Strong cherry picking. Is that part of the price of a message board too?Oh, well that settles it then.
Strong cherry picking. Is that part of the price of a message board too?Oh, well that settles it then.
Okay, I will play along with that.That said, the idea that this article is a warning shot fired by BB at the organization through a leaked article to ESPN, of all outlets, has no real grounding in reality and deserves push back.
Oh, well that settles it then.
Gentlemen, I value your posts from both of you (and others, including Buck). Let's keep it on topic.Strong cherry picking. Is that part of the price of a message board too?
Nick "Never" Wright makes Cris Carter look like a genius. He is one of the media geniuses that has been predicting that Brady would fall off the cliff for years and one of these years he might finally be correct. He really should stick to his never ending fanboy love of Lebron.A prime example of ESPN talking heads making something out of nothing, here's Nick Wright implying Kraft made BB go "out of his way" to do an interview that's not "mandated" with Michael "he wrote a book with BB" Holley:
Embarrassing. BB's weekly interview at WEEI must have been going on for years.
There's no doubting that it's far easier on Belichick than the other two. That said, there is a strong undercurrent of criticism for the value he got in trading Garoppolo. Tension with his HOF QB partially falls on him. The potential for him to leave the team in the lurch if he moves on or retires. I don't think it focused on criticizing Belichick, but it certainly didn't put him in a good light either.Then why does this article have zero criticism toward Belichick? Any “fault(s)” for the cracks in the relationship are completely steered toward TB and BK. There’s not much wiggle-room on that one – is there?
Boredom. Feelings of importance. Having strong opinions no one but a sympathetic-seeming journalist would listen to. Ego. I mean: Why does anyone say anything controversial to any journalist? Why did white house people confide in Wolff? Same goes here.So if you don’t believe the source for the information came from the Belichick Camp – then why would any low-level staffer (not aligned to anyone in particular) place his ass on the line to provide this information to ESPN? Clearly he is going to be ‘sniffed-out’ by the organization and fired right? And for what, what gain? To gain favor with Seth Wickersham?!
This isn't Mike Reiss or Sal Pal (who one "would" try to gain favor with).....this is Seth Wickersham.
It's certainly possible, but there were zero direct quotes, and the only item of which very few people would be aware (a half-day meeting on the subject of QBs between Belichick and Kraft, and probably Jonathan / Caserio / McDaniels) seems to have been the subject of rank speculation that became fact, rather than something that limited the possibilities down to a few people.Think of it; Stacey James has been there for 20+ years (even before BB became head coach). He’s had a hand in hiring any and every public relations individual(s) in that organization. And while all the official-media flows thru him – surely he knows (or someone on his staff knows) who Wickersham has a relationship with. 20+ years in the job, with a network of individuals in that organization, with the same ownership structure….you don’t think he / they could sniff that person(s) out and send his bags packing….yesterday?!!
I'm sure Buck will agree that calling Tom Brady stupid on a Patriots message board isn't exactly "Un-trolly", but I consider most of his/her comments sincere and thoughtful and just thought a line was crossed with that comment in this forum.Buck has been posting here for at least 10, maybe 15 years. I believe he is sincere in his statements (even if completely wrong), about as much as I believe that Kraft didn't order the code red. You can't make thousands of posts on a board without people coming to know how your mind works at least a little.
Neither person works for ESPN.A prime example of ESPN talking heads making something out of nothing, here's Nick Wright implying Kraft made BB go "out of his way" to do an interview that's not "mandated" with Michael "he wrote a book with BB" Holley:
Embarrassing. BB's weekly interview at WEEI must have been going on for years.
I think we've seen a bit of an evolution in how they handle these stories du jour at Patriots Place. "On to Cincinnati" has become legend and kind of the mantra for how people think of the organization's relationship with the press, but it's actually a bit more nuanced, even for Belichick. I remember there was even debate here whether Belichick would comment on Aaron Hernandez, with some saying, "of course not," and others say, "no, he has to," and the latter was closer. I think the prevailing wisdom for years for Belichick was that you can't control what they are going to say or do, so just ignore the noise and don't feed the beast. And while that's still mostly his M.O., he's definitely become softer and willing to get his message out there when something is bullshit -- even if it's merely to say, "you mean another one of those unsubstantiated reports, no I'm not going to comment," which of course actually is a comment.As far as this media debacle is concerned, I'm a little surprised at the attention that BB/RK/TB have given it ... almost taking it as an opportunity to bring attention to their 18 year healthy relationship
And now, almost 18 years later, the most obvious sign of Brady’s elite status in the locker room, the one thing that sets him apart from his peers? It’s an office chair. And it showed up this year. In the same year that Brady turned 40.
That’s your diva. That’s your prima donna.
That’s your guy who – as Seth Wickersham’s ESPN piece on Friday unmistakably illustrated – has been the angry lion in winter, arm-twisting teammates to see his body coach and business partner, browbeating the 76-year-old owner about his contract, throwing hospital balls to receivers like Chris Hogan and making sure the decks were cleared of all competition.
That’s BS.
Why exactly do we think its one source rather than Wickersham taking bits and pieces he heard from a handful of people and then crafting what he thinks is the story out of that color? Which disclosure is such a specific bombshell that its trackable and fireable? Its not like they have people on the record calling out any of the key players in the story. Even thought the Pats dont "leak" we still get anonymous quotes from Pats sources in media stories on a fairly routine basis, so people in the building talk to the media. Even if your premise is correct about how no one in the building who cares about their future would talk (and I dont think that's true), you know the Pats personnel deparment so well and down to mid-level PR guys that you are sure there was no one on the way out anyways who would be willing to provide off the record color?Okay, I will play along with that.
Then why does this article have zero criticism toward Belichick? Any “fault(s)” for the cracks in the relationship are completely steered toward TB and BK. There’s not much wiggle-room on that one – is there?
So if you don’t believe the source for the information came from the Belichick Camp – then why would any low-level staffer (not aligned to anyone in particular) place his ass on the line to provide this information to ESPN? Clearly he is going to be ‘sniffed-out’ by the organization and fired right? And for what, what gain? To gain favor with Seth Wickersham?!
This isn't Mike Reiss or Sal Pal (who one "would" try to gain favor with).....this is Seth Wickersham.
Think of it; Stacey James has been there for 20+ years (even before BB became head coach). He’s had a hand in hiring any and every public relations individual(s) in that organization. And while all the official-media flows thru him – surely he knows (or someone on his staff knows) who Wickersham has a relationship with. 20+ years in the job, with a network of individuals in that organization, with the same ownership structure….you don’t think he / they could sniff that person(s) out and send his bags packing….yesterday?!!
Clearly the Wickersham's source(s) are not on the bottom of the food-chain.
Which anecdotes do you think narrow it down? I don't see many that would lead me on anything but a wild goose chase -- and that, truly, would be a "distraction".
Probably better for Backwash, and its not aimed at Buck because I dont think he's trolling here, but +1 on the broader sentiment. Sometimes faux mods like to blindly cape up for dissenting opinions even if they come in the form of bad posts (and not bad as in "this opinion is bad" but bad as in "clearly below even a super loose interpretation of SOSH standards" and then tone police criticism of said bad posts. Their intentions are good, but It actively harms discourse and quality. The best solution is for moderators to moderate and enforce minimum standards and for posters to post and not moderate.There’s a vast difference between being a dissenting opinion to avoid an echo chamber and trolling. Buck is quite clearly doing the latter.
It’s most definitely a positive to have different opinions and ideas, to challenge opinions, etc, but when you get to the point of completely ignoring things that are contradictory to your stance - oh, I dunno, let’s say the simple fact that JG was in fact not denied access to TB12 and in fact had his own key card, for one- and then double down on wild ass assumptions to back yourself up, then that’s beyond that. He’s trolling.
And it’s great he’s been here a while and has a lot of posts, it’s great that some have been kicked out for doing it, but we all know it doesn’t stop it from happening (as DH3/Plympton can affirm) or that a lot aren’t just let back in later (as you and Moviegoer can affirm). There is, in fact, a line though. Or at least there ought to be.
C'mon. People were scratching their heads about the timing of the JG trade and the return, but this move isn't remotely the most controversial personnel move Belichick has made. I'd say there was more hand wringing last year when they traded Collins out of the blue, and there have been many others (Milloy, Vinatieri, Seymour, Mankins, and Welker come to mind immediately) where the media and large swaths of Patriot fans have been irate over his handling of established, contributing players. Yet after this move, where, outside of the morons on in the afternoon on 98.5, the worst people were saying about it is that it seems like they probably could have gotten more for him, he felt the need to go to the press to get the monkey off his back?In the face of JG’s 5-0 run....there were many criticisms that the Patriots got fleeced. This article gets the monkey off BB’s back. Plus, the article was released during their bye-week allowing for it to dissipate prior to the days leading up to the game itself.
I find it hard to believe given his history that Belichick one give one shit about what the press/public thought about the JG trade. But, if BB truly wanted to deflect criticism for the JG trade, throwing his starting QB and owner under the bus would have to be the worst possible way to do that. If that was his goal, why wouldn't he (or his "camp," whoever that is) instead leak things like "Cleveland never offered us anything close to a second-rounder and anything they say to the contrary is BS"? That would seem to accomplish the same goal without involving anyone else on the Patriots.In the face of JG’s 5-0 run....there were many criticisms that the Patriots got fleeced. This article gets the monkey off BB’s back. Plus, the article was released during their bye-week allowing for it to dissipate prior to the days leading up to the game itself.
Can you provide some examples? And, given that Wickersham was one of the authors of the stupid Spygate/Deflategate re-hash (which was certainly not pro-Belichick), why would Belichick's "camp" choose him of all reporters to leak this story to?BB’s camp has always had their ‘sounding boards’ / media pigeons while in Foxboro. You’re not paying attention if you don’t think that’s true.
But that doesn't really answer the question - even if Kraft did order the JG trade, what is preventing Belichick from walking up to Kraft's office, opening the door, and saying "by the way if you ever order me to do a trade again I'm quitting on the spot." What added benefit does he get from making his frustration public?I already said, I don’t think BB wants to leave. He has a kingdom in Foxboro – especially now with his boys in the building and daughter coaching at Holy Cross. But he also doesn’t want anything less than 100% of the decision making.
That's the issue. Journalism 101. ("played" implies it was intentional by the sources. I'm not even sure it was that. I think people may have accurately recounted their feeling and thoughts to the reporter, But there was not enough "how do you know that to be the case" from the reporter's side, or from his editors.) Sometimes, "how they know that" is self-evident, but not always, and, I'm guessing, not here in many cases.My guess is because the author was played — not by B.B. but by unsettled Pats employees. And instead of bringing skepticism to their accounts, Seth just ate them.
.
It actually looks like they doubled down on this, here's what it currently says:I ask because the article’s author already has withdrawn one of the more bizarre contentions in the article — that B.B. met with Goodell let week.
And characteristically in this regard Seth and ESPN acted like weasels — they just went in and edited the story, with no explanation, after BB vehemently denied the account of a meeting last week.
Here's the original quote, note no mention of two sources or the NFL's denial:He has even become good friends with Goodell. The two men had a long and private meeting, which two sources told ESPN occurred during the off week after the regular season, when the commissioner visited Foxborough. The NFL says the meeting happened last year, not within the past week.
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20180105063612/http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggleHe has even become good friends with Goodell. The two men had a long and private meeting during the off week after the regular season, when the commissioner visited Foxboro.
https://nesn.com/2018/01/nfl-rumors-patriots-apoplectic-over-espn-report-alleging-internal-rift/Bill Belichick claims he hasn’t read it. Robert Kraft and Tom Brady have disputed its contents. But privately, the New England Patriots are steamed over ESPN’s recent exposé. That’s according to The MMQB’s Peter King, who reported Monday the Patriots are more furious about author Seth Wickersham’s bombshell report — which alleges a serious, potentially irreparable rift between their owner, head coach and quarterback — than any other issue since Deflategate began in January 2015. “The Patriots haven’t been as angry about anything since the Tom Brady deflated footballs scandal,” King wrote. “Apoplectic might be a better word.”
Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/01/nfl-rumors-patriots-apoplectic-over-espn-report-alleging-internal-rift/
This 100%.Buck,
How much sloppiness do you tolerate in your affairs, personal or professional?
I ask because the article’s author already has withdrawn one of the more bizarre contentions in the article — that B.B. met with Goodell let week.
And characteristically in this regard Seth and ESPN acted like weasels — they just went in and edited the story, with no explanation, after BB vehemently denied the account of a meeting last week.
There is blood all over the floor. My guess is because the author was played — not by B.B. but by unsettled Pats employees. And instead of bringing skepticism to their accounts, Seth just ate them.
This is not professional grade work. Which is why Kraft and B.B. and the Pats can sit back like snipers and pick off the pieces that are demonstrably false.
But think about it--a secret handshake deal? This would so quickly become the biggest story in the sport if it broke into the NFL media circles. But no, you heard it on a message board.I'm as astounded as y'all, just intrigued by the possibility, however outlandish.
So - let's assume the report(s) are correct and Patricia is leaving for the NYG.....But Belichick also has taken a longer view, as though he sees pieces of his impact leaguewide. He's preparing assistant coaches for job interviews elsewhere, which he didn't always do in years past.
What a dumb article. Winning team that only ever wins is more upset about bs article than anything else since the last bs accusations by the same organization.
What? Why would they be upset about Hernandez's death? Hernandez's crimes and deception, sure. But his death? Good riddance to bad rubbish.What a dumb article. Winning team that only ever wins is more upset about bs article than anything else since the last bs accusations by the same organization.
I'm sure they were more upset about Edelman's injury.
Or, Hernandez's death.
I think that was his point. Nothing has happened since the deflating issue that would have caused any ire at Patriots HQ so saying "they haven't been this upset since deflate..." is kinda a huge "no shit, Sherlock"What? Why would they be upset about Hernandez's death? Hernandez's crimes and deception, sure. But his death? Good riddance to bad rubbish.
These things aren't really comparable. Edelman had a freak knee injury but it's the way it goes in football. This article was a team assassination that was poorly sourced and very speculative. And it was written because it was about the Patriots. That isn't the way it goes.What a dumb article. Winning team that only ever wins is more upset about bs article than anything else since the last bs accusations by the same organization.
I'm sure they were more upset about Edelman's injury.
Or, Hernandez's death.
Yeah, I think someone you knew and played with committing suicide would be more upsetting than a poorly-sourced article.What? Why would they be upset about Hernandez's death? Hernandez's crimes and deception, sure. But his death? Good riddance to bad rubbish.
He was a murderer. I'm guessing the team was more shocked and upset about the actual murders than Hernandez killing himself after being jailed for life.Yeah, I think someone you knew and played with committing suicide would be more upsetting than a poorly-sourced article.
Are you serious with this?So - let's assume the report(s) are correct and Patricia is leaving for the NYG.....
Still think Wickersham's sources were low-level flunkies?
Huh??? Patricia and McD interviewed last year too. And we know for a fact that BB helped McD when he was going through interviews the first time around, as well as Bill O'Brien. This is 1000000% bullshit.So - let's assume the report(s) are correct and Patricia is leaving for the NYG.....
Still think Wickersham's sources were low-level flunkies?
He sure is now.I'm pretty sure nobody on the Pats really cared that much that Hernandez died. He was a stone cold killer.
Agreed. This isn't out of the ordinary especially compared to last year, and I don't even understand why -this- is supposed to be news.Huh??? Patricia and McD interviewed last year too. And we know for a fact that BB helped McD when he was going through interviews the first time around, as well as Bill O'Brien. This is 1000000% bullshit.
We do? What sources have told you / us that?And we know for a fact that BB helped McD when he was going through interviews the first time around, as well as Bill O'Brien. This is 1000000% bullshit.
It’s widely known. I don’t have a link but it’s well documented that B.B. gave McD a 5 page document on “what it takes to be a successful HC” that McD refers to his “bible”. He also asked and prepped McD with a gouge on questions to ask at the interview.We do? What sources have told you / us that?
Various unnamed sourcesWe do? What sources have told you / us that?
We have found unnamed source #1. I'm betting that two, three, and four are Curran, Shefter, and Howe. However given the quality of some of the shit regurgitated he probably read Volin's articles as well.it’s actually right on McDaniels Wiki page
More specifically...It’s widely known. I don’t have a link but it’s well documented that B.B. gave McD a 5 page document on “what it takes to be a successful HC” that McD refers to his “bible”. He also asked and prepped McD with a gouge on questions to ask at the interview.
Edit... it’s actually right on McDaniels Wiki page
I still think we have no idea who they are, actually.So - let's assume the report(s) are correct and Patricia is leaving for the NYG.....
Still think Wickersham's sources were low-level flunkies?
Mayo is really smart. Great listen.For some compelling insight on this whole topic, I highly recommend listening to the most recent episode of Tom Curran's Quick Slants podcast. Jerod Mayo, who is regularly awesome on this podcast, is particularly funny and honest about this and other aspects of locker room dynamics amid media or roster "noise."
Apparently McDaniels thought so, because "[f]rom there McDaniels developed 60 to 65 questions of his own that he carried into job interviews with Cleveland and Denver . . . ."Wait what?!
Providing someone with an outline (however detailed) about the best-practices to be a head-coach in the NFL is preparing someone for specific interviews?!!!