One thing Steve Bulpett said on a recent Cs Beat podcast - and I know peeps have said the same thing in this forum before but Bulpett just reminded me of this - is that DA's best attribute as a GM was that he never did anything just to keep his job. He may not have been correct all the time but no one ever doubted that he was doing things in what he thought was the Cs best interest.It’s taken me a little time to process this decision. For my part, I’m going to miss Ainge. I love the “Bleed Green”-types as KG would say. Danny was the kind of guy who I never doubted would be working every angle all the time to improve this team.
Now you have to try to find that commercial on YouTube to share.It's 1986, the C's are Kings of the World, I am living and teaching in West Newton, and I am taking a walk on Albemarle Street heading back to where I was teaching when a man in a Corvette passes me, stops, and then backs up. The passenger window opens up, and it's Danny Ainge. "So sorry to bother you, but I am making a basketball commercial at Fessenden, and I don't really know where it is."
"I teach there, Danny. I'll show you if you want to give me a ride there."
"Great! Get in!"
I then directed Danny to the gym where Robert Parrish and Larry Bird were waiting for him. I shook hands with all three, Danny thanked me profusely and then went into the gym. On our way to Fessenden, we talked about his days with the Blue Jays after I told him that I saw him play third base at Fenway one night game.
For a celebrated professional athlete, he was both humble and genuine. That was a cool moment.
I've been searching!Now you have to try to find that commercial on YouTube to share.
The real estate market may never be higher. Perfect time to sell if you are planning to live somewhere else most of the time.Nor would I, but I would keep a place here.
that’s a very busy street.
Ainge gave Al a max in the first place, which many people criticized for years, I think he has to get some credit for Al too.I get it but what a slight to Al.
Yam was the 47th pick in the draft. It's not remotely a black mark on Ainge's record if he misses on that one.Book isn't totally done on Ainge though Nesmith isn't promising. There's also Yam who probably isn't anything.
It will be forever until we can evaluate Brad the drafter. Though if Juhann is a hit, that's a great start. 2nd rounders are free rolls though.
Right, but Ainge gets credit if Yam does hit. 2nd rounders are free rolls. Just like Stevens doesn't get dinged if Juhann misses but gets a lot of credit if Juhann hits.Yam was the 47th pick in the draft. It's not remotely a black mark on Ainge's record if he misses on that one.
Can't evaluate the drafter if he never makes a 1st round pick, guytappinghistemple.jpg...
It will be forever until we can evaluate Brad the drafter. Though if Juhann is a hit, that's a great start. 2nd rounders are free rolls though.
Yeah, that's what I meant but I wasn't clear. I don't see the C's using a 1st round pick for awhile.Can't evaluate the drafter if he never makes a 1st round pick, guytappinghistemple.jpg
Can you blame Ainge for G Hayward physically collapsing within minutes of starting his Celtics career? Probably not.Ainge gave Al a max in the first place, which many people criticized for years, I think he has to get some credit for Al too.
Having a switchable defense is more important to a team featuring two star wings than having a scoring PG that can get to the rim. Not only did Brad buy into a roster with a good sized defensive oriented PG, he doubled down with the Derrick White acquisition.If there one move to blame Danny for, it is for choosing door #1 (Kyrie walks, Horford walks, Terry walks, Kemba signed) instead of door #2 (Kyrie walks, Horford is re-signed, Terry is re-signed, no Kemba). I was down on Terry after 2019 and that set of moves would not have gone over well, but, in hindsight, Horford out/Kemba in did not work out well for us.
At a bigger picture level, Danny was committed to the small, score-first PG, cycling through 3 of them during Stevens' coaching tenure and trying to develop a 4th (Rozier).
Is it an accident that the Celtics best playoff run with Stevens as coach came with the most defensively capable of Danny's little PGs (Rozier) starting? And that as soon as Stevens took over for Danny he moved the team in a different direction - and it worked?
Do we even know that Al returning was on the table? I’m sure that money matters, but the reporting at the time suggested that he was turned off by the clubhouse as I recall.If there one move to blame Danny for, it is for choosing door #1 (Kyrie walks, Horford walks, Terry walks, Kemba signed) instead of door #2 (Kyrie walks, Horford is re-signed, Terry is re-signed, no Kemba). I was down on Terry after 2019 and that set of moves would not have gone over well, but, in hindsight, Horford out/Kemba in did not work out well for us.
The contract he was offered by Philly was supposedly much larger than what Ainge was willing to offer at the time. But, IIRC, Horford also took the Philly offer once he received it and really didn't give Boston much, if any, opportunity to better Philly's offer. I don't know if Horford and his agent felt there was no need to give Boston the opportunity (after all, his agent should have had an idea of what Boston was willing to offer), or if Horford really wanted out; or if it was a little bit of both (my guess).Do we even know that Al returning was on the table? I’m sure that money matters, but the reporting at the time suggested that he was turned off by the clubhouse as I recall.
From everything I've read, it was mostly Al's choice, and one he came to quickly regret. Whenever he's talked about it since, you can almost smell the relief that he didn't end up destroying the end of his career with that decision.The contract he was offered by Philly was supposedly much larger than what Ainge was willing to offer at the time. But, IIRC, Horford also took the Philly offer once he received it and really didn't give Boston much, if any, opportunity to better Philly's offer. I don't know if Horford and his agent felt there was no need to give Boston the opportunity (after all, his agent should have had an idea of what Boston was willing to offer), or if Horford really wanted out; or if it was a little bit of both (my guess).
He also wanted to play the 4, which is why Philly. But part of his dissatisfaction was also that the Celtics weren't pro-active about contract talks, I think they more or less made him a take it or leave it discount offer - or at least an initial offer low enough to sour him on a return.Do we even know that Al returning was on the table? I’m sure that money matters, but the reporting at the time suggested that he was turned off by the clubhouse as I recall.
Whoever suggested Ainge should have his number retired was right. I don't think he did enough for long enough as a player, but add in his record as an executive (build the 2008 team, dissassemble that team to get the draft picks needed to rebuild, rebuild effectively with those picks, leave in place a legit title contender whose stars were drafted by Ainge, whose 8 man playoff rotation has 6 players drafted by Ainge and one Ainge free agent signing even though he left and was reacquired after Aingle left). He also hired a good coach to oversee the rebuilding, and that coach went on to succeed him and make the right moves.If he had picked Grant and PP instead of Romeo and Nesmith, those picks would not be viewed as missses, right?
How do you order who gets credit for this (players not included)? I'd say Ainge, Ime, Brad.
They had a broken Kemba after the bubble. The best chance the Brad-coached Celtics had to reach the finals after 2018 was the bubble playoffs. But Kemba was damaged goods then, as was Hayward.What the fuck, people? Philly overpaid to get their Embiid killer off their conference rival. There was literally zero chance the Celtics would—or should—have offered Al $95M.
This board way overstates Danny’s mistakes largely because the team had a broken Kemba the last season he was here and thin depth that year.
My only real quibble with this post is that, to me, it reflects how most people around here feel about the situation. Perhaps I’m wrong about that, but I think most posters agree with this take.What the fuck, people? Philly overpaid to get their Embiid killer off their conference rival. There was literally zero chance the Celtics would—or should—have offered Al $95M.
This board way overstates Danny’s mistakes largely because the team had a broken Kemba the last season he was here and thin depth that year. If Hayward doesn’t shatter his ankle and Kemba’s knee doesn’t get destroyed in the ASG (by Nick Nurse?) we likely have another banner or two. As importantly, we don’t go through all the roster turnover and cap machinations that came with losing Al and Hayward. He was absolutely one of the league’s best executives and kept them competitive despite a number of devastating and unpredictable injuries over which he had zero control. Even last year’s flawed team probably wins a few against the Nets if Jaylen a wrist doesn’t go to shit.
Likewise, we underestimate Brad’s coaching prowess because of how the team played and was perceived to have responded to him over two seasons – one in which he had a star completely go off the rails while another played his way back from a devastating injury and another two years later in which the roster was thinner than it had been in any season since probably 2015. Meanwhile we hand wave how Brad brought a team of rookies and also-rans to within a game of the Finals and had them in multiple Conference Finals in the midst of most of this – instead we invent some narrative about how he couldn’t manage “established stars.”
Maybe it’s hard to acknowledge because the team consistently and immediately bounced back multiple times, but this Celtics team has been incredibly unlucky and these two worked incredibly well together for almost a decade. As elated as I am about this team at present, I feel reasonably confident they would have again if Danny hadn’t run out of gas with his health and the pandemic.
I hadn’t thought about this. I think it’s a terrific idea and I hope the team does this. He has 100 percent earned it.Despite Danny's protestations to the contrary, I think his number belongs in the rafters.
Al has agency too, and he very quickly came to see leaving Boston as a mistake.What the fuck, people? Philly overpaid to get their Embiid killer off their conference rival. There was literally zero chance the Celtics would—or should—have offered Al $95M.
Although we're happily paying him on the back end of that contract now.What the fuck, people? Philly overpaid to get their Embiid killer off their conference rival. There was literally zero chance the Celtics would—or should—have offered Al $95M.
I can’t blame Al for choosing money and potentially greener pastures after what happened that season. But I also don’t blame Danny or Brad for any of it.Al has agency too, and he very quickly came to see leaving Boston as a mistake.
Wrt the money: he's made a ton of it, and is clearly someone who cares about winning and playing in a good environment. He thought Philly would be that, and it wasn't.
I don't blame him particularly, but the idea that he made a mistake in balancing the money-winning-satisfaction equation is something I think Al himself would readily agree with.
Sure but I don’t think part of that contract from Danny would have included Al sitting out almost an entire season for roster management reasons. Al has looked fresher this season than probably any year since 2017 maybe. It’s hard to see that happening if he plays out the string of his contract to this point.Although we're happily paying him on the back end of that contract now.
Agree with your post and just to add, reports from that time was that Al wanted additional years and the Cs were willing to give him a 4-year deal but for less guaranteed money. Other subsequent reports were that Al thought he had a better chance winning a title with PHI. I guess even talented, cerebral basketball players don't always make very good GMs.What the fuck, people? Philly overpaid to get their Embiid killer off their conference rival. There was literally zero chance the Celtics would—or should—have offered Al $95M.
I'll note that we're likely only happy about Al's contract because he was able to take a year off.Although we're happily paying him on the back end of that contract now.
This is a super interesting question.I would be interested to know, however, whether there was any discussion about Marcus at the point following Kyrie's departure and how Danny felt about it.
The Celtics didn't need cap room; they could have used the Bird exception for Horford to resign him.I am going to have to Google to try and find this but I thought that Horford accepted a deal from the Sixers because he thought the Celtics wouldn’t have the cap room to sign him and didn’t want to play with Kyrie?
I believe the Celtics then cleared room and made him a similar offer (though less $ than Philly) but by that time Al had already made the commitment and didn’t want to break it
And before that he nailed the Rozier and Smart picks. We’ve all litigated the Olynyk decision but dude’s still in the league and has been productive so that was another hit. Guys like Young, Langford, and probably Nesmith were misses but they weren’t high picks.After Brown and Tatum, Ainge drafted Rob, Langford, Grant, Nesmith, Pritchard.
At worst, that’s a starter and 2 rotation players on a championship contending team. That’s a decent haul, and perhaps pretty good value for the (not too 5) picks.
Langford was also the key piece in getting White. I guess some would argue the pick swap, but I don't know.After Brown and Tatum, Ainge drafted Rob, Langford, Grant, Nesmith, Pritchard.
At worst, that’s a starter and 2 rotation players on a championship contending team. That’s a decent haul, and perhaps pretty good value for the (not too 5) picks.
Spurs didn't even play Langford. He was matching salary.Langford was also the key piece in getting White. I guess some would argue the pick swap, but I don't know.
The biggest is still him taking Tatum when probably every other GM in the league takes Fultz.
Yes, it wasn't the cap space. My take at the time was they were simply not going to pay what they thought the market would offer him and didn't make much of an effort to extend him either...The Celtics didn't need cap room; they could have used the Bird exception for Horford to resign him.