Well, if Mac could understand it...The offense under Josh was overly complicated for QB (unless Brady was under center)
Well, if Mac could understand it...The offense under Josh was overly complicated for QB (unless Brady was under center)
Matt Cassel and Jimmy G had no real issues with learning McD's offense; Jacoby Brissett did OK in his one game with a working hand.The offense under Josh was overly complicated for QB (unless Brady was under center) and WR. I think it would be crazy to bring back Josh, plus he's almost certainly tied to BB wherever he ends up. I'd rather keep BOB, at least he has run an offense around a mobile-ish QB in Watson. But my top choice is fresh young offensive mind/new system.
My concern with Josh is that he did his best work while working under BB where there was no ambiguity about who was in charge of everything related to Patriot football.Looks like Josh is a really bad NFL Head Coach, but a really good NFL OC. Nothing wrong with that. Find your sweet spot, Josh.
What kind? Racist? Homophobic? Toxically masculine?Bring in someone that can develop a young QB and establish an offensive culture. That is all.
Josh also did his best work when Tom Brady was the QB.My concern with Josh is that he did his best work while working under BB where there was no ambiguity about who was in charge of everything related to Patriot football.
Both times Josh strayed away and tried to be "the guy" he has failed miserably. The Raider's players hated him and got him fired after a team meeting with ownership.
There was a report he confronted some folks--loudly--about the OL available to him.Summary of what Klemm was reported to have done?
Josh McDaniels' long term success in football seems likely to be as the next generation's Norv Turner. I can't imagine anyone is going to give him another HC opportunity for a LONG time, if ever. And that would also require many successful offensive years between now and his next chance.
I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back, possibly with the direction to maybe modernize his scheme, but I'm not savvy enough about the actual details to say if that's a credible solution or not. A bright side about bringing him back would be that he is likely to stay for at least a few years since he is borderline radioactive as a potential HC hire, and that would be great continuity for a young QB.
yes start fresh with new blood or talk to vrableMy concern with Josh is that he did his best work while working under BB where there was no ambiguity about who was in charge of everything related to Patriot football.
Both times Josh strayed away and tried to be "the guy" he has failed miserably. The Raider's players hated him and got him fired after a team meeting with ownership.
I think his interpersonal skills are poor and without BB to provide cover for him I'm not sure how he would respond to taking orders from a rookie HC.
The new OC should be a guy who will completely buy into Mayo's system and work collaboratively with him and not try to be an alternative voice in the locker room.
Josh would do well following BB to his next team, but I don't want him back with the Patriots.
adrian was a great college coach here at the univ of oregon....he probably thought moving to the nfl was a steppingstone to a great career.evidently he had no clue what a clusterf**k this organization has turned into.i dont blame him if he was give up his dream and stay in college and work toward a head coaching job there.im pretty sure mac jones isnt the only one dissillusioned with the way this organization has panned outDisappointed with the Adrian Klemm outcome. Had high hopes he'd be a good coach for this team. His performance and conduct makes me think the team is better off without him. And if I recall he was also in the OC discussion. Maybe not seriously, but was bandied about.
To be frank, I wonder if he'll have a future coaching in the NFL. Word gets around, and the way this went makes me think it was more to it than what is being reported. And would be a bigger story in a 'normal' year. GMs and coaches probably aren't keen with that kind of insubordination. Even worse given this reputation follows him from job to job. He's going to have to adjust if he wants to do that. If it was medical/family stress that pushed him to be so confrontational then a different story.
Either way, wish him well.
Their methodology is beyond flawed...it's pure nonsense. You can safely ignore that article.Yeah, either their methodology is flawed or there's a whole bunch of teams who are worse than the Pats. Or both.
Hopefully the new guy doesn't have to rely on what lately had "passed" for an O-line in New England. Frankly if I were a ln OC candidate, the second question I'd be asking is whether the team is going to take a pass at drafting offensive tackles altogether like they did last year (and not signing any good ones either). It would be malpractice to threat the position again as poorly as they have.This is an excellent point. With rare exceptions, Rookie QBs take a while to develop. It's bad enough the new guy will have to rely upon what passes for an O-line in New England, but having to learn a new scheme every year or two simply adds needless degree of difficulty. Add a certain level of familiarity and trust between Josh & Mayo, and yes, that could work.
Is that supposed to be a mark in the con column or the pro column?There was a report he confronted some folks--loudly--about the OL available to him.
Who has done the best (public) analytic work on rating drafts?They're counting the 2018 Super Bowl win as evidence of draft success.
Let's just say that SI ain't what it used to be.
main thing I remember from those games is that he had bunch of extra sets and plays for more mobile QBs, so that is evidence of adaptability to a different QB skill set.Matt Cassel and Jimmy G had no real issues with learning McD's offense; Jacoby Brissett did OK in his one game with a working hand.
I'm friendly with two former offensive players that raved about Josh on a personal level when they were on the Pats. (anecdote, of course)My concern with Josh is that he did his best work while working under BB where there was no ambiguity about who was in charge of everything related to Patriot football.
Both times Josh strayed away and tried to be "the guy" he has failed miserably. The Raider's players hated him and got him fired after a team meeting with ownership.
I think his interpersonal skills are poor and without BB to provide cover for him I'm not sure how he would respond to taking orders from a rookie HC.
The new OC should be a guy who will completely buy into Mayo's system and work collaboratively with him and not try to be an alternative voice in the locker room.
Josh would do well following BB to his next team, but I don't want him back with the Patriots.
I know the bolded has been noted before. However, if that were the case, we would see some of those WR's that struggled here have success elsewhere, and that has never really been the case. The receivers that were bad here were either bad elsewhere (Harry), injured, or washed (Galloway, #85).main thing I remember from those games is that he had bunch of extra sets and plays for more mobile QBs, so that is evidence of adaptability to a different QB skill set.
always seemed like the WRs had the most difficulty remembering the decision trees in the McDaniels offense.
If true it's really bizarre he's failed so badly on this when he's been HC. I guess everyone gets promoted to the level of their incompetence, but he's been soooo bad it's shocking. I'm less surprised by Patricia and Judge, for instance, who have always come across as assholes.I'm friendly with two former offensive players that raved about Josh on a personal level when they were on the Pats. (anecdote, of course)
It might be anecdotal but when it comes from the inside it carries some weight. I still think he will follow BB, but I'll just chaulk it up to the Peter principle and not be as concerned if he eventually returns to the Patriots as the OC.I'm friendly with two former offensive players that raved about Josh on a personal level when they were on the Pats. (anecdote, of course)
re: the bolded, what has occurred to make you think any of those things?I can understand the rationale for bringing Josh in as OC due to the familiarity but I'm concerned that familiarity breeds contempt and don't trust Josh not to throw Mayo under the bus should things go off the rails which there is a high probability with all the changes that are sure to take place. Josh is obviously very well known to the Krafts and I'd be surprised if there wasn't eventually a power struggle should Josh come back as OC. He seems to crave power outside of when Bill was over him and at one point he was the heir apparent in NE and may still see himself that way.
I'd take a shot with an up and coming passing game coordinator and let him build his own staff. If he leaves in 2yrs it means he did an incredible job turning around this offense and developing a rookie QB and I can live with that as that likely means the team is competitive.
Eddie Royal lives in my neighborhood. He despises McD from his time in Denver. First time I met him, soon as he heard I was originally from Mass he took the opportunity to tell a complete stranger how much he hates Josh.I'm friendly with two former offensive players that raved about Josh on a personal level when they were on the Pats. (anecdote, of course)
After voting young OC, I'm surprised nobody took HurstSoGood up on this inquiry. I think he did an excellent job in SEA, where the wideouts were great and everything else was suspect. His work with Geno Smith was truly impressive. And he's got New England roots - he has 2 SB rings from the '03 and '04 seasons when he was...an intern. He topped out as TE coach in 2009 here, and has slowly advanced alongside some solid offenses. I'd love to see him back home.What does SoSH think of Shane Waldren? Would he be a good fit coming back to New England in the OC role, especially with things a bit crazy in SEA?
Eddie Royal had his career year as a rookie in 2008, catching 91 passes for 980 yards.Eddie Royal lives in my neighborhood. He despises McD from his time in Denver. First time I met him, soon as he heard I was originally from Mass he took the opportunity to tell a complete stranger how much he hates Josh.
Just concerns that he wanted to be NE HC badly enough to rescind the IND job. As someone with a lot more experience than Mayo I could see him trying to position himself for the HC job again. I doubt his dreams of being a successful HC are over at this point.re: the bolded, what has occurred to make you think any of those things?
The Athletic has this to say about Waldron (not that much more, but he's on the radar):After voting young OC, I'm surprised nobody took HurstSoGood up on this inquiry. I think he did an excellent job in SEA, where the wideouts were great and everything else was suspect. His work with Geno Smith was truly impressive. And he's got New England roots - he has 2 SB rings from the '03 and '04 seasons when he was...an intern. He topped out as TE coach in 2009 here, and has slowly advanced alongside some solid offenses. I'd love to see him back home.
I really would not be upset about this. In addition to the point about outside voices, I really don't think Mayo needs guys on his staff with big egos who have been (and probably still think they should be) head coaches. I actually put Josh in a different category. He's so burnt he has to rebuild things. He has an incentive to be a good staffer for a few years. But I would rather see Waldron, Robinson, or one of the position coaches on a successful offensive staff get a chance. (Is Jerrod Johnson, QB coach in Houston, on anyone's radar?)So word on the college football street is that Bill O'Brien is headed to Ohio State as their OC.
If true, significantly increases chances of a totally new to NEP OC (could still be Josh McDaniels obviously)
When the head coach is first time, there could be value in having a coordinator with lots of experience coordinating.I really would not be upset about this. In addition to the point about outside voices, I really don't think Mayo needs guys on his staff with big egos who have been (and probably still think they should be) head coaches. I actually put Josh in a different category. He's so burnt he has to rebuild things. He has an incentive to be a good staffer for a few years. But I would rather see Waldron, Robinson, or one of the position coaches on a successful offensive staff get a chance. (Is Jerrod Johnson, QB coach in Houston, on anyone's radar?)
I think Troy Brown is more likely to be unemployed than OC, if he hadn't played here not sure he survived the last couple years.Troy Brown or Wes Welker possibilities?
(Want someone more experienced but just throwing it out there)
There’s nobody to coach yetI think Troy Brown is more likely to be unemployed than OC, if he hadn't played here not sure he survived the last couple years.
Welker... I guess, but have to think they'd want a guy with not only more experience, but particularly QB coach experience.
Tyreek Hill endorses Wes Welker (and im not saying that sarcastically)I think Troy Brown is more likely to be unemployed than OC, if he hadn't played here not sure he survived the last couple years.
Welker... I guess, but have to think they'd want a guy with not only more experience, but particularly QB coach experience.
The first guy I always think about in this context is Troy Aikman. The fact that he can still be a solid color commentator after the beating his brain took is remarkable.Just happy to hear that Wes isn't suffering the after effects of way too many concussions. That guy got blown up a few too many times.
Aikman has talked about that quite a bit, including how the commentating forces him to stay sharp. Coaching drudgery probably not quite the same, but demanding nonetheless.The first guy I always think about in this context is Troy Aikman. The fact that he can still be a solid color commentator after the beating his brain took is remarkable.
The first guy I always think about in this context is Troy Aikman. The fact that he can still be a solid color commentator after the beating his brain took is remarkable.
Didn't Aikman reveal that he went through some really difficult times after retiring from the NFL due to the multiple concussions he endured?Aikman has talked about that quite a bit, including how the commentating forces him to stay sharp. Coaching drudgery probably not quite the same, but demanding nonetheless.
I believe so. His agent, Leigh Steinberg, also tells a horrifying story about visiting Troy in the hospital after one of his concussions and Troy asking him the same question over and over.Didn't Aikman reveal that he went through some really difficult times after retiring from the NFL due to the multiple concussions he endured?
Not sure Brown is on the list. His WR work has apparently been underwhelming. Wonder if he could pop over to ST.Troy Brown or Wes Welker possibilities?