Could be playing one off the other for negotiation‘s sake. Any idea who’s the better pass blocker? A big part of White’s game.
Pats FA Day 2: Shock and Awe
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
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Keep digging. Calling a guy who had 76 catches in a season the same as Sony -- who has 26 in his career -- is some real brain genius shit.
Apparently Fournette is awful at pass blocking...
Between 2017 & 2019 he did it about 3 times a game & had a 35.7 PFF rating.
Carson isn't like amazing at it, but appears to be a willing pass blocker & has made some key blocks for RW over the years.
He's a threat in the passing game in that teams have to account for him because they know he'll be used and can do the job in the passing game. Michel is so one-dimensional that when he's on the field, it's a dead giveaway as to whether the Pats are running or passing. Fournette can do both, so at a minimum, it keeps defenses a little on their heels. Which is valuable.
Yeah, I think both view points are accurate. Volume in this case may not indicate adequate quality, but there are catches there. Honestly, I think White would be insane to walk away (unless he got to pair with Brady again, in which case it's all insane). Everything about what BB has just done is to create a mauling power game and having a receiving back to dope slap the teams that try to load up against the run is critical. I don't think that is Fournettte, given the QB we have isn't terribly consistent himself.
In addition to reuniting with Brady, isn't White's family from FL? Proximity could be important after needing to be away from his mother so soon after the accident last fall.
Michel did have 5 catches for 91 after coming back from injury. Not big numbers or anything but it did seem like they were at least starting to get him involved in the passing game in a minimal way. He’ll never be an amazing receiving back, but iirc he was great at catching out of the backfield in college, and even a catch or two a game is enough to keep the defense on their toes a bit
I think that may well be a usage thing. Like if the Patriots offense involved Sony sitting around waiting for dump offs, I'm sure he could handle it. They just choose to have those wide splits for some reason which leads to a lot of predictability.
A guy like Carson could be that power runner AND actually threaten a defense OR actually pass block. He doesn't have that sheer # of catches in one season, but he has a higher catch % & average 6.2 yards per target.
4net only really got run in the playoffs because RJII was injured. During the regular season he average 1.3 less ypc (5.1 on 192 carries v. 3.8 on 97 carries). There's just not really any evidence he's actually good, & some team will overpay him based on his playoff run. I just don't want it to be us.
Would rather just draft someone in the 3rd round.
But the thing is.... that's really more about our coaching staff than a difference in the players' abilities, and that's why I think Fournette is such an awkward fit.
The Patriots haven't traditionally shown an interest in throwing to RBs who aren't good, dynamic receivers. They prefer to use a split, throwing to dynamic guys who can do a lot of things as receivers, and not using many dump-offs to subpar passing backs. Fournette has been in places where due to the coach, or the roster (TB) they gave him targets even if they were mostly dumpoffs and the results were nothing special.
I guess maybe they see Sony as uniquely bad beyond the numbers (though he caught 7/9 with no drops last year) but I think if Sony got more targets his numbers probably look like Fournette's, it just never made sense when you had guys like White.
The list of free agency RBs that can catch the ball and pass block at a competent level looks pretty short if White leaves. Jamaal Williams looks like the best option to me - he can actually run the ball too, so would certainly bring more options on 3rd down in non-obvious passing situations. Tevin Coleman could be interesting as a low cost flyer for a year assuming they draft a back to develop for a year.
The roster on offense is also built to do different things out of the same packages without having to sub. White negates that a bit. He's a weapon in a spread offense but I'm not sure he fits as well with what the Pats want to do this season. If I recall, the scouting report on Harris was that he may not be particularly elusive, but he has good hands and is solid in pass protection. We haven't seen him much in that role, but if he at least turned into a credible checkdown option, it would be nice for the offense not to have to put the "PASSING BACK" flashing neon sign on the field.
I'm talking talent and per-target results. If Sony got 100+ targets I'm sure he'd have at something in the realm of 65-80 catches and 500+ yeard.
That JAX chose to give Fournette 100 dump-offs that he turned into 500 yards doesn't make him significantly better than Sony who turned 40 targets into 260 yards. I don't give guys credit for being better because they were on teams with bad coaches who played to their weaknesses.
Jamal Williams is a JAG & another guy with a -1.3 ypc split compared to the better back on his team.
Coleman would be a fine minimal flyer if healthy. His career yards per target are 7.2.
Williams, Duke Johnson, and Coleman are a few names that stuck out to me. Or could go cheaper with someone like TJ Yeldon or reclamation project Corey Clement.
Unless they are getting really good value for a legit early down back, I like the Harris/Michel combo well enough with the blocking they should have. We know BB isn't afraid of a seemingly crowded RB room, especially with some of the injury histories these guys have. But if the OL is what we hope, seems silly to really spend on someone like Carson.
Can this be right?
From
https://apps.bostonglobe.com/sports/graphics/2021/03/rebuilding-the-new-england-patriots/
From
https://apps.bostonglobe.com/sports/graphics/2021/03/rebuilding-the-new-england-patriots/
Duke is pretty interesting...he kinda sucked last year, but that could just be a Texans thing & might make him available at a reasonable price.
Yeah, he's supposed to be pretty decent at pass blocking & can line up in the slot etc. If the price is right, definitely wouldn't be a bad White replacement.
I mean they got to 7-9 despite not having an NFL TE and the 6th best WR corps in the ACC. Given good TEs and some competent receivers I'm pretty sure they can add more than one win.
That seems impossible. If it’s true I’m gonna have to change my pants for the 8th time in 24 hours
All I did was send a text and got back “[blank] told me it’s the right number”.
I have no clue, I can’t even pretend to understand the cap lol. Just figured I’d pass it along, as it’s pretty harmless information. If it’s wrong, you can all ridicule me mercilessly.
I don't agree with that re: White. I think he is a legitimate RB on his own (even if a change of pace), and a quality receiver. With the TE skill set they now have, someone with White's running skillset could be an enormous asset. He's not Dion Lewis in terms of making people miss, but I think he brings the 'lightning' element to the party.
There is no way that Globe number is correct/accounts for all of their signings, and it strikes me as a shitty projection if that’s the angle.
To wit, sensei Miguel says:
View: https://twitter.com/patscap/status/1371862074603765761?s=21
It wouldn’t be possible for the aggregate cap figures for those guys to be only 11M in 2021, in other words.
To wit, sensei Miguel says:
View: https://twitter.com/patscap/status/1371862074603765761?s=21
It wouldn’t be possible for the aggregate cap figures for those guys to be only 11M in 2021, in other words.
I took it to mean that only $45M (of the $69M post Brown cap) had been used. YMMV
Edit #3: But who argues with Miguel?! lol
Miguel is obviously the best, I’d listen to whatever he says. My bad for the crap information, guess this is why I shouldn’t just pass things along in the moment.
Eh... despite being a change of pace back & teams expecting pass whenever he is on the field, White still only average 4.0 ypc for his career & was at 3.5 this past season & is heading into his age 29 season so not exactly expecting a huge renaissance.
He was 1 of my favorite players for years, but I'm pretty sure it's time to move on.
It’s really written terribly. I read it several times trying to figure out exactly what he was saying.
I can come up with some reasonable front loaded contract structures for the bigger signings that would get me to ~$45mn of cap spaced used up by all the signings. $45 million left is borderline impossible unless a couple of their big money signings took big guaranteed base salaries in year 2-3 in place of large signing bonuses and there are some restructures we don't know about (e.g. Hightower, DMC), and even then it's probably a stretch.
Here I go Fournette-apologisting again, but I would say the 2020 Bucs are a good illustration of ypc not telling the full story. Jones was a far more explosive player, no doubt. However ball control and receiving both go in Leonard's favor - 1 fumble in the last two years compared to 5 for RJ (0 and 2 last year respectively), and 76% catch rate to 72% (77 to 66 last year). I suspect if it were BB running the Bucs, Fournette would have gotten a lot more playing time given ball security.
Seems like it's likely moot as the rumor mill seems more specifically honed in on Seattle and TB, but we'll see.
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I started to do a full blunt force breakdown estimating cap left... but the fact is they should be wayyyy over based on AAV & even using a normal slightly reduced 1st year structure (maybe $15m over?) so they're probably going full Thuney on these & might not even be finalizing the full details until they figure out exactly what they'll need to do to make everything work.
Good point, I broke my own rule about remembering these guys are humans first, athletes second.
View: https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1371897591395409923?s=20
He's going to have a pretty solid market...
Just devil's advocate here (not particularly anti-Fournette)... Tampa seems intent on "running it back"... that seems to exclude Fournette so far. So either they don't value him as much as the outside world does, or something else is in play. Perhaps they are deferring to Brady and he prefers White over Fournette given his knowledge of both? If he does, then applying the same reasoning (without even knowing what it is, or if it is true), then I also want White! lol I'm a simple guy
I'm definitely with you on a preference for White, both because I think the money will be shorter and also because I think his skills as a receiver are significant differentiator given the existing presence of Harris and Michel on the roster. While I'm sure a lot more is going on behind the scenes with other teams, it totally is funny that a Seattle/NE/Tampa game of running back musical chairs is in play with it being more about scenery changes than anything else.Just devil's advocate here (not particularly anti-Fournette)... Tampa seems intent on "running it back"... that seems to exclude Fournette so far. So either they don't value him as much as the outside world does, or something else is in play. Perhaps they are deferring to Brady and he prefers White over Fournette given his knowledge of both? If he does, then applying the same reasoning (without even knowing what it is, or if it is true), then I also want White! lol I'm a simple guy
He's more like an upgrade than a back up plan. Perhaps Miami pivots to Hudson so less competition for Andrews?
I'm imaging a big color-coded white board with all 31 teams from #1 to #60 or so in BB's office with notes like "Raiders starters - C Rodney Hudson, 72% cut chance with contract and Raiders cap situation"
Posted in cap tracker thread, but putting here also:
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/patscap/status/1371926227376861192
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/patscap/status/1371926227376861192
Was it Coleman who stood like a statue when Hightower made his vital second half sack of Ryan in the Super Bowl or was it their primary back (whose name is slipping my mind ATM)?
