The Brooklyn Renaissance
- Thread starter Blacken
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Great news(not the actual injury, just helps them continue their losing ways and the Celtics' positioning for a dream scenario of two top-5 picks in the upcoming draft).Blacken said:
If the Nets end up with a top 5 pick, Atlanta would get it unless Atlanta's own pick improbably ends up in the top 5 too.RedOctober3829 said:
And, as ZaZa knows, "nothing easy!" when it comes to the Hawks.RedOctober3829 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etgc2adew8U
Split off from the November NBA game thread.
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Brooklyn looks like a slow-motion disaster in the making. Pierce is injured. Garnett looks old and creaky. Williams looks pretty bad too. Kidd looks incompetent as a coach and a leader.
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Brooklyn looks like a slow-motion disaster in the making. Pierce is injured. Garnett looks old and creaky. Williams looks pretty bad too. Kidd looks incompetent as a coach and a leader.
Perhaps not the most appropriate thread title this week...
When does Jason Kidd get fired and remembered as the Magic Johnson TV host of NBA coaches?
When does Jason Kidd get fired and remembered as the Magic Johnson TV host of NBA coaches?
The Social Chair said:
Wow, I thought this was a joke when I read your post, but it's true.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/kidd-frank-longer-nets-coaching-staff-article-1.1536601
I don't think Kidd matters a lot one way or the other, although he may take the fall.
As Deron Williams goes, so go the Nets. KG and PP are just role players now, and JJ is not an alpha dog. Never was.
As Deron Williams goes, so go the Nets. KG and PP are just role players now, and JJ is not an alpha dog. Never was.
Woj with the inside scoop on Twitter, check out that contract for Frank!!! Nice work if you can get it...
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBAhttps://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA
Assistant coach Lawrence Frank, who Nets "reassigned," has a 6-year deal that averages over $1 million a year. Breakup had been building.
Nets recruited Frank hard to be part of Kidd's staff; paid him well. Frank could've joined Rivers' staff in LA, but stayed home in NY-area.
Kidd lost cool w/ Frank inside a coaching staff meeting in early November, league sources say, and partnership was soon doomed to this end.
Around league, coaching sources insist Frank had been willing to help Kidd in any way Kidd wanted of him. "He was loyal," one source says.
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Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBAhttps://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA
Assistant coach Lawrence Frank, who Nets "reassigned," has a 6-year deal that averages over $1 million a year. Breakup had been building.
Nets recruited Frank hard to be part of Kidd's staff; paid him well. Frank could've joined Rivers' staff in LA, but stayed home in NY-area.
Kidd lost cool w/ Frank inside a coaching staff meeting in early November, league sources say, and partnership was soon doomed to this end.
Around league, coaching sources insist Frank had been willing to help Kidd in any way Kidd wanted of him. "He was loyal," one source says.
Kirilenko and Terry have also been hurting. That's what can happen when you have a bunch of guys in their mid 30's.
Lawrence Frank may not be the best coach who ever lived, but he's had success in the league, he's not an idiot, and by all accounts he's a decent guy. Never heard anything bad about him in the his first stint with the Nets.
Occam's Razor tells me Kidd is the asshole here, since he has a history of being an asshole, and Frank does not. I hope Kidd won't be around for long. I am an indifferent NBA fan, but I live in Brooklyn and I'd like to develop an affinity for the Nets. I find it hard to do with the wife-beating drunk driver on the sidelines.
I was at the Barclays Center for a non-Nets event (beautiful arena, a little small) and was looking around. The Nets have retired numbers hanging from the rafters, one of whom is for Drazen Petrovic. The irony of installing a drunk driver as head coach when one of your biggest stars was killed in a car accident was not lost on me. Well, maybe it's not ironic, and maybe one has nothing to do with the other but Jason Kidd is a penis, and any chance I get to think so is fine by me.
Occam's Razor tells me Kidd is the asshole here, since he has a history of being an asshole, and Frank does not. I hope Kidd won't be around for long. I am an indifferent NBA fan, but I live in Brooklyn and I'd like to develop an affinity for the Nets. I find it hard to do with the wife-beating drunk driver on the sidelines.
I was at the Barclays Center for a non-Nets event (beautiful arena, a little small) and was looking around. The Nets have retired numbers hanging from the rafters, one of whom is for Drazen Petrovic. The irony of installing a drunk driver as head coach when one of your biggest stars was killed in a car accident was not lost on me. Well, maybe it's not ironic, and maybe one has nothing to do with the other but Jason Kidd is a penis, and any chance I get to think so is fine by me.
So if Mike Woodson is fired do they immediately hire Frank to fill in or do they wait a few days and pretend they're going to be able to attract a big name?
Is it remotely possible that Pierce resigns in Boston at the vet minimum next year in a bench/mentoring role?
cardiacs said:
I think PP will be back in Boston at some point, even if its just a signing for a day and then retirement. But I could easily see him coming back in the role you suggest (assuming him and '86 have a clear understanding of what his role will actually be in Boston).
Back on topic, I feel for guys like Garnett and Pierce as well as some of the other veterans. This is not what they signed up for at all. I mean, they are still better off than 99.9% of the planet overall but you have to believe this is killing those guys in particular after having to leave the C's.
ALiveH said:
Can we never forget how much ESPN NBA analyst Bill Simmons was against the trade? I like this tweet
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/350304660172713984
moly99 said:
Give him a little credit for admitting his mistake. No one is right all the time - I mostly appreciate him taking stands on issues like this. Sometimes he gets in a rut (e.g. "Doc Rivers is terrible") and no one wins from that.
The Nets just do not have the pieces that fit together nicely to form a good basketball team. Pierce and Johnson are similar players that really do not mesh well together. KG is a shell of his former self, $12 million for 6-7 and -0.1 WS so far is not what you want.
Williams strikes me as someone who does not seem happy in any situation and he is not the right PG to run this team. I can picture him getting upset with all of KGs rah-rah shit and eventually going off. Having an inexperienced coach does not help matters either.
Williams strikes me as someone who does not seem happy in any situation and he is not the right PG to run this team. I can picture him getting upset with all of KGs rah-rah shit and eventually going off. Having an inexperienced coach does not help matters either.
crystalline said:
I go up and down on Simmons -- he certainly has an insufferable side (the Rivers thing being an example). But I agree with you on this in re the Celts trade -- you have strong opinions you'll be wrong sometimes, much better than commentators who hedge on everything. I watched a ton of the Bill and Jalen video series on each NBA team pre-season and found them enjoyable and informative and dead-wrong on any number of the calls that BS made with smug certainty. Being so dead-wrong so often doesn't detract from my enjoyment of good sports talk, way better than what is on the radio or tv.
Plus Jalen Rose is a hoot -- good chemistry there.
I enjoy Bill, but he was incessantly crapping on the trade at the time. I (and others) said he was being shortsighted* at the time (in the trade thread here) and it's amusing to see him do a 180 2 months into the season.
*to be fair i didn't expect it to pay off so quickly.
*to be fair i didn't expect it to pay off so quickly.
Well nothing has paid off for Boston quite yet. We have (disregarding second round picks, which net out to about zero for the Celtics):
- the 2014 pick from Atlanta - which won't be a lottery pick
- the 2015 pick from the Clippers - ditto
- the 2016 pick from the Nets. For the preceding season, the Nets have $61MM tied up in Williams, Lopez and JJ. They will have some money to spend rounding out that roster, but not enough to get really good, so that pick will have some value.
- the right to swap first round picks with the Nets in 2017. Only Williams is signed through the previous year, so who knows what they will have for a roster by then?
- the 2018 pick from the Nets - Nobody is signed through then, so who knows?
Thanks, I will go back and look at some of those. Other good NBA podcasts/streaming suggestions welcome.Tony C said:
People forget how long the season is and how the only important thing for this team is to win enough games to make the playoffs and be healthy when the second season begins. Playing in this division helps them immensely.
I'll throw $50 bucks on the Nets to win the Eastern Conference when Kidd is fired and then hedge my bet when they play Miami in the Eastern Conference Finals and lose.
I'll throw $50 bucks on the Nets to win the Eastern Conference when Kidd is fired and then hedge my bet when they play Miami in the Eastern Conference Finals and lose.
jon abbey said:
I interpret that as Frank roughly said "Jason, you have no idea what you are doing and need to listen to your assistants who do" and Kidd flipped out.
It is an utter joke that they hired him and this has played out in a predictable way. While I usually think coaching is not very important (in the big picture, next to talent) when you have an expensive, veteran roster full of guys with expectations and different games you need a coach that knows what the hell he is doing...and hiring one who clearly doesn't may well be the root cause of the problems in Brooklyn.
bowiac said:
The roster is eons better, even if they are old and the pieces may or may not ever fit.
Still, the difference between being priced as having a 55% chance of winning (the Nets) and a 20% chance of winning is extremely stark. Are the Knicks really almost three times less likely to put it together than the Nets?PedroKsBambino said:
In my view yes, because Deron Williams, if playing reasonably well, is far superior to anyone the Knicks have at pg. Plus the Knicks offense is one dimensional (Melo plus JR Smith) and is therefore much easier to defend.bowiac said:
bowiac said:
I think so---and I expect part of that line reflects an assumption the Nets will get a legitimate coach in place, which I expect to help a great deal. A reasonably healthy Nets team sends out Lopez/Garnett/Pierce/Williams/Johnson with Kirilenko/Terry/Blatche off the bench. Maybe several of those guys really never get healthy, but the players are there. The Knicks have an angry Carmelo, wishing on Chandler not just getting back, but truly getting healthy, and no assets or upside on the roster.
The knicks have a pretty low ceiling at this point---40ish wins and thus need everyone else to be worse. I just don't see that as at all likely given where they are right now; they'd need to go 37-28 rest of way to even get to 40 wins, and that's probably close to the ceiling of their roster. That is worse than they played last year, but the team is pretty clearly worse, too.
It's not that I'm optimistic about the Knicks. I thought they were a 40 win team preseason, so obviously they're gonna struggle to get there given injuries and this start. It's more that I'm skeptical of the Nets getting it together. We'll see I guess.
Right, I think the Nets may be a worse bet than that line---I do think there has to be a lot of doubt about them still. It is just that given the alternative selections, someone has to be the favorite, too. The Nets have by far the best roster, and so all other things equal that's probably the best bet.