Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

Bruce Allen with a very interesting article on BSMW breaking down the "Felger and Mazz vs. "Big Show" ratings:"

"Men 25-54, Mon-Fri 3-7 pm.
Week One Week Two Week Three Week Four
6.6 8.4 6.7 6.6 WEEI
5.7 8.4 7.4 5.9 98.5
Men 18-34, Mon-Fri, 3-7 pm.
Week One Week Two Week Three Week Four
3.1 3.6 4.2 4.4 WEEI
7.9 10.5 10.7 10.0 98.5
Men 18-49, Mon-Fri, 3-7 pm.
Week One Week Two Week Three Week Four
5.6 7.0 6.0 5.7 WEEI
5.9 9.1 8.5 7.0 98.5
So what do we see from these? It seems pretty clear that the younger audience was listening to Felger and Mazz. It’s not even close in the 18-34 demo.
We’ll concede the younger audience to 98.5 across the month. Let’s focus on 25-54 and why WEEI won this month, and this ratings period for the time slot of 3-7 pm.
WEEI won the month of June in the 25-54 demo 7.1 to 6.8.
You also see that in weeks 2 and 3 of that same demo, 98.5 tied and beat WEEI for the time period of May31st to June 13th. The Celtics/Heat series went on from May 28th to June 9th, and so Celtics discussion was at an all-time high during those two weeks.
But Felger and Mazz beat and tied The Big Show during the biggest two weeks of basketball talk. WEEI won the month by winning weeks one and four. So was Felger’s Celtics-bashing as big a turn-off as it might appear by looking at the entire month?
Did something different happen in weeks one and four?
Yes. Red Sox day games." - http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2012/07/was-it-the-celtics-or-the-red-sox-that-killed-felger-and-mazz.

The article goes into greater detail about the affect Red Sox day games had on the ratings, but it does look like that was a far greater reason for Felger and Mazz's drop in the spring ratings than Celtics talk. Which disappointing to me, because like others, I think the show was crap this spring and would've liked to see the ratings really reflect that.

lostjumper said:

We can hope this signals the end of Wiggy tuesdays... I have stopped listening to F&M for allthe reasons already stated in the thread. Hopefully they will improve and cut the stupid negativity when none is warranted.

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Maybe they'll can Gresh while they're at it. As mentioned above, this is good news for radio listeners.

Edit: Misread the ratings report, but still would like Gresh gone.

NickEsasky said:

I didn't mean it had anything to do with the actual broadcasts. The Celtics were still playing and Felger hates the Celtics, so if you wanted good C's talk you had to switch to EEI. If it was the B's making the run people would have switched to TSH. Hell Felger made his bed with the Celtics stuff and in the last book he now has to lie in it. My point was strictly that each afternoon show has a certain leaning sports-wise. Once Patriots season starts, I assume many will switch back to TSH because of the Big Show's blind homerism for the Pats.

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I wouldn't bet the house on that one. Felger pissed off a lot of people big time this spring with his maniacal, irrational rants about the Celts and the NBA. Follow that up with a summer of the the Red Sox sucking big-time (and his Texas tough guy incessant BS) and I doubt people will be flocking to listen to Felger with his contrived anti-Patriots propaganda which is the mirror immage of WEEI's "blind homerism" for the Patriots. Ordway blows, but Felger is teetering on the precipice of irrelevance and he'd better be careful.

Jackson said:

I wouldn't bet the house on that one. Felger pissed off a lot of people big time this spring with his maniacal, irrational rants about the Celts and the NBA. Follow that up with a summer of the the Red Sox sucking big-time (and his Texas tough guy incessant BS) and I doubt people will be flocking to listen to Felger with his contrived anti-Patriots propaganda which is the mirror immage of WEEI's "blind homerism" for the Patriots. Ordway blows, but Felger is teetering on the precipice of irrelevance and he'd better be careful.

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Irrelevant? Are you kidding me? He's the biggest sports media presence in this town, and I wouldn't even have a clue as to who might be second. He has a daily radio show, which is simulcasted on NESN, then has a daily television show on Comcast Sports Net. This is the first time in a year and a half his radio show wasn't #1, and I would guess its due in large part to the Celtics deep run that coincided with the Bruins implosion.

Rocco Graziosa said:

Irrelevant? Are you kidding me? He's the biggest sports media presence in this town, and I wouldn't even have a clue as to who might be second. He has a daily radio show, which is simulcasted on NESN, then has a daily television show on Comcast Sports Net. This is the first time in a year and a half his radio show wasn't #1, and I would guess its due in large part to the Celtics deep run that coincided with the Bruins implosion.

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Or Red Sox day games.

Rocco Graziosa said:

Irrelevant? Are you kidding me? He's the biggest sports media presence in this town, and I wouldn't even have a clue as to who might be second. He has a daily radio show, which is simulcasted on NESN, then has a daily television show on Comcast Sports Net. This is the first time in a year and a half his radio show wasn't #1, and I would guess its due in large part to the Celtics deep run that coincided with the Bruins implosion.

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Wow. Bad time of the month?

Adding fuel to the Mazz is lazy fire, He went on for a few minutes today about how happy he was to be out of the A-Hole chair and just sneak on by in the B-Hole chair including not worrying about timing, slacking off and playing on the Internet. Said he likes it a lot better cause its a lot easier.

[quote name='Darnell's Son' timestamp='1342154220' post='4233369']
Imagine, for a moment, a world, where the Red Sox go on a crazy run and win the AL East with no major changes, except for the Texas Tough Guy and Jon Lester going crazy and carrying this team. What will these two hacks say?
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And moon fairies come down and grant us all pink unicorns to gallivant around the plains.

The endless criticism of the Red Sox is tiring, but can you blame them? Their points are largely accurate. Ownership doesn't get it, and many of the core players don't get it as well.

F&M have no problem saying they're wrong, at least compared to Ordway.

[quote name='Darnell's Son' timestamp='1342154220' post='4233369']
A station cannot also just constantly degrade the Red Sox. The worst thing that could happen for 98.5 is if the Red Sox made a run at the World Series. Imagine, for a moment, a world, where the Red Sox go on a crazy run and win the AL East with no major changes, except for the Texas Tough Guy and Jon Lester going crazy and carrying this team. What will these two hacks say?
[/quote]


In the highly unlikely scenario that happens, here is what they would sound like:

Felger: “It’s about time Beckett and Lester performed at this level, Tony. We all know how good they are, which is why I think Beckett is such a FRAUD. Where was this last September when the season was going down the toilet? Beckett went years without finishing strongly, with that “Texas Tough Guy” attitude, and now out of nowhere he’s pitching well. Why is that? How come nobody in the BBWAA asks that question, Mazz? Where was this last September?”

Mazz: “Look, Mike, when these kinds of things happen…”

Felger: “I mean, we’re just supposed to believe that Beckett suddenly decided to pitch better? That something went off in his head? Where was this last September? Oh, that’s right, he was chugging fried chicken in the dugout! That FRAUD. What a FRAUD.”

Mazz: “Obviously, Mike! Listen, I haven’t forgotten about last September…”

Felger: “Is it because Beckett decided to…AHEM, AHEM…”train differently?” You know how some guys “learn power,” Beetle. There’s something wrong with that core. I picked them to make the playoffs while the BBWAA was making excuses for them, because I know how good they are. People say, “You suck Felger, go back to Wisconsin.” But I expected this to happen.

Mazz: “Of course, Mike! There’s no doubt about the talent there!”

Felger: “But they decided to coast for a full season, and then just decided to finally play winning baseball. And we’re supposed to accept that? We’re supposed to accept a second wild card birth, Mazz? Is that what the goal is? Because if you listened to the BBWAA, you’d think this team just won the World Series! It’s like the “Green Teamers” with the Celtics. They beat the Atlanta FLIPPIN’ Hawks, and the 76ers, who SUCK. And over at Comcast, you would’ve thought this team just raised banner number 18! Unbelievable.”

The last time Felger said something intelligent about baseball was when he was campaigning for Victor Martinez to catch over Jason Varitek in August and September of 2009. Since then, the baseball “analysis” on “Felger and Mazz” has consisted of lamenting the loss of Teixeira, calling ownership cheap, and for the past two seasons, picking through every quote and sound byte for the sake of rumor mongering. All points, by the way, that certainly have a lot of credence to them. But there is absolutely no attempt to expand the conversation past the basic talking points.

Slow clap, well done sir.

Felger, Bertrand, all the callers just destroying Larry Lucchino today, quite hilarious.

SoxScout said:

Felger, Bertrand, all the callers just destroying Larry Lucchino today, quite hilarious.

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That letter sent out to the STH's was a complete joke. It's an insult to people's intelligence that invest a ton of money in the Red Sox. Number of bronze plaques? This management team is living so far from reality it's mind-numbing.

Yeah, I think Lucchino should have called Beckett the Texas Tough Guy and threatened to fire Bobby V if they don't win the next 5 games.

I'm not sure there's much intelligence to insult in this town.

Phenom said:

In the highly unlikely scenario that happens, here is what they would sound like:

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That is absolutely perfect. Kudos Phenom.

BannedbyNYYFans.com said:

That is absolutely perfect. Kudos Phenom.

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Ironically the kudos Phenom gets for his posts are part in parcel why the show is so popular. Even if he is accentuating the negative. People tune in to hear what Felger has to say.......they just do. He has an OPINION. They tune in when he's right and, my guess, is they tune in even more often when he's wrong.

The fact that, unlike Ordway (or really any other high profile media guy in Boston) he offers up a mea culpa when he's wrong is the cornerstone of why he's so popular.

[quote name='Darnell's Son' timestamp='1342241265' post='4235524']
'
I agree that people tune in to hear Felger's take on stuff, and I also agree that it has a lot to do that the dunces at EEI don't have a serious take on anything. I do wonder, however, if Felger's constant predictiveness(word?) gets on the overall listeners' collective nerve. Phenom's posts are why I hardly listen to these guys anymore.I know what Felger will think and say about pretty much everything after it happens. To me, he's just not that interesting anymore. He doesn't allow for intelligent discussion about sports(see: his hatred for X's and O's), and anytime a guy turns something around he goes to a few reasons why(I.e. "ahem" training methods, contract year, or now he cares).

I really think it will be interesting to see what happens come football season. If Felger is railing against BB because he hasn't won a Superbowl in eons, will fans finally be sick of it? He has interesting opinions, but the more he spouts off, the less I'm convinced any of those opinions are backed up by anything more than ratings whoring schtick.
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My guess is that Felger has a bit of a Howard Stern thing going on in Boston. From Private Parts:

Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes a day. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes. Kenny: How could this be? Researcher: Answer most commonly given: "I want to see what he'll say next." Kenny: : All right, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern? Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day. Kenny: : But... if they hate him, why do they listen? Researcher: Most common answer: "I want to see what he'll say next."

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And like Stern there is a genuine aspect to Felgers schtick that is appealing to the masses. They believe, like I do, that he BELIEVES most of what he says. Be it Randy Moss, Brett Farvre or airlines.........he's telling you what he thinks. If it wasn't genuine people would run from the show.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty confident I'm not.

Edit: In full disclosure, I'm a huge fan of both Howard Stern and Mike and the Mad Dog. IMO Felger is dipping into the blueprint of both Stern and Mad Dog........and up til recently its worked fantastically. The fact that he's been able to dominate the Boston media landscape with such a weak colleague as Mazz is a testament to his talent and approach to this medium.

You really didn't need to quote a movie, we all understand the concept of trolling.

John Marzano Olympic Hero said:

At this point I can confidently say that Phenom is really Michael Felger and he's trying his schtick on us first.

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Or a man who just has too much time on his hands. One or the other.

But as others have mentioned, the show's repetitive nature makes writing the parodies so easy. Maybe it's too much to ask for the same two people to not be predictable after a while. They're talking about sports, their opinions don't have to be all that nuanced.

But I don't know, it doesn't seem like a good thing that the audience can usually predict what Felger and Mazz will say 95% of the time. Also, though Felger isn't a fence-sitter like Ordway is, he couches his opinions so he can keep the outrage going.

For example, at the end of every Red Sox discussion, Felger always says, "Still, it wouldn't surprise me if this team went on a run and won 90 games. The talent is there." Therefore, the ranting can continue throughout the season. If Felger declared the starting rotation simply isn't good enough, and this isn't a playoff team (like others did at the start of the year), there wouldn't be much to get riled up over if the club struggled.

It's a common theme on the show. The two could spend 4 hours bashing everything about the Patriots and Belichick's drafting methods, and then at the end of the program, Felger will proclaim, "But, they're the Patriots, and I still expect them to win the Super Bowl." It's a calculated method to keep expectations high. So when a team wins, it's expected, and when a team loses, it's time to pounce.

[quote name='Darnell's Son' timestamp='1342242296' post='4235535']
I get it. I hate it, but I get it. It's shit radio to me, which is why I won't listen to it. Maybe Felger will be the Boston Sports' Stern, but I find it boring. I'll tune in every time I'm driving, because I love Boston sports and then tune to WEEI and then to NPR or music, such is life.

Agree to disagree that he believes everything he says though. It's pure shtick and he knows it will rankle Boston fans. He knows the buttons to push, but he doesn't believe everything he says, and if he does, then he knows absolute dick about sports and is a dumbass, and I don't believe he's a dumbass, hence, it's pure shtick.
[/quote]I don't like Feger obviously because I really think he's a phony who has people buffaloed. But the most ridiculous claim about Felger ever is that he never says anything he doesn't believe. That's pure, unadulterated bull-shit. Fact, not opinion...

Jackson said:

I don't like Feger obviously because I really think he's a phony who has people buffaloed. But the most ridiculous claim about Felger ever is that he never says anything he doesn't believe. That's pure, unadulterated bull-shit. Fact, not opinion...

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Ok, I'll bite. How could you possibly know this for a fact?

I find it hard to believe that he actually likes and respects Brett Favre. Thinks the airline system in the United States is efficient and a pleasant experience. He actually thinks Randy Moss is a good teamatte and positive locker room presence, or that Josh Becket is a team player who's tough, prepares hard in the offseason and is an overall positive influence on the Red Sox. And that the NBA is actually a well run sports league and and the officiating is fair and balanced. (among his MANY views on a billion subjects)

I suppose its possible........but wouldn't know one way or another, I just have an OPINION about it. Which is, although I'm sure he presents his arguments in a grandiose fashion for entertainment value (the only reason a radio show exist) I think he says whats on his mind. Some of it I agree with, other stuff I don't, but most of the time its entertaining........to me. When its not, like when he gets lazy and just beats a particular opinon into the ground (see Becket, Josh) then I just don't listen.

Rocco Graziosa said:

Ok, I'll bite. How could you possibly know this for a fact?

I find it hard to believe that he actually likes and respects Brett Favre. Thinks the airline system in the United States is efficient and a pleasant experience. He actually thinks Randy Moss is a good teamatte and positive locker room presence, or that Josh Becket is a team player who's tough, prepares hard in the offseason and is an overall positive influence on the Red Sox. And that the NBA is actually a well run sports league and and the officiating is fair and balanced. (among his MANY views on a billion subjects)

I suppose its possible........but wouldn't know one way or another, I just have an OPINION about it. Which is, although I'm sure he presents his arguments in a grandiose fashion for entertainment value (the only reason a radio show exist) I think he says whats on his mind. Some of it I agree with, other stuff I don't, but most of the time its entertaining........to me. When its not, like when he gets lazy and just beats a particular opinon into the ground (see Becket, Josh) then I just don't listen.

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Rocco Graziosa said:

Ok, I'll bite. How could you possibly know this for a fact?

I find it hard to believe that he actually likes and respects Brett Favre. Thinks the airline system in the United States is efficient and a pleasant experience. He actually thinks Randy Moss is a good teamatte and positive locker room presence, or that Josh Becket is a team player who's tough, prepares hard in the offseason and is an overall positive influence on the Red Sox. And that the NBA is actually a well run sports league and and the officiating is fair and balanced. (among his MANY views on a billion subjects)

I suppose its possible........but wouldn't know one way or another, I just have an OPINION about it. Which is, although I'm sure he presents his arguments in a grandiose fashion for entertainment value (the only reason a radio show exist) I think he says whats on his mind. Some of it I agree with, other stuff I don't, but most of the time its entertaining........to me. When its not, like when he gets lazy and just beats a particular opinon into the ground (see Becket, Josh) then I just don't listen.

Rocco Graziosa said:

Ok, I'll bite. How could you possibly know this for a fact?

I find it hard to believe that he actually likes and respects Brett Favre. Thinks the airline system in the United States is efficient and a pleasant experience. He actually thinks Randy Moss is a good teamatte and positive locker room presence, or that Josh Becket is a team player who's tough, prepares hard in the offseason and is an overall positive influence on the Red Sox. And that the NBA is actually a well run sports league and and the officiating is fair and balanced. (among his MANY views on a billion subjects)

I suppose its possible........but wouldn't know one way or another, I just have an OPINION about it. Which is, although I'm sure he presents his arguments in a grandiose fashion for entertainment value (the only reason a radio show exist) I think he says whats on his mind. Some of it I agree with, other stuff I don't, but most of the time its entertaining........to me. When its not, like when he gets lazy and just beats a particular opinon into the ground (see Becket, Josh) then I just don't listen.

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And if I piss you off that much, just don't read what I have to say. Look, the guy's a major-league douche, most people know it and he's guilty of the worst offense possible - being a purposely disingenuous dink. I don't know what else to tell you. I know loads of people who just chuckle whenever his name comes up - and those are his family members.

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URI said:

No, the worst offense possible in his line of work is being boring.

Which is kind of the point.

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And he's become boring to the point of absurdity. Everyone knows exactly what his response to every issue is going to be. He's more predictable than any radio personality anywhere. Everyone just yawns and thinks, "Yeah, I know what Felger's going to say." He's a bloodless, boring drone.

URI said:

Well you know objectively that isn't true. If it were, then he wouldn't be the biggest sports media personality in Boston.

Don't project your own feelings for Mike Felger to "everyone"...it makes you look unhinged.

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What's appears "unhinged" is the obsessive hero-worship attributed to a fucking radio/TV guy who laughs every time a guy like me shits on him or guys like you want to blow him. For God's sake, he's a fucking sports commentator. Lighten the fuck up...

URI said:

No, but you aren't understanding what I'm saying. It makes him omnipresent in Boston. He will remain as long as people tune in...if he was boring, people would stop tuning in and he would fade away.

This shouldn't be a hard economic concept to grasp..I mean, I'm talking about one step beyond the first act on an old Treehouse of Horror episode here.



I don't listen to Felger and Mazz, don't watch the telecast of that show, don't watch Comcast SportsNet, and I don't live in Boston's media market.

If Mike Felger disappeared from the Earth, my life would literally not be affected one bit.

So tell me, who needs to lighten up...the guy shitting all over himself because he hates Felger, or the guy who is mildly amused watching a guy shit all over himself on the internet because he doesn't grasp some really simple truths. The chief one being that Mike Felger is popular, so he's not going away, no matter how boring or awful you think he is.

But yeah, let "Felgy" drink your hate up. He laughs at that you know.

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Methinks thee doth protest too much.

Mazz was at his most idiotic during the discussion about Crawford. A caller called and said with Ells & Crawford at 1 and 2 they could steal 120 bases combined. "Who the hell cares?? These people think fantasy stats matter... do we count singles?"
Then later (during the baseball reporters)he blamed having slow players hitting in font of Crawford last season as part of his struggles and an example of his misuse as it didn't allow him to use his legs.

Also when clamoring for the Ramirez trade to happen...
Felger: Crawford is a good ballplayer but not worth 20 million and Ramirez has been pretty poor this season and last"
Mazz: I dont care, if i'm gonna pay someone more than they're worth, I want home runs.
Felger: he's hitting .249 this season, he hit .243 last year
Mazz: And he'll end up with 25 home runs and 90 RBI. Mark Teixiera is hitting .250 and has 18 home runs and 60 RBI

The fact that he also thinks Hanley could be an average SS defensively at this point also shows he has no idea what he is talking about. Mazz probably hasn't watched an actual baseball game in 4 years so he probably still thinks Hanley is an elite player offensively and a serviceable defensive SS.

Well, to be fair, they apparently live in an imaginary world where they can read other people's minds, so it's possible that Hanley's an adequate defensive SS in that world, too.

I used to think Mazz knew what the hell he was talking about when it came to baseball.....but lately he has just completely lost it. Every point he makes sounds completely absurd and makes no sense whatsoever.

HomeBrew1901 said:

Jumped in my car to head to Dunkins, Felger and Mazz bitching about Becket and Lester again, WTF... Then Mazz was still trying to defend his 120 stolen bases don't mean anything comment. I used to blame Mazz but I'm starting to think it is management not having the stones or pull to get these two to have a better show.

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I'm pretty much the least knowledgeable baseball guy on this site, but reading the main board here I was always under the assumption that stolen bases were incredibly over rated. Is that incorrect?

Any time these guys are talking baseball I'm not listening. So I pretty much don't listen in the summer.

Mazz's argument is McCarver-esque - he thinks OPS is the end-all-be-all of statistical measures, and as such, prefers home run hitters to stolen bases. He then poorly phrases this argument so that it becomes a debate about whether stolen bases are valuable. In the binary world of sports talk radio, stolen bases can't be "useful" - they are good or bad. And compared to home runs, they are bad, because a stolen base doesn't contribute to OPS.

It's a mind-numbingly stupid argument and would never show up in a written column. In a written column, Mazz would explain the success rate value to SB, the importance of getting on base, the value of power when compared to speed. It would probably make sense. On radio? It sounds dumb and gets dumber with each mention.

I hate Mazz so I'm probably nitpicking but today was the third time I heard him say about Lester, "He comes from a good family, he comes from a good part of the country, so I still have faith in him". I'm paraphrasing except for the bolded part. Who fucking cares where Lester is from? Would Tony like him less if Lester was from rural Texas town or a crime ridden area like the Fifth Ward in Houston?