Maybe, but his age isn't a great fit, and he'll have a lot of interest out there. Julius Randle makes a lot more sense if the target is going to be a big.If Horford leaves, is Vucevic someone the Celtics should be targeting? He's still only entering his age 29 season, averaged 21 and 12 last year with 4 assists.
I am not sure he will have much interest though. Not that I am in favor of making a move for him. I struggle to see a team who will throw good money at himMaybe, but his age isn't a great fit, and he'll have a lot of interest out there.
Presumably the Clippers interest would be tied to a Kawhi signing, and if Al is expecting something like 4/120, the Clips will definitely need to lose Gallinari’s salary in order to fill in around Leonard & Horford.It will be interesting to see from future leaks if Horford has a team with cap space picked out, or just knows he wants 4 years and a contender.
If the former, not much the Celtics can do.
If the latter, there are some interesting trade options:
Houston in a deal featuring Capela?
Clippers (what is coming back? Shamet? Robinson? Harrell? It would probably depend on how much cap they need to save
Bucks? -maybe a double S&T with Brogdan and us eating Snell's contract
Boston’s kids can probably teach Vuvecic what it takes to win in the postseason.If Horford leaves, is Vucevic someone the Celtics should be targeting? He's still only entering his age 29 season, averaged 21 and 12 last year with 4 assists.
Clippers have a ton of space, if they sign Kawhi, they'll only need to shed 6-10M depending on exactly how much they give Al, so Harrell's 6M might be enough on it's own, otherwise Shamet makes about 2, or Robinson who makes about 4 would need to be added.Presumably the Clippers interest would be tied to a Kawhi signing, and if Al is expecting something like 4/120, the Clips will definitely need to lose Gallinari’s salary in order to fill in around Leonard & Horford.
I don't have the numbers in front of me but Isaiah may have been the worst OFFENSIVE player in the league over the last two seasons as well as the worst defensively. I get the sentiment but the poor guy hasn't been close to a competent NBA player in either of the last two years.I will say this - if this Horford story is correct and he is gone, I fully expect the Celtics to be more closely linked with return of Thomas.
As HRB and others have noted, he may well be physically unable to even provide even league-average offense let alone negligible defense. However if he is still capable of generating some offense, he gives Ainge a low cost option - assuming he is still pining to play in Boston - to sop up some minutes and also provide some fan service as the Celtics retool again.
I know there are quite a few folks who are against his return and he may well be cooked. However he checks a lot of boxes for a team looking for an inexpensive (no Brinks truck here), low commitment way to get some potential scoring.
I understand that - the data supports your view. Just don't be surprised if Thomas and the Celtics are linked given the circumstances. He may well be done but then again, the tiny thorn in your side could come back too given the cost and the risk/reward.I don't have the numbers in front of me but Isaiah may have been the worst OFFENSIVE player in the league over the last two seasons as well as the worst defensively. I get the sentiment but the poor guy hasn't been close to a competent NBA player in either of the last two years.
Interesting choice for someone the writers are saying is leaving because he wants another shot at a ring.Russillo on SC said even Dallas is in play for Horford.
I think @stevebhoop is a good follow at this point. He's plugged in with Celtics.Is there a good source that list what is possible or do I have to wait for Woj bombs (Woj does not seem to have a source at the Celtics).
I mean, if you want to stealth tank, you could do a lot worse...I will say this - if this Horford story is correct and he is gone, I fully expect the Celtics to be more closely linked with return of Thomas.
As HRB and others have noted, he may well be physically unable to even provide even league-average offense let alone negligible defense. However if he is still capable of generating some offense, he gives Ainge a low cost option - assuming he is still pining to play in Boston - to sop up some minutes and also provide some fan service as the Celtics retool again.
I know there are quite a few folks who are against his return and he may well be cooked. However he checks a lot of boxes for a team looking for an inexpensive (no Brinks truck here), low commitment way to get some potential scoring.
The issue for me is that most of the variance with Paul is bad. With Hayward being a lot younger, there are a lot of scenarios in which things turn out better. The shorter contract and lower money in Hayward's case also caps the downside a LOT more, which is critical in high-variance scenario planning.I have a lot more faith in Chris Paul's ability to add value for a team over the next couple years than Hayward's, and he fills a need for the Celtics more clearly (and keeps them from needing to sign Rozier).
Paul is overpaid, but is still a good NBA player. Hayward is a question mark at best. I don't know which contract is worse by itself, but given Paul fills a need, and the Celtics are probably over the cap for the foreseeable future regardless, I'd rather roll with Paul.
Reasonable minds can differ.
This is where I am. I'm willing to give him a pass for last year's dismal defense and questionable shot selection as contract year misbehavior. And his ball handling box is fully checked as competent. But his vision and playmaking for others is pathologically bad. He gets assists because he touches the ball, but the next easy basket that he gets for someone else will be the first. Not ideal for a team with a gaggle of young guys.Rozier is simply not a good enough passer to take the reins long-term if we are losing Horford. The guy can barely execute the most basic of pick and pops because he lacks vision and is terrible at creating good angles. With Brown and Tatum still developing their passing, that is a recipe for trouble, and I don't think there should be any interest in locking up potential cap space to bring him back for a long-term deal.
Well, I agree given the Horford situation, I'd rather not make such a move.Finally, now that Horford looks like he's gone (which, to be fair, you didn't know yesterday, but that actually makes my variance/unpredictability point), the cap number absolutely matters. This is actually a great illustration of how unknown unknowns come back and bite you if you take on someone like Paul who has massive downside variance and a worse contract in that downside scenario.
Exactly. My point is that unpredictable stuff happens all the time, and when you’re locked into old, expensive CP3, almost all the unpredictable stuff is bad, as we saw here with Horford and the cap situation.Well, I agree given the Horford situation, I'd rather not make such a move.
You don’t have to worry. Nobody is taking on that monstrosity of a contract.Please just NO NO NO on Chris Paul. Don't want him. Don't want to pay him. Don't want to give him a big contract. Want no part of Chris Paul. As talented as he is.
You won't be giving him a big contract. He already has the big contract. And for the next three years, he's going to be wildly overpaid, to a degree you rarely see in the NBA. He's cooked, man. The history of point guards and their performance after they hit the wall isn't good. Paul has hit the wall.Please just NO NO NO on Chris Paul. Don't want him. Don't want to pay him. Don't want to give him a big contract. Want no part of Chris Paul. As talented as he is.
This makes the decision by Houston to give Paul a max contract last offseason even dumber than it looked at the time.You won't be giving him a big contract. He already has the big contract. And for the next three years, he's going to be wildly overpaid, to a degree you rarely see in the NBA. He's cooked, man. The history of point guards and their performance after they hit the wall isn't good. Paul has hit the wall.
Part of it must have been a wink wink nudge nudge deal when he picked up the option to facilitate the trade there in the first place, turning down the max from the Clippers he could have otherwise gotten: put off the mega payday for a year and we’ll make it up for you next off season. No way he does that in the first place without assurances from Morey that he’ll be take care of, come hell or high water.This makes the decision by Houston to give Paul a max contract last offseason even dumber than it looked at the time.
This makes sense.I will say this - if this Horford story is correct and he is gone, I fully expect the Celtics to be more closely linked with return of Thomas.
As HRB and others have noted, he may well be physically unable to even provide even league-average offense let alone negligible defense. However if he is still capable of generating some offense, he gives Ainge a low cost option - assuming he is still pining to play in Boston - to sop up some minutes and also provide some fan service as the Celtics retool again.
I know there are quite a few folks who are against his return and he may well be cooked. However he checks a lot of boxes for a team looking for an inexpensive (no Brinks truck here), low commitment way to get some potential scoring.
Houston was definitely in GFIN mode but it's just such a terrible contract. The only other contract that looks worse right now is John Wall.This makes the decision by Houston to give Paul a max contract last offseason even dumber than it looked at the time.
These guys have been game planning for all eventualities. I think those who have said they'll either take on bad contracts for assets or get guys on a short-term deal are closest to right unless Ainge feels the "right guy" is out there to mortgage their cap space long-term or spend assets to acquire. I really like Vucevic but the idea of tying up space for 4 years probably doesn't make sense if you aren't getting a 'star' player.Should Irving leave, and the team’s bid for an Anthony Davis trade fall through, then short of moving ahead with what’s left, Danny Ainge’s creativity will be tested like never before. Though he wouldn’t share specifics, Grousbeck has admittedly heard some fairly exotic scenarios being discussed.
“There’s definitely scenarios being spun inside the basketball office,” he said. “I’m there every day listening to them, that involve a number of players. I’ve heard a lot of scenarios. We’ll just see what happens.”
If we're blowing things up, why would we ever want to trade one of our best young players, especially to move up in a weak draft? I'd keep all 3 picks, hope one out of 3 of them turns into a real player, and pray Memphis continues to be a lottery team. It's not a high probability of success, but I think it's their highest probability of success.This makes sense.
With Al leaving, it’s time to blow it up. Don’t commit any money to anyone beyond 2020-21 (which means no Rozier). See how far up you can move in Thursday’s draft by stapling Jaylen to #14 (and perhaps the later picks). Bring in a few veterans on short deals, watch Tatum develop, see if GH gets his groove back, find out if Time Lord is a real NBA player, and wait for a better day, when you’ll hopefully have enough cap space to bring in two free agents (including one max guy) to play with Tatum, Smart, this year’s lottery pick, and the Memphis pick.
Bringing IT’s swan song to town would be a nice storyline for the fans while the near-term pain plays out.
Isn’t the real question How many first round picks will the Knicks trade for him?You don’t have to worry. Nobody is taking on that monstrosity of a contract.
I agree with this. I have no interest in Rozier limiting anything they can do, so they should let him walk. I'd like to keep Brown but if an asset with a higher ceiling is available for him and the 14, definitely do that.This makes sense.
With Al leaving, it’s time to blow it up. Don’t commit any money to anyone beyond 2020-21 (which means no Rozier). See how far up you can move in Thursday’s draft by stapling Jaylen to #14 (and perhaps the later picks). Bring in a few veterans on short deals, watch Tatum develop, see if GH gets his groove back, find out if Time Lord is a real NBA player, and wait for a better day, when you’ll hopefully have enough cap space to bring in two free agents (including one max guy) to play with Tatum, Smart, this year’s lottery pick, and the Memphis pick.
Bringing IT’s swan song to town would be a nice storyline for the fans while the near-term pain plays out.
I don't want IT back. For one thing, he can't play anymore, and I don't have the kind of confidence in his ever getting it back that I do in Hayward given the type of injury, and his game. And that's going ot be a problem, IT has never struck me as a guy who would be happy sitting on the bench, taking a small vet role. If you play him... well that's even worse, the whole point with a young team is development and building good habits. You're not doing that with IT, he can't defend even when he tries, so it breaks your system, and on offense he's a gunner not a distributor.This makes sense.
With Al leaving, it’s time to blow it up. Don’t commit any money to anyone beyond 2020-21 (which means no Rozier). See how far up you can move in Thursday’s draft by stapling Jaylen to #14 (and perhaps the later picks). Bring in a few veterans on short deals, watch Tatum develop, see if GH gets his groove back, find out if Time Lord is a real NBA player, and wait for a better day, when you’ll hopefully have enough cap space to bring in two free agents (including one max guy) to play with Tatum, Smart, this year’s lottery pick, and the Memphis pick.
Bringing IT’s swan song to town would be a nice storyline for the fans while the near-term pain plays out.
From ESPN:Details on that future Utah pick going to Mem?
Old friend Avery Bradley could be a FA?Memphis has until 7/3 to waive Avery Bradley ($2mm guar, $12.9mm if not waived) and 7/10 to waive Kyle Korver ($3.44mm guar, $7.55mm if not waived).
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1141374801308725248As a consequence of this trade, the Jazz are apparently going to waive Derrick Favors. Might be someone I'd call if I were Ainge.
One would assume they waive both. Korver will have a lot of suitors and can probably get the taxpayer's MLE.Memphis has until 7/3 to waive Avery Bradley ($2mm guar, $12.9mm if not waived) and 7/10 to waive Kyle Korver ($3.44mm guar, $7.55mm if not waived).