I've watched bits and pieces of the first four games, but have seen very little of RW. How has his usage been relative to DT and TT? Is he always the solo big or has he been paired up with either at all?I like how TL has started this season and I'm more than content with some combination of him, Theis, and TT in the center rotation.
Just don't play any of them at the same time unless you absolutely have to.
Here's his lineups: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/williro04/lineups/2021I've watched bits and pieces of the first four games, but have seen very little of RW. How has his usage been relative to DT and TT? Is he always the solo big or has he been paired up with either at all?
Small sample size, but the lineups with him as sole big have been far more successful than when paired with GWill.Here's his lineups: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/williro04/lineups/2021
Don't see any with Theis or Thompson.
I’m guessing fat GWill doesn’t make many/any lineups look good.Small sample size, but the lineups with him as sole big have been far more successful than when paired with GWill.
I'm guessing all the GWill lineups have been far less successful.Small sample size, but the lineups with him as sole big have been far more successful than when paired with GWill.
BingoI’m guessing fat GWill doesn’t make many/any lineups look good.
Given his ORtg and DRtg, that's not surprising but remember that RWill is playing against a lot of second units.If I'm reading this chart right, 5 of the top 6 performing lineups for the Celtics have Robert Williams as the only big: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2021/lineups/
This is the route I would choose, but hopefully settling closer to 4/$40M extension, rather than 4/$50M+. This team could use some contracts in this range for salary matching if things don't pan out, but I am extremely pleased with his improvement.2. try to extend him after this season (would likely be at $12M-17M per, based on other promising center RFA extensions). Could be extended with a view to trading later.
Yeah, the hypothetical was intended to remove the 4/40 option. It’s a possibility right now, but if he plays well for 2-3 more months it’s likely off the table, so I wanted to force harder choices.This is the route I would choose, but hopefully settling closer to 4/$40M extension, rather than 4/$50M+. This team could use some contracts in this range for salary matching if things don't pan out, but I am extremely pleased with his improvement.
Yeah, I can see what you mean. A 4/$40 is a no-brainer, but it becomes a bit more of a tough call at 4/$60. I think I'd probably still pull the trigger considering he would not be nearly the worst value out there if he can be 110% of what he's shown thus far at season's end, and an extremely tradable salary with that value.Yeah, the hypothetical was intended to remove the 4/40 option. It’s a possibility right now, but if he plays well for 2-3 more months it’s likely off the table, so I wanted to force harder choices.
Yeah, the hypothetical was intended to remove the 4/40 option. It’s a possibility right now, but if he plays well for 2-3 more months it’s likely off the table, so I wanted to force harder choices.
I understand that playing time must be earned, but at some point I'd love to see how Time Lord would fare playing, say, 32 minutes in a game. Maybe he'd foul out in half that time. Maybe he'd get hurt. Or maybe he'd put up 12 and 12, with two assists and four blocks.I go to RFA as well. Don't think #3 is a viable option since I can't imagine the return would be worth giving up on his upside. I would like to see him get more minutes because he is an absolute game changer for this team if the light bulb stays on vs. its current flickering.
Agreed. The guy has never played 20+ minutes in consecutive games in his entire career. He's obviously raw but he has a ton of potential and it'd be nice to give him consistent reps.I understand that playing time must be earned, but at some point I'd love to see how Time Lord would fare playing, say, 32 minutes in a game. Maybe he'd foul out in half that time. Maybe he'd get hurt. Or maybe he'd put up 12 and 12, with two assists and four blocks.
My initial thoughts, too, but you have to roll the dice on some guys and I’d rather it be TL than any veteran the Celtics would be able to score with that salary (basically older guys like Thompson). The compromise between these positions is the RFA route, I suppose.I do see him as a sell high candidate given his injury history
OMG.I like how TL has started this season and I'm more than content with some combination of him, Theis, and TT in the center rotation.
Just don't play any of them at the same time unless you absolutely have to.
He has played great. But he playing against the other team's bench, and not against guys that are picking and popping. Be careful assuming a guy giving good bench minutes is suddenly a starter. They are picking best case to use him. Also he doesn't seem to have great stamina. Last year he really lacked confidence on D, and was lost a lot. They are downing most screens with him out there, and he is just staying home. This is not a viable all game strategy. Right now he doing well against the low post, when last year he was getting shoved under the hoop.I understand that playing time must be earned, but at some point I'd love to see how Time Lord would fare playing, say, 32 minutes in a game. Maybe he'd foul out in half that time. Maybe he'd get hurt. Or maybe he'd put up 12 and 12, with two assists and four blocks.
Is downing a screen also known as drop coverage? Would love to hear this explained more.He has played great. But he playing against the other team's bench, and not against guys that are picking and popping. Be careful assuming a guy giving good bench minutes is suddenly a starter. They are picking best case to use him. Also he doesn't seem to have great stamina. Last year he really lacked confidence on D, and was lost a lot. They are downing most screens with him out there, and he is just staying home. This is not a viable all game strategy. Right now he doing well against the low post, when last year he was getting shoved under the hoop.
Did the rest of the team fall overboard?OMG.
Then who do you play? Semi, or Grant? That's the choice.
Yes? They're both totally fine, and are actual big wings who know how to play on the perimeter on both ends.OMG.
Then who do you play? Semi, or Grant? That's the choice.
When Tatum and Time Lord were standing next to each other during a recent game, Williams looked taller to me. Maybe my eyes deceived me, but isn't Tatum supposed to be 6-10 these days?I had forgotten TL is 6'8 until Hubie mentioned it last night. In my mind he is a 7 footer.
It's like Magic Johnson. He's as tall as Howard Stern who is like 6'5. Not 6'9. Barkley was maybe 6'4. Hakeem was closer to 6'10.I expect three years ago TL is listed at 6'10 or more. We had the the great reckoning where they measured guys. I wonder if they will keep doing that. I remember Bill Russell when he was an announcer doing a feature on McHale and going to a practice in gym clothes. They measured reach, handsize, etc and Bill was longer, but surprised KM was almost as long as him. During the broadcast Bill was asked why McHale was listed at 6'10 or 6'11 if he was the same size as 6'9 Bill. "(Insert Bill cackle) at some point coaches decided forwards were supposed to be 6'10 or bigger, so that's what they write down."
Haven't seen Hakeem (old joke was he added an H, subtracted 2 inches) I would say you are split. I am 6'4 and would say I was mayb a bit taller than the 6'6 Sir Charles, though his butt had its own gravitational field. But, Magic is a big dude, 6'7 at least, my guess was 6'8. Guys I know say Bird is legit 6'9.It's like Magic Johnson. He's as tall as Howard Stern who is like 6'5. Not 6'9. Barkley was maybe 6'4. Hakeem was closer to 6'10.
Interesting. I’d always thought McHale was the go-to example for “guys who are really 7’ but don’t want to be called centers”.I expect three years ago TL is listed at 6'10 or more. We had the the great reckoning where they measured guys. I wonder if they will keep doing that. I remember Bill Russell when he was an announcer doing a feature on McHale and going to a practice in gym clothes. They measured reach, handsize, etc and Bill was longer, but surprised KM was almost as long as him. During the broadcast Bill was asked why McHale was listed at 6'10 or 6'11 if he was the same size as 6'9 Bill. "(Insert Bill cackle) at some point coaches decided forwards were supposed to be 6'10 or bigger, so that's what they write down."
Kevin Garnett called himself 6'13 for this reason.Interesting. I’d always thought McHale was the go-to example for “guys who are really 7’ but don’t want to be called centers”.
TL is a walking optical illusion. If I believe my lying eyes, he's easily 7'. With the added bulk, the illusion is complete.I had forgotten TL is 6'8 until Hubie mentioned it last night. In my mind he is a 7 footer.
I remember (faulty though my memory may be) those two specifically joking about it.Kevin Garnett called himself 6'13 for this reason.
I watched this evolution of sports Ted Talk.Timelord’s standing reach is ludicrous given his height (9-4 iirc). You can see it when he tries to shoot FTs: lots of moving parts because the things are so damn long.
You also see it on the aforementioned deflections. Guys just aren’t used to that kind of wingspan laterally in the lane.
He TOTALLY Shoots FTs like Parish. All Arms and Elbows.Timelord’s standing reach is ludicrous given his height (9-4 iirc). You can see it when he tries to shoot FTs: lots of moving parts because the things are so damn long.
6 for 7 so far though, it'd be nice to see that improvement stick.He TOTALLY Shoots FTs like Parish. All Arms and Elbows.
DeAndre Jordan | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Season | Age | G | GS | MPG | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
2008-09 |
20 |
53 |
13 |
14.5 |
4.3 |
6.9 |
0.6 |
0 |
4.3 |
6.9 |
0.633 |
2 |
5.1 |
0.39 |
3.4 |
7.7 |
11.1 |
0.5 |
0.5 |
2.8 |
1.9 |
4.5 |
10.6 |
2009-10 |
21 |
70 |
12 |
16.2 |
4.6 |
7.5 |
0.6 |
0 |
4.6 |
7.5 |
0.61 |
1.5 |
4.1 |
0.38 |
3.9 |
7.3 |
11.1 |
0.7 |
0.5 |
2 |
2.4 |
4.8 |
10.6 |
2010-11 |
22 |
80 |
66 |
25.6 |
4.1 |
6 |
0.7 |
0 |
4.1 |
6 |
0.688 |
1.7 |
3.8 |
0.45 |
3.6 |
6.5 |
10.1 |
0.7 |
0.7 |
2.5 |
1.8 |
4 |
10 |
Rudy Gobert | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Season | Age | G | GS | MPG | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
2013-14 |
21 |
45 |
0 |
9.6 |
3 |
6.1 |
0.5 |
0 |
3 |
6.1 |
0.486 |
2.7 |
5.4 |
0.49 |
4.2 |
8.6 |
12.9 |
0.6 |
0.7 |
3.4 |
2.7 |
4.7 |
8.6 |
2014-15 |
22 |
82 |
37 |
26.3 |
4.3 |
7.1 |
0.6 |
0 |
4.3 |
7.1 |
0.607 |
2.8 |
4.6 |
0.62 |
4.4 |
8.5 |
12.9 |
1.8 |
1.1 |
3.2 |
1.9 |
2.9 |
11.4 |
2015-16 |
23 |
61 |
60 |
31.7 |
3.7 |
6.6 |
0.6 |
0 |
3.7 |
6.6 |
0.559 |
3 |
5.3 |
0.57 |
3.9 |
8.6 |
12.4 |
1.7 |
0.8 |
2.5 |
2.1 |
3 |
10.4 |
Clint Capela | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Season | Age | G | GS | MPG | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
2014-15 |
20 |
12 |
0 |
7.5 |
5.6 |
11.6 |
0.5 |
0 |
5.6 |
11.6 |
0.483 |
1.6 |
9.2 |
0.17 |
4 |
10.4 |
14.4 |
0.8 |
0.4 |
3.6 |
2 |
5.6 |
12.8 |
2015-16 |
21 |
77 |
35 |
19.1 |
5.7 |
9.7 |
0.6 |
0 |
5.7 |
9.7 |
0.583 |
2 |
5.2 |
0.38 |
4.7 |
7.3 |
12.1 |
1.2 |
1.4 |
2.3 |
1.5 |
4.6 |
13.3 |
2016-17 |
22 |
65 |
59 |
23.9 |
8.4 |
13.1 |
0.6 |
0 |
8.4 |
13.1 |
0.643 |
2.2 |
4.1 |
0.53 |
4.1 |
8.1 |
12.2 |
1.5 |
0.8 |
1.8 |
2 |
4.2 |
19 |
Robert Williams | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Season | Age | G | GS | MPG | FG | FGA | FG% | 3P | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS |
2018-19 |
21 |
32 |
2 |
8.8 |
4.6 |
6.5 |
0.7 |
0 |
4.6 |
6.5 |
0.706 |
1.1 |
1.9 |
0.6 |
3.4 |
6.9 |
10.3 |
0.9 |
1.1 |
5.1 |
1.3 |
4.6 |
10.3 |
2019-20 |
22 |
29 |
1 |
13.4 |
5.9 |
8.2 |
0.7 |
0 |
5.9 |
8.2 |
0.727 |
2 |
3.2 |
0.65 |
3.7 |
8.2 |
11.9 |
2.5 |
2 |
3.2 |
1.9 |
4.7 |
13.9 |
2020-21 |
23 |
8 |
0 |
16.4 |
6.6 |
8.5 |
0.8 |
0 |
6.6 |
8.2 |
0.8 |
1.6 |
1.9 |
0.86 |
5.5 |
8.8 |
14.3 |
1.4 |
2.5 |
3.3 |
3 |
2.7 |
14.8 |
And to be fair, TL’s minutes would be a decent amount higher this year if the team weren’t so deep at that position.I'm probably too much of a Time Lord stan, but I'm a sucker for uber-athletic centers. I get so pumped watching him play with activity and I can't remember the last time the Celtics had an athletic advantage at the five.
The one thing I try to keep in mind with him is that center is the hardest position to transition to in the NBA because of its defensive responsibilities Outside of generational talents like AD, guys take a while to get comfortable enough to play significant minutes. One thing working against Time Lord is that he's been injured and hasn't been on the floor enough to develop. That sucks and it makes it hard to evaluate him. But just to set perspective, here's him compared to three players picked around the same draft slot as him:
DeAndre Jordan Season Age G GS MPG FG FGA FG% 3P 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 2008-09 20 53 13 14.5 4.3 6.9 0.6 0 4.3 6.9 0.633 2 5.1 0.39 3.4 7.7 11.1 0.5 0.5 2.8 1.9 4.5 10.62009-10 21 70 12 16.2 4.6 7.5 0.6 0 4.6 7.5 0.61 1.5 4.1 0.38 3.9 7.3 11.1 0.7 0.5 2 2.4 4.8 10.62010-11 22 80 66 25.6 4.1 6 0.7 0 4.1 6 0.688 1.7 3.8 0.45 3.6 6.5 10.1 0.7 0.7 2.5 1.8 4 10Rudy Gobert Season Age G GS MPG FG FGA FG% 3P 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 2013-14 21 45 0 9.6 3 6.1 0.5 0 3 6.1 0.486 2.7 5.4 0.49 4.2 8.6 12.9 0.6 0.7 3.4 2.7 4.7 8.62014-15 22 82 37 26.3 4.3 7.1 0.6 0 4.3 7.1 0.607 2.8 4.6 0.62 4.4 8.5 12.9 1.8 1.1 3.2 1.9 2.9 11.42015-16 23 61 60 31.7 3.7 6.6 0.6 0 3.7 6.6 0.559 3 5.3 0.57 3.9 8.6 12.4 1.7 0.8 2.5 2.1 3 10.4Clint Capela Season Age G GS MPG FG FGA FG% 3P 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 2014-15 20 12 0 7.5 5.6 11.6 0.5 0 5.6 11.6 0.483 1.6 9.2 0.17 4 10.4 14.4 0.8 0.4 3.6 2 5.6 12.82015-16 21 77 35 19.1 5.7 9.7 0.6 0 5.7 9.7 0.583 2 5.2 0.38 4.7 7.3 12.1 1.2 1.4 2.3 1.5 4.6 13.32016-17 22 65 59 23.9 8.4 13.1 0.6 0 8.4 13.1 0.643 2.2 4.1 0.53 4.1 8.1 12.2 1.5 0.8 1.8 2 4.2 19Robert Williams Season Age G GS MPG FG FGA FG% 3P 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS 2018-19 21 32 2 8.8 4.6 6.5 0.7 0 4.6 6.5 0.706 1.1 1.9 0.6 3.4 6.9 10.3 0.9 1.1 5.1 1.3 4.6 10.32019-20 22 29 1 13.4 5.9 8.2 0.7 0 5.9 8.2 0.727 2 3.2 0.65 3.7 8.2 11.9 2.5 2 3.2 1.9 4.7 13.92020-21 23 8 0 16.4 6.6 8.5 0.8 0 6.6 8.2 0.8 1.6 1.9 0.86 5.5 8.8 14.3 1.4 2.5 3.3 3 2.7 14.8
Obviously, the main caveat is those minutes played. RW is well behind them and by a significant margin when totaled. Also, these guys don't all have the same games, so it's not apples to apples. That said, for each one of these guys, it took a couple of seasons to get consistent roles (none of them starting consistently until season three) and on a per 36 basis, Time Lord compares favorably when he's able to get on the floor. Furthermore, he's doing so on a playoff/near championship-level team. If he was on the Knicks or Hawks the last couple years (and healthy), I think it's safe to say he'd have the kinds of counting stats people salivate over.
I'd prefer to extend him next offseason than let him hit RFA. Because of the center market, I don't think he'll get above the MLE, but this is an asset you hold onto because of the type of player he can become. I'd rather have him than Theis on DT's next contract and I'd certainly prefer him to the Tristan Thompson's of the world.
Timing is everythingRW coming down with COVID both as he is playing well and as there is a significant opportunity for playing time is basically classic RW