Could be playing one off the other for negotiation‘s sake. Any idea who’s the better pass blocker? A big part of White’s game.
Keep digging. Calling a guy who had 76 catches in a season the same as Sony -- who has 26 in his career -- is some real brain genius shit.It was a very weird outlier season (also he didn't have a good catch rate for a RB).
Fournette had a 15% drop rate last year and the routinely benched him for drops. He had high drop rates every year we have data for, and he isn't a real receiving back as shown by his negative ADOT. He'd be the same type of passcatcher as Sony. He's not a weapon in the passing game at all.
I mean, one only needs to look at last year when TB was trying to get something out of McCoy's corpse because their backs couldn't be trusted to catch the ball.
Edit- FOurnette is a Sony/Harris replacement not a Burkhead/White replacement. Now maybe we intend to not throw to our RBs, or Bill doesn't like/trust one of Sony/Harris, but nobody trusts Fournette as a passcatcher, it isn't his game even a little bit.
Apparently Fournette is awful at pass blocking...Could be playing one off the other for negotiation‘s sake. Any idea who’s the better pass blocker? A big part of White’s game.
He's a threat in the passing game in that teams have to account for him because they know he'll be used and can do the job in the passing game. Michel is so one-dimensional that when he's on the field, it's a dead giveaway as to whether the Pats are running or passing. Fournette can do both, so at a minimum, it keeps defenses a little on their heels. Which is valuable.Fine, it was hyperbole. I should have said... Fournette is not a threat in the passing game, and it seems a weird fit to bring in a guy who isn't that good or reliable as a passcatcher to a backfield that already has 2 guys in it who are arguably better runners than him.
Edit- Carson makes far more sense, he's a clear upgrade, and he's been more of a threat as a passcatcher in terms of consistency and ability to run downfield routes.
In addition to reuniting with Brady, isn't White's family from FL? Proximity could be important after needing to be away from his mother so soon after the accident last fall.Yeah, I think both view points are accurate. Volume in this case may not indicate adequate quality, but there are catches there. Honestly, I think White would be insane to walk away (unless he got to pair with Brady again, in which case it's all insane). Everything about what BB has just done is to create a mauling power game and having a receiving back to dope slap the teams that try to load up against the run is critical. I don't think that is Fournettte, given the QB we have isn't terribly consistent himself.
Michel did have 5 catches for 91 after coming back from injury. Not big numbers or anything but it did seem like they were at least starting to get him involved in the passing game in a minimal way. He’ll never be an amazing receiving back, but iirc he was great at catching out of the backfield in college, and even a catch or two a game is enough to keep the defense on their toes a bitHe's a threat in the passing game in that teams have to account for him because they know he'll be used and can do the job in the passing game. Michel is so one-dimensional that when he's on the field, it's a dead giveaway as to whether the Pats are running or passing. Fournette can do both, so at a minimum, it keeps defenses a little on their heels. Which is valuable.
I think that may well be a usage thing. Like if the Patriots offense involved Sony sitting around waiting for dump offs, I'm sure he could handle it. They just choose to have those wide splits for some reason which leads to a lot of predictability.He's a threat in the passing game in that teams have to account for him because they know he'll be used and can do the job in the passing game. Michel is so one-dimensional that when he's on the field, it's a dead giveaway as to whether the Pats are running or passing. Fournette can do both, so at a minimum, it keeps defenses a little on their heels. Which is valuable.
But the thing is.... that's really more about our coaching staff than a difference in the players' abilities, and that's why I think Fournette is such an awkward fit.He's a threat in the passing game in that teams have to account for him because they know he'll be used and can do the job in the passing game. Michel is so one-dimensional that when he's on the field, it's a dead giveaway as to whether the Pats are running or passing. Fournette can do both, so at a minimum, it keeps defenses a little on their heels. Which is valuable.
I'm talking talent and per-target results. If Sony got 100+ targets I'm sure he'd have at something in the realm of 65-80 catches and 500+ yeard.Keep digging. Calling a guy who had 76 catches in a season the same as Sony -- who has 26 in his career -- is some real brain genius shit.
Jamal Williams is a JAG & another guy with a -1.3 ypc split compared to the better back on his team.The list of free agency RBs that can catch the ball and pass block at a competent level looks pretty short if White leaves. Jamaal Williams looks like the best option to me - he can actually run the ball too, so would certainly bring more options on 3rd down in non-obvious passing situations. Tevin Coleman could be interesting as a low cost flyer for a year assuming they draft a back to develop for a year.
Williams, Duke Johnson, and Coleman are a few names that stuck out to me. Or could go cheaper with someone like TJ Yeldon or reclamation project Corey Clement.The list of free agency RBs that can catch the ball and pass block at a competent level looks pretty short if White leaves. Jamaal Williams looks like the best option to me - he can actually run the ball too, so would certainly bring more options on 3rd down in non-obvious passing situations. Tevin Coleman could be interesting as a low cost flyer for a year assuming they draft a back to develop for a year.
The parameters: While the Patriots started with $76 million, it is really more like $69 million once the Trent Brown trade becomes official on March 17 (and that’s counting the $7 million cleared by trading Marcus Cannon to the Texans. Like a real GM, you can’t spend the cap space down to $0. You have to leave about $15 million in space to sign rookies and other players during the season. The Patriots have already bolstered the roster with a number of free-agent signings but haven’t committed a ton of cap space to them, so your number is set at $45 million.
2021 Patriots signings
Name Pos. Details
Cam Newton QB 1 year, $13.6 million, Read more
Justin Bethel DB 3 years, $6 million, Read more
Jonnu Smith TE 4 years, $50 million, Read more
Davon Godchaux DT 2 years, $16 million, Read more
Matt Judon LB 4 years, $56 million, Read more
Jalen Mills DB 4 years, $24 million, Read more
Deatrich Wise Jr. DL 4 years, $30 million, Read more
Nelson Agholor WR 2 years, $26 million, Read more
Kendrick Bourne WR 3 years, $22.5 million, Read more
Henry Anderson DE 2 years, $11 million, Read more
Hunter Henry TE 3 years, $37.5 million, Read more
Duke is pretty interesting...he kinda sucked last year, but that could just be a Texans thing & might make him available at a reasonable price.Duke Johnson?
He is capable of catching the ball like a real receiver - a la White. Not sure what his pass protection skills are.Duke is pretty interesting...he kinda sucked last year, but that could just be a Texans thing & might make him available at a reasonable price.
Yeah, he's supposed to be pretty decent at pass blocking & can line up in the slot etc. If the price is right, definitely wouldn't be a bad White replacement.He is capable of catching the ball like a real receiver - a la White. Not sure what his pass protection skills are.
I’m not going to pull the insider thing as it’s not the case. That said, I do know someone with the globe sports department, and he said that number is correct.
I mean they got to 7-9 despite not having an NFL TE and the 6th best WR corps in the ACC. Given good TEs and some competent receivers I'm pretty sure they can add more than one win.I look forward to all of these signings working out well and the Pats still finishing 8-8 because Cam Newton is their quarterback.
So they STILL have $45 million of available cap space?I’m not going to pull the insider thing as it’s not the case. That said, I do know someone with the globe sports department, and he said that number is correct.
That seems impossible. If it’s true I’m gonna have to change my pants for the 8th time in 24 hoursSo they STILL have $45 million of available cap space?
All I did was send a text and got back “[blank] told me it’s the right number”.So they STILL have $45 million of available cap space?
I don't agree with that re: White. I think he is a legitimate RB on his own (even if a change of pace), and a quality receiver. With the TE skill set they now have, someone with White's running skillset could be an enormous asset. He's not Dion Lewis in terms of making people miss, but I think he brings the 'lightning' element to the party.The roster on offense is also built to do different things out of the same packages without having to sub. White negates that a bit. He's a weapon in a spread offense but I'm not sure he fits as well with what the Pats want to do this season. If I recall, the scouting report on Harris was that he may not be particularly elusive, but he has good hands and is solid in pass protection. We haven't seen him much in that role, but if he at least turned into a credible checkdown option, it would be nice for the offense not to have to put the "PASSING BACK" flashing neon sign on the field.
I took it to mean that only $45M (of the $69M post Brown cap) had been used. YMMVSo they STILL have $45 million of available cap space?
Eh... despite being a change of pace back & teams expecting pass whenever he is on the field, White still only average 4.0 ypc for his career & was at 3.5 this past season & is heading into his age 29 season so not exactly expecting a huge renaissance.I don't agree with that re: White. I think he is a legitimate RB on his own (even if a change of pace), and a quality receiver. With the TE skill set they now have, someone with White's running skillset could be an enormous asset. He's not Dion Lewis in terms of making people miss, but I think he brings the 'lightning' element to the party.
It’s really written terribly. I read it several times trying to figure out exactly what he was saying.I took it to mean that only $45M (of the $69M post Brown cap) had been used. YMMV
Edit #3: But who argues with Miguel?! lol
I can come up with some reasonable front loaded contract structures for the bigger signings that would get me to ~$45mn of cap spaced used up by all the signings. $45 million left is borderline impossible unless a couple of their big money signings took big guaranteed base salaries in year 2-3 in place of large signing bonuses and there are some restructures we don't know about (e.g. Hightower, DMC), and even then it's probably a stretch.I took it to mean that only $45M (of the $69M post Brown cap) had been used. YMMV
Edit #3: But who argues with Miguel?! lol
Here I go Fournette-apologisting again, but I would say the 2020 Bucs are a good illustration of ypc not telling the full story. Jones was a far more explosive player, no doubt. However ball control and receiving both go in Leonard's favor - 1 fumble in the last two years compared to 5 for RJ (0 and 2 last year respectively), and 76% catch rate to 72% (77 to 66 last year). I suspect if it were BB running the Bucs, Fournette would have gotten a lot more playing time given ball security.I think that may well be a usage thing. Like if the Patriots offense involved Sony sitting around waiting for dump offs, I'm sure he could handle it. They just choose to have those wide splits for some reason which leads to a lot of predictability.
A guy like Carson could be that power runner AND actually threaten a defense OR actually pass block. He doesn't have that sheer # of catches in one season, but he has a higher catch % & average 6.2 yards per target.
4net only really got run in the playoffs because RJII was injured. During the regular season he average 1.3 less ypc (5.1 on 192 carries v. 3.8 on 97 carries). There's just not really any evidence he's actually good, & some team will overpay him based on his playoff run. I just don't want it to be us.
Would rather just draft someone in the 3rd round.
Good point, I broke my own rule about remembering these guys are humans first, athletes second.In addition to reuniting with Brady, isn't White's family from FL? Proximity could be important after needing to be away from his mother so soon after the accident last fall.
View: https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1371897591395409923?s=20C Rodney Hudson was released by the Raiders today. Maybe a back up plan if they miss out on Andrew’s resigning?
Just devil's advocate here (not particularly anti-Fournette)... Tampa seems intent on "running it back"... that seems to exclude Fournette so far. So either they don't value him as much as the outside world does, or something else is in play. Perhaps they are deferring to Brady and he prefers White over Fournette given his knowledge of both? If he does, then applying the same reasoning (without even knowing what it is, or if it is true), then I also want White! lol I'm a simple guyHere I go Fournette-apologisting again, but I would say the 2020 Bucs are a good illustration of ypc not telling the full story. Jones was a far more explosive player, no doubt. However ball control and receiving both go in Leonard's favor - 1 fumble in the last two years compared to 5 for RJ (0 and 2 last year respectively), and 76% catch rate to 72% (77 to 66 last year). I suspect if it were BB running the Bucs, Fournette would have gotten a lot more playing time given ball security.
Seems like it's likely moot as the rumor mill seems more specifically honed in on Seattle and TB, but we'll see.
I'm definitely with you on a preference for White, both because I think the money will be shorter and also because I think his skills as a receiver are significant differentiator given the existing presence of Harris and Michel on the roster. While I'm sure a lot more is going on behind the scenes with other teams, it totally is funny that a Seattle/NE/Tampa game of running back musical chairs is in play with it being more about scenery changes than anything else.Just devil's advocate here (not particularly anti-Fournette)... Tampa seems intent on "running it back"... that seems to exclude Fournette so far. So either they don't value him as much as the outside world does, or something else is in play. Perhaps they are deferring to Brady and he prefers White over Fournette given his knowledge of both? If he does, then applying the same reasoning (without even knowing what it is, or if it is true), then I also want White! lol I'm a simple guy
He's more like an upgrade than a back up plan. Perhaps Miami pivots to Hudson so less competition for Andrews?C Rodney Hudson was released by the Raiders today. Maybe a back up plan if they miss out on Andrew’s resigning?
I'm imaging a big color-coded white board with all 31 teams from #1 to #60 or so in BB's office with notes like "Raiders starters - C Rodney Hudson, 72% cut chance with contract and Raiders cap situation"Maybe the Pats had some info Hudson was gonna get released hence the hold-up with Andrews
Was it Coleman who stood like a statue when Hightower made his vital second half sack of Ryan in the Super Bowl or was it their primary back (whose name is slipping my mind ATM)?The list of free agency RBs that can catch the ball and pass block at a competent level looks pretty short if White leaves. Jamaal Williams looks like the best option to me - he can actually run the ball too, so would certainly bring more options on 3rd down in non-obvious passing situations. Tevin Coleman could be interesting as a low cost flyer for a year assuming they draft a back to develop for a year.
Davonta freemanWas it Coleman who stood like a statue when Hightower made his vital second half sack of Ryan in the Super Bowl or was it their primary back (whose name is slipping my mind ATM)?
And didn't he just sign a new multi-year contract recently? Or am I losing all track of time?I’m guessing renegotiation although could be retirement I didn’t realize how old he was
It was Devonta FreemanWas it Coleman who stood like a statue when Hightower made his vital second half sack of Ryan in the Super Bowl or was it their primary back (whose name is slipping my mind ATM)?