A deal constructed around Giannis for Siakam makes a certain amount of sense. The Bucks have to go back to board and get creative in finding someone for Siakam to play off of, but that's better than being the T'wolves. Toronto has long term running mates for Giannis in vanVleet and Anunoby and Masai has shown a talent for unearthing guys like that to put around him.
I mean, yes, in comparison to one of the worst contracts in sports history, the Wiggins deal doesn't look too bad. But it still sucks and it stinks. Much like Wiggins defense. And his scoring efficiency. But, hey, given enough shots he can get you twenty points. So there is that, I guess.
To the extent the thinking behind this theory (whether it comes from Giannis' camp or is just rampant speculation) is that Giannis wants to go to the Raptors or Heat because those are the teams the Bucks have struggled against, that's not a great reason because whoever signs or trades for Giannis is going to have to dramatically adjust their roster to fit him in (for example, a Giannis Heat team almost certainly wouldn't have Dragic, and a Giannis Raptors team almost certainly wouldn't have FVV and might not have Siakam either).
Any Raptors deal is being built around Siakam, because it's the only way to make the salaries work while still involving a palatable return. If the Bucks weren't willing to pay Brogdon there's no way they're paying vanVleet his next deal. And sure as shit there's no way they're taking him as the centerpiece of a Giannis deal.
Definitely, I just meant if he was thinking about them in free agency after next year as opposed to demanding a trade to them this year.
A Jaylen+ package is instantly near the top of potential offers. I just don’t think the Celtics would do it after the Kyrie jilting.
Sure, Golden State, Boston, and New York agree to a deal that gets completed after the draft where Wiggins and the player New York wants at 2 go to the Knicks, Hayward goes to Golden State, and Patrick Williams (drafted eighth), Minnesota's 21/22 #1, and a future Knicks #1 go to Boston. And then early in the year When Giannis demands out Boston trades a bunch of firsts to the Bucks for Giannis using the Hayward TPE to fit his salary. Happy now?
Can’t totally disagree with either of these assessments, but since lovegtm’s implied claim was “worst contract in the NBA” I think John Wall is sufficient to debunk that claim.
Agreed, I think they aren't breaking up the Jays right now, especially for a superstar that could walk shortly after the trade.
See, now we're talking!
You are, lovably, by far the biggest homer on this board. But even by your standards suggesting that McCollum and Kemba are in the same category as Wiggins in terms of contracts is completely insane. I bet there are zero teams, regardless of roster construction, who would even consider Wiggins over either. And I imagine even you know this to be true.
i don’t want any of those guys for Wiggins, so no, I don’t know it to be true in all circumstances.
Hayward + picks to Indiana
No, all of those teams would take Kemba regardless of the fact that they already have PGs because it would be much easier to flip Kemba than it would to flip Wiggins.
Yes, you would, but that’s because you’re a gigantic homer and Wiggins is in your team. Otherwise, you wouldn’t and no one else would. He’s a vastly better version of DLo. It’s not close
I mean, I said I was big on Wiggins-for-McCollum from Portland’s perspective before Wiggins was a glimmer in Bob Myers’ eye, so I’m not sure GS homerism applies. I guess it might mean I’m a Wiggins fanboy, lol.
Geez, do I have to say again that I thought McCollum-for-Wiggins was a great trade for Portland long before Wiggins came to GS? Pretty sure I argued it on this board, if anyone knows where to dig it up.
No need to dig it up, you've been an outspoken critic of McCollum for a while. I watched CJ a little more closely during the bubble and have to agree with you on CJs defensive ineptitude.Geez, do I have to say again that I thought McCollum-for-Wiggins was a great trade for Portland long before Wiggins came to GS? Pretty sure I argued it on this board, if anyone knows where to dig it up.
Fit matters. A lot of people on Warriors boards don’t want to trade Wiggins at all because he fits the team so well, and looked so natural in his brief time in GS, running the floor and slashing to the rim on O, guarding multiple positions on D, etc. I’m more on the “trade him if we can” boat, though do I think there’s a decent chance there’s a much better version of him that we didn’t see through the first half of his age 24 season. (Kemba Walker kinda sucked at age 24, too, fwiw — was a much less efficient scorer than Wiggins at similar volume, and obviously much less versatile defensively. At 25 he started to transform his game, built around s revamped 3 pt shot.)
In any case, your “worst contract in the NBA” claim was false because John Wall. As I said, other bad/onerous contracts are more eye of the beholder due to situation and fit. Obviously there’s a “home court advantage” for a guy on your team who fits your team’s culture, chemistry and style of play over the guy on another team who does not. Would you trade Gordon Hayward for Kyrie, homer?
Anyway, the topic (IIRC) was whether the Ws have the assets to get Giannis if he decides to force his way out of Milwaukee. Obviously on that count I get that Wiggins would have zero-to-negative trade value. My general sense is that the #2 pick plus Minny 2020-21 plus Paschall plus future GS first rounders is not far off what NO got for their rental of AD, and better than what SA got for Kawhi (and Danny Green). And as I noted, Draymond could easily be switched out for Wiggins.
Definitely think Toronto and Miami (the current leaders in the clubhouse?) can put together more Godfather-type offers than GS can. The question is then do they give up Paschall/Adebayo or Adebayo/Herro/Robinson for a one-year rental. And of course the biggest question is whether Giannis would consider pulling an AD at all. Tick tick tick...
) is a bridge too far IMO. Wiggins had great players around him in Minny (KAT/Butler) and showed ZERO even negative value. Kemba never had anyone around him and still made himself an All-Star. No need to do age-related comps, it's an effort/attitude thing not talent. Wiggins needs to get in the gym in the offseason and work on his game, barring that his contract is an anchor (which I think you agree with)
You were definitely beating that drum before Wiggins was on the Dubs:
That said, I suspect it was more motivated by MCCollum hate than any love for Wiggins
:
You were definitely beating that drum before Wiggins was on the Dubs:
That said, I suspect it was more motivated by MCCollum hate than any love for Wiggins
He's been doing it all year. The problem is he's become a really good passer so doubling him in that area is a problem. And 1 v 1 it's unfair, he drops that shoulder and it gives him like 2 feet of space as the guy goes flying.
Something that was pointed out to me last year that I now think of every time I see him play is that Kawhi just has crazy shoulders; and they allow him to basically shoe away defenders and if he takes a little fall-away you basically can't contest it.
I know you wanted to end this, but I have to add to the chorus that you are significantly overrating Wiggins.
On pace for under 35 minutes played in a must win game. Bud is about to be fired.
