The Celtics Offseason
- Thread starter kazuneko
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I've had plantar fasciitis twice. Hurts like an absolute mother. BUT....honestly, I could still play basketball and other sports with it. Once you get it loosened up, you can do all kinds of things on it. But waking up in the morning, walking around before getting it stretched out, etc., is just awful beyond belief. Like having a railroad spike driven into your heel.
But I don't think this is something to worry about long-term. With the right treatment, he should be good to go in a few months, which may mean he misses some time early in the season, but if handled correctly, he should be fine for the majority of the season/playoffs, unless something ELSE happens. This isn't like chronic stress fractures or whatever.
But I don't think this is something to worry about long-term. With the right treatment, he should be good to go in a few months, which may mean he misses some time early in the season, but if handled correctly, he should be fine for the majority of the season/playoffs, unless something ELSE happens. This isn't like chronic stress fractures or whatever.
Yup. He had a bout with it. This isn’t a code red situation but it’s code yellow for me. This injury can linger for a long time. Hope KP is smart about it.
I knew there was some reason Stiemsma did not live up to Tommy's prediction of Bill Russell's defensive impact---darn plantar fasciitis.
One benefit of us moving Tatum back to the 3, is he probably will be able to get out in transition more, and he is fucking incredible on the break.
View: https://twitter.com/YSK2092/status/1691588064899109265?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/YSK2092/status/1691588064899109265?s=20
Foot issues always a little scary for someone his size, but I'd be much more worried about a stress fracture or stress reaction (especially navicular or metatarsal) compared to plantar fasciitis.
If you gave me the choice for KP of plantar fasciitis/not playing vs healthy/playing, I'd probably take plantar fasciitis and not playing as a Celtics fan. At least he won't re-tear his ACL cheering from the bench (knock on wood).
If you gave me the choice for KP of plantar fasciitis/not playing vs healthy/playing, I'd probably take plantar fasciitis and not playing as a Celtics fan. At least he won't re-tear his ACL cheering from the bench (knock on wood).
I've always gotten the sense that Tatum avoids running in transition not so much because of his role (other than his rookie season, he's led the team in total rebounds every single year and likely will again in 2024), but to conserve energy. He's played more minutes than anyone else in the league over the last few years so I'll generally forgive the occasional attempt to slow down, but it would be really nice to see him run more for easy buckets.
That's an interesting list in general - Lebron still near the top even at his age isn't surprising, considering that he's the most terrifying transition player in history. Jaylen was pretty good too (9th), and Giannis just missed the top 5 in points per possession, but led the league in fast break attempts. Westbrook at the bottom is just sad, that was his bread and butter for a long time.
Hell yeah. PF rendered Antonio Gates a shell of himself for two seasons. (only took me two cortisone shots, 6 weeks of PT, and fancy orthotics to relieve mine).
DOTB was banging the drum all playoffs long about how much better Jaylen was when out in transition, and I do think that's a place the team can improve....I'd like to see more uptempo and more comfort with running opportunisitically.
Nothing like a #NEBHInjuryReport Tweet in August. Guess it's better for it to happen now than in the spring.
@RorschachsMask has posted some data that says that this is wrong but, to my eye, it seems like Tatum is the biggest offender at not attempting to run/slowing it down for long periods of time.
White is the one who is ALWAYS looking to run and get it up the court. Hopefully that leads to easier buckets now that hes been given the keys as the PG
As long as we don’t get an ominous “If it were the regular season, he’d be playing” quote.
I'll second this.
Hugely bullish on White increasing the pace, running the Point & playing late/close.
In fairness, I've been on the "Full Speed Jaylen is the best Jaylen" kick for years now. He's at his best when he isn't thinking, and he's just playing. He's an instinctual scorer, if he knows the ball in his hands and everyone is clearing out, he's as good as anyone. If you force him to run an action like PnR's with the ball in his hands, that's when he gets picked or throws it away. And honestly, I think to a lesser extent, Tatum is the same way. It shouldn't have surprised anyone to see him and Tatum go out and combine for 90 in the All Star game. They are both all world, literally all world scorers. Let them eat.
However, I don't think Tatum is the biggest offender at slowing it down. Asking Tatum to be the point guard is a recipe for slowing it down.
The biggest offender was Smart. Putting White out there as the #1 changes this immediately. I wrote this in July after the Smart trade:
"And this fucking team needs to run, and run and run like their fucking hair is on fire.
That's what I think we're going to see so much more of this year with White running point instead of Smart. White gets the rock and he pushes almost constantly. This team in the open court can be almost unstoppable."
Jaylen working out with Tatum/Hanlen. I can’t recall ever seeing that in the past. Pierce and Tatum have been working out together too.
View: https://twitter.com/Ibra_Goat/status/1694081639113203992?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/Ibra_Goat/status/1694081639113203992?s=20
That's interesting for sure - not just for Tatum and Brown but teammates working out during the off-season is not a widespread phenomenon.
Tatum and Truth have definitely been putting out workout stuff on the socials of late. Setting aside his extracurriculars, Pierce definitely seems like a good basketball influence on Tatum. I am guessing KG is lurking around these guys too.
Celtics are meeting and working out TJ Warren and Lamar Stevens.
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1694140593209811230?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1694140593209811230?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
I’d much prefer Lamar Stevens, I’ve wanted them to sign him since he’s been bought out.
He feels like a guy who could thrive in the right situation.
He feels like a guy who could thrive in the right situation.
Jay Scrubb says he's been working out in Atlanta with Horford, Brogdon, Banton, JD and Walsh.
I have had a conversation with him [Joe Mazzulla.] He was in Atlanta coming to watch Malcolm and Al work out, and I had just happened to bump into him, just working where Malcolm and Al were...I can’t wait to get to Boston, man, and him to see [what shape] some of the younger guys are in right now. We’re just working out — Me, JD, Dalano, and Jordan. So I can’t wait for him to be able to come down and see what we’ve been doing these past couple of weeks, man, and I can’t wait to be able to get around [the team.]
https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/8/22/23839289/jay-scrubb-on-signing-with-boston-celtics-cracking-the-rotation-and-more-joe-mazzulla-new-nba-season
That's interesting as well. And I was unclear - I meant players of Tatum and Brown's caliber but perhaps its more common than I thought. Regardless its cool that they are working together outside of the team context.
Unfortunately there just isn't much evidence TJ Warren is ever going to be the same guy he was pre-injury is there? I didn't see a lot last year to give me optimism and stats aren't great. Did anyone see enough to have hope there?
Sure---what I more meant is "does anyone have reason to believe what we saw last year is different than what we'd get this year?"
Injury return isn't instant, and not always linear. And possible there's a useful role player in there even if no longer a starter/6th man who can really score. But I personally haven't seen it
Injury return isn't instant, and not always linear. And possible there's a useful role player in there even if no longer a starter/6th man who can really score. But I personally haven't seen it
Was Warren really a different player last year? Other than one isolated season where he shot much better than at any other point in his career, Warren has always basically been a well-balanced, slightly below average wing. I’d be happy to add him as depth with upside at a position the roster currently lacks depth. He’s a good option to compete with Hauser for minutes and brings a very different skillset to the roster.
Warren had two consecutive years before his injury of excellent three point shooting on league average attempts (.428, .403). He took nearly twice as many three pointers in those two years than his first 4 years in the league. I do think he is toast though, and is no better than several other guys who still don't have a job
Just hoping they just bring Blake back, a capable bench piece during the regular season, veteran towel waver in the Playoffs
Some info on Lamar Stevens here: https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2023/08/23/psu-star-boston-celtics-best-fit/. I think it would be great if the Cs signed a defensive "stopper"-type.
Cs also worm out Louis King: https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/celtics-meeting-with-three-of-the-top-remaining-free-agents-this-week#gid=ci02c78fafd0002578&pid=usatsi_20162452
Cs also worm out Louis King: https://www.si.com/nba/celtics/top-stories/celtics-meeting-with-three-of-the-top-remaining-free-agents-this-week#gid=ci02c78fafd0002578&pid=usatsi_20162452
I wouldn't write him off at all based on limited minutes following two missed seasons. It's not likely he's win a spot here but he had turned himself into a pretty good player who was pretty much a bucket whenever he choose prior to injury. He's still only 29.
I understand that. To the extent the issue is his shooting last year, I’m not sure there any good reason to think his 22/67 shooting is a sufficient sample size for his poor percentage to have any meaning. Aside from shooting, his per minute production was basically at/above his established levels across the board. I don’t know if he has a pathway back to being a 30 mpg player from a health perspective, but I think last year did more to demonstrate he can still play in this league than that he cannot, at least if you can look past SSS shooting percentages.
Isn't TJ Warren the definition of a wing who can score? That's what he does (when healthy, of course).
Its the end of the roster so who knows but I'd be shocked if the Cs went anywhere near Oubre. He tends to freelance a bit more than average on offense and his defense isn't really even passable.
Oubre feels like he has the size and skills to be a heavy rotational player but his actual body of work is why he is available for very little in late August.
If Boston signs him, any threads that involve him will be great fun. He is that kind of player imo.
Yeah, I'm not interested in him at all. The Celtics really aren't a great spot for him and I'd rather get a less volatile, lower upside option. I also don't think there's any chance he signs for what we can offer him anyways. TJ Warren seems like a much better fit.
Oubre is the 'best player' available generically, but I agree he isn't really that good a fit with Celtics--he wants more minutes, more of the ball, more opportunity generally than they have to offer. And he's not really a 'role player' in the roles they want - maybe as a 6th man scorer role he might sorta fit? But I don't think that's going to be how either side would see it.
Adding another vet alongside Brissett, and seeing how quickly Walsh develops, feels like the path here.
Adding another vet alongside Brissett, and seeing how quickly Walsh develops, feels like the path here.
It's kinda odd to me they seem to be scouring around for another wing.
They definitely need one more playoff rotation guy, but I think the spot of most need is as a ball handler.
Right now they only have White and Brogdon as guys who should play in a playoff game. I don't think Pritchard should be in a playoff rotation(definitely not with Hauser also being in). Tatum can handle the ball, but I'd want to conserve his energy by taking more of that off his plate. Jaylen should only handle the ball when necessary.
It's going to be hard to find a guy with their limited resources, but that's what I'd be turning over rocks looking for. They may have to way til buyout season.
Definitely not another score first guy like Oubre. They should have plenty of scoring as is. There is already going to be a few less shots to go around with KP added to the mix.
They definitely need one more playoff rotation guy, but I think the spot of most need is as a ball handler.
Right now they only have White and Brogdon as guys who should play in a playoff game. I don't think Pritchard should be in a playoff rotation(definitely not with Hauser also being in). Tatum can handle the ball, but I'd want to conserve his energy by taking more of that off his plate. Jaylen should only handle the ball when necessary.
It's going to be hard to find a guy with their limited resources, but that's what I'd be turning over rocks looking for. They may have to way til buyout season.
Definitely not another score first guy like Oubre. They should have plenty of scoring as is. There is already going to be a few less shots to go around with KP added to the mix.
Any chance they believe Banton is that additional ballhandler---or at least, he and PP give them two guys better than what's available?
That said, personally, I wouldn't mind a vet PG type hanging around roster. I suspect the reason they don't have one is they promised PP more run to get him to be quiet, and so that's the bet until February.
That said, personally, I wouldn't mind a vet PG type hanging around roster. I suspect the reason they don't have one is they promised PP more run to get him to be quiet, and so that's the bet until February.
I'm sure they think Banton can be an additional ballhandler in the regular season, and I agree with them.
I think they need a guy who's good enough to be in a playoff rotation. I don't think Pritchard or Banton are good enough for that. I suspect the Celtics don't either and will be looking to upgrade at some point. They don't need that upgrade now, since the regular season is near meaningless for them, but they'll need it before the playoffs.
I think the team is simply higher on Pritchard than most of us. If he plays like he did two years ago, It's not crazy to see him as a playoff rotation guy. I think Banton was more of a flier. He costs nothing and if you squint, you can see the potential (except he can't shoot). They could also just cut him.
As for the wing, could be that they want competition with Brissett for back-up minutes or that that a 3/4 type gives them more creative ways to plug holes and more defensive versatility in the regular season than a guard or a big.
I don't think it's crazy to see Pritchard as a playoff rotation guy either. I do think it's crazy to see Pritchard and Hauser as playoff rotation guys on the same team. They are pretty much one skill guys, and it's the same skill. Having both of them in a 9 man playoff rotation, along with Brogdon, leaves too many places to get attacked on defense. They'll also be harder to hide with the Celtics surely switching less on defense with their current roster. I think either guy could be in a 9 man playoff rotation, but they should also be exactly 9th.
Banton and Brissett are fine for what they are, depth pieces. Perfectly fine as guys to get you through the regular season, probably want them to be waving towels in May.
Their roster right now sets up like this
Bigs Porzingis, Willams, Horford, Kornet
Wing Tatum, Brown, Hauser, Brissett, Walsh
Guard White, Brogdon, Pritchard, Banton
For me, wing is the last spot I'd be looking at if the want to fill the 14th and/or 15th spot.
Just positionally, it should probably be a big since both of their two way guys are guards. But if they were looking to find a guy that could break into the playoff rotation, I'd be looking for a Pritchard replacement.
I’m confused by the idea of a 9-man playoff rotation. If healthy, you’re usually only seriously playing 8 guys. That’s the core seven guys plus one of Pritchard or Hauser (dependent on performance this year and matchups).
I think the likely last addition to the roster is ideally more about the “what if not healthy?” scenario. In that scenario, I think a wing is far more important. We don’t really have anyone who can step into a 30mpg role if Brown or Tatum is hurt (we’re not winning a title without Tatum but could win an early round series and I think could potentially survive a Brown injury if we have better depth). If White or Brogdon are hurt, it’s not ideal, but Pritchard can give the team 25-30 minutes of respectable pg play or they could expand wing minutes and reduce that to 15-20. If Brown is hurt, we’re looking at digging deep into the bench or playing a lot of 2 guard sets. Adding someone who can play 20-25 mpg at the 2-3 and at a near average level like Warren likely can do would be a huge addition to our depth. I do think a “guard” who has wing size would also work, but I think that’s really a wing under our roster construction where there is really only one “guard” position.
Ultimately, I care less about the position and more about the player having adequate size, probably 6’4” at the smallest, and a track record of being able to play meaningful NBA minutes adequately. There’s not a lot of options like that and we may not be able to land one, but that is the goal and position is secondary to those factors.
These things are a bit flexible. I'd say 7 is the minimum number of guys you can count on to get through a full playoff run, 8 is better (because even if everyone is healthy, foul trouble and matchup issues do happen), but 9 is an ideal number because injuries do happen, especially on a team in which 4 of your top 7 are major health risks. Even taking Brogdon (and Tatum in game 7) into account, I don't think we'll get better injury luck in 2024.
FWIW this past year we had an 8 man rotation, with Grant being the 8th man (18 mpg, but did get 5 DNPs) and no one else playing more than 7 mpg, but that was with the rotation missing exactly one total game due to injury. In 2022, 9 guys saw real minutes, with Pritchard and Theis (13 mpg each, with some DNPs mixed in) at the end, and no one else getting more than a handful of minutes. TL, Horford, White and Smart missed a lot of time (12 combined games), meaning we absolutely needed 9 guys we could trust in the playoffs. I think that happens again this year, meaning we will absolutely need at least 2 of Pritchard/Hauser/Brissett/Walsh/Banton to step up, or we need real production from someone acquired via trade or buyout later in the year.
Correct, and in real nut cutting time it's only 7.
That's why I think you could have Pritchard or Hauser be in your 9 man rotation, but not both.
If one of them is your 9th, when you cut it down as low as 8 they are out. If they're both in your 9, at least one has to play every night (except for when you really hit the whip for elimination games at get down to 7)
And that's in the best circumstances of your top 7 all being healthy together.