So then how do you fix it? Sounds like you’re saying Bill must go.The guy who shops for the groceries and puts the staff together. The buck stops with him and him alone.
It has to be Bill the GM, I actually missed that option because I saw Matty P and immediately pulled the trigger but Matty P wasn't brought back to be the OC originally, he fell into that role after Bill the GM chose not to find an actual OC. Whatever happened to putting the players and I assume coaches by extension in the best possible situation to succeed. Having a former defensive coordinator and failed HC become both your OC and OL coach was so poorly thought out. It borders on hubris that Bill thought this could possibly work. You'd think a historian of the game would have more respect for the years of training and experience most OC's go through before getting their shot. To hand the reigns of the offense to Matty and Judge is inconceivable.If we are saying that the Patricia hiring is on Bill the GM, then Bill the GM gets my vote.
If the hiring is on Bill the HC, then Patricia gets my vote.
My vote is currently counting for Bill the GM.
Yup. I kind of think it’s time. He’s been here over 20 years. 2 of the last 3 years have not been good. His FA acquisitions have sucked. He hasn’t been great in the draft. He has a thin coaching staff and won’t hire real assistants. He can’t be allowed to hang out for a personal record. They cannot become the 80s Steelers under Noll or the mid 80s Cowboys under Landry. I thank Bill for the last 20 plus years but it’s time to move into the future with a coach that can be an offensive innovator.So then how do you fix it? Sounds like you’re saying Bill must go.
That doesn't necessarily follow--we can expect BB to reevaluate and make better decisions as well. He thought this group would respond to Patricia. He was clearly wrong. If he moves on in the offseason (or today!) then fine.So then how do you fix it? Sounds like you’re saying Bill must go.
Two years ago they were a little below average. Last year they were good. Not great but good. This year they are average.Yup. I kind of think it’s time. He’s been here over 20 years. 2 of the last 3 years have not been good. His FA acquisitions have sucked. He hasn’t been great in the draft. He has a thin coaching staff and won’t hire real assistants. He can’t be allowed to hang out for a personal record. They cannot become the 80s Steelers under Noll or the mid 80s Cowboys under Landry. I thank Bill for the last 20 plus years but it’s time to move into the future with a coach that can be an offensive innovator.
I voted O-Line, but this post is pretty much exactly my thought process on deeper thought.The OL is such a glaring mess that it's hard not to single them out but there is a litany of problems on offense and they all trace their way back to Bill the GM (drafting, FA, bringing in Patricia and Judge).
Yes I agree: the Henry, Smith and Agholor signings have been a disaster.I generally find much of the criticism of Bill the GM to be misplaced talk radio nonsense, but to me it's obviously the issue here:
The investment has been there on offense. The results have not.
- Isaiah Wynn is the highest-paid and highest-drafted member of the OL. He's been bad, benched, and now injured
- Nelson Agholor has the fifth-highest WR cap hit in football. He vacillates between WR3-5 and is on place to barely clear 500 yards
- They are paying Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith 8 figures a year. They barely run any 2 TE stuff because the combination is so bad. Jonnu is a $12.5 MM / year backup. He played less than 20 snaps last night for the second game in a row and the fourth time this year
- Mac is the highest-drafted player on O and has been one of the worst QBs in football this year
Agree 100%.I went with Matty P. As @CoffeeNerdness put it in the Goat thread, he has two jobs and is utterly incompetent at both of them. I think I'd have to go back to the 1992 squad to see a Pats OL as consistently sloppy, seemingly ill-prepared, and just plain stupid as this crew. And aside from the Marcus Jones TD and a handful of other plays, the overall offensive scheme and situational play-calling this season has ranged from head scratching to frustrating to WTF are they doing?
Some of the blame for this absolutely falls on Belichick--but he's earned enough confidence from me to wait and see what changes he makes to the staff in the offseason. If it's largely status quo, then it's time for the Krafts to start thinking more deeply about Life After Bill. But I don't think we're there yet. BB has often shown that he's flexible and learns from his mistakes. But the clock has begun to tick.
Bill the head coach doesn't necessarily need to be let go, but the Krafts should be looking to hiring a GM and explaining to Belichick that he can be a voice in those decisions, but he is no longer THE voice in those decisions. And if he wants to move on under those circumstances, then so be it.So then how do you fix it? Sounds like you’re saying Bill must go.
The idea that an 81 year old Bob Kraft is suddenly after 20+ years gonna march into Belichick's office and tell him there's a new way of doing things is so beyond any type of reality that it's ineffable.Bill the head coach doesn't necessarily need to be let go, but the Krafts should be looking to hiring a GM and explaining to Belichick that he can be a voice in these decisions, but he is no longer THE voice in thise decisions. And if he wants to move on under those circumstances, then so be it.
Henry was quite worthy of the signing last year. I doubt he suddenly got worse at this age, I think coaching/OL play is probably the main difference. I think Smith could go elsewhere and be productive, as well.Yes I agree: the Henry, Smith and Agholor signings have been a disaster.
Then the team would be better off without him going forward. Because this paucity of talent on the field and on the sidelines is on him.The idea that an 81 year old Bob Kraft is suddenly after 20+ years gonna march into Belichick's office and tell him there's a new way of doing things is so beyond any type of reality that it's ineffable.
It's not gonna happen, so people really need to stop hoping for it. Like it or not this is BB's show and Kraft isn't going to change the paradigm now.
Chances of Kraft canning Bill this offseason? 0%, even if they finish 6-11.Then the team would be better off without him going forward. Because this paucity of talent on the field and on the sidelines is on him.
The thing about those offensive signings is: they signed so many guys - Bourne, Smith, Henry, Agholor - that, given there's only one ball to go around, it's impossible for ALL of them to look like good signings, because what most people do is just look at the stats. But last week Mac threw for 382 yards and 2 touchdowns. Obviously statistically a great game. What's the ideal distribution of those 382 yards? SOMEONE is going to look bad statistically even on a night when they threw for a monster number of yards.Henry was quite worthy of the signing last year. I doubt he suddenly got worse at this age, I think coaching/OL play is probably the main difference. I think Smith could go elsewhere and be productive, as well.
As for Wynn, I think the achilles injury cooked him. About the worst possible injury for a young, large Tackle to suffer.
I'll be as devastated as anyone here were Belichick's Pats career to end in a dismissal instead of retirement. But there's a difference between pulling the plug on your grandfather and taking away his car keys. It's time they take away Bill's car keys, at least when it comes to personnel issues.Chances of Kraft canning Bill this offseason? 0%, even if they finish 6-11.
But even Bill's seat gets warm if the team disappoints next year.
There is a reason their original team didn’t give them a second contract (Henry/Smith). They weren't building block pieces. Agholor has been on multiple teams for a reason because he’s inconsistent.Do you think the contracts given to Agholor, Smith, and Henry were good? I get that not all of them can put up big numbers but none of them are; and Smith barely even plays. They spent a ton of money on offensive weapons and the offense is still mediocre, especially against decent teams.
This is a good point. Going into the year, I think most of us believed the OL was solid if lacking depth. Lackluster play from Wynn and Brown plus injuries has really decimated the unit. They need to continue to invest here and will need to add multiple players in the offseason.They need a ton of quality OL talent not only for the starting OL but also depth. I think Andrews and Onwenu are good. I think Strange has the ability to be very good but he's just a rookie. The tackles are a mess, an absolute mess, and that's not something I thought coming into the year. And they have no depth, so when a guy goes down, some trash heap pickup named McDermott comes in and is a mess too.
Do we need to go here? You can make your point without the irrelevant personal attacks about someone's weight.fat-ass
I know many were excited about the Jonuu signing but he was the weird one to me. Signed him very early to a massive TE contract yet he was basically benched in TN by a Bill B disciple because he was known not to be a good route runner. Sure he can make plays if you get the ball in his hands, though even that skill might be gone, but there is a reason TN barely used him down the stretch of his contract year and it wasn't because they had a plethora of receivers.There is a reason their original team didn’t give them a second contract (Henry/Smith). They weren't building block pieces. Agholor has been on multiple teams for a reason because he’s inconsistent.
The Henry contract is fine. His AAV is below Waller, Kittle, Kelce, Goedert, Andrews, Njoku, and Knox. And just above Jonu, Gesicki, Scultz, Ertz, Taysom. That seems about right.Do you think the contracts given to Agholor, Smith, and Henry were good? I get that not all of them can put up big numbers but none of them are; and Smith barely even plays. They spent a ton of money on offensive weapons and the offense is still mediocre, especially against decent teams.