Cavs fire David Blatt

Grin&MartyBarret

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The posts stating Blatt wasn't a good coach are silly. How can anyone say that?

The Cavs' roster is basically a mongoloid by NBA standards. They have LeBron James who is the greatest player of his generation and arguably of all time in his declining years. Then Cleveland has a half-an-elite but recently oft-injured player in Kyrie Irving, a square peg in Kevin Love, a good big in Tristan Thompson and then your typical mid-level NBA guys in Mozgov, Smith, Shumpert. And the rest of the roster is essentially barely functional NBA talent - Matthew Dellavedova has played a lot of meaningful minutes for this team which says a lot about that roster. Yet the team went to the finals last spring despite a rash of injuries and is on track to win 60 games this season.

Boiled down, the Cavs roster is one superstar and a lot of other flawed players - if you compare to the Spurs or Warriors its clear that Cleveland has a huge talent deficit outside of James. Not even Popovich could win with this roster. Its terribly flawed.
There's more to coaching than what goes on on the floor. It's been clear for two seasons that Blatt doesn't have the locker room, and there have been rumblings (that Griffin addressed and confirmed today) that the team has no cohesion off the floor and just generally seems miserable, even at 30-11.
 

Kliq

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I think part of the reason they lack cohesion is because if LeBron is undermining the coach then it is difficult for the rest of the team to respect him.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I think part of the reason they lack cohesion is because if LeBron is undermining the coach then it is difficult for the rest of the team to respect him.
Brendan Haywood basically said the opposite. That from day one Blatt was afraid to counter LeBron and lost the team's respect as a result.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Of course Lue can be fired next week, but it's absurd to give him a three year deal.

If Lue gets fired before the deal ends, Gilbert is paying dead money to yet another dismissed coach (Mike Brown - $4M annually, Blatt - $5M annually).
Which doesn't affect the cap or tax at all and has no bearing on player acquisition. You don't replace a Head Coach will a lame duck guy because you don't want to give the teams coach job security. It sends the wrong message and contradicts the purpose of firing Blatt. When you make a management decision you must do so with a commitment even if it really is only the facade of one. The players aren't going to buy what Lue is selling if the owner/GM doesn't show he's committed to him. This is Leadership 101 stuff.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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There's more to coaching than what goes on on the floor. It's been clear for two seasons that Blatt doesn't have the locker room, and there have been rumblings (that Griffin addressed and confirmed today) that the team has no cohesion off the floor and just generally seems miserable, even at 30-11.
That may well be true.

However they are 30-11 and the top seed in the EC. In Blatt's first season, they went to the finals and won two games despite having only LeBron and Thompson as the only guys who would start on any of the other playoff contenders (to be clear, I am referencing the fact that Kyrie was out). Both you and Kliq may be correct in that the dynamic between Blatt and LeBron wasn't conducive to maximizing their talent, however that ignores a simple and plain fact. The Cavs roster, as currently comprised, is not talented enough to beat the elite NBA teams and is weak enough to lose to inferior teams. That isn't on Blatt at all.

As side note, its amazing how the Kevin Love sweepstakes may have doomed one championship aspirant while simultaneously boosting another's fortunes. Had Golden State traded Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes and, say, Festus Ezeli for Love, Golden State would almost certainly be a weaker team. Meanwhile the Cavs would likely have a line-up of at least, LeBron, Irving, Thompson and Wiggins. While Love is a better player than Wiggins at this point (Wiggins is abysmal from deep at 24.5%), Wiggins skill set as a potential strong defender (not there yet) and his moves around the rim make a nice complement to the scoring of LeBron and Irving. It really would have been interesting to see if Wiggins could develop next to LeBron but instead they have Kevin Love who belongs on the NBA's version of the Island Of Misfit Toys.
 

riboflav

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So much juicy stuff all rolled into one I can't even quote everything that deserves to be quoted. Many of these issues have been known for awhile then there are some shocking ones. It will be difficult for Blatt to get another head gig if all of this is true.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/01/why_david_blatt_got_fired_and.html
Love how they included Blatt not being able to draw up plays during timeouts which is of course his biggest strength and what he's renown for on the coaching circuit. #anonymoussources
 

soxhop411

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god damn, this does not paint Lebron in a good light

Before David Blatt ever conducted his first training camp practice in September 2014, Cleveland Cavaliers star LeBron James and his agent, Rich Paul, had the coach's succession plan in place: Mark Jackson.

To become the preferred candidate of the most powerful player in the NBA – and de facto Cavaliers general manager – Jackson understood what he needed to do: Bring on James' and Paul's Klutch Sports agency as his representation, and prepare to deliver those commission fees into the King's coffers. Blatt never had a chance. He never knew what hit him.

From the beginning, the Klutch Sports campaign to puncture Blatt's standing as head coach had been as relentless as it was ruthless. James is one of the great leaders in pro sports, and he directed the Cavaliers how he wanted them: in complete defiance of Blatt.
Finally, James' camp had its way on Friday, the Cavaliers firing the coach of the defending Eastern Conference championsand runaway No. 1 seed. Over a season and a half on the job, associate head coach Tyronn Lue fought hard to stay loyal to Blatt, balancing that line of hearing out James' and Paul's barrages on Blatt and yet still urging them to give the coach a chance.



In the end, here was the problem for Klutch Sports' original plan: Cleveland refused to hire Jackson. General manager David Griffin is too well-connected in the NBA, too knowledgeable of the truths inside Jackson's Warriors regime to let that happen. So much of Griffin's job has been to manage the constant demands of James' camp and the volatility of owner Dan Gilbert. As much as anything, his job has been to bridge the chaos above and below him.
Once James' camp realized that Jackson would never be considered as coach – nor would Lue leave his representation to join Klutch Sports agency, despite overtures – Lue became a compromise choice for James' group, sources said. They started pushing for Lue to replace Blatt last season, and grew louder in those calls in recent days and weeks.

Gilbert made Lue the league's highest-paid assistant coach at $2 million-plus a year, forever considering him the head-coach-in-waiting should Blatt need to go. Ultimately, Blatt had little staying power with the Cavaliers, because James had turned Blatt's removal into an inevitability. As the games wore on, opposing players on the floor weren't only watching James constantly wave off plays from the coach – but role players feeling emboldened to disregard the head coach's instructions, too.

James had the Cavaliers existing in open rebellion for over a season now, with no Pat Riley in the organizational shadows to scare everyone into compliance.
More at the link
Lebron IS a coach killer… And a horrible person
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-david-blatt-never-stood-a-chance-with-lebron-james-and-his-camp-035612484.html
 

jon abbey

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Love how they included Blatt not being able to draw up plays during timeouts which is of course his biggest strength and what he's renown for on the coaching circuit. #anonymoussources
To be fair, Blatt was the guy who drew up a play that had LeBron inbounding the ball at the end of the biggest game of their season last year (down 2-1 to the Bulls and needing a 3 to tie). LBJ wisely ignored him, took the inbounds himself and hit a ridiculous 3, and the Cavs won the series instead of very likely losing it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Why is LeBron a bad guy for wanting his guy to coach his team? What superstar would accept playing for a guy he didn't want as his coach and/or hadn't earned his respect? This has been commonplace for decades in the league. It's a players and agents league.....more so now than ever.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Love how they included Blatt not being able to draw up plays during timeouts which is of course his biggest strength and what he's renown for on the coaching circuit. #anonymoussources
Blatt has been questioned for his play calling since he's been in Cleveland including the infamous playoff game when LeBron stopped him mid-sentence and called his own number like Bird used to do to KC Jones. This may have been a strength overseas but he's been in over his head in the NBA from Day One.

In his defense, Blatt was put in a ridiculously difficult position for a rookie coach who LeBron didn't appoint. He was set up to fail but certainly didn't help himself by cracking under pressure. That's how you lose your team.


Edit: Didn't mean to pile on jon abbey got in before me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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And how does that article have more bearing than the one you posted before it? Just people pushing an agenda and making Lebron and/or Blatt look as bad as possible.
 

Kliq

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Brendan Haywood basically said the opposite. That from day one Blatt was afraid to counter LeBron and lost the team's respect as a result.
I don't know if you read all ready but the Woj story is pretty interesting considering this topic.

Ultimately, Blatt had little staying power with the Cavaliers, because James had turned Blatt's removal into an inevitability. As the games wore on, opposing players on the floor weren't only watching James constantly wave off plays from the coach – but role players feeling emboldened to disregard the head coach's instructions, too.

James had the Cavaliers existing in open rebellion for over a season now, with no Pat Riley in the organizational shadows to scare everyone into compliance.
Outside of his own maximum contract, James and Klutch Sports could turn the Cavaliers into one of the loose slot machines across the street in Gilbert's casinos. It worked with client Tristan Thompson, whom they leveraged into a five-year, $82 million contract. Rival agents find themselves spending more time with clients who end up with the Cavaliers, if only because Rich Paul and his associates work to pilfer players for Klutch Sports, promising the power of James' influence in contract talks with the team.

So here's what's coming now: the trickle of stories on Blatt's incompetence, the fact that no one respected him, and maybe most of all, that James had nothing to do with his firing. For all the fairytales sold on James' return to Cleveland, this was forever about business – the kind of business they couldn't do within Riley's organization, nor Erik Spoelstra's locker room.
This sounds like a really suspicious story, but if any NBA writer can put his name on the byline and command reliability, it's Woj.
 

jon abbey

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LeBron should leave personnel decisions to other people after being the one to insist on the Love trade and now evidently wanting Mark Jackson as his coach. Those are catastrophic choices, luckily CLE management kept him from the latter one actally happening at least.
 

nighthob

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god damn, this does not paint Lebron in a good light


More at the link
Lebron IS a coach killer… And a horrible person
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-david-blatt-never-stood-a-chance-with-lebron-james-and-his-camp-035612484.html
Or Woj just can't let go after being burned by that awful ESPN special that James staged. The problem with Woj's hatchet job is that we have actual video footage of Blatt's inability to handle a veteran NBA team. So it's not like the stories he's trying to contradict are coming out of left field, we've watched this play out on TV and seen it in YouTube clips.

In part it wasn't Blatt's fault because he wasn't hired to coach a veteran NBA team. He was a Brad Stevens learn-on-the-job hire for a team full of young and marginal NBA players. And if he had ended up coaching the Irving/Wiggins/Thompson Cavs we'd probably be talking about him in a better light. Unfortunately for him those plans went out the window immediately and there he was a coach without any NBA pedigree asked to learn on the job and win a title.
 

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I wonder if Lebron the Agent realizes that he's hurting Lebron the Guy who Seeks a Championship for Cleveland by leveraging his position so as his clients get better contracts from Cleveland.
 

Three10toLeft

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Why is LeBron a bad guy for wanting his guy to coach his team? What superstar would accept playing for a guy he didn't want as his coach and/or hadn't earned his respect? This has been commonplace for decades in the league. It's a players and agents league.....more so now than ever.
If the defense for firing Blatt earlier in the thread is that DB should have known what he was getting in to with Lebron possibly returning to Cleveland, then Lebron should have made it clear to Cleveland from the get go that along with trading Wiggins for Love, he was also going to need full say with regards to who the next coach for the team was going to be. Cleveland hiring Blatt was a bit of shocker to the NBA world when it was announced. Do you not think that Cleveland could have waited a couple more weeks to find out what Lebron was going to do before pulling the trigger on hiring Blatt, if they had known in advance that Lebron was leaning towards returning? This is a testament to the dysfunction that seeps through the Cavaliers organization and the warped way Lebron and his cronies go about their business.

The fact that Lebron wants or wanted Mark Jackson to be the coach says everything you need to know about him. Lebron is a gifted, brilliant, idiot.

And instead of making due with Blatt and trying to cultivate a relationship with him in order to help Blatt grow in to an NBA head coach, Lebron was pissed that Lebron didn't have HIS guy. So instead of stepping up as a leader to try and bridge the gap for Blatt's shortcomings during his transition to the NBA, Lebron pretty much sabotaged him and made it a sheer inevitability that he would be fired.

It's beyond evident at this point that Lebron didn't come back to Cleveland so he could be the "savior" once again. The guy is an egomaniacal asshole. He loved the narrative of him coming back as the golden boy, once again to be loved and cherished, but he also wanted to basically run the organization in ways that would have never been an option in Miami or any other properly run franchise. These actions are what caused Lebron's relationship to sour with Pat Riley. Their were no way these underhanded moves could have been made with the Heat, and if the envelope was pushed, Riley would lay the hammer down and put a stop to it. Lebron has likened his experience in Miami as going to college, but apparently he learned nothing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Or Woj just can't let go after being burned by that awful ESPN special that James staged. The problem with Woj's hatchet job is that we have actual video footage of Blatt's inability to handle a veteran NBA team. So it's not like the stories he's trying to contradict are coming out of left field, we've watched this play out on TV and seen it in YouTube clips.

In part it wasn't Blatt's fault because he wasn't hired to coach a veteran NBA team. He was a Brad Stevens learn-on-the-job hire for a team full of young and marginal NBA players. And if he had ended up coaching the Irving/Wiggins/Thompson Cavs we'd probably be talking about him in a better light. Unfortunately for him those plans went out the window immediately and there he was a coach without any NBA pedigree asked to learn on the job and win a title.
Great post!
 

Three10toLeft

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Sabotaged him all the way to the NBA finals. It's beyond evident you are a hater.
Honestly.. I don't hate Lebron. He's more fascinating than anything else.

I wanted to see him succeed when he returned to Cleveland, especially for the sake of Cavs fans. I thought after Miami that he had actually matured a bit and was looking forward to seeing what he was going to do with the next stage of his career after he saw first hand how a winning organization operates during his time in Miami.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Both articles posted are interesting and they each seem as if they represent the opinion of someone with an axe to grind. In the end, it is all sound and fury signifying the Cavs championship hopes. LeBron isn't bringing a championship to the "Land" by getting up early, training hard while rapping PE with his blue collar fans or GM'ing the team along with Rich Paul. Instead, he has to get David Griffin to blow this thing up a bit.

Kevin Love has to go and frankly, if the imaginary trade proposed in the C's thread were ever on the table - Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder - he should jump at something like that. Those guys don't bridge the gap to a championship but they definitely close the gap between Cleveland and the Spurs and Warriors.
 

Kliq

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Thank god Cleveland owes something like $50 million to Thompson, Mosgov, Love and Varejao. I'm sure those guys will all come in handy when they play the Warriors and Draymond is their only real big on the floor.
 

E5 Yaz

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Kevin Love has to go and frankly, if the imaginary trade proposed in the C's thread were ever on the table - Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder - he should jump at something like that. Those guys don't bridge the gap to a championship but they definitely close the gap between Cleveland and the Spurs and Warriors.
Granted, I don't follow the NBA very closely, but would the Lakers be another possible spot for a Love trade?
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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I don't know if you read all ready but the Woj story is pretty interesting considering this topic.





This sounds like a really suspicious story, but if any NBA writer can put his name on the byline and command reliability, it's Woj.
Woj is as well known for ridiculous hatchet jobs as he is for breaking stories. Go back and read his weird, jealous take down of Hollinger for trading Rudy Gay from Memphis. He's got an agenda like everybody else. And a new website to make a name for.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Granted, I don't follow the NBA very closely, but would the Lakers be another possible spot for a Love trade?
The return on Love would need to be a better fit for the Cavs to win now. There isn't anyone on the Lakers who could help them that would make sense for Love.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Thank god Cleveland owes something like $50 million to Thompson, Mosgov, Love and Varejao. I'm sure those guys will all come in handy when they play the Warriors and Draymond is their only real big on the floor.
Yeah the Cavs kinda hamstrung themselves into building a team two summers ago to beat the Spurs, Clippers and Bulls while Golden State turned into the monsters that they have become. In fairness to them this was at a time when Curry wasn't Curry yet and coming off a season with multiple ankle injuries before Draymond became Draymond too.
 

Blacken

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Brendan Haywood basically said the opposite. That from day one Blatt was afraid to counter LeBron and lost the team's respect as a result.
This is what I'd put my money on. Spoelstra (with Riley's backing) ran the Heat when James was there. He consulted his guys, but he did not solicit direction from them.

I fully believe that James was not asked about this, too. They didn't need to ask. His people have been very clear that they're on Team Lue for a while now.

Thank god Cleveland owes something like $50 million to Thompson, Mosgov, Love and Varejao. I'm sure those guys will all come in handy when they play the Warriors and Draymond is their only real big on the floor.
Three of those four guys are tradable on those contracts (though Thompson won't go anywhere). I'd be surprised if Kevin Love stuck around past the next offseason, maybe not the end of this season, and only a little surprised if Mozgov gets moved this season.

Yeah the Cavs kinda hamstrung themselves into building a team two summers ago to beat the Spurs, Clippers and Bulls while Golden State turned into the monsters that they have become. In fairness to them this was at a time when Curry wasn't Curry yet and coming off a season with multiple ankle injuries before Draymond became Draymond too.
Agreed. Two years ago I was watching the Warriors and hopping on the bandwagon because they were fun. I thought they could be better (maybe a lot better) under a Not Mark Jackson coach. I don't think anybody anywhere thought they'd turn into the fucking nuclear death machines of the NBA. I literally can't think of a situation that parallels this in major American sports, where a team has gone from "yeah, pretty good" to "in the conversation for the best ever" in an eyeblink. And through player development, rather than a big free-agent splash; that's insane.
 

RedSoxinIsrael

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To be fair, Blatt was the guy who drew up a play that had LeBron inbounding the ball at the end of the biggest game of their season last year (down 2-1 to the Bulls and needing a 3 to tie). LBJ wisely ignored him, took the inbounds himself and hit a ridiculous 3, and the Cavs won the series instead of very likely losing it.
Nitpick, but it was a tie game and LeBron hit a 20 footer. Agree with your point, though.

Agree with most of the points in this thread, Blatt was hired to be the coach on an up-and-coming team, not a championship contender from day one. I think he did a fine job but in the end if he didn't have control of the locker room he had to go, I just found the timing to be a bit odd. I bet he gets another head coach job, perhaps on the Nets or Wolves.
 

AMS25

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LeBron should leave personnel decisions to other people after being the one to insist on the Love trade and now evidently wanting Mark Jackson as his coach. Those are catastrophic choices, luckily CLE management kept him from the latter one actally happening at least.
This series of events has made me even more appreciative of how Durant and Westbrook have handled the Billy Donavan hire. They really liked Scotty Brooks, but they've been willing to make a go of it with Donavan. Donavan hasn't been a miracle worker, but the team is working on a more fluid offense and fewer isos. Now, if only the team's defense were more consistent......
 

HomeRunBaker

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Driving home late last night NBA Radio had someone (from Cleveland) on to give an additional twist......I never caught the name thought.

(Paraphrasing) "Blatt lost this team from almost Day One. The Cavs won a tight game in early November the mood was great in the locker room and the players christened Blatt by lifting him up and celebrating the win as a welcoming into the league. Rather than go with the moment this infuriated Blatt in the locker room after the win. He layed into the team about how he's won over 1,000 games and how he was no rookie coach and that wasn't how he was going to be treated. The mood in the locker room suddenly changed and from that point on everything changed.

Contrary to what some are saying, this was NOT LeBron's call because if it was this move would have been done over the summer. Everyone knew his stance on the matter and he purposely distanced himself from the situation. Griffin wanted this to work and have it as much time as he could but in the end recognized that despite the W-L record that Blatt was not the right guy to lead the team."


Edit: Saw this link on CelticsNuts.com and it was Wyndhorst I heard at 5am about an hour after he wrote this story. He told it slightly different from the piece but here it is coming from probably the one guy most in tune with the Cleveland locker room on the reporter side.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14629892/nba-final-unraveling-david-blatt
 

Kliq

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Or the one guy who has the most to gain by apologizing for LeBron.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Or the one guy who has the most to gain by apologizing for LeBron.
So he lied about everything? This mirrors pretty much what Brenda Haywood said except with some specific details. If LeBron wanted Blatt gone he wouldn't have been there in training camp, period. This is coming from multiple places now and when the story is the same I'd tend to believe the specifics when they fit the storyline and aren't refuted by anyone.
 

Nick Kaufman

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So he lied about everything? This mirrors pretty much what Brenda Haywood said except with some specific details. If LeBron wanted Blatt gone he wouldn't have been there in training camp, period. This is coming from multiple places now and when the story is the same I'd tend to believe the specifics when they fit the storyline and aren't refuted by anyone.
WTF are you talking about? Since when do players become training camp holdouts until their coaches are fired?

Also, this is beyond unacceptable:

Shortly thereafter, James changed his role in the Cavs' offense and began playing point guard while moving Irving off the ball. In conjunction with the move, the Cavs, naturally, started moving away from the Princeton sets Blatt had installed during the preseason. James nonchalantly told the media he didn't consult Blatt on the changes.

"No, I can do it on my own," James said. "I'm past those days where I have to ask.
"
Also, this is unacceptable:
James spent much of the fourth quarter sitting in Blatt's seat on the bench and talking with Lue while Blatt stood a few feet away.
This whole notion that superstars want their choice of coaches to play may be true with some teams, but in all of the organizations I can think of in which the sum is greater than the parts the inmates aren't running the asylum. Instead there is a clear hierarchy, a coach who is in charge and an organizational philosophy which is respected.

This isn't to say that Blatt doesn't share any responsibility, he clearly does. The problem with Lebron is however that all the good will and respect he earns for being a great player, he diminishes when he tries to play coach, agent, GM.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Btw, did you guys see Blatt's statement? It's classy, but it can also be read as 100% sarcastic and it still makes sense.
I am very grateful to have had the opportunity to serve as the Head Coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers," Blatt wrote in a statement released by Priority Sports and Entertainment on Friday. "I'd like to thank Dan Gilbert and David Griffin for giving me this opportunity and am honored to have worked with an amazing group of players from LeBron James, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love through our entire roster.

"I'd also like to express my extreme gratitude to my coaching staff. I am indebted to them for their professionalism hard work, loyalty and friendship. I am proud of what we have accomplished since I have been the Head Coach and wish the Cavaliers nothing but the best this season and beyond."
 

HomeRunBaker

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WTF are you talking about? Since when do players become training camp holdouts until their coaches are fired?

Also, this is beyond unacceptable:



Also, this is unacceptable:


This whole notion that superstars want their choice of coaches to play may be true with some teams, but in all of the organizations I can think of in which the sum is greater than the parts the inmates aren't running the asylum. Instead there is a clear hierarchy, a coach who is in charge and an organizational philosophy which is respected.

This isn't to say that Blatt doesn't share any responsibility, he clearly does. The problem with Lebron is however that all the good will and respect he earns for being a great player, he diminishes when he tries to play coach, agent, GM.
When your coach is running onto the floor at the end of a playoff game screaming for a Timeout that they didn't have forcing you and your Asst Coach to virtually tackle him so he doesn't cost them the game maybe that player would feel the need to play coach. When the coach freezes you out of a last second shot to win a playoff game maybe the player who steps up and says "No, we're running this for ME!" is a leader who now loses respect for his coach.

When Larry Bird does this he's a leader......when LeBron does it he's a coach killer. When KC Jones it Larry's Assistant Coach it's ok......however a rookie coach like Blatt who has clearly struggled deserves to be granted respect? It's comical.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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When your coach is running onto the floor at the end of a playoff game screaming for a Timeout that they didn't have forcing you and your Asst Coach to virtually tackle him so he doesn't cost them the game maybe that player would feel the need to play coach. When the coach freezes you out of a last second shot to win a playoff game maybe the player who steps up and says "No, we're running this for ME!" is a leader who now loses respect for his coach.

When Larry Bird does this he's a leader......when LeBron does it he's a coach killer. When KC Jones it Larry's Assistant Coach it's ok......however a rookie coach like Blatt who has clearly struggled deserves to be granted respect? It's comical.
I am sorry, that doesn't fly. It's one thing to change a play in the heat of a crucial playoff game and ENTIRELY ANOTHER to decide on your own to scrap your coach's offensive scheme in the beginning of the (coach's debut) season without consulting him. If you want to argue that this is hanky dory, you can argue till you re blue in the face, but it doesn't make it right.

More to the point, I don't know what Blatt could have done right in this fundamental respect. The people who defend Lebron say it's a players' league. From the first moment, Lebron signaled that Blatt was unwelcome as his coach. Blatt chose to look the other way and swallow his pride as Lebron was disrespecting him in a multitude of ways while accommodating him by giving him free reign and not being on his case when he made mistakes. In doing so, he lost the respect of other players. But given that Lebron was giving him shit from the first moment, how would things have gone if Blatt decided to put his foot down and try to enforce order? I am not saying that Blatt couldn't have found a magic formula, but the truth of the matter is that just by Lebron's initial attitude, this was a situation in which the coach had to thread the needle. Only a very small number of experienced and frankly lucky coaches would have come out on top of such a situation.
 

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I am not saying that Blatt couldn't have found a magic formula, but the truth of the matter is that just by Lebron's initial attitude, this was a situation in which the coach had to thread the needle. Only a very small number of experienced and frankly lucky coaches would have come out on top of such a situation.
You are probably correct that not a lot - if any - coaches could make it work. Certainly Blatt wasn't up to the task for whatever reason and it's not really a surprise.

To me, however, is what makes anyone think that Tyronn Lue is going to be able to deal with the issues the Cavs have better than Blatt? Apparently - http://www.fearthesword.com/2016/1/23/10819872/tyronn-lue-says-kevin-love-will-get-used-more-at-the-elbow - one of the first things he is going to do is use Love at the elbow more. Seems like window dressing to me.
 

nighthob

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It means that they're going to be running more plays for Love to get him involved in the game. To me that seems evidence that the new guy actually understands the problems that the old guy created.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You are probably correct that not a lot - if any - coaches could make it work. Certainly Blatt wasn't up to the task for whatever reason and it's not really a surprise.

To me, however, is what makes anyone think that Tyronn Lue is going to be able to deal with the issues the Cavs have better than Blatt? Apparently - http://www.fearthesword.com/2016/1/23/10819872/tyronn-lue-says-kevin-love-will-get-used-more-at-the-elbow - one of the first things he is going to do is use Love at the elbow more. Seems like window dressing to me.
It's NBA Head Coaching.......there are only so many things he can control. There was uproar when Thibs was (correctly) let go because his presence was causing an uncomfortable environment. He was replaced and not much changed.....the Bulls are still an excellent defensive team winning at a similar rate factoring in the improved East with additions of Bosh, Melo, George, Reggie Jax, etc. The difference is that there is less drama. I don't expect much different to occur in Cleveland with the current roster. You are going to have issues with Love and Kyrie playing together and JR playing at all regardless of the coach.......at least with Tyronn there is less drama and he can handle the players in a way that Blatt could not so Griffin won't have to babysit in meetings to do his job for him.

It's a players league, a coach only controls so much but to create a good working environment and to not choke on his tongue in playoff games to lose his team. ;)

Had Thibs not lost his team he'd be employed today. Had Blatt not lost his he would as well. They were fired based on their own performance which doesn't always reflect in the teams as coaches simply don't affect Wins and Losses very much with certain exceptions (Thibs and Skiles can bring a team from 25 to 35 as well as anyone with their defense and discipline but it has a ceiling)......this is why most are paid like back end rotation or end of bench players. They don't affect results enough to value them any more than that.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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I am absolutely a LeBron hater so weigh this post with that in mind. I think it's fine to scrap a coaches play in the heat of game if you're the alpha and feel it's in the best interest of the team. It's another thing entirely to let the whole world know about it after the game in the way that he did. I found that to be appalling.
 

Tony C

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Sure...appalling...whatever. That doesn't take away from the fact that at his job LeBron is either the best or one of the top 2 players in the world at what he does. Does that make him a great guy or a coach killer or whatever...who cares: he's great at his job. David Blatt was lucky to have his job and, simply put, blew it. He didn't gain respect from his players. He didn't coach well in games. And didn't figure out ways to schematically make best use of the odd (but incredibly talented) assortment of players he inherited. Tough fucking shit if LeBron was an asshole: it's a coaches job to deal with assholes. If he can't, then that's his problem, as simple as that. We could all do these jobs given the right circumstances. I could be as great an NBA player as LeBron if the NBA was filled with 5th grade midgets. David Blatt can be a great coach in Israel. LeBron is a great player in the NBA as it exists. David Blatt fucking sucked as a coach in the NBA as it exists. So spare the fucking whining.
 

jon abbey

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HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, this isn't going to end well. Lue wants CLE to get into better shape midseason (quotes in the linked story below)? I don't think they have the right personnel to do that, and I think pushing to do that is more likely to end up with them not even making the Finals than it will with them winning a title.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14635206/cleveland-cavaliers-coach-tyronn-lue-says-team-not-good-enough-shape
You don't think an NBA team has the right personnel to improve their conditioning? There are ways for players to get into better shape without running them into the ground. A simple commitment and change in dietary habits assist in this.

Lue is bad for wanting a better conditioned and committed team.
Blatt is good for being ok with a poorly conditioned team.

That's kinda what it sounds like you're saying.
 

jon abbey

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No, I'm saying that is an approach that would make sense if he was taking over Minnesota, a team built around two young studs with nothing to play for this season. Cleveland is in a position where 1) their regular season results are close to irrelevant for the rest of the season, they'll almost certainly end up as the #1 seed in the East and the road team if they get to the Finals, 2) they're built around one crucial but aging player who will be better in the postseason the less that he has to play hard until then, and 3) one of their other two cornerstones is coming off knee surgery and certainly shouldn't be pushing it at full steam for another few months.

But really what I'm saying is that none of this matters until they trade Kevin Love. I don't think the coach matters until that happens, and this specific approach is more likely to end in failure (not making the Finals) than success (winning a title), IMO.
 

HomeRunBaker

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No, I'm saying that is an approach that would make sense if he was taking over Minnesota, a team built around two young studs with nothing to play for this season. Cleveland is in a position where 1) their regular season results are close to irrelevant for the rest of the season, they'll almost certainly end up as the #1 seed in the East and the road team if they get to the Finals, 2) they're built around one crucial but aging player who will be better in the postseason the less that he has to play hard until then, and 3) one of their other two cornerstones is coming off knee surgery and certainly shouldn't be pushing it at full steam for another few months.

But really what I'm saying is that none of this matters until they trade Kevin Love. I don't think the coach matters until that happens, and this specific approach is more likely to end in failure (not making the Finals) than success (winning a title), IMO.
Ok. I don't necessarily disagree with your last paragraph on Love. As far as the conditioning goes I interpreted that differently and feel it was more directed to how certain individual players are preparing and/or taking care of themselves off the court. From this time of the year to the end of the season there are very few practices that don't consist of shootarounds and half speed walkthroughs. The conditioning a player does from here on out is going to be on their own in the training room and how they plan their nutrition.
 

johnmd20

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No, I'm saying that is an approach that would make sense if he was taking over Minnesota, a team built around two young studs with nothing to play for this season. Cleveland is in a position where 1) their regular season results are close to irrelevant for the rest of the season, they'll almost certainly end up as the #1 seed in the East and the road team if they get to the Finals, 2) they're built around one crucial but aging player who will be better in the postseason the less that he has to play hard until then, and 3) one of their other two cornerstones is coming off knee surgery and certainly shouldn't be pushing it at full steam for another few months.

But really what I'm saying is that none of this matters until they trade Kevin Love. I don't think the coach matters until that happens, and this specific approach is more likely to end in failure (not making the Finals) than success (winning a title), IMO.
Come on, you're literally just making things up now. None of what you say has any basis in reality, it's just invented nothingness. He's not going to run Lebron into the ground. He's trying to improve the team.
 

reggiecleveland

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The crazy thing about NBA coaching is players will ignore one coach and listen to another about the same thing. Shaq has admitted Phil said the same things as Dallas Harris, but he listened to Phil.

I have heard Pat Riley speak a few times. He said said 90% of his job most of us could do, the other 10% was only part basketball and part political. He said he figured his ego made him ignore politics at the end in LA and underestimated how much Jerry West helped him in that respect. The last time I saw him was leading into the off season when LBJ would ultimately end up in Miami. His only comment was LeBron had smart people around him who understood the need for players, coach, front office to be on the same page, then added "but I was a lot older than LeBron when I forgot."