There was a typo, I'm on my phone. Read the articles. He went back because he liked it and wanted to stay. It had nothing to do with business or who would draft him.knucklecup said:Boom. Thanks man.
There was a typo, I'm on my phone. Read the articles. He went back because he liked it and wanted to stay. It had nothing to do with business or who would draft him.knucklecup said:Boom. Thanks man.
All good. Also on my phone so understand exactly what you're talking about. Reading now. Thank you for helping out and for not resorting to childish insults that only derail the task at hand.Cellar-Door said:There was a typo, I'm on my phone. Read the articles. He went back because he liked it and wanted to stay. It had nothing to do with business or who would draft him.
At least it was something wild and "not reasonable" that nobody could have thought of thus validating your vomiting all over the board today. Excellent judgment you have.knucklecup said:Boom. Thanks man.
What do you disagree with? I might be able to explain it better if you actually explain what you disagree with.amarshal2 said:At least it was something wild and "unreasonable" that nobody could have thought of thus validating your vomiting all over the board today.
Yeah, this high in the draft it makes near zero sense to draft for need unless it's a complete tie between the two top options. And Smart's choice is the choice of an 18 year old. This is like the only thread where we might remotely expect an 18 year old to think like a microeconomist and not, well, a kid. Regardless of professional guidance from agents.Sprowl said:From those two links, it sounds like Smart has personal leadership capacities as well. There also seems to be a near consensus that he was the best player available at #6, regardless of team need.
knucklecup said:I find your inquiry remarkably ignorant and naive of you.
Well, I know somebody who can go fuck themselves.knucklecup said:Thank you for helping out and for not resorting to childish insults that only derail the task at hand.
Wait. Are you saying there are attractive women AND gorgeous weather in Indiana over the summer? I drove through yesterday. 85 degrees and humid. And nary an attractive lady to be found.knucklecup said:Edit: you say this like you or I were in this kids shoes... This isn't me juggling the pros and cons of staying the summer in Bloomington IN with attractive women, beautiful weather, and a free life versus going home to work for the summer? I find your inquiry remarkably ignorant and naive of you.
Ask James Michael McAdoo. From sure fire lottery pick to Undrafted Free Agent.Jed Zeppelin said:What are the wrong reasons to return to school?
bowiac said:I don't understand this. Shooting the thing that's easiest to learn at the NBA level, as opposed to something like playing defense or athleticism.
Aaron Gordon is a pretty pointless NBA player if he doesn't learn to shoot. Dante Exum supposedly isn't a good shooter. That's two of the five guys who went ahead of him.
Every college player needs to improve to be a useful pro. Smart was one of the best players in college, with better athleticism and projection than most of the guys better than him. He's got a major flaw, but basically unless you're Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker, that's true of everyone.
The way he bodies up defensively reminds me of a smaller version of Ron Artest. I love the way he plays D with his feet and upper body. That's the way Mr. Bates taught us at Bristol Eastern.Brickowski said:IMHO Celtics fans will begin to appreciate Smart a little more after the first time he defends Dwayne Wade.
Went to college in Bloomington, so probably have made that route before. Where's home?fairlee76 said:Wait. Are you saying there are attractive women AND gorgeous weather in Indiana over the summer? I drove through yesterday. 85 degrees and humid. And nary an attractive lady to be found.
Off-topic for sure. But just want to disabuse any delusions of grandeur when it comes to Indiana weather and women.
Congrats on making a lot of money. That's sooooo cool.
Was Avery Bradley ever projected particularly high? He was a top college prospect, but I don't recall him showing up high on draft boards (I could be remembering wrong...).ALiveH said:thanks for the article. Smart & Young also remind me of the Sullinger & Avery Bradley picks in that at one point they were projected much higher than where we took them.
Was this an NBA scouting service or one based off high school results? This is very important as Rick Brunson was once one of the best high school players in the country and MVP of the McDonald's game.......yet was never projected to be a star NBA player.ALiveH said:The different scouting services ranked Avery Bradley between #1-5 in his class coming out of high school, which means at that point in time he was projected to be a high lottery draft pick, just like the top-5 in the 2015 mock draft today are basically just the top-5 high school seniors.
Brunson was a 6-1 PG who played below the rim and had a set shot. Never was he ever discussed as a top flight NBA prospect even back then because he was already a skilled player who didn't posses the upside (athleticism) of his skills catching up to his athleticism. One reason i recall Chaney loving him was because there was little risk of him jumping to the NBA early.wutang112878 said:Was that his projection while he was in high school though?
I actually went to Salem and was 5 years behind Brunson, so I actually saw him play and experienced the hype. As I remember it in high school he looked like the real deal, and his fatal flaw (lack of speed) was never really evident at the time. It started to surface once he hit college and there was a significant sample size against high quality competition. Lets also remember the guy got to the NBA and actually played a significant number of games there, so its not as if there was no chance he was ever going to be an NBA player whatsoever.
Scoonie Penn had a very similar story a few years later. He was virtually the opposite as Brunson, super fast but under sized and again this flaw really surfaced in college and it was clear he wasnt going to be able to completely compensate for it. But he also played in Europe and the D-league I believe as well, so he was knocking on the door.
I think you can tear apart the game of most high school players. But the same flaws that were ultimately found in Brunson were also there for Mark Jackson but Jackson somehow overcame them. Scoonie's comparison is probably Muggsy Bogues, or Spud Webb or Avery Johnson. And you have to be the best of the best of the scouts to tell the difference between a Mark Jackson and Rick Brunson in college. A really long winded way of saying, those high school to NBA projections really arent that accurate either.
NBAdraft had him as a lottery pick as late as mid-June.bowiac said:Was Avery Bradley ever projected particularly high? He was a top college prospect, but I don't recall him showing up high on draft boards (I could be remembering wrong...).
HomeRunBaker said:Brunson was a 6-1 PG who played below the rim and had a set shot. Never was he ever discussed as a top flight NBA prospect even back then because he was already a skilled player who didn't posses the upside (athleticism) of his skills catching up to his athleticism. One reason i recall Chaney loving him was because there was little risk of him jumping to the NBA early.
I do not have this sense, and this was kind of what I was getting at when I doubted Bradley was ever a top pick. Even when Bradley was a top recruit, his scouting reports noted that he was a bit short for his position. This does not read like the scouting report of a high lottery pick:wutang112878 said:Your original contention that I disagreed with is that the high school prospect ranking is really different than the 'how would these players rank as NBA prospects'. I do agree that overall your criteria for college vs NBA success is going to be different. But my point with the Brunson and Scoonie stories is that there is so little we know about high school players that its almost impossible to really distinguish between prospect vs bust. Its virtually impossible to determine the difference between Kwame Brown & Dwight Howard. If you didnt know who they were and what they became and I showed you tape of Raymond Felton and Rick Brunson in their regular high school games, I really dont think you could tell me which would be the #5 pick and which would be undrafted.
There might not be a better midrange scorer in the class nor a better on the ball defender than Bradley. He does have room for improvement as a rebounder and passer, but his niche as a scorer and defender make him one of the top shooting guards in the country. His wing span and heart allow him to play bigger than his height.
Steven Adams put up 7 and 6 while being a lottery pick the following year. He was the guy I wanted Ainge to move up for.....not Olynyk. You cannot grade college bigs on their numbers with the rules far different than the NBA. They are much more restrictive while playing with guards who aren't experienced enough to understand how to utilize their bigs skills.wutang112878 said:Wait what? He averaged less than 8pog and 6 rebounds per. And if his defensive role was anything more than "stand in the middle of the paint and put your hands up" his lack of actual basketball skill would have been very evident.
Wait, you're using Mark Jackson and Eric Snow as examples of why Avery Bradley was thought to be a high lottery pick coming out of HS?wutang112878 said:
Brunson's listed at 6 4 (ESPN & BBref) that makes a big difference and he was an adequate 3pt shooter (30% in college & roughly that in the pros). Sure he played below the rim but so did Mark Jackson and Eric Snow and they made it. However, the lack of athleticism really wasnt as evident as you are making it out to be. When he was playing for Salem because he was head and shoulders the best player on the court, you really couldnt get a sense of what his physical limitations really were.
Your original contention that I disagreed with is that the high school prospect ranking is really different than the 'how would these players rank as NBA prospects'. I do agree that overall your criteria for college vs NBA success is going to be different. But my point with the Brunson and Scoonie stories is that there is so little we know about high school players that its almost impossible to really distinguish between prospect vs bust. Its virtually impossible to determine the difference between Kwame Brown & Dwight Howard. If you didnt know who they were and what they became and I showed you tape of Raymond Felton and Rick Brunson in their regular high school games, I really dont think you could tell me which would be the #5 pick and which would be undrafted.
HomeRunBaker said:Wait, you're using Mark Jackson and Eric Snow as examples of why Avery Bradley was thought to be a high lottery pick coming out of HS?
Scoonie struggled in our pro-am summer league agaiant bigger former D-1 guards, ex-BC guard Jamie Benton destroyed him both times they played and wasn't even the best PG on his team (Shawn Hood ex-Cleveland St guard was). There wasn't a chance in hell he was an NBA player no more than someone like Bryce Cotton is.
If I said that it was a typo. What I said was that a "Top-5 HS ranking" is not the same thing as a projected Top-5 draft pick. In today's AAU world where these kids have competed against each other for many years the HS ranking is likely fairly accurate......but again this is different than projecting NBA skillset with their size, length and athleticism being a much larger factor.wutang112878 said:
I'm using Mark Jackson and Eric Snow as example why a guy you said was never considered an NBA prospect actually had some potential coming out of high school because some major flaws were hidden and guys like him (Jackson and Snow) did have significant NBA careers. My overall point that the ranking when players are coming out of high school is really an inexact science.
Stand in the middle and put your hands up is a fine defensive role when you're his size. He was honestly pretty good. His block rate was insane, he finished around the rim fine. Most Syracuse fans wouldn't consider him a bust. He wasn't a huge star, but he was a valuable player.wutang112878 said:Wait what? He averaged less than 8pog and 6 rebounds per. And if his defensive role was anything more than "stand in the middle of the paint and put your hands up" his lack of actual basketball skill would have been very evident.
One player making an impression: Celtics rookie guard Marcus Smart, and he's not even really trying out for Team USA. Instead, the No. 6 overall pick in the June draft is a member of the Select Team -- which has been put together for the purpose of pushing national team candidates in practice. But Smart has more than held his own while playing with and against the likes of Damian Lillard (Trail Blazers), Kyrie Irving (Cavaliers) and Derrick Rose (Bulls).
MillarTime said:It's boner time.
Bulpett reported the 2 week thing too and he's out of his mind. Smart was grabbing above his ankle leading me to believe he either broke his fibula or the best case torn ligaments above his ankle (the dreaded high ankle sprain). Only guessing of course but I'd be shocked to see Smart in the next 4 weeks even if it's the best case scenario.Brickowski said:x-rays were negative, no word on the MRI. Best case is that he misses 2 weeks with a bad sprain.