Trade Deadline Approach
- Thread starter tims4wins
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Possibly, yeah. But they can sell it as prices were too high, they’ve got guys coming back. There is a risk to Bloom if they do nothing and the team tanks, I think.
That, too, is a risk. One that may be balanced by "WE think you are good enough." But maybe not. Not "losing the clubhouse," in the sense that they'll do whatever quitting baseball players do, but they might be pissed. However that affects the team's play, who knows?
Honestly I don't have much respect for any clubhouse that would be "lost" by almost anything a GM would do at a deadline.
& not because I don't have all the respect in the world for players & what it takes to go out & do their job every day. But it is their job, & it's a pretty cool job, & they should have confidence in their ability to go do their job no matter who the other 25 players are.
"I'm too demoralized to play baseball" should not be a thing.
& not because I don't have all the respect in the world for players & what it takes to go out & do their job every day. But it is their job, & it's a pretty cool job, & they should have confidence in their ability to go do their job no matter who the other 25 players are.
"I'm too demoralized to play baseball" should not be a thing.
I remember hearing that the clubhouse was demoralized after Vasquez got traded, and then Devers went and resigned for 300 million dollars, and they added a bunch of veterans. (And now Vasquez is slugging .308 with an OBP under .300., btw).
I'm not sure what "losing a clubhouse" even entails? Like, it disappears from under Fenway? The players rebel and refuse to play? They start eaten chicken and beer?
Money talks, at the end of the day.
I'm not sure what "losing a clubhouse" even entails? Like, it disappears from under Fenway? The players rebel and refuse to play? They start eaten chicken and beer?
Money talks, at the end of the day.
Well yeah, but Hedges can play defense. That's always been his value.
This I agree with.
However, if the front office doesn't add at the deadline while all the teams around them for the wild card are investing, is that not in fact money talking? Or, I suppose, "no money" talking.
Players become demotivated, morale sours, guys don't put in as much work between games... Not that hard to fathom.
There's a risk to getting out of bed. Being criticized as the GM of the Red Sox is not a risk so much as it is an environmental factor that must be considered when taking the job.
Which is to say I don't know if the Sox are going to buy, sell, or stand pat, but I do know Bloom is going to get criticized for it.
A couple guys RedSoxStats mentioned earlier whose names I haven't heard much about at the deadline...
Johan Oviedo (Pirates) & Edward Cabrera (Marlins). Neither have been great, yet.
View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1686421876531163136
Johan Oviedo (Pirates) & Edward Cabrera (Marlins). Neither have been great, yet.
View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1686421876531163136
While it would be great if we can command a kings ransom for Pivetta or Paxton, ultimately I agree that standing pat is probably where we'll land. Then go out there and state that you believe in this bunch and put it back on the players to make it happen. Sadly, it seems like Dugie has been pouty since he was first mentioned in trade talks and hopefully this will kick him back into gear.
As mentioned, we do have fresh (ish?) horses coming in a couple of weeks and how they perform will determine whether we sneak into the playoffs as WC3. I see us being able to win that WC series but then overmatched in the divisional. Which would be a fine season, + resetting the CBT, + building back the minors (to the extent that we actually need to move some of them in the offseason at risk of losing them to R5).
I think from day 1 this year Bloom and Co weren't expecting this team to be the team that they expect have for the next several years. They showed it by only doing short term FA rentals in the holes we needed to fill. Next year we will have fewer of those holes to fill and we have lots to spend this offseason, and even more in 2024 with a really good core going into those years (especially with the break out seasons Casas and Duran are having).
As mentioned, we do have fresh (ish?) horses coming in a couple of weeks and how they perform will determine whether we sneak into the playoffs as WC3. I see us being able to win that WC series but then overmatched in the divisional. Which would be a fine season, + resetting the CBT, + building back the minors (to the extent that we actually need to move some of them in the offseason at risk of losing them to R5).
I think from day 1 this year Bloom and Co weren't expecting this team to be the team that they expect have for the next several years. They showed it by only doing short term FA rentals in the holes we needed to fill. Next year we will have fewer of those holes to fill and we have lots to spend this offseason, and even more in 2024 with a really good core going into those years (especially with the break out seasons Casas and Duran are having).
If you're in the race for the playoffs and you can't get motivated, that's a you problem.
The pitch-framing value is off the charts with him but he's slipped a bit in throwing out baserunners. 8 CS in 58 attempts this year.
As others have noted, it's difficult to add when you have 3 starting pitchers (or 1 starter and two relievers) and a starting shortstop all returning. I'm not saying all of those guys are guaranteed to come back healthy, but even if 2/3 starters come back, you still have to push someone to the bullpen who's been performing well between Pivetta and Crawford.
I'm not saying I wouldn't want to add a starting pitcher! But I'm also not sure it adds enough value to justify shuttling off your top prospect.
Why would the Marlins be selling, though? They have a better record than the Sox and are currently in playoff position.
Yeah, and that's precisely what the players will think about the front office: that they aren't treating the team as if they are in a playoff race and weren't motivated to add to it. So why should they be?
This is a bit like watching a club form and not being asked to become a member. I get why the Red Sox would do nothing - still I won't deny it is a bit frustrating to watch.
With you on this one. There's been an awful lot of hand-wringing about the demoralized clubhouse... if the Sox don't do anything, or if they trade away a "veteran presence" like Paxton (who has only been with the team really for 2/3 of a season). Most players on the team have probably been traded or signed with new teams over their careers. It's a business, and the idea that you're going to quit on the team or revolt because someone gets moved feels silly.
That's not to say that these players aren't human beings with feelings. Sure, people might be bummed out if someone they are close with leaves. But to the point where it's going to cause measurable impacts to the team? I would have to wager that's fairly uncommon.
Just gonna back up Rasputin - these guys are pros. They're still in the race.
Also, I would be really surprised if they just sold off Paxton, Duvall and Verdugo and got a bunch of lottery tickets. They'd be looking for major-league players or players who are top prospects very close to the majors, at least for Paxton, given the returns other teams have been getting.
They can think whatever they want. I'm sure baseball players think a lot of things. (Except Johnny Damon). I'm not a pro athlete, but a player who lets that thinking affect his performance is not worth adding to. I think its much more likely that they say "fuck them. we'll show 'em!!".
The major league players want management to trade prospects they’ve probably never met or heard of? Shocking.
The price of talent, even rentals that make little sense for them to offer real assets for, is super high this year, so it won’t bother me in the least if they don’t acquire a marginal short term upgrade for optics sake.
The price of talent, even rentals that make little sense for them to offer real assets for, is super high this year, so it won’t bother me in the least if they don’t acquire a marginal short term upgrade for optics sake.
I wouldn't be trading Verdugo or Paxton without getting a significant upper minors return. Duvall goes for lottery tickets, I'm maybe okay with that.
Sale, Whitlock, and Story. Poster boys for staying healthy. Yup, great if they can make it through the season. I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it.
Major league players have a much more complicated motivational matrix than that. They're not just playing for the playoffs (although that matters), they're playing for their next contract, for their teammates, to make their father happy, to impress their future wife...
... and quiet quitting because one guy got traded isn't really viable in baseball. If you strike out 50% of the time the rest of the way out of protest, everybody knows. You're on television, after all.
They aren't, but if they buy something that would bump Cabrera & his 4.79 ERA out of the rotation, I'm sure there are permutations that could work.
Or maybe they could be a Paxton destination. It seems more like a binky thing for him than an actual likely option, though.
Of course there’s a risk with this approach. But it’s not like standing pat is truly standing pat. They do have significant reinforcements coming.
That's a big part of it for me. They are 2 games out and generally playing well. TWO. Not 5 or 6 with a slim chance if only they can do x, y, and z.
Story's injury history is basically a broken wrist and the UCL. He's been very durable otherwise, but don't let the facts get in the way of your reasoning!
Sale and Whitlock, I hear you on. But they don't need them to be healthy all year, they just are hoping they'll be healthy the rest of the way. Which is why many of us are supportive of adding a starting pitcher if the price is right, while also acknowledging that they can probably survive and even make the playoffs if one of Sale and Whitlock can stay healthy the rest of the way.
Not to mention the fact that there are always dozens of young and hungry players more than willing to take your place. Not always trying to play your absolute best seems like a losing strategy in such a competitive field.
If we trade Paxton for Cabrera we would be the sellers and they would be fools.
I'm not expecting a major deal or anything but doing literally nothing would be a legitimate disappointment for me. Any bit helps so I find it hard to believe that Chaim can't find a single deal that involves a prospect or two he's comfortable dealing without compromising what he's trying to accomplish.
But I don't think anyone can say that it's *more * of a factor than the motivations for not "giving up" (or whatever we can call it). There seem to be a shitload more reasons to keep playing just as hard tomorrow as you did yesterday then there are for not doing so.
More relevantly, I dont think he's had even a single instance of a setback since his surgery? No "delaying the rehab," or "taking a step back" or any of those ominous things.
I imagine they could be in a similar boat as us, buying and selling. They really have a lot of young arms and may see Cabrera more as a multi-inning reliever than starter.
I wonder if they'd do something complicated, like packaging a pitcher like Cabrera and Avisaíl Garcia (2/$24M remaining) for Adam Duvall. They would probably love to get out from Garcia's contract and taking him on would basically give us a Duvall type for next year.
I don't there is a human being on the planet whose performance isn't affected by circumstance and psychology. Not that standing pat would necessarily lead the team to play worse, because players are disgruntled. Though its preferable having happy players rather than disgruntled ones who feel potentially taken for granted by management.
I just did a pretty nationally high profile acting job on B'way. One actor, in a lead role, left the show, and was replaced by another who was famous but utterly ill equipped for the part. And everyone was FUCKING PISSED. Pissed at the producers - literally felt betrayed. The quality of the show suffered, and, yes, people started actually not caring as much, joking around more, getting sloppier in the work. It was a direct result. Now - the professional thing to do would be to NOT be affected by stuff you can't control. But we're all human. And these were esteemed pros at the top of their profession, so ... it happens.
FWIW, I think a 2B is needed…. But I was responding to a post that demanded a deal because the Sox charge a lot for tickets.
They don’t need to do anything for any reason at all….especially for a fan feeling like they’re entitled.
FWIW, in a business context, I've only used "creative" as a polite way to describe someone whose ideas have been way off target.
The players don’t give a damn that Bloom felt the prices are too high. I can assure you the players don’t care about the prospects anywhere near as much as the fans. Bloom is in a no-win situation
No offense, but I can't think of a more famously mercurial group than actors.
Writers, maybe?
His comment about not being smart enough to understand the pressure in 2004 was real Art Linkletter moment.
Players aren’t stupid and aren’t robots. They know when they need help. Making a move or two at the deadline shows the players that the FO considers the team worthy to invest in and that they want to win. If they don’t do anything, what does that say? They don’t give a shit about the farm system and the prices on the market. They want to win now.