They should definitely play to win.
Depends on their record but 12-14th.If the C's don't make it out of the play-in tournament, which appears increasingly likely, what pick would they probably end up with? (Assuming they don't win the lottery.)
Thanks in advance.
They'll survive the play in. Nothing has gone right yet, so why start now?If the C's don't make it out of the play-in tournament, which appears increasingly likely, what pick would they probably end up with? (Assuming they don't win the lottery.)
Thanks in advance.
So we can get all excited about a top 4 pick just to end up with the 14th.They'll survive the play in. Nothing has gone right yet, so why start now?
They have a decent shot of losing tonight in Cleveland too.The Celtics have to lose to two of the Hornets, Wizards, and Pacers to have a shot at the lottery. While I'd prefer that outcome as a fan, I know the players and the coach will be doing everything they can to avoid it. So my default expectation remains a broom job in the first round.
It's basically impossible to get much better than the 14th pick. You can't tank with 5 games left.We're all rooting for a huge crash and burn as deep into the lotto as possible now, right?
It's pretty hilarious that the Celtics own pick might be better than the Mem or SAC ones.
14th would imply we had the best record out of the non playoff teams. That may not be the case. Memphis and GSW could miss the playoffs and both have better records than us.It's basically impossible to get much better than the 14th pick. You can't tank with 5 games left.
And I'm old enough to remember Tyler Herro going at 13 and not 14.14th would imply we had the best record out of the non playoff teams. That may not be the case. Memphis and GSW could miss the playoffs and both have better records than us.
And Haliburton at 12... although that's not looking as awful as it was a few months ago. Really, last year's draft is looking pretty sweet with AN+PP. Who knows who they would have picked at 30 though.And I'm old enough to remember Tyler Herro going at 13 and not 14.
Yep. No Jaylen. No Kemba. No Time Lord.They have a decent shot of losing tonight in Cleveland too.
No motivation.Yep. No Jaylen. No Kemba. No Time Lord.
Are you hearing chatter about this from your sources?No motivation.
No sense of urgency.
No leadership.
Nope. Simply looking beyond a spreadsheet which is available for all of us.Are you hearing chatter about this from your sources?
What spreadsheet?Nope. Simply looking beyond a spreadsheet which is available for all of us.
The box score comment has nothing to do with watching the games, although I get that's an old insult thrown around in baseball.HRB occasionally lets slip that he has sources close to the Celtics IIRC and that he sometimes hears things. If this is his eye-test conclusions, then so be it but mine was a legitimate question.
As for the spreadsheet box score comment, I have no idea how to prove this but it feels like I am on the extreme end of NBA game watching in this forum. What that means is that I spend a lot of time watching the sport but I don't think that qualifies me for making a real, good faith attempt at measuring things like motivation, leadership and a sense of urgency. My life experience is such that even with all of those factors present, you can still fail at something but I understand everyone is different.
Back on topic, the C's don't need any more young pieces so even if they had a viable path to a higher pick available to them its not clear how beneficial it will be. It feels like adding at least league average NBA talent to this roster for next season given where they are in their development cycle is the way to go. Of course, if they had a shot at a legit lottery player, that changes things but that ship has sailed.
I think it is a severe case of overthinking if you need sources to recognize that we lack in those areas I mentioned. Scal has been calling out the team on the broadcasts to a degree without getting himself in trouble. Even Ainge had to bite his tongue for much of the broadcast the night he was on. I mean what I’m saying isn’t exactly a hot take.HRB occasionally lets slip that he has sources close to the Celtics IIRC and that he sometimes hears things. If this is his eye-test conclusions, then so be it but mine was a legitimate question.
As for the spreadsheet box score comment, I have no idea how to prove this but it feels like I am on the extreme end of NBA game watching in this forum. What that means is that I spend a lot of time watching the sport but I don't think that qualifies me for making a real, good faith attempt at measuring things like motivation, leadership and a sense of urgency. My life experience is such that even with all of those factors present, you can still fail at something but I understand everyone is different.
Back on topic, the C's don't need any more young pieces so even if they had a viable path to a higher pick available to them its not clear how beneficial it will be. It feels like adding at least league average NBA talent to this roster for next season given where they are in their development cycle is the way to go. Of course, if they had a shot at a legit lottery player, that changes things but that ship has sailed.
I don't disagree that you saw those things. Where we might disagree is on the cause. Given that we have seen Jayson Tatum progress over the past few seasons, I tend to believe him when he attributes some of his struggles to COVID even if some of his issues are partially from him continuing to learn and mature. Furthermore, when you add in the comments by Thompson, Fournier and others about the impact of COVID, its plausible that what we are seeing isn't as really a function of poor effort and motivation but instead a lack of oxygen.I think it is a severe case of overthinking if you need sources to recognize that we lack in those areas I mentioned. Scal has been calling out the team on the broadcasts to a degree without getting himself in trouble. Even Ainge had to bite his tongue for much of the broadcast the night he was on. I mean what I’m saying isn’t exactly a hot take.
We don’t have to look further than the past week to see:
* Tatum lackadaisically leaving the ball in the backcourt for an opponent to pick it up and lay it in as he sulks. Players regularly appearing confused at their teammates defensive actions against standard offensive sets.
* Come out jogging up and down the floor in giving up 47 1Q points in one of the few real important games of the regular season from the players perspective. Zero sense of urgency
* Having a second chance two night later against the same team and continually miss second half assignments while not recognizing when Dragic is looking to slice your throat until he’s already completed the task. They simply were not competing. If anyone stuck around to watch the Knicks and Lakers compete hard for 48+5 minutes it looked like two different leagues.
Re: Sources. The two primary ones were Simmons (who had the real inside contact) in the mid-2000’s when we had our private board that some here were part of. That dried up when one of our members decided it was a good time to challenge someone as thin-skinned as Bill. Oh well. We did know about the Ricky Davis trade being a done deal two days before it was even a rumor anywhere. There were a couple others too. My guy is still the Travel guy for the team who came over with Pitino (they were golfing buddies). We go way back but even though his number is still in my contacts we haven’t spoken since the Pierce days. Those were some funny stories.
There's a pretty good chance that they can finish behind a couple of the .500 teams out west. They do have a good chance of 0fering the rest of the games.It's basically impossible to get much better than the 14th pick. You can't tank with 5 games left.
I did the math wrong, they're probably 13 if they are in the lottery, because the 9 in the West is likely to be better.There's a pretty good chance that they can finish behind a couple of the .500 teams out west. They do have a good chance of 0fering the rest of the games.
Length and athleticism, Kai would tic those boxes for sure. Thomas is my nightmare pick.Givony mocked Cameron Thomas at #16, which does nothing for me. He can shoot, but he's a below the rim wing, who's just an okay athlete and doesn't defend or create for others. If they keep the pick, I'd rather roll the dice on a Kai Jones type and hope the skill catches up to the athleticism and length. I liked Nick Claxton a lot coming out and Jones is sort of in that mold. I also like Sharife Cooper; I don't know that Boston needs a ball-dominant PG, particularly one who doesn't shoot it particularly well at the moment. But he's an 83% FT shooter, so maybe the jumper comes around and you have something valuable (even if his lack of size is going to always be a defensive issue). Really fast and creative, and probably makes a nice compliment to Pritchard.
Where does the smurfs thing come from? The Celtics have used their top pick the past 5 years on: Jaylen, Jayson, TL, Romeo, and Nesmith. They've taken some shots lower in the draft on guys with worse measurables, but they consistently have tried to use top picks on big, long, fast guys.Length and athleticism, Kai would tic those boxes for sure. Thomas is my nightmare pick.
And no more smurfs.
The team has a lot of smurfs.Where does the smurfs thing come from? The Celtics have used their top pick the past 5 years on: Jaylen, Jayson, TL, Romeo, and Nesmith. They've taken some shots lower in the draft on guys with worse measurables, but they consistently have tried to use top picks on big, long, fast guys.
Yeah, I think we both agree that the back of the rotation is fungible enough not to get too hung up on it, and the bigger issue with Ainge was his inability to fill those slots with vets.The team has a lot of smurfs.
They've also drafted 2 or 3 in the last 2 years depending on your take of PP. Then there is Grant Williams.
They don't use top picks on them though, outside of KO.
I don't know if this applies to Ainge specifically, but when people get hung up on "good" or "bad" deals in the sub-max contract range you lose out on a lot of opportunities to get solid vets. Of course the Fournier trade (and presumably extension) shows that this isn't always the case as far as the Celtics are concerned.Yeah, I think we both agree that the back of the rotation is fungible enough not to get too hung up on it, and the bigger issue with Ainge was his inability to fill those slots with vets.
It's reasonable to take shots but Ainge wasted too many roster spots with shots and not vets.Yeah, I think we both agree that the back of the rotation is fungible enough not to get too hung up on it, and the bigger issue with Ainge was his inability to fill those slots with vets.
I think it's reasonable to take shots at guys with worse measurables in the back of the 1st/2nd round. You have to trade off something to try to hit gems later in the draft.
It comes from looking at the roster and seeing Waters, Edwards, Kemba and PP all on it. Plus undersized 4's like Semi and GW. Feels like every night we're smaller than the opposition. It's also tongue some what in cheek.Where does the smurfs thing come from? The Celtics have used their top pick the past 5 years on: Jaylen, Jayson, TL, Romeo, and Nesmith. They've taken some shots lower in the draft on guys with worse measurables, but they consistently have tried to use top picks on big, long, fast guys.
Pretty obvious why Hollinger is no longer an NBA exec lolFor what was billed as a bounce-back talent pool after last year's meh crop, it's hard to imagine anyone exciting being there at #16 looking at the various big boards. I'm sure Hollinger's Athletic article was discussed in one of the various threads here (Kemba, Thompson, #16 for Horford). At this point, I'd attach that pick to Kemba to get out of the contract. IDK if OKC would be interested enough in acquiring another pick to make that deal, but I think it makes sense from Boston's perspective.
I don't mind Hollinger. His columns for The Athletic are lively, even if his takes often miss the mark. It's interesting to hear from a former NBA executive.Pretty obvious why Hollinger is no longer an NBA exec lol
I guess this is where I am with him too.I don't mind Hollinger. His columns for The Athletic are lively, even if his takes often miss the mark. It's interesting to hear from a former NBA executive.
How high is Giddey supposed to go? A recent mock had him falling to the Celtics (maybe Sam Vecenie?)Assuming we don’t move up for Barnes or Giddey the guys at the top of my wish list are:
1. Jaden Springer, Tennessee - Assuming we move Smart this summer rather than lose/overpay next summer, we replace the physicality and defensive aggression at his position.
Gap to.....
2. Tre Mann, Florida - Made for NBA game. Smooth combo guard with size and shooting range for today’s game.
3. Day’ron Sharpe, UNC - The physical/contract uncertainty of TL moving forward along, TT likely in final year, and trade of Theis leaves gaping hole at 5 long term. The kid is raw but has the physicals and the willingness/energy to defend.
Who are you saying is Hayward 2.0? Not sure if JJ is Jalen Johnson or someone elseIf Barnes slips out of the top ten I expect Boston to make a major offer to land him. He's the perfect athletic, playmaking wing to line up alongside the JayCrew. Jalen Johnson isn't the athlete or playmaker that Barnes is, but has a much better jumper and overall offensive game. But he has the Cam Reddish flags on him at the moment. I would expect Boston to make a major offer to trade up for JJ if he tumbles as he'd basically be Hayward v2.0.
KOC at the Ringer did in his first mock. Vecenie on his draft pod had the Celtics taking Sengun explaining that he’d be a good complement to Robert Williams.How high is Giddey supposed to go? A recent mock had him falling to the Celtics (maybe Sam Vecenie?)
Jalen Johnson. He’s a bigger wing with an all round offensive game including some playmaking ability. Much like Hayward. Barnes is on another level as a playmaker. But his jumper is broken and Aaron Gordon v1.1 is a real possibility with him.Who are you saying is Hayward 2.0? Not sure if JJ is Jalen Johnson or someone else
I have seen Giddey in the Top-12 of every mock I’ve seen except KOC’s. Springer and Mann were in the low teens on just about all except each cracked the Top-10 on an outlier and I believe one had Springer at 8 (which is close to where I have him).How high is Giddey supposed to go? A recent mock had him falling to the Celtics (maybe Sam Vecenie?)
Not necessarily. Charlotte desperately needs guards bigger than 6'1" and have a lot of Fs. So I think that there might be opportunities there for Boston. Especially given that the Hornets already have a better PG and with Barnes there's a real danger that he's just Aaron Gordon v1.1.If Barnes slips #11/12 team will scoop him up much like Haliburton was the steal of last season's draft.
Wouldn't Aaron Gordon 1.1 be a pretty good outcome with a 11/12 pick?Not necessarily. Charlotte desperately needs guards bigger than 6'1" and have a lot of Fs. So I think that there might be opportunities there for Boston. Especially given that the Hornets already have a better PG and with Barnes there's a real danger that he's just Aaron Gordon v1.1.