The Game Ball Thread: Wk 7 @ Steelers
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Jones was OK, Brown got dinged up, Bell was running into a stout box, you were missing several defensive contributors, false start penalties – aside from the Patriots not bringing their A game, the Steelers left a lot of points and possibilities out on the field. With Roethlisberger and some breaks, and it's not close the other way.
I would not be at all confident headed to PIT in the AFCG.
Does anyone think the defensive game plan for the Steelers was good?
We heard during the broadcast about how good of a game plan it was, and Robert Mays thinks it worked great till Gronk, Gronked.
The final two drives consisted of 5 runs into the line and that weird bomb.
Am I crazy to think that the only thing that stopped the Pats offense yesterday was the Pats, and relying on drops seems like a bad idea?
We heard during the broadcast about how good of a game plan it was, and Robert Mays thinks it worked great till Gronk, Gronked.
Were these people watching the same game I watched? Remove the fumble on the first play of the game and 4 of the next 7 drives resulted in TD's. Two of the drives that failed only stalled because open receivers dropped easy catches.
The final two drives consisted of 5 runs into the line and that weird bomb.
Am I crazy to think that the only thing that stopped the Pats offense yesterday was the Pats, and relying on drops seems like a bad idea?
Pats win by two scores on the road despite losing the turnover battle, dropping key passes, and shitty (and uncharacteristic) special teams play, I'm not worried about the Steelers.
And the 3rd non-scoring drive stalled due to 2 offensive holding calls (one declined). I agree that the Steelers defense did not do anything special.
Players drop passes sometimes, and it's going to happen more often when you're taking a lot of plays to drive the length of the field. The Pats O vs. the Steelers D was a huge mismatch going in so I thought they acquitted themselves well enough. Good coverage, decent pressure on Brady and great tackling on Edelman limiting YAC through 3 quarters. The Pats busted out because their offense is just the better unit, by far, but I thought Pitt did a nice job keeping themselves in the game through 3.
Now using that game to illustrate some potential fatal flaw for the Pats in January is pretty stupid.
Now using that game to illustrate some potential fatal flaw for the Pats in January is pretty stupid.
It was a weird game. I do think Pittsburgh made things a little more difficult than the numbers suggest. Brady had to pick up a few first downs with his legs and made another handful of plays on scramble drills, which you don't normally see. Pittsburgh did a better job in coverage than I would have expected heading into the game, but Brady made some nice out-of-structure plays and the Pats ran the ball much better than I would have expected.
The Pats had 10 real drives; four were 75+-yard TD drives and none of the others gained even 20 yards. It was a weird game.
Also what you normally don't see is a team just going almost no blitz the entire game as Pittsburgh did. Without reviewing it, I'd say there were maybe a handful of blitzes from them.
Those two holding calls happened because the offensive line got beat badly (which is the case most of the time with holding by offensive lineman). The alternative to the call isn't 'successful play' - it's 'sack'.
It was a weird game, and I think there's just as much chance that if you 'rerolled it' that the Patriots win by 30 as there is that it's any closer. The Pats seemed to keep shooting themselves in the foot.
That being said - despite the 1 sack, the offensive line scares the hell out of me. They got beat an awful lot yesterday. If we had a less skilled QB, that would have been a 6+ sack day IMO.
I've accepted that I'm a homer and am not capable of watching the games in a fair and balanced way... but part of the issue with the lack of defensive sacks for NE was that they were getting held all over the place yesterday. I also get the sense that the NE receivers were getting mugged constantly. The few times that the broadcast showed what was happening downfield, it was kind of amazing. Gronk gets held on every fucking play. I'm only accepting the results because we won.
Homer rant over.
Game balls: Blount, Brady, Gronk, Butler
Shame balls: Gostkowski, Bolden
Homer rant over.
Game balls: Blount, Brady, Gronk, Butler
Shame balls: Gostkowski, Bolden
Cannon who has become arguably their best OL (which is a remarkable statement) had another outstanding game. Butler, Gronk, and Brady, are the top 3, with Bolden leading horrible special teams (bad kick coverage, fumbled punt, missed downing and easy punt inside 5, missed XP, etc.)
The execution at many times yesterday was not good, but I do wonder if sometimes Belichick and the coaches alter the game plan for teams they may be facing down the road in the playoffs - not to the extent that they jeapordize the game, but I wonder if they keep things up their sleeves for teams they think they might be facing down the road.
Just a thought, what the hell do I know.
Just a thought, what the hell do I know.
Who were the jokers who just stood around while that punt sashayed into the end zone? Can they be fined?
Seconded. Things appeared to be very vanilla yesterday. The same thing I thought coming out of the Green Bay game in Green Bay a couple seasons ago (except they lost that one). I would almost guarantee they knew they could run the ball well against Pittsburgh and planned to just do that a lot. In between, Brady and the offense got hot at times, Gronk was Gronk and they just put in a workmanlike effort. I would bet on much higher levels of execution at Buffalo this week.
Bottom line, they played shit in special teams (first non awesome kickoff coverage game of the year, bad punting and Ghost). They lost the turnover battle. But Brady and Gronk and a bunch of other key plays happened our way and they won easily. We're spoiled.
I'm in the camp that the Steelers had a good defensive game plan. We usually talk about how the Patriots use the Steelers defensive aggressiveness against them, but Sunday they seemed to blitz less, play coverage more, take away the TE seam and mid/deep routes, and tackle JE after he caught the under routes which were often all that was available to Brady. Sure, the Patriots can still put together good drives tossing short passes to the slot receivers and backs, but they can absolutely crush you, too, if you allow them much else. The Patriots are a better and healthier team, but the Steelers executed a plan that gave them a chance.
One last thought: I thought it was wise that the Patriots didn't try to force their will on the Steelers D, and took what was there - the running game and underneath routes - until the TE routes did eventually open up. Being able to win in many different ways is the mark of successful teams like the Pats.
One last thought: I thought it was wise that the Patriots didn't try to force their will on the Steelers D, and took what was there - the running game and underneath routes - until the TE routes did eventually open up. Being able to win in many different ways is the mark of successful teams like the Pats.
Mentioned this on the game thread but part of me wonders whether the league has adjusted to the "kick it to the goal line and pin them deep" strategy. It worked extremely well the first few weeks but the Steelers weren't fooled by it at all, and I wonder whether we start seeing a lot more kicks out of the end zone again. I feel like it took the NFL about the same number of games to adjust to the Wildcat about 8 years ago.
What the hell do I know as well but fwiw I coach high school bball... and we withhold certain things within our conference the first time through. We also will put off certain adjustments until after halftime even if we have things figured out in the first half. Depends on the situation of course. If we're getting creamed in the first half, we'll make any and all adjustments asap. But, typically the goal is to get through halftime robbing the opposing coach the chance to address it at the break. We can also do the reverse and show something late in the second quarter or late in a game (especially in a blowout situation), though we have little intention to rely on whatever we're showing, in order to have the opponents spend time addressing it for either the second half or the second game. Now, I suspect this is largely a function of high school as this would be pretty ineffective against better and smarter players and coaches. Whether this happens in the NFL, IDK. But, I'd lean no unless BB feels he can dupe a particular coach.
EDIT: Football is a more complicated sport because of its innumerable variables and diversity of schemes and disguises so it may be very well that this sort of thing is done even at the professional level. So, there you go, I've taken both sides.
The Steelers are average at best talent-wise on the defensive side of the ball. Against a powerhouse offense like the Patriots, the "game plan" consists of denying the big play, forcing the offense to gain yardage in small chunks. If the other team executes flawlessly, that won't be good enough, but if you force them to make enough reps, they will usually make some mistakes (ideally turnovers, but at least penalties, drops, etc., that let you get off the field).
The Pats got, what, two plays of over 20 yards all day? I'd say that represents success.
Everyone was bitching about them getting off the field on 3rd down last week. The Steelers were 5 of 12 on 3rd down conversions. I think that is called some progress. I also don't think they have even tried to blitz opposing QBs in a few weeks and it's worked out to the tone of being 3rd in points allowed.
Pittsburgh also has the worst sack rate in the entire league and was missing one of their best DL in Cam Heyward. The OL did well run blocking, however.
League average is 37% conversion rate on 3rd down, so 5 / 12 (42%) is nothing to write home about, especially against a backup QB. It's not terrible either, but if you were especially worried about New England's D on third down, I don't think Sunday should move the needle for you. FWIW, I see their struggles there as symptomatic of other problems (like, no pass rush).
One was definitely Slater but he had smartly realized there was no need to touch the ball as it was going to bounce OOB inside the 10. He is seen pointing at the ball to another player as if to warn him not to go in that direction. Then Bolden comes bumbling into the picture doing his best Leon Lett impersonation. I'd say Slater made the right call as the only way that punt wasn't getting downed inside the 10 is if another player made contact with it.
Points allowed isn't a team defense stat, its a team stat.
Heading into this week the Pats were 15th in yards per drive allowed headed into this week and have been bad in the red zone, 27th or 28th depending on which stat you want to use. 20th in drive success rate. 20th in 3 and outs forced. 18th in plays per drive.
The stats where the team is performing very well are 1st in the league in starting field position allowed and 1st in the league in average lead at the start of a drive. Given the other components are relatively mediocre, those states seem to be driving a lot of the points allowed success, but I don't think it says that much about the defense.
Heading into this week the Pats were 15th in yards per drive allowed headed into this week and have been bad in the red zone, 27th or 28th depending on which stat you want to use. 20th in drive success rate. 20th in 3 and outs forced. 18th in plays per drive.
The stats where the team is performing very well are 1st in the league in starting field position allowed and 1st in the league in average lead at the start of a drive. Given the other components are relatively mediocre, those states seem to be driving a lot of the points allowed success, but I don't think it says that much about the defense.
I thought this was a good summary of what the Patriots' defense has been to this point. Not sexy, but doing what it takes given the strengths of the opponent to win the game that particular week.
http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2016/10/patriots_defense_week_7_steele.html#incart_river_home#incart_m-rpt-2
I agree, Pittsburgh defense made things tougher for Pats.
The bottom line is that this is a gre
The bottom line is that this is a gre
I don't disagree with your conclusion, though I do think there's a layer of the analysis related to game situation. For example, the Pats are happy to let a team down two TDs go on a long, multi-first down drive in the last 6 minutes of the game. Similarly, if they are up 3 TDs in second half they go into a semi-prevent by design. There's a bunch of game-plan and game-situation related factors in those stats, more for the Pats than most because 1) they have a great offense and are often up and 2) they tailor their decision making drive-by-drive more than most teams. To some degree, DVOA captures the above better than traditional stats and Pats are 21st there...illustrative of why I agree with your bottom line.
I thought Edelman had a GREAT game despite the drops/fumble.
He fought for the extra yards like he usually does, got crucial 3rd downs, and had perhaps one of the best blocking games I've ever seen from a WR.
He fought for the extra yards like he usually does, got crucial 3rd downs, and had perhaps one of the best blocking games I've ever seen from a WR.