True. After looking at the playoff teams, not a lot of obvious fits. Feel like a team like San Antonio would be big on Vucevic if he were made available. Could offer Aldridge's expiring deal along with picks and guys like Lonnie Walker, Keldon, or Vassell although I figure Keldon and Vassell would probably be off limits.
True, teams that would have no interest include PHI, MIL, BRK, IND, UTA, LAL, LAC, PHO, DEN, POR. I don't think there are many contenders who would jump in
I don't know if this trade is even plausible but this is the sort of delta generating trade the Celtics should be looking at. Harrison Barnes would be fine and would be a modest upgrade (I also think those pounding the table hardest for him would be the first to go sour on him simply because he is guilty of not being as good as he *should* be given his athleticism and pedigree - someone noted this upthread and its spot on) but he or any of the other non-superstar players don't feel like enough to put the C's over the top. The Clippers game showed it and Brown's progression mean they are very close. The Jazz game and the fall off from Tatum, Brown and *Smart to the rest of the roster shows you they still have a ways to go. They need a bit more imo - Vuc and some depth in Fournier would cover a fair bit of that distance.
The move that seems bold to me, at perhaps a reasonable cost, is Lonzo Ball. Of the names being thrown around I think he has as much upside as anyone. More risk too, because the shot seems like it's something that might not turn out to be solid. But he's a playmaker, and a guy who rebounds and pushes pace really well. I think he'd be a great fit next to Tatum and Brown, and he's on their timeline as well. Guys like Barnes are more complimentary pieces who will be solid on O and D, but there's not the same upside there is with Ball, imo.
You're looking at guys available for the Kanter TPE. You're not getting an all-star there. You're looking at the leavings of the NBA for guys that are better bench options than Carsen Edwards. Temple qualifies.
Unfortunately for Boston they failed to heed my advice and hire an exorcist to cleanse the team of Kyrie a couple of years ago. The result is that their assets at the moment are Tatum, Brown, and Smart. And that's it. There's nothing else but low first round picks (thanks to Tatum, Brown, and Smart). Unless the team continues to play the way it has with Kemba in the lineup, in which case they'll have a late lottery pick at the end of the year. There are no bold moves to be made. Unless we're talking about trading Brown. Which I'd hope we can all agree would be a bad idea.
My only point is that trading just for a marginal upgrade (and you are correct that Temple would marginally upgrade their bench) seems like a waste of assets, especially given the Cs relatively bare cupboard. From a pure risk/reward it strikes me that a hoping for a Nesmith or one of the other bench pieces to develop is better than dealing them away for a league-average player who maybe gets them a win or two more in the regular season. YRMV.
At some point, one could consider trading a boatload of future picks. JB/JT with another top (30-40?) player are perennial title contenders (with some supporting cast). Hayward would have been that player. Healthy Kemba would have been that player. Unfortunately, neither of them are here. As much as we like PP and GW and RW and the like, it seems unlikely they are going to be in that bracket. So, at what point in time do you push your chips to the center of the table? And of course, there are two paths - the path where you go for a short-term answer with little salary control (e.g. Oladipo) or do you look for a younger player where you'll have some longer salary control?
Pelicans have been playing much better of late. Who's their point guard if they move Ball?
I totally support this idea, despite being very down on him coming into the NBA. Last 12 games he's shooting 42% from three, averaging basically 15, 5 and 5 with a 1.5 steals per game. Always been a good team defender. Just a weird, interesting player. I'm here for it.
Makes you wonder, he's been a different player the last couple of weeks. Maybe his brother, maybe the trade talk, maybe random....
Haven't heard anything concrete other than that Lonzo and Rich Paul want Chicago if he gets traded. I'd assume they want a protected pick and a lottery ticket player? He's a tough player to value, he was a high pick, but disappointed, his offense has improved, but his defense has been slipping each year as his offense improves. His name recognition is significantly above his talent level/production which likely means he gets overpaid on his next deal, and he has Rich Paul as his agent which brings it's own issues.
Eric Bledsoe, they've been starting two PGs all year, so if they traded Lonzo they'd just play a real SG/SF instead of him.
I think it's just a hot shooting streak, all his other numbers look the same (his D has actually maybe slipped) but he's shooting like 52% from 3 recently is the major difference.
For me, acquiring Lonzo would be a precursor to another deal you have on the table to acquire a big time player with Smart as part of the package.
Hart would be a solid get.
Honestly Ball would be more likely to get you there than Smart. Smart's really only useful to contenders, who aren't dealing all stars. Put another way, Ball is your big move if you're acquiring him.
I think there could be a small window for other Smart trades beyond contenders, mostly teams who have accumulated a bunch of young talent over the years that hasn't translated to wins, and GMs who would try to sell fans on needing a culture change rather than a GM change.
The thing is those teams aren't dealing headline players for the chance at a "culture change". So you're essentially dealing for a lottery protected first that becomes a pair of #2s if the "culture change" doesn't work. Every GM wants to draft the next Marcus with a non-premium pick. No one wants to give up premium assets for him.
Yeah the reason Marcus is hard to trade is that the teams that would really want him, want to trade future for now. We don't want to do that.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't think it's culture change to me that a team getting Marcus wants. I think it's... how do we maximize our window. So maybe SA says... Vassell is nice, but we want to maximize this DeRozan renaissance. The DEN one is a stretch, I was saying maybe best case if you eat a contract, and add picks to Marcus, AND they have soured on him, then DEN might do it because they want to maximize Jokic/Murray and PG and defense have been their weaknesses for years.
I'm sorry, what rebuilding team is giving up an all star for some picks in the 25-30 range? I get that some of you are desperate to get rid of him, but he just isn't that easy to deal.
Because that is what rebuilding teams do. You trade all stars for future picks that may end up being in the 25-30 range, or you get lucky once or twice and it is in the lottery
I'd be careful here on Wall, his knee is likely as bad or worse than Kemba's. Not to mention the Achilles.
Is there a specific history with Wall’s knees to be concerned about? Or is it more the general concern about a guy who relies on speed being on the wrong side of 30? He hasn’t played a lot in the last 4 years (as a result of other injuries which would be a separate concern) so theoretically less wear and tear recently on the knee.
If an all star is available for a few late firsts, explain to me again why the contender isn’t just trading for that guy themselves rather than trading the picks for a lesser player? (Again, Smart’s utility is only to contenders and you’re just not getting an all star from those teams. Not even in a three way because there’s no reason for a contender to supply the picks and still end up with the lesser player. Guys like Smart and Dre Green are valuable, to their teams. Not so valuable on the open market.)
I don't follow. You said what rebuilding team is giving up an all-star for some picks in the 25-30 range. If you offered 3 or 4 first round picks in 2022, 2024, 2026, and maybe 2028 for someone like Lavine, or some other all-star'ish caliber player on a rebuilding team, you don't think they would bite?
Wall's knees are toast, as bad or worse than Kemba. He has all the same issues Kemba has more recently had... multiple surgeries, clean outs, meniscus trim, cartilage debridements, different injections etc.
Yeah, I would rather have Wall over Kemba in a vacuum but when you combine his higher salary and the assets that would be required to make Houston bite...just not worth it. If Wall's contract were shorter, then that would change things but he's got 2 years after this one as well.
If I was forced to pick Kemba or Wall, regardless of contract, I would take Kemba. The contract makes it an even easier choice.
I dunno. Wall has objectively been better so far this year and is a much better defensive player. Even a resurgent Kemba would suck in that department.
Houston wouldn't need any assets to bite, they would jump all over a swap of backcourts in a second
Part of the attraction to me for trading Wall for Kemba is that he is not nearly as likely to get mercilessly hunted on the defensive end. SSS but he has been good defensively this year (-4.7 on/off). With the emergence of JB as a 1b on offense along with JT’s continued development, the added value of Kemba’s offense, even if he gets back to pre-ASB form, is greatly reduced. Someone like Wall who has value on both ends of the court gives the team better balance and should allow for increased usage by JT and JB.
You do him that way on a night where he, 8mile, and Holy Jesusemilore dominated the Raptors?
He’s been OK. Shooting pretty well, otherwise mostly down across the board. Defense has taken a big hit.
That’s fair. I would prefer Wall but it’s not like it would be a slam dunk for me. And if we get more games like last night from Kemba, my thinking probably changes.
You definitely want to move Kemba, just not for another descending, frail, expensive PG. You want that CAP to be spent on younger, ascending players* that timeline with JayCrew. So the John Wall pushback makes sense.
I'm not even advocating for Wall. Just in a vacuum, I'd rather have him over Kemba. I remain on the Barnes/Ball train.
Why would Danny need to ship out assets to get back two worse contracts in Wall and Gordon?
