I imagine that Edro would have received instructions something like those given to Lester -- learn to pitch without using your cutter. In this case, however, Edro will have to earn his way back to the majors by throwing sliders, cutters and changeups, and laying off the fastball. He really needs a decent pitch slower than a 89 mph changeup, and the slider lacks movement, deception and command.Or it has nothing to do with the knee, in spite of the hunch of a message board poster. His velocity has been good the past two starts.
His secondary pitches are a huge problem, and I would imagine that's what he'll be working on.
Or it has nothing to do with the knee, in spite of the hunch of a message board poster. His velocity has been good the past two starts.
His secondary pitches are a huge problem, and I would imagine that's what he'll be working on.
Or it could be both.Or it has nothing to do with the knee, in spite of the hunch of a message board poster. His velocity has been good the past two starts.
His secondary pitches are a huge problem, and I would imagine that's what he'll be working on.
He probably should have fully developed a 3rd pitch too. Eck was commenting on it against Chicago, and eventually scouting will catch on and even a team like TB will shell you.Or it has nothing to do with the knee, in spite of the hunch of a message board poster. His velocity has been good the past two starts.
His secondary pitches are a huge problem, and I would imagine that's what he'll be working on.
And Clay also is having trouble pushing off and "pitching downhill" and not getting under his pitches. Add in Price's issues with his stride. Odd to hear of so many lower-body concerns with this year's staff.Or it could be both.
He still looks to me like there is very little push off with his lower body through his motion.
With off-days on the next two Thursdays, they can skip the fifth spot once through the rotation and the next time they need a fifth starter wouldn't be until at least Friday 7/8. They could, theoretically anyway, give Rodriguez's next start to Rodriguez. But that's assuming that he was sent down simply to get another fresh arm in the bullpen in the short term, and not for the more obvious reason that he's got some shit to work out before he steps on a major league mound again.I assume they're going to call up a reliever for the short term. Question is, who is going to get his next start? Joe Kelly?
Great so his velocity was back last two starts, but what about the previous 4? It is also fact that he changed his delivery for his last rehab start before being called to put less stress on the knee. Then after being shelled ended up changing his delivery again a few starts ago. While his velocity was finally better the last two starts his command was shit. Could be that he was overthrowing to increase velo and sacrificing command.Or it has nothing to do with the knee, in spite of the hunch of a message board poster. His velocity has been good the past two starts.
His secondary pitches are a huge problem, and I would imagine that's what he'll be working on.
Wilkerson is a really interesting story and his minor league numbers have been consistently good. I'd like to see him get a shot while Edro works things out for a while in AAA.Joe Kelly is injured. Say hello to Aaron Wilkerson... he is most likely the next man up.
Meh, this is too extreme. I certainly would not have done so when Erod put up a 110 ERA+ as a 22 year old starting pitcher last year.I'd take Andrew Miller back for Erod, thanks
this staff is toast. Again. So painful
I'd take Andrew Miller back for Erod, thanks
this staff is toast. Again. So painful
Yes there is...our coaching staff. Farrell and Willis need to go.They have not done a good job. IMO.Meh, this is too extreme. I certainly would not have done so when Erod put up a 110 ERA+ as a 22 year old starting pitcher last year.
He's very young. He has a lot of time to bounce back from this. Buchholz had to do the same thing in 2008-2009. No reason ERod can't as well.
So you preferred just losing Miller as a free agent without any compensation? Well then.I'd take Andrew Miller back for Erod, thanks
I agree with you, SJH. Rodriguez has a ton of ability and he's very young. I'm still bullish on him. But for now, he definitely needs to be in AAA working things out. The Sox don't have a ton of options at this point. Gotta hope that Price, Wright, and Porcello do what they're supposed to do, and that Clay somehow, some way, starts being at least a 6 ip, 3 r kind of guy, which wouldn't be great (4.50 era), but my goodness, it would be SO much better than what they've been getting lately.Meh, this is too extreme. I certainly would not have done so when Erod put up a 110 ERA+ as a 22 year old starting pitcher last year.
He's very young. He has a lot of time to bounce back from this. Buchholz had to do the same thing in 2008-2009. No reason ERod can't as well.
They could have easily ended up with BOTH OF THEM, folks. Could have signed Miller that winter and at a reasonable price.So you preferred just losing Miller as a free agent without any compensation? Well then.
He backed up a throw last night and stopped it from going into the Rays dugout. In the process I couldn't help but notice how completely awkward he looked in the process. Almost like he was scared of injuring a knee.I didn't see ERod in person last year, but when I saw him this year, he looked like he was landing really awkwardly and tentatively. I suppose this could be his natural tendency, but I tend to think the knee isn't completely healed, even if it is just mental with him at this point. I generally agree with the opinion that he was only pitching in Boston because they didn't have a lot of other options and there wasn't risk of increased injury.
or $2M more per annum than Koji is making? You pay up for quality, not average (see Panda and Hanely)$36 million for a non-closer reliever is generally considered crazy money. Maybe Miller was worth it, but I wouldn't call the price reasonable. Expensive, maybe.
They could have signed him but not at a reasonable price.They could have easily ended up with BOTH OF THEM, folks. Could have signed Miller that winter and at a reasonable price.
For four years. That's a long time, and a lot of money, and if he gets hurt you've wasted a lot of money.or $2M more per annum than Koji is making? You pay up for quality, not average (see Panda and Hanely)
That's why teams employ people called "scouts" and general managers are tasked with using something called "judgment" so that they don't make dumb decisions based on mindless computer algorithms. It's also why a qualified statistician would look at trends around that "one season" and also consider things like "splits," such as discounting significantly stats accumulated as a starting pitcherMiller had only had one year where his walk rate wasn't silly high when he was a free agent. Hindsight. Let it go.
The current version of Andrew Miller, who signed a four-year, $36 million dealwith the New York Yankees on Friday, is one of the best relievers in baseball. But do you really want to give a 29-year-old reliever who has had two good seasons a contract that runs twice that long?
Miller was the sixth overall pick in the 2006 draft, but he washed out as a starter due to poor command of his wipeout slider and the lack of a true third pitch, although the way the Detroit Tigers raced him to the majors couldn't have helped his development, either. The Boston Red Sox took a flier on him in 2012, put him in the bullpen full time and were patient with him while making some wholesale adjustments, such as having him work permanently from the stretch and reducing his leg kick. The conversion really paid off this past year; he started throwing both his fastball and slider for strikes more frequently, which was more a function of increased confidence than any mechanical changes for this season.
The Yankees are paying Miller to be most of that guy for four more years, and it's bloody unlikely he'll do that, in large part because very few relievers who've pitched at that high a level have maintained it for as long as three consecutive years, nevermind five. (At this point, some troll will bring up Mariano Rivera, and if you think Miller is the next Mo, I have some Panamanian real estate I'd like to sell you.) Relievers get hurt quite often, perhaps because pitching on consecutive days isn't the greatest thing for arm health, and their performance year to year is extremely volatile. Miller does miss a ridiculous number of bats, and as long as that, his most established skill to date, remains, he'll be a useful component in the Yankees pen, even if he doesn't appear superficially to be worth that money. It's a substantial financial bet he'll be better than that, maintaining this newfound control going forward despite the fact he had never showed it before last year.
In the same offseason they burned the equivalent amount of money for that season on Justin Masterson?They could have signed him but not at a reasonable price.
Actually not. Koji is 2/18M, so it is the same per year. This is why at the time, it never made sense to me to sign Koji and act like Miller was too expensive when you considered their relative ages. It is the rare free agent contract that is a good deal for the team, so I am certainly not going to state that at the time Miller's contract was a bargain. However, I would have much rather have a 30 yr old Miller at 4/36 M than a 40 yr old Koji at 2/18M. This is why I never understood the decision not to make a more concerted effort to sign Miller at the time.or $2M more per annum than Koji is making? You pay up for quality, not average (see Panda and Hanely)
This is a couple of weeks old but I haven't seen this for his most recent starts so this is all I have. This looks like more than two pitches to me. Was this game just out of the ordinary or am I missing something?He probably should have fully developed a 3rd pitch too. Eck was commenting on it against Chicago, and eventually scouting will catch on and even a team like TB will shell you.
Edro has been fiddling with his repertoire quite a lot from game to game over the last month. He hung around David Price for a few games, and all of a sudden he is throwing a cutter and a two-seamer, in addition to the fastball, changeup and slider. He certainly has the ability to throw those pitches, but apparently not to command them yet.This is a couple of weeks old but I haven't seen this for his most recent starts so this is all I have. This looks like more than two pitches to me. Was this game just out of the ordinary or am I missing something?
There is no choice between Miller and Rodriguez. Miller became a free agent and the Red Asia had every opportunity to sign him instead of Pablo Sandoval and Justin Masterson. It's all about priorities and decision making. They chose to spend a lot of money on a pitcher who's been terrible and an overweight declining 3B There were any number of ways to reallocate that $100 million.Before we declare the Miller for EdRod trade a failure in order to appease P91 and the rest of the anti-Cherington crowd, we should recall that Rodriguez did pitch to a 3.9 FIP last year at the age of 22. No GM or scout could have predicted that he would dislocate his knee on the first day of spring training. The injury could not have come at a worse with regards to his development.
If you actually know that Miller's team gave Cherington a chance to beat the Yankees' offer, and he declined, please share your source. I don't agree with those who say that 4/36 is crazy for a reliever of Miller's caliber -- yes, there's a pretty good chance of an overpay there, but also a decent chance of a bargain, and the overall risk is low. But unless you know something the rest of us don't, you can't say with any certainty that Cherington had, and whiffed on, a chance to land Miller for that price. All we know for sure is that they didn't and the Yankees did.There is no choice between Miller and Rodriguez. Miller became a free agent and the Red Asia had every opportunity to sign him instead of Pablo Sandoval and Justin Masterson.
So you're saying you need a definitive quote from a trusted and reliable source (IE: either Miller or Cherington themselves, since everything else out there would include a degree of assumption,) to buy the argument that Boston had a chance to sign Miller and didn't? You do realize how inflexible and impossible that is, right?If you actually know that Miller's team gave Cherington a chance to beat the Yankees' offer, and he declined, please share your source. I don't agree with those who say that 4/36 is crazy for a reliever of Miller's caliber -- yes, there's a pretty good chance of an overpay there, but also a decent chance of a bargain, and the overall risk is low. But unless you know something the rest of us don't, you can't say with any certainty that Cherington had, and whiffed on, a chance to land Miller for that price. All we know for sure is that they didn't and the Yankees did.
Wait, who does Keith Law hate again?I doubt you'll find many people who thought the Yankees got a bargain when they signed Miller. Here's what Keith Law said:
I can't make sense of this. "Wasn't on the table at all at any point for that money?" What does that even mean?So you're saying you need a definitive quote from a trusted and reliable source (IE: either Miller or Cherington themselves, since everything else out there would include a degree of assumption,) to buy the argument that Boston had a chance to sign Miller and didn't? You do realize how inflexible and impossible that is, right?
In a calendar year where a literal truckload of money was burned on Castillo, Sandoval, Ramirez, and Masterson (among a couple others, like Breslow and Koji,) I'd say it's more ridiculous to imply Miller wasn't on the table at all at any point for that money and to demand a source to believe otherwise.
Note that nowhere in there does he say "I went back to the Sox after the Yankees made their offer, and gave them a chance to beat it, and they declined." Maybe he wouldn't have thought that an appropriate thing to disclose, but the fact that he might not have said it even if it was true is not evidence that it's true.“They were in it. I know it’s hard for everybody to keep straight what it was, but they made a heck of a run at it. It just so happened that I had a better offer here and it’s something that fit me better I thought.
"Hindsight is always 20-20, so you can talk about it later, but it wasn’t for lack of effort or them making a bad offer. They certainly made an impressive offer. If I had taken it, it certainly wouldn’t have looked bad for me. This [the Yankees' offer] seemed like a better fit, with the total package.”
That Miller quote is fanservice and nothing more, he's appeasing to both sides. You don't know anything of the actual negotiations, and Miller would have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by throwing the actual exact details out there.I can't make sense of this. "Wasn't on the table at all at any point for that money?" What does that even mean?
Here's an article with some relevant quotes:
Andrew Miller: Boston Red Sox Made An ‘Impressive Offer’ In Free Agency
Note that nowhere in there does he say "I went back to the Sox after the Yankees made their offer, and gave them a chance to beat it, and they declined." Maybe he wouldn't have thought that an appropriate thing to disclose, but the fact that he might not have said it even if it was true is not evidence that it's true.
We know that the Yankees made a better offer for Miller than we did. That's all we know. How you go from that to "we had every opportunity to sign him" baffles me. We had an opportunity to sign him in the sense that his team wasn't refusing to listen to us. But P91's language suggests that Miller was basically saying "if I get a good offer from you guys, I'll sign, so what are you waiting for?" and we sat on our hands. Which is nonsense.
I wasn't the one who brought up Miller, check your thread.Ooh look, P91 is fapping to Andew Miller again. How quaint.
This thread actually about the 23 year old starting pitcher we got for him, and how he can be turned around to resemble the guy he was for the Red Sox last year.
That's also a way to make terrible, terrible decisions. It means you'd have to trust that your decision makers/information team is way smarter than everyone else, which...I don't know. I'm not sure I think that.You get ahead by identifying the exceptions, not by playing the averages.