Except that it means that it's okay for pitchers to intentionally hit batters for any reason they want unless it's in retaliation for someone intentionally hitting one of their team's batters.Let's focus on what MLB apparently has decided:
The ump believed (based on the comments from the crew chief) that the Ortiz HBP was intentional, thus used his discretion to issue warnings. In effect, MLB is saying the the "punishment" for Price consisted of being put on notice.
Farrell, who apparently wasn't fine or suspended, was throw out for arguing that, in his own words, "the ball was taken out of our hand," meanina a chance to retaliate.
MLB is ruling, apparently, that they considered the incident closed at the time of the warning. That Farrell wasn't punished would seem to infer that MLB wasn't all that thrilled with the ejection.
The umps did not believe the Carp HBP was intentional. The Sox were steamed, of course, and Luvollo was tossed for arguing the intent of that pitch.
The Workman and 3B coach ejections were do to the intent ruling on the pitch to Longoria -- which to the umps, and to MLB, was the only intentional action after the Ortiz HBP.
In essence, MLB made its ruling in regards only to the on-field happening AFTER in its mind the umpires had issued the initial warning.
You can hate it all you want. But it all turns on the HP ump decision to issue a warning to Price instead of immediate ejection. There's no reason in their minds to punish Price, given their thought process.
joe dokes said:
I think this is an accurate recounting; but I am pretty sure that pitchers in Price's shoes, (warned but not ejected), have still been disciplined. Or maybe I'm confusing it with a hockey "no-penalty-but-discipline" situation.
judyb said:Except that it means that it's okay for pitchers to intentionally hit batters for any reason they want unless it's in retaliation for someone intentionally hitting one of their team's batters.
Bone Chips said:Isn't there some sort of syndrome where a victim bonds with his attacker?
I what universe is this fair? The worst brawl in baseball this season (Pirates Brewers) only netted a 3 game suspension for Carlos Gomez. I can't think of any ruling more egregious than this one. Even a child can understand this.
Bone Chips said:Isn't there some sort of syndrome where a victim bonds with his attacker?
I what universe is this fair? The worst brawl in baseball this season (Pirates Brewers) only netted a 3 game suspension for Carlos Gomez. I can't think of any ruling more egregious than this one. Even a child can understand this.
garlan5 said:
If he could throw it at Joe Madden would you approve? I'd be okay with a botched pickoff attempt airmailed towards their dug out
Pitcher suspensions are always going to look stupid as long as they go by "games." 6 probably guarantees he misses at least one start, which is all they care about.Bone Chips said:I what universe is this fair? The worst brawl in baseball this season (Pirates Brewers) only netted a 3 game suspension for Carlos Gomez. I can't think of any ruling more egregious than this one. Even a child can understand this.
E5 Yaz said:
If I had to guess, I'd say that the warning was the discipline ... plus the knowledge that he'll be watched more closely against the Red Sox in the future.
Not in the wallet.Snodgrass'Muff said:
A three game suspension for Gomez is longer than a 6 game suspension for Workman.
E5 Yaz said:
If I had to guess, I'd say that the warning was the discipline ... plus the knowledge that he'll be watched more closely against the Red Sox in the future.
LuckyBen said:
How is a warning a discipline? The only team it hurt in that instance was the Red Sox. You really think David Price will be worried about being watched more closely in the future? He just got away with it completely clean, and made claims that he felt justified in doing so.
E5 Yaz said:
Like I said, that's MLB logic, not mine. They basically told him to cut that shit out, or he's gone. Does it give him a break? Sure, but the fact price is an unlikable sort doesn't take away from the point that the umpires established the parameters for the game, and he followed them.
E5 Yaz said:
Again, the umpiring crew thought it was intentional on Price's part ... but not to the level of ejection
Jaylach said:
Well, not really because he hit a second batter with a fast ball up and in.
theapportioner said:We could start a White House petition.
tims4wins said:
How can a beanball be intentional but not warrant ejection? That is what I am struggling with. I think it is the "superstar clause". If it was a scrub that hit Ortiz, he may have been ejected.
E5 Yaz said:
That was deemed unintentional by the people setting the parameters. You can argue the point, but at the time of the warnings it becomes about intent
E5 Yaz said:
That's in the rules spelled out in the gamethread that night. A hit batter deemed intentional can merit either warning or ejection, umpires discretion
This.vintage'67 said:I think this is a correct interpretation of the what MLB's reasoning was. We've seen this before. I think it also shows the flaw in MLB's logic. If Price was intentional, you either need to let the teams settle it (up to a point) or throw Price out of the game and issue the warning. Only issuing the warning starts the unfairness Farrell called "taking the ball out of our hands." I get that MLB wants to crack down on players being thrown at, but they need to really think through the scenarios. It's not inconceivable or unpredictable that the Sox are more pissed after Workman's suspension (in an adding insult to injury way) than they were before. That does not help settle things down.
Does the league have the ability to reconsider the question of intent before issuing suspensions, or are they obligated to follow the interpretation of the umpires?E5 Yaz said:
That's in the rules spelled out in the gamethread that night. A hit batter deemed intentional can merit either warning or ejection, umpires discretion
Jaylach said:
You're right, but once a warning is issued it typically means no more fastballs up and in. Price didn't "listen" and hit another person because of it.
NWsoxophile said:Does the league have the ability to reconsider the question of intent before issuing suspensions, or are they obligated to follow the interpretation of the umpires?
joe dokes said:This has been a long-term issue for MLB -- the warning after the first HBP is somewhat unfair to the team that got hit. I think a more experienced plate ump might have waited until the Sox get a shot at some Rays's ass and *then* give the warning.
joe dokes said:This has been a long-term issue for MLB -- the warning after the first HBP is somewhat unfair to the team that got hit. I think a more experienced plate ump might have waited until the Sox get a shot at some Rays's ass and *then* give the warning.
deconstruction said:
But if the ump deems it intentional, isn't he compelled to immediately eject or issue a warning? Wouldn't him waiting violate the rules? I'm genuinely asking.
I think the mistake is assuming Workman's pitch was intentional.
E5 Yaz said:
I don't know, but it's a great question. But from what we've heard thus far, it doesn't seem as though the Rays wilkl be under any such scrutiny
soxhop411 said:
Nick Cafardo @nickcafardo 3s
Ortiz said MLB wants to speak to him about incident with Price next couple of days.
After the rest of what happened in that game? I expect 6 games suspension for PapiJaylach said:
I have a feeling Ortiz gets a fine for all his comments.
garlan5 said:I just hope Alex Wilson is nice and warmed up and we're up big. I hope he hits that fucking SS
E5 Yaz said:
Workman misses 1 game in which he would have played
smastroyin said:I kind of feel like the Rays are using this feud with the Red Sox to validate their own existence and drum up support. I suppose we should take it as flattery that they have chosen the Red Sox instead of the Yankees as being the team that they want to hate. It doesn't change the fact that I really hate them and the two things keeping me happy about this season are Xander's emergence and the fact that the Rays suck too.
garlan5 said:I thought it was more up too. Looks like our went by the letters
Would not be shocked if he pimps his HR off Price even more then the one in the playoffs...Hank Scorpio said:Can a hitter be suspended for putting on too much of a display after hitting a home run?
Next time Ortiz takes Price deep, I hope he does his best Manny/Horgan impression, turns, spits towards the mound as he grabs his junk. As he marches around the bases like a tin soldier, he bends and SLAPS each base. Down the third base line, he does the Gomes helmet punt. When he approaches home, he slows to a near stop, gets down on one knee on the plate, looks skyward and raises a fist in the air. Hold the position for at least 10 seconds.
Then, as he's walking back to the dugout, he turns to Price, gives him his biggest "CHEESE!" smile with a double thumbs up.
bankshot1 said:This.
But I would add that once Price hit Carp, then any "benefit of doubt" is gone and Price and Maddon should have been ejected. The umpires were as inept in handling a known volatile situation as I've ever seen.
Can anyone read the lips of the umpire here?Jaylach said:Re-watching the Carp HBP, I didn't realize how close to his head this really was...
http://m.mlb.com/video/v33295993/tbbos-benches-clear-after-carp-is-hit-by-pitch/?c_id=mlb
Not too far from the behind-the-back Longoria got...
E5 Yaz said:
We're in agreement. If for no other reason than to try to alleviate the anger, he should have been tossed after the Carp HBP ... but that's on the umpires, not MLB.
steeplechase3k said:Can anyone read the lips of the umpire here?
Jaylach said:
I think more "seasoned" umps handle within the "unwritten rules" of the game. If a batter gets hit on purpose, a seasoned ump will typically let the other team retaliate before issuing a warning.
I think an ump waiting will violate the written rules, but form my vantage point it feels like the unwritten rules (in this situation) are what's more important.
Marbleheader said:MLB is guaranteeing that this gets dragged into the next series between these teams, multiple batters will get hit, and the benches will clear.