The Goat Thread: Wk 1 vs The Chiefs

[SeoulSoxFan]

Welp.

Don't care about injuries, don't care about new players, don't care about them at all.

This was a grade-A ass-whooping after the Gronk drop in the end zone. So reminiscent of the Monday Night KC massacre, the NO blowout, and the Ravens PO loss.

So many goats to go around, from Brady locking on covered receivers, not converting 4th down plays (TWO!), dropping balls, punting potatoes, and of course...

...the big play defense that I thought was only bad pre-season jitters returned in the worst way. What's concerning is that the big plays were EXACTLY what they were preparing for. With New Orleans and Brees up next, we may be looking at a once unthinkable 0-2.

Three silver-linings:

1. It is game 1, long, long way to go, that's about a brutal of a wake-up call as you can have, and did I say it is only game 1?
2. The BB conference is going to be epic
3. The AFC East is so bad, NE still well on track to win it and at least be in the playoffs

P.S. Oh yeah, and the pre-game ceremonies sucked.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Patriots post-game fireworks:

http://www.patriots.com/

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Tom Brady.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Matt Patricia, Josh McDaniels and yes Bill B. The gameplan was wrong. Period.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Matt Patricia, Josh McDaniels and yes Bill B. The gameplan was wrong. Period.

What specifically was wrong with the offensive and defensive gameplans?

 

[Boston Brawler]

McDaniels and Patricia.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

Everyone but DMC.

 

[Foxy42]

Front 7 - comically bad
Brady - was off from his first throw
McDaniels - weak 4th down calls
Belli - team wasn't ready

 

[edmunddantes]

I have to go with the coaching, the players, and the lack of execution.

I mean 2 back to back running into the kickers? Tons of deep balls.

Lots of times defense could be seen still arguing over the defensive call right up to the ball snap.

Just horrible playing all around.

My one none goat. McCourty had several huge effort plays.

 

[H78]

Watching the post-game interviews and I hate to say it but Hunt, Smith, and Houston are all really likable, decent guys. Taking the win like pros and not jumping all over the fact that they beat the Pats in NE.

My goats?

1) The GOAT
2) The entire D not named McCourty or Hightower when he was in there
3) Gronk. Can't beat one on one coverage against Berry? What happens when teams start doubling him?
4) McDaniels. So many predictable runs against completely stacked boxes.
5) The fans. Let go of the Goodell thing. We won the SB. We won all of that. Today was so petty and exaggerative and the football Gods punished our gluttony.

 

[ehaz]

McDaniels and Brady get the goat for me. Also - I think we all expected the defense to take some time, but this was especially bad. I have faith the secondary will bounce back. Gilmore/Butler and especially McCourty made some nice plays but had lapses as a unit.

Silver linings:
- Gronk is healthy
- Gillislie looks good
- Cooks is going to be a star. If it weren't for those PI calls, he would've finished with ~130 yards on a day where Brady was clearly off.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

What specifally was wrong with the offensive and defensive gameplans?

Except for the stubborn 4th down plays, this game was more on players just flat out not executing. Gilmore on the long touchdown, for example. We used to on the other side of those.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Its McDaniels and Brady.

The defense was terrible, but I expected them to have a rough day, and when you lose the whole middle and the playcaller, I expect shitshow. I don't expect Brady to look so abjectly terrible, and I don't expect McDaniels (I don't know why I don't) to just go all whacky.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Silver lining

Here's another one -- no more of that ridiculous 16-0 talk.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Pretty awful all around.

I'm confident that BB will iron out the problems but damn we looked bad. Front seven was just terrible and the offense basically fell apart after Dola got hurt.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

What specifally was wrong with the offensive and defensive gameplans?

Josh was locked into throwing deep, which has been an issue in the past. The 4th down play calls were absolute garbage. Not enough touches for the ultra talented RBs. When Berry got hurt nothing was exploited. No change in the plan whatsoever.

Matt had no help over the top even though they were burned multiple times in the preseason by long plays. Without DH the scheme should have changed. It didn't. How about a corner blitz?

Multiple bad decisions on both sides of the ball. They seemed to be stuck with no adjustments. Very un-Patriots like.

 

[ehaz]

Here's another one -- no more of that ridiculous 16-0 talk.

Please let some reporter ask BB about no more 16-0. That reaction would be worth the loss.

 

[riboflav]

Josh was locked into throwing deep, which has been an issue in the past. The 4th down play calls were absolute garbage. Not enough touches for the ultra talented RBs. When Berry got hurt nothing was exploited. No change in the plan whatsoever.

Matt had no help over the top even though they were burned multiple times in the preseason by long plays. Without DH the scheme should have changed. It didn't. How about a corner blitz?

Multiple bad decisions on both sides of the ball. They seemed to be stuck with no adjustments. Very un-Patriots like.

That's not how offense in the NFL works. Josh doesn't tell TB to throw it deep on this one.

EDIT: At least I hope not.

 

[Blue Monkey]

How many 80 yard drives did they give up tonight? 4?? That's probably how many they allowed all of last season. Pats don't match up well with KC for whatever reason. Offense will be ok. Defense... WTF? The Chiefs went 90 yards on two running plays when the Pats had to know they were going to run. I don't even know how that's possible.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

On the Chiefs' side of the field they had a series that started 1st and 5 and didn't convert. Later they had a 2nd and 2 and didn't convert. Both times got too cute instead of just getting the first down, left it for the ill-fated 4th and inches plays. Those plays are whatever—poor execution and well defended—but it never should have come down to it on those two drives at least.

 

[ehaz]

Especially after the second half, it felt like another preseason game. Like Patricia/McDaniels were still trying to figure out what they had.

 

[Bongorific]

Why not have Lewis return kicks and punts? They need to keep Danny healthy and they have 4 RBs that are all capable of being the lead back. With Mitchell and JE11 out, they need to do what they can to keep Danny on the field.

 

[Super Nomario]

NE defense hasn't allowed 42 points in a game since 1993. And they did it without the benefit of turnovers. Just a trash performance.

 

[ehaz]

How many 80 yard drives did they give up tonight? 4?? That's probably how many they allowed all of last season. Pats don't match up well with KC for whatever reason. Offense will be ok. Defense... WTF? The Chiefs went 90 yards on two running plays when the Pats had to know they were going to run. I don't even know how that's possible.

Yes, but Amendola is potentially a huge loss factoring in no Edelman/Mitchell.

 

[H78]

Something I'll be watching out for:

I remember a while back, I don't know which channel it was, but someone on NFLN or ESPN or something was talking about playing catch with Troy Aikman several years after he retired, and how despite being older he was still totally capable of hitting "all of the throws."

The person mentioned that they were in awe of how accurate he still was merely throwing a football around, and how he still had a powerful arm, could still hit crazy targets, etc.

When asked why he wouldn't play anymore (outside of concussion issues, of course), apparently Aikman said something along the lines of "I don't want to get hit anymore."

I'm not counting TB12 out. That's a fool's errand. I'd be less surprised to see him win the next three Lombardis than I would be to learn that father time has finally caught up with him. He's just too devoted to his health and to the game in general. My bet, absolutely, is that he bounces back.

But I couldn't help but wonder if he's reaching that "I don't want to get hit anymore" stage of his career. And "getting hit," unfortunately, is required to be a consistent NFL quarterback, particularly one that's without the "quick release" security blanket that is Julian Edelman. Holding onto the ball longer means getting hit more often. Is that something he's actually willing to handle? I ask because there were a few plays that stood out to me as TB12 seemingly wanting to avoid being hit as opposed to standing in there for the sake of, say, trying to move the chains or get the ball into the end zone. It made me wonder if he's thinking more about avoiding physical contact than he used to.

He just seemed skittish. Which happens, of course, to all QBs. But what worried me tonight is that the line was actually doing a pretty phenomenal job most of the night, and he still seemed skittish...

Maybe he can still make the throws. But is he reaching a point in his life where priority #1 is avoiding the hit?

Edit: Clarity. And shit, the more I re-read it the more I realized I'm too tired to clearly share this thought tonight, ha

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Brady: "we have to do a lot better... STARTING WITH OUR ATTITUDE"

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

That's not how offense in the NFL works. Josh doesn't tell TB to throw it deep on this one.

EDIT: At least I hope not.

They should have gone underneath often. Dink and dunk surgically is how Tom does his best work.

 

[jmm57]

Comcast has a stat:
2013-2016 90yd td drives at home: 0
Tonight: 3

 

[Sportsbstn]

The Patriots never employed their running backs tonight in the passing game and thats just really poor game planning by Bill and Josh. In the end though, the secondary was atrocious and it cost them the game.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Brady: "we have to do a lot better... STARTING WITH OUR ATTITUDE"

You have to think Edelman was missed in that locker room.

 

[McBride11]

Here's another one -- no more of that ridiculous 16-0 talk.

18-1 baby!

The whole team looked sloppy, DMC excepted.
The O line was good until the 4th then started breaking, but the KC dline is kinda good also.
Either the LBs were slow or there was some weird safety coverage all nite. Or both. The underneath and the seams / posts middle of the field appeared open. Plus Gilmore's brain fart.

Did David Harris or Elandon Roberts play? All I heard was Van noy or Marsh and DH before he exited.
How long is McClellin out for? I think the LBs were the really weakest cog.

Also, are the Pats gonna send some of this tape of Gronk's mugging anywhere? Will it do anything?

 

[Ale Xander]

McDaniels in not taking advantage of the pass-catching backs, Cooks, and Hogan
Patricia in depending so much on Richards and Cassius, especially with Richards out of position
Brady
most of the LB play
Chung
Richards

 

[Bongorific]

Something I'll be watching out for:

I remember a while back, I don't know which channel it was, but someone on NFLN or ESPN or something was talking about playing catch, with Troy Aikman, several years after he retired, and how despite being older he was still hitting "all of the throws."

The person mentioned that they were in awe of how accurate he still is merely throwing a football around, and how he still has a powerful arm, can still hit crazy targets, etc.

When asked why he wouldn't play anyone (outside of concussion issues, of course), apparently Aikman said something along the lines of "I didn't want to get hit anymore."

I'm not counting TB12 out. That's a fool's errand. I'd be less surprised to see him win the next three Lombardis than I would to realize father time has finally caught up with him. He's just too devoted to his health and to the game in general. My bet, absolutely, is that he bounces back.

But I couldn't help but wonder if he's reaching that "I don't want to get hit anymore" part of his life that's required of a consistent NFL quarterback, particularly one that's without that "quick release" security blanket that is Julian Edelman. Holding onto the ball longer means getting hit more often. Is that something he's actually willing to handle? I ask because there were a few plays that stood out to me more as wanting to avoid any hit whatsoever than trying to stand in there for the sake of, say, trying to move the chains or get the ball into the end zone.

He just seemed skittish. Which happens, of course, to all QBs. But what worried me tonight is that the line was actually doing a pretty phenomenal job most of the night, and he still seemed skittish...

Maybe he can still make the throws. But is he now starting to think more about the hits?

I don't know. There have been a lot of games where Tom goes through stretches where he's seeing ghosts. He stood in the pocket a lot tonight and took some hits. He's smart though and learned about 9 years ago to not take unnecessary hits.

 

[H78]

I don't know. There have been a lot of games where Tom goes through stretches where he's seeing ghosts. He stood in the pocket a lot tonight and took some hits. He's smart though and learned about 9 years ago to not take unnecessary hits.

I hear you, but the first half of the game he was barely touched, which made me wonder where those ghosts were coming from, you know?

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

The Patriots never employed their running backs tonight in the passing game and thats just really poor game planning by Bill and Josh. In the end though, the secondary was atrocious and it cost them the game.

Whats weird is that for much of the second half, the RBs were getting open underneath, and Brady was just waiting and waiting and then trying to whip the ball downfield. At one point on 2nd and 10 sometime in the 4th he ignored an open James White about 9 yards downfield with nobody near him to throw deep to a double covered WR who wasn't even close to open.

 

[heavyde050]

I know Brady didn't play as well as anyone expected but when the defense makes Alex Smith look like Rodgers, I don't know anyone can not put more blame on the defense. 42 points to the Chiefs!

 

[reggiecleveland]

Not saying one game like this is the end of TB, but this is how it will end, when it finally does. He is too stubborn to go out like Papi, with a final great year. If he does not play well next game I will honestly worry, because nothing makes him play like something to prove. Maybe he needed this in a weird way.

Did people really believe TB12 was going to be great for 3 more years? I hoped he would be minor regression from last year win a SB and retire. A possible silver lining is maybe if they can somehow do it again, and I would say somehow if they won big tonight, since it is always hard.

 

[heavyde050]

Not saying one game like this is the end of TB, but this is how it will end, when it finally does. He is too stubborn to go out like Papi, with a final great year. If he does not play well next game I will honestly worry, because nothing makes him play like something to prove. Maybe he needed this in a weird way.

Did people really believe TB12 was going to be great for 3 more years? I hoped he would be minor regression from last year win a SB and retire. A possible silver lining is maybe if they can somehow do it again, and I would say somehow if they won big tonight, since it is always hard.

It has been one game. His last game he led a comeback for the ages.
What happens when Jimmy G isn't as great as everyone thinks he is?
The Pats will be fine. BB will get them ready and they will be there in the end competing for a title.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Jesus, I figured at least here we could avoid the 'TB is done' #hottakez.

It was one game, missing some key parts on both sides of the ball and coming off a preseason where anyone important barely played. And had a couple injuries happen on top. Even Collinsworth made the observation that they were working (especially on defense) with a lot of new guys.

They don't give a shit about 19-0. They look at the first few weeks as preseason.

Yes, Brady didn't look good. But let's pump the brakes, maybe? It's not like he's never had bad games.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Its been one game, that was probably the worst game in memory. He wasn't just bad, he was abysmal, and he was inaccurate the whole game, and faced virtually no pressure for 3 quarters. He was locking on to guys, looked shaken and skittish, and basically looked like the game was moving too fast.

When older QBs fail, it happens very quickly. Manning went from being an MVP candidate to being below replacement in about 5 weeks. Favre was the same. I'm hoping he's not done, but"its just one game" isn't particularly comforting, when that game was this bad, and these things snowball.

Also, nobody has said the D wasn't terrible.

 

[heavyde050]

Jesus, I figured at least here we could avoid the 'TB is done' #hottakez.

It was one game, missing some key parts on both sides of the ball and coming off a preseason where anyone important barely played. And had a couple injuries happen on top. Even Collinsworth made the observation that they were working (especially on defense) with a lot of new guys.

They don't give a shit about 19-0. They look at the first few weeks as preseason.

Yes, Brady didn't look good. But let's pump the brakes, maybe? It's not like he's never had bad games.

Thanks for posting this. How quick the tide seems to be ready to hand it all over to Jimmy G.
Can he play defense too?

 

[heavyde050]

Its been one game, that was probably the worst game in memory. He wasn't just bad, he was abysmal, and he was inaccurate the whole game, and faced virtually no pressure for 3 quarters. He was locking on to guys, looked shaken and skittish, and basically looked like the game was moving too fast.

When older QBs fail, it happens very quickly. Manning went from being an MVP candidate to being below replacement in about 5 weeks. Favre was the same. I'm hoping he's not done, but"its just one game" isn't particularly comforting, when that game was this bad, and these things snowball.

Also, nobody has said the D wasn't terrible.

If Brady is still playing like this after 4 weeks, it will be more of an issue.
No one said Manning was done after his first bad game. It doesn't happen that quickly.

 

[Stitch01]

I don't know. There have been a lot of games where Tom goes through stretches where he's seeing ghosts. He stood in the pocket a lot tonight and took some hits. He's smart though and learned about 9 years ago to not take unnecessary hits.

Yeah I agree with this he's had games where he looked like a glitchy madden QB seeing ghosts. He didn't look like that today.

I don't have Brady as a goat. He was off but not one of the worst players in the field.

Reid over BB coaching edge call confirmed genius.

 

[H78]

It has been one game. His last game he led a comeback for the ages.
What happens when Jimmy G isn't as great as everyone thinks he is?
The Pats will be fine. BB will get them ready and they will be there in the end competing for a title.

Oh, I don't think there's any question that Jimmy isn't as great as people think he is.

Here's the most likely scenario (IMO) for when the end really does come for Brady: he'll retire or get traded, Jimmy will come in, prove to be a slightly above average, maybe even "good" (but nowhere near "great") quarterback, and the team will go back to trying to win a title with defense again while asking Jimmy to manage the game well, go for a big play or two, and avoid turnovers.

My hope with Jimmy, whenever the day comes, is that he amounts to 75% of the talent of TB12. If he can be that, we'll remain competitive for as long as Bill continues to coach.

 

[timelysarcasm]

Linebackers were bad and slow, outside of Hightower.
Not taking advantage of pass catching abilities of running backs was dumb.
Brady was pretty bad. Gronk didn't look "lean and mean."

Not saying one game like this is the end of TB, but this is how it will end, when it finally does. He is too stubborn to go out like Papi, with a final great year. If he does not play well next game I will honestly worry, because nothing makes him play like something to prove. Maybe he needed this in a weird way.

Did people really believe TB12 was going to be great for 3 more years? I hoped he would be minor regression from last year win a SB and retire. A possible silver lining is maybe if they can somehow do it again, and I would say somehow if they won big tonight, since it is always hard.

No, I haven't heard anyone say they expected this without a doubt. I don't think anyone had any certainty either way? It's always been a wait and see, hoping he can keep defying the odds but knowing it'll end sometime. For the record, I'm done overreacting to one bad game for Brady. If it develops into a pattern, then we'll have something to discuss. O-line was good until the end of the 4th, so I'm hopeful the issues can be worked out.

 

[Tony C]

Why not have Lewis return kicks and punts? They need to keep Danny healthy and they have 4 RBs that are all capable of being the lead back. With Mitchell and JE11 out, they need to do what they can to keep Danny on the field.

The wailing about OCs and DCs is just the typical stuff heard in every NFL city after every loss, but I do agree with this specific criticism - given the depth at RB and lack thereof at WR along with DA's fragility, from the start that call made no sense to me.

 

[twibnotes]

Its been one game, that was probably the worst game in memory. He wasn't just bad, he was abysmal, and he was inaccurate the whole game, and faced virtually no pressure for 3 quarters. He was locking on to guys, looked shaken and skittish, and basically looked like the game was moving too fast.

When older QBs fail, it happens very quickly. Manning went from being an MVP candidate to being below replacement in about 5 weeks. Favre was the same. I'm hoping he's not done, but"its just one game" isn't particularly comforting, when that game was this bad, and these things snowball.

Also, nobody has said the D wasn't terrible.

Cmonnnnnn. The guy was practically the MVP a few
months ago. Brady will decline, but he's not going to suddenly be Mark Sanchez

 

[BigSoxFan]

Pats committed 0 turnovers. Chiefs had 139 penalty yards and a costly turnover. And we lost by 15. I mean, holy shit. Random comments:

1) I was extremely disappointed that Brady and Hogan couldn't connect. Returning player so I'm not sure why they were off. Hogan and Cooks are certainly big play guys but one of those WRs is going to have to morph into a move the chains guy now that Edelman, Mitchell, and Amendola are all hurt. We know Dorsett isn't going to help much in that regard. I see this as a real issue going forward and one that won't be easily fixed.

2) Weird to see such a quiet game from Gronk. Berry is a hell of a player but he ain't prime Ed Reed. Part of that was that he was surely getting held like it was a Heat/Knicks game from the 90s. But he's going to have to get going. Gronk is going to be needed to get key 3rd downs that Edelman always got us

3) Would like to see more Burkhead and Lewis. Gillislee got the glory with the short TDs but that 3.0 ypc ain't going to get it done. Not crazy about White getting so many carries.

4) Defense was so incredibly bad that it's really hard to judge without overreacting. McCourty and Flowers are clearly the top playmakers. Hightower's absense really hurt so that's a huge problem if he's out. Malcolm and Gilmore were not nearly as good as I expected. They need to be much, much better. The front 7 just looks so anemic. They'll get better but not sure they have the horses to be an elite unit.

 

[H78]

Jesus, I figured at least here we could avoid the 'TB is done' #hottakez.

It was one game, missing some key parts on both sides of the ball and coming off a preseason where anyone important barely played. And had a couple injuries happen on top. Even Collinsworth made the observation that they were working (especially on defense) with a lot of new guys.

They don't give a shit about 19-0. They look at the first few weeks as preseason.

Yes, Brady didn't look good. But let's pump the brakes, maybe? It's not like he's never had bad games.

Who's saying that?

No one. It's your own hyperbole.

 

[Captaincoop]

He's 40 years old. It's not a "hot take" to speculate that he might be done.