough. The condition of the last GM was showing him the door and Devers happened as fan and media pressure hit a fever pitch.
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