This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots
- Thread starter DennyDoyle'sBoil
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The other thing about possible extension that we don’t know is what expectations BB set with Kraft—if he said (illustratively) before last season “this is a 3-4 year rebuild” and clearly laid out why and the path, it’s not inconceivable they are directionally going as expected.
Now, whether we believe either that kind of timeframe or that they have any real plan/direction is of course subject to debate…
Now, whether we believe either that kind of timeframe or that they have any real plan/direction is of course subject to debate…
Will this really matter if they are 3-14 and the stadium is half empty in December? The point differential is second worse in the league. If this team was a dog the humane thing would be to put it down.
By early reports, it may be half empty today. On a 55 degree sunny October day.
It'll still be full as usual.
Difference will be that it'll be a lot of Bills fans. They always travel well to Foxboro, but this game specifically, I had a ton of Bills fans reach out to me for my tickets (I actually donate a pair of my tix to a fundraiser every year, and every year, the same couple buys them and they're Bills fans, so I save them this game.
Again, *you* may be done with BB and ready to move on but the only people whose opinions really matter are the Krafts.
Edit: not @ anyone in particular
Edit: not @ anyone in particular
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Not sure that is the case. Coaches are not subject to the CBA. Nor do their salaries count towards the cap. So their contracts are strictly team matters.
I would think that a Bills "home game" in Foxborough will be even more embarrassing to Kraft than a half empty stadium.
Even before this report I really doubted that Bill would get fired. This is the first legitimately bad year they've had in more than two decades, sure that Might be get you fired, but Kraft has never struck me as a knee jerk quick trigger guy. He's been around long enough to see the turnover otherwise places and how infrequent it is to hit on a coach and GM. I always assume he's going to give Bill at least 2 or 3 bad years before he moves on
They went 8-9 with a positive differential and one of of the best defenses in the league, that's not a bad year. If the standards are playoffs minimum then Kraft should sell the team because the odds of finding a GM/Coach who can make that happen every year are low
Speaking of the current state of the Pats, the Bills are favored by more than 7 points in NE for the first time since 1993.
The reason he’d get fired is the slow but steady deterioration of the offense that’s led them to this point. It’s the lack of trust that may exist in handing the keys to a top 5 pick and $90 million in cap space to rebuild said offense when his decisions put them in this position to begin with.
Dallas, Phi, SF, Buff, Miami, Chiefs, Lions all being good/decent feels the a 30 year nostalgia time machine trip
I guess I was thinking the completely dysfunctional offense and the need to move on from a new OC after a single season.
That's the problem in a nutshell. As much as many would like to keep Belichick the coach, most of us would rather he not be in charge of rebuilding the team ... particularly on offense.
The contract extension is just money. If this season continues to be a disaster, Kraft will have to make the hardest decision. he's been faced with since he became owner.
So what happened today?
The OL was revamped and seemed, for the first time all year, basically intact, with Onwenu at RT where he belongs. They played well against a very good defense. Receivers made plays - both making good catches and getting lots of yards after the catch. Yes there was the Bourne fumble but otherwise they played very well.
When those two pieces did their jobs, it's amazing how much better Mac looked. Yes he made a few bad plays but ONLY a few (and every QB makes some of those every game). They seemed to make the right adjustments and good play calls. The talent sure looked to be the equal of Buffalo across the board (heck even the rookie special teasers did great today).
The OL was revamped and seemed, for the first time all year, basically intact, with Onwenu at RT where he belongs. They played well against a very good defense. Receivers made plays - both making good catches and getting lots of yards after the catch. Yes there was the Bourne fumble but otherwise they played very well.
When those two pieces did their jobs, it's amazing how much better Mac looked. Yes he made a few bad plays but ONLY a few (and every QB makes some of those every game). They seemed to make the right adjustments and good play calls. The talent sure looked to be the equal of Buffalo across the board (heck even the rookie special teasers did great today).
I'm not sure it moves the needle much either way--as others have pointed elsewhere, he didn't pay as dearly for his mistakes as he has the past few weeks, but they were still there.
However, as a consistent Mac doubter, I thought he showed more of the Tannehill potential everyone's been waiting to see. Given the right circumstances--and critically, the right play book and game plan--he looks like he's fundamentally capable of getting you across the line. Didn't hurt that the Buffalo D is down some guys, but whatever.
It doesn't really change my overall opinion of him, although it does make me think about whether they reach for a QB next spring, or focus on the offensive pieces that Mac--or his (probable) successor--will need to succeed.
Every QB makes mistakes every single game. The only completely mistake free game I can ever remember was Brady's ridiculous 26-28 game against Jacksonville in the playoffs. It's crazy to hold a couple of mistakes against him *as if mistakes aren't part of every single QB's weekly performance*. Yes, still mistakes, but those happen every single game.
I mean today, Allen (one of the unquestioned best QBs on planet earth) threw a terrible pick, and maybe should have had another pick when he lobbed the ball into the end zone and Dugger couldn't quite get to it. Sometimes those mistakes turn into turnovers and sometimes they don't.
Obvious mistakes happen to every QB. It’s the non-obvious ones that kill Mac much of the time. Like not checking out of that play where the safety was coming uncontested on a blitz. Or not seeing Pop quickly enough on the first down play on our last scoring series.
That’s the stuff that kills him more than just the INTs or fumbles.
He limited those today, but they were there. Gotta keep limiting them.
That’s the stuff that kills him more than just the INTs or fumbles.
He limited those today, but they were there. Gotta keep limiting them.
This is a good post. I mean looking at both QBs today it is easy to see the physical differences and arm talent difference between Allen and Mac. But, as noted above, I think Mac had much better decision making today (of the two QBs) and his team won. I mean if the Pats tackled a bit better (in the secondary), the game probably isn't as close. I mean Josh Allen is still way better than Mac Jones and much more talented. Today's version of Mac Jones is what the Pats need going forward if they want to win.
Yes, but being an NFL QB is balancing mistakes with plus plays and doing it consistently. Mac did pretty well today, I don't think it should change how anyone feels about him long term. He's not as bad as the worst games he's had, and his best games are ones like this... competence. He's low floor, low ceiling, how comfortable you are with that determines what you think his role here is long-term.
Nice to see BB get #300
I was looking at the list just now and was surprised to see that all of Bill’s peers on the list had at least one tie. the next closest without a tie is Coughlin way down at 170 wins.
now it should be noted that overtime started in 1974 so before that there were many more ties, but still….
which then made me wonder what’s the closest Bill has come to a tie? I don’t know how to find this out, but thought someone here might.
I was looking at the list just now and was surprised to see that all of Bill’s peers on the list had at least one tie. the next closest without a tie is Coughlin way down at 170 wins.
now it should be noted that overtime started in 1974 so before that there were many more ties, but still….
which then made me wonder what’s the closest Bill has come to a tie? I don’t know how to find this out, but thought someone here might.
The Zappe game against the Packers last year came down to a Packers FG with no time remaining in overtime.
I guess I’m having a problem with the folks who are labeling his game today as “good” or, as you put it, “competence”. Competence? He played against a top 5 defense in the league. He went 25-30, with 9.3 y/a. He had zero turnovers. He went 14-16 in the second half and led the team to scores on 3 of 4 second half possessions, including 2 TDs. He had a last minute, game winning drive to give them the victory in the last few seconds.
This is merely “competent”? I’ll ask you the same question I asked another poster. If this is just “competent”, what is the minimum he has to do to play “great”? You have to be consistent with how you label other QBs around the league as playing “great”.
People are nitpicking the injuries the Bills have on D but no team in the league is more injured than the Pats so it more or less evens out.
Coning into today they were #3 in points allowed per game and had caused 13 turnovers in just 5 games (2.6 per game). The Pats put up 29 on them without a single turnover.
It's a wishy washy line I admit, but when I say competence I mean executing the gameplan and making the basic throws, without bringing much explosiveness himself it's not really the same as the good/great continuum, on that I'd put it as a good game (very good maybe?). Yes he had 9.3 YPA, he also had 10.8 YPC, which tells you he was making a lot of short basic throws. It got the job done in the end, and it was no doubt a good game. On the other hand, they had a lot of open guys against a banged up BUF D, and he struggled in the red zone in this game, in part because that's where the windows get tight. He got away with some bad plays (yes everyone has some I know), and he got a lot of help from his passcatchers, he did a nice job taking what BOB schemed up.
I'm not saying it was not a good game, just that one of the best Mac Jones game is not at the level that a top game from a top QB is.
Today was either something to build on or a bright spot in a lost season.
I get people hating Mac and being overly critical of Bill the GM, but today was nothing but a good outcome.
I get people hating Mac and being overly critical of Bill the GM, but today was nothing but a good outcome.
Agreed. And they really have an opportunity to build something, if there’s anything there to build with. I’m not optimistic about next week, just because it’s at Miami. But the next 5 after that are all winnable.
We’ll know what we have for sure in a few weeks.
Define top QB - Mahomes level, I agree. Today, Mac looked like a guy that could be a top 15 QB in the league. Not great, but something to work with.
Fair. I guess I don’t see a need to prop up their performance based on the quality of the D. The offense played one of its better games ever under Mac today. Regardless of opponent.
I mean, isn't that kind of proving the point... this was a what... top 3 game of his career? And he looked like a top 10-15 QB, that was my point. The guys who are consistently top 10-12 QBs in the league, this is how they play, and one of their best games is much better than this. Mac played really well today, one of his best games as a pro... he should feel great. It just doesn't really change much about how I view him unless he starts putting together 5,6, 8, 10 of these, because it doesn't change my thoughts on his ceiling, and every QB has games below and above their baseline.
I mean I kind of meant he looked like a guy that could be a top 15 QB in the league today (if he keeps this up). He played just like 2019 Jimmy G today. That guy went to the Super Bowl - I mean he didn’t win it, but it is tough to get like a top 5 QB. Having a top 15 QB isn’t the end of the world.
Just to clarify - I do not think Mac is a top 15 QB, but if he cuts down on the turnovers and makes smart throws, he could possibly be around a top 15 QB with his limited skill set. I mean the odds of the that happening are pretty low, but at least it wasn’t another 3 turnover 0 TD performance.
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They’re missing their best DL, LB and DB so that seems like important context to add to the stats. Assuming they’ll be the same when they’ve lost all three the last 1-2 weeks is foolhardy. Blindly pointing to the stats isn’t helpful.
I will say… wouldn’t it be great if we had another 2 or 3 guys with the explosiveness of Douglas? I know it’s all Mac all the time for a lot of folks, but it’d sure be nice if we had more difference makers on the O.
Not every team misses their three best players. The injuries to Buffalo’s defense is a storyline that’s come up often the last two weeks you are comfortable ignoring for some reason. Especially when they got most of those stats with those three players. Every team has injuries. Not every injury is equal. Same reason I’d discount the Pats D and their stats immediately after the injuries to Judon and Gonzalez. You’re pointing to stats as if it’s analysis but it’s just looking at a number absent context.
Cool. Said differently what makes you think the Bills are such a great defense still when they’re missing two All Pros and a key DL outside of the stats they accumulated the several weeks prior?
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