2021 Celtics LVSL Game Thread

wade boggs chicken dinner · Aug 8, 2021

osori said:
Wish granted.

well PP took 15 threes, so maybe he took too many.

Also wasn't thrilled that PP couldn't finish at the rim in SL. He really needs to figure out something when he drives - maybe a floater or something. OTOH, he does seem determined to add another of couple of feet to his range.

radsoxfan · Aug 8, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Agreed on Romeo. He did the things he’ll be asked to do in Boston very well. He defended well and knocked down 3 three’s. He did things that he won’t be asked to do in Boston very poorly.....which I’m not too concerned about. He’s looking more and more like your prototypical 3-and-D corner shooter.

Nesmith. I have never been impressed with his game since we drafted him and today was no different. Hopefully he becomes a 3-and-D guy but first you have to be able to shoot......

If we have already relegated Romeo to 3 and D territory, that’s another reason to prefer Nesmith to me.

Romeo’s offense upside was apparently as a slasher and creator but he can’t dribble, beat his man, pass, or finish.

I don’t see any reason to think Romeo will be as good of a shooter as Nesmith. If they’re both competing for 3 and D minutes, I think Nesmith’s D has been solid enough to prefer him at this point.

TripleOT · Aug 8, 2021

Madar disrupted the Hawks offense the minute he came in the game. It seemed like he had double digit deflections in his short minutes. I’m not ready to ship him back overseas just yet. He showed good instincts on both sides of the ball, and as mentioned above, showed off a sweet floater, a shot smurfy Celtics haven’t gone to a lot recently.

One of the early raps on Begarin was that he couldn’t shoot, and couldn’t make the right pass off the drive and dish. He looked ok on his two makes from deep, and made a key drive and dish in crunch time, which Nesmith promptly bricked. Then he made the game sealing steal. Great body, serious length, moves well. I would rather have him develop in the G league, but either way, he could be a player down the road.

Romeo rewarded his personal coach Joe Mazzulla by hitting the game winning three. I thought he did a bunch of good things today, but needs to tighten up his dribble for sure. Edwards filled up the stat sheet, but I will be happy if they move on from him. Nesmith needs to make shots.

PP doing exactly what was needed from him, by running the show, and taking and making a bunch of threes. I am on record as believing he will exceed the expect many on this board have for him, and become an effective PG, either as a starter, or as a sixth man who plays offense in crunch time.

Cellar-Door · Aug 8, 2021

radsoxfan said:
If we have already relegated Romeo to 3 and D territory, that’s another reason to prefer Nesmith to me.

Romeo’s offense upside was apparently as a slasher and creator but he can’t dribble, beat his man, pass, or finish.

I don’t see any reason to think Romeo will be as good of a shooter as Nesmith. If they’re both competing for 3 and D minutes, I think Nesmith’s D has been solid enough to prefer him at this point.

I think you need as many 3 and D wings as you can get, and I think the upsides on each are different.
Nesmith is a guy who you hope is an elite shooter and a good defender, Romeo is a guy you hope is an elite defender and a good shooter.

I doubt Romeo wlll ever be a 40% 3pt shooter (though Crowder gives some hope for really bad to really good swing), but he looks like a guy who will be a very good defender 1-3 (maybe even 1-4). Nesmith on the other hand I don't think can cover 1s, but his shot is a lot closer.

I also don't think we should give up on Romeo's handle just yet. He hasn't had any real time to work the way you need to because of injuries, it took Jaylen a couple offseasons to get his handle up, but when he did it was a massive leap for his overall game.

TripleOT · Aug 8, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Agreed on Romeo. He did the things he’ll be asked to do in Boston very well. He defended well and knocked down 3 three’s. He did things that he won’t be asked to do in Boston very poorly.....which I’m not too concerned about. He’s looking more and more like your prototypical 3-and-D corner shooter.

Nesmith. I have never been impressed with his game since we drafted him and today was no different. Hopefully he becomes a 3-and-D guy but first you have to be able to shoot......1-8 isnt relevant when half came off his trying to create his shot which he simply isn’t capable of but of more concern were the several open catch and shoots he bricked. Disclaimer: G1 of SL and all.

Yeah, Madar isn’t physically ready but he’s got spunk and I’ll bet he returns next summer looking different physically.

Nothing to see with Pritchard. We know what he is and I don’t expect him to play more than 1-2 more SL games......possibly same with Romeo.

So these players will never get any better in your view.

Nesmith will never be able to create his own offense.

Romeo will never be able to put the ball on the floor.

Pritchard will never be able to run the point successfully.

kazuneko · Aug 9, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Nesmith will improve by making shots and not forcing his offense as he has a woefully slow first step. This is part of his growth but no it isn’t likely he’s ever going to be a shot creator with his skill set.

Romeo also has to realize his limitations to not expose them while improving his strengths. Again, this comes with maturity. Some players get it and others don’t.

Pritchard is similar to Smart in that they will never been full time 1’s but can run an offense against second units or in spot minites against certain matchups.

I’m much more confident in Romeo and Pritchard carving out a niche in this league as quality role players than Nesmith.....with Romeo having the better upside due to his defensive switch ability and expected improvement on corner 3.

What’s frustrating about Romeo is how much of his offensive game just hasn’t translated. At lower levels there was a controlled shiftiness to his inside game that was reminiscent of DeMar Derozan. But somehow he just doesn’t seem to be able to pull this off at the NBA level and tonight it seemed like his handle wasn’t up to the challenge even against summer league defenses. Outside of hid 3s did he even score? Seemed like every attempt to create his own offense led to a strip..

Fishy1 · Aug 9, 2021

kazuneko said:
What’s frustrating about Romeo is how much of his offensive game just hasn’t translated. At lower levels there was a controlled shiftiness to his inside game that was reminiscent of DeMar Derozan. But somehow he just doesn’t seem to be able to pull this off at the NBA level and tonight it seemed like his handle wasn’t up to the challenge even against summer league defenses. Outside of hid 3s did he even score? Seemed like every attempt to create his own offense led to a strip..

And there was the finger-roll that turned into a charge against Jordan Bell, who's at risk of falling out of the league.

As others have noted, there was never a roll man on the floor competent enough to allow Pritchard or Langford the room they need to operate, but that just speaks to their weakness at gaining separation - which was supposed to be Langford's strength. Both of them seem to need a good roll man if they're going to get their offense inside the arc going. Just my eye test, but my eye test also thought Sam Hauser was looking good until almost the entire thread slapped some sense into me. Anyway, I agree Langford still has a shot as an octopus defender, but I'm not sure he'll ever be more than that.

I think Pritchard still has PG upside, but he'll need to have a trigger this quick all the time and a willingness to take tough floaters, a la Trae Young, if he wants to open his game up. Presently he looks like he'll never be more than a 4-5 assist per game kind of guy, but again, if he becomes a gravity well around the logo, it's a whole different story. It's a lot easier to find open teammates if defense are throwing defenders at you six feet behind the arc than it is for him presently, trying to get open with his dribble on the wing. It's probably a 95% projection or whatever, but the upside is there.

pjheff · Aug 9, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Nesmith will improve by making shots and not forcing his offense as he has a woefully slow first step. This is part of his growth but no it isn’t likely he’s ever going to be a shot creator with his skill set.

Did Nesmith look huge out there to anyone else? I don’t know if he had a late growth spurt like Jaylen or a new reported height like Jayson, but he seemed appreciably bigger than our other wings.

kazuneko said:
What’s frustrating about Romeo is how much of his offensive game just hasn’t translated. At lower levels there was a controlled shiftiness to his inside game that was reminiscent of DeMar Derozan. But somehow he just doesn’t seem to be able to pull this off at the NBA level and tonight it seemed like his handle wasn’t up to the challenge even against summer league defenses. Outside of hid 3s did he even score? Seemed like every attempt to create his own offense led to a strip..

Aside from his assorted injuries, recoveries, and lost developmental time, he just hasn’t been utilized in that capacity through the first 50 games of his career.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Aug 9, 2021

kazuneko said:
Outside of hid 3s did he even score? Seemed like every attempt to create his own offense led to a strip..

Yes. He had a FB basket (IIRC) in the 1Q. He also had the finger roll as F1 mentioned that was super close to being a block (not just that Bell slid over late but I thought his foot might have been on the line).

I know that RL didn't do much to dispel doubts but I'm still hopeful.

Jimbodandy · Aug 9, 2021

pjheff said:
Did Nesmith look huge out there to anyone else? I don’t know if he had a late growth spurt like Jaylen or a new reported height like Jayson, but he seemed appreciably bigger than our other wings.

I didn't notice a height difference, but I thought that he looked a little beefier.

Kliq · Aug 9, 2021

Nesmith to me came out as a guy who had been putting in work and was expecting to dominate SL now that he has some NBA experience, and he was trying to do too much offensively and it didn't work out in Game 1.

Romeo has been beaten to death in this thread and across the forum; I thought he was fine in this game. The shot looked good; we will see if he has any more success going to the basket later in SL, but he looks like a potentially useful player this year.

I don't see a reason why PP can't be a point guard. Is he ever going to be Steve Nash probing around the paint? No, but he is a great ball handler and if he can knock shots around and at least set players up to catch the ball in good spots to go ISO, he will get plenty of minutes at the 1.

Hauser looked overmatched on defense when switched on to Cooper, but again, first game of SL so we will see if he is able to adjust at all. His game will come down to him making shots, he didn't yesterday but he could go 5-7 from downtown in the next game and people will be demanding he gets a spot in the regular rotation.

Cellar-Door · Aug 9, 2021

Kliq said:
Nesmith to me came out as a guy who had been putting in work and was expecting to dominate SL now that he has some NBA experience, and he was trying to do too much offensively and it didn't work out in Game 1.

Romeo has been beaten to death in this thread and across the forum; I thought he was fine in this game. The shot looked good; we will see if he has any more success going to the basket later in SL, but he looks like a potentially useful player this year.

I don't see a reason why PP can't be a point guard. Is he ever going to be Steve Nash probing around the paint? No, but he is a great ball handler and if he can knock shots around and at least set players up to catch the ball in good spots to go ISO, he will get plenty of minutes at the 1.

Hauser looked overmatched on defense when switched on to Cooper, but again, first game of SL so we will see if he is able to adjust at all. His game will come down to him making shots, he didn't yesterday but he could go 5-7 from downtown in the next game and people will be demanding he gets a spot in the regular rotation.

PP has some ups and downs as a passer yesterday. I think when people say he isn't a PG (I agree) it's less that he won't play at the 1 than he doesn't really run and offense very well or see the floor great. Yesterday I saw some real positives... like that whipped pass to Edwards for a layup (that he missed) and some negatives (blown lob, not anticipating on a fastbreak and leaving it behind the other player (Nesmith recovered for a layup buy against an NBA defense that probably gets broken up) whipping a pass to the man at the top of the key through traffic (Was inches beyond the defender, Edwards caught it off target and moved to the open man for a 3, but in the NBA it's probably picked off and a breakout the other way).
PP isn't terrible for a backup PG because he can create his own shot and he's a willing passer, he just isn't an instinctive one, and he doesn't see the floor that well, so he has a lot of missed opportunities and poor execution.

Kliq · Aug 9, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
PP has some ups and downs as a passer yesterday. I think when people say he isn't a PG (I agree) it's less that he won't play at the 1 than he doesn't really run and offense very well or see the floor great. Yesterday I saw some real positives... like that whipped pass to Edwards for a layup (that he missed) and some negatives (blown lob, not anticipating on a fastbreak and leaving it behind the other player (Nesmith recovered for a layup buy against an NBA defense that probably gets broken up) whipping a pass to the man at the top of the key through traffic (Was inches beyond the defender, Edwards caught it off target and moved to the open man for a 3, but in the NBA it's probably picked off and a breakout the other way).
PP isn't terrible for a backup PG because he can create his own shot and he's a willing passer, he just isn't an instinctive one, and he doesn't see the floor that well, so he has a lot of missed opportunities and poor execution.

Most point guards don't really do this anymore. It's just a way the NBA has been played for the last several seasons that the traditional role of the PG does not require a Nash/Kidd/Stockton/Magic type presence. Ball-dominant wings are the people who run the offense from different positions on the floor, or in some cases, passing Centers working from the elbows and the top of the key. I don't think its a necessity for whoever the Celtics PG is to be able to distribute at that level; the pass-first PGs really don't exist and I think its a reason people really overrate players like Lonzo.

Cellar-Door · Aug 9, 2021

Kliq said:
Most point guards don't really do this anymore. It's just a way the NBA has been played for the last several seasons that the traditional role of the PG does not require a Nash/Kidd/Stockton/Magic type presence. Ball-dominant wings are the people who run the offense from different positions on the floor, or in some cases, passing Centers working from the elbows and the top of the key. I don't think its a necessity for whoever the Celtics PG is to be able to distribute at that level; the pass-first PGs really don't exist and I think its a reason people really overrate players like Lonzo.

Yeah I get that most PGs are combo guards, but I do think PP has subpar court vision and I think that is an important skill for NBA guards who are going to be ballhandlers. If PP is going to be the one bringing the ball up the court and initiating the offense I think he needs to improve a lot there, because even combo guards, the ability to see the floor and read a defense is key, having someone who is poor at it probably costs you 3-5 easy buckets a game. I think of a Kyrie or Kemba, neither is even close to a pass first PG, but they were much better at seeing the passes early in the clock and getting guys easy buckets. PP doesn't see (or isn't looking) it's why last year the 2nd unit would run such bad offense and then Kemba would come in and it would run much better even if his shot was ice cold.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

Kliq said:
Most point guards don't really do this anymore. It's just a way the NBA has been played for the last several seasons that the traditional role of the PG does not require a Nash/Kidd/Stockton/Magic type presence. Ball-dominant wings are the people who run the offense from different positions on the floor, or in some cases, passing Centers working from the elbows and the top of the key. I don't think its a necessity for whoever the Celtics PG is to be able to distribute at that level; the pass-first PGs really don't exist and I think its a reason people really overrate players like Lonzo.

Except no one thinks Lonzo is a pass first PG or a traditional one. If Lonzo is overrated, it's because of his length.

Fishy1 · Aug 9, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
Yeah I get that most PGs are combo guards, but I do think PP has subpar court vision and I think that is an important skill for NBA guards who are going to be ballhandlers. If PP is going to be the one bringing the ball up the court and initiating the offense I think he needs to improve a lot there, because even combo guards, the ability to see the floor and read a defense is key, having someone who is poor at it probably costs you 3-5 easy buckets a game. I think of a Kyrie or Kemba, neither is even close to a pass first PG, but they were much better at seeing the passes early in the clock and getting guys easy buckets. PP doesn't see (or isn't looking) it's why last year the 2nd unit would run such bad offense and then Kemba would come in and it would run much better even if his shot was ice cold.

Well, are we talking about his projection or him as a finished product? After all, he was a first year guard.

Pritchard is a extremely coordinated and hard-working guard with an excellent handle and an already elite skill in distance shooting. I'm sure he recognizes the weaknesses in his own game. Foreclosing the possibility that he'll improve as a passer when we've seen guys with much worse vision and handles do it all the time seems to me to be shortsighted. It's funny to see names like Nash or Kemba thrown around: Steve Nash didn't average 5 ast/game till he was 24. He didn't get to 7/game till he was 26. Kemba has pretty much constantly had the ball in his hands his entire career and he's never averaged more than six.

Pritchard, with all his current warts, has a ton of upside. I'm really excited to see what he does playing next to playmaking bigs and talented wings. I think he should be shooting 5+ threes a game and if given the opportunity will average more than 4 assists a gam next year.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

Fishy1 said:
Well, are we talking about his projection or him as a finished product? After all, he was a first year guard.

Pritchard is a extremely coordinated and hard-working guard with an excellent handle and an already elite skill in distance shooting. I'm sure he recognizes the weaknesses in his own game. Foreclosing the possibility that he'll improve as a passer when we've seen guys with much worse vision and handles do it all the time seems to me to be shortsighted. It's funny to see names like Nash or Kemba thrown around: Steve Nash didn't average 5 ast/game till he was 24. He didn't get to 7/game till he was 26. Kemba has pretty much constantly had the ball in his hands his entire career and he's never averaged more than six.

Pritchard, with all his current warts, has a ton of upside. I'm really excited to see what he does playing next to playmaking bigs and talented wings. I think he should be shooting 5+ threes a game and if given the opportunity will average more than 4 assists a gam next year.

A first year guard who was 23 years old and isn't a world class athlete. He has far less projection.

edit: You are also fixated on APG rather than Assist %. If you focused on assist %, you would see why your Nash comparison falls flat. AKA Nash's was more than 2 times better his rookie season.

Kliq · Aug 9, 2021

Cellar-Door said:
Yeah I get that most PGs are combo guards, but I do think PP has subpar court vision and I think that is an important skill for NBA guards who are going to be ballhandlers. If PP is going to be the one bringing the ball up the court and initiating the offense I think he needs to improve a lot there, because even combo guards, the ability to see the floor and read a defense is key, having someone who is poor at it probably costs you 3-5 easy buckets a game. I think of a Kyrie or Kemba, neither is even close to a pass first PG, but they were much better at seeing the passes early in the clock and getting guys easy buckets. PP doesn't see (or isn't looking) it's why last year the 2nd unit would run such bad offense and then Kemba would come in and it would run much better even if his shot was ice cold.

Yeah, I think that is pretty fair. I think when he first was drafted a lot of people assumed he would be a pure, classic PG, but he ended up being more of a score-first guy off the bench. My checklist, in order, for things I want PP to do well if he is playing 20+ mpg:

1. Shoot well from three

2. Defend at a high-level against like-sized guards

3. Throw good entry passes.

4. Get to the basket to drive-and-kick

More Pritchard minutes with our best players will probably tell us a lot. The Celtics bench was so bad offensively last season that it's hard to get a read on what Pritchard can do as a point guard playing with a lot of offensive talent and not with Grant/Semi/Nesmith/TT, etc.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

Kliq said:
Yeah, I think that is pretty fair. I think when he first was drafted a lot of people assumed he would be a pure, classic PG, but he ended up being more of a score-first guy off the bench. My checklist, in order, for things I want PP to do well if he is playing 20+ mpg:

1. Shoot well from three

2. Defend at a high-level against like-sized guards

3. Throw good entry passes.

4. Get to the basket to drive-and-kick

More Pritchard minutes with our best players will probably tell us a lot. The Celtics bench was so bad offensively last season that it's hard to get a read on what Pritchard can do as a point guard playing with a lot of offensive talent and not with Grant/Semi/Nesmith/TT, etc.

Do you think he has the physical skills for 2? I think he may be a good enough shooter to get 20+ minutes a night regardless.

Kliq · Aug 9, 2021

Cesar Crespo said:
Do you think he has the physical skills for 2? I think he may be a good enough shooter to get 20+ minutes a night regardless.

Simmons mentioned something last week that I found interesting in that teams are so obsessed with length and versatility on defense (with good reason) that there is kind of a shortage of shorter players that have the agility to sneak around screens and pester other smaller players. What makes that strange is that their are a bunch of 6'3" and shorter offensive superstars that need shutting-down (Kyrie, Dame, Steph, Trae, Ja, CP3, Fox, etc.) and while its great to attack those players with length; having someone with the agility and determination to bug them all over the court is a good skill to have and there are not a ton of players in the league that work that hard defensively that can do that. PP will always be a limited defender due to his size, but I don't see a reason why he couldn't be a good defender against like-sized players.

Fishy1 · Aug 9, 2021

Cesar Crespo said:
A first year guard who was 23 years old and isn't a world class athlete. He has far less projection.

edit: You are also fixated on APG rather than Assist %. If you focused on assist %, you would see why your Nash comparison falls flat. AKA Nash's was more than 2 times better his rookie season.

I don't think I articulated myself very well. I'm trying to suggest he has projection in that particular part of his game, and I didn't intend to compare Pritchard and Nash -- obviously Pritchard will never be as good a passer as Nash. I obviously understand he doesn't have projection as a world-class athlete.

All I'm saying we often talk about BBIQ or vision as if they were an essential quality, unchanging or even in-born, whereas lots of guards show growth as passers. Correct me I'm wrong, but I would think the point is not necessarily how old they are but how much time they've spent adjusting to NBA game speed.

Cellar-Door · Aug 9, 2021

Kliq said:
Yeah, I think that is pretty fair. I think when he first was drafted a lot of people assumed he would be a pure, classic PG, but he ended up being more of a score-first guy off the bench. My checklist, in order, for things I want PP to do well if he is playing 20+ mpg:

1. Shoot well from three

2. Defend at a high-level against like-sized guards

3. Throw good entry passes.

4. Get to the basket to drive-and-kick

More Pritchard minutes with our best players will probably tell us a lot. The Celtics bench was so bad offensively last season that it's hard to get a read on what Pritchard can do as a point guard playing with a lot of offensive talent and not with Grant/Semi/Nesmith/TT, etc.

Yeah, I should say, I don't mean to say PP is bad or not a useful player when I say he's not a PG. Lou Williams isn't a PG AND couldn't defend and he was still a useful player in his role for years. PP is going to be useful as long as he can shoot, and he's not terrible defensively (though I don't think he'll be good, switching is way more valuable than running around screens).
PP probably has some growth left in terms of reading plays, making better and quicker decisions, and that could make him a good bench guard.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

Fishy1 said:
I don't think I articulated myself very well. I'm trying to suggest he has projection in that particular part of his game, and I didn't intend to compare Pritchard and Nash -- obviously Pritchard will never be as good a passer as Nash. I obviously understand he doesn't have projection as a world-class athlete.

All I'm saying we often talk about BBIQ or vision as if they were an essential quality, unchanging or even in-born, whereas lots of guards show growth as passers. Correct me I'm wrong, but I would think the point is not necessarily how old they are but how much time they've spent adjusting to NBA game speed.

Id argue BBIQ and vision are unchanging but that passing can be improved. TL always had the vision and creativity. He showed flashes his first 2 seasons. In his 3rd, he became a better passer. The vision was always there though.

edit: I mean, Gerald Green improved his BBIQ, but I don't think he's the norm. Most players don't arrive so clueless.

Jimbodandy · Aug 9, 2021

Fishy1 said:
I don't think I articulated myself very well. I'm trying to suggest he has projection in that particular part of his game, and I didn't intend to compare Pritchard and Nash -- obviously Pritchard will never be as good a passer as Nash. I obviously understand he doesn't have projection as a world-class athlete.

All I'm saying we often talk about BBIQ or vision as if they were an essential quality, unchanging or even in-born, whereas lots of guards show growth as passers. Correct me I'm wrong, but I would think the point is not necessarily how old they are but how much time they've spent adjusting to NBA game speed.

Marcus is a good example of a guy whose improved handle and vision turned him from a mediocre passer into a half decent one after a couple of years of adjusting to NBA speed.

Jimbodandy · Aug 9, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Smart was an elite passer at OK State. I think the big thing for him wasn’t the vision, as he always had that, it was adapting the the NBA quickness and length to understand what he could and could not do at this level not being an elite quick twitch athlete.

Yeah that's fair. I think that it's not a question of developing vision or BBIQ for some guys. It's learning what they can get away with at this level and developing what they can get away with.

Smart got way better at setting up other guys. I think that PP has some growth opportunity there too.

P.s., that's not at all to say that some guys don't develop BBIQ at the NBA level. Some definitely do.

Eddie Jurak · Aug 9, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
I don’t see where the upside is due to his physical limitations.

He could perhaps improve his shot, which is already good, by a lot. Outside of that I don't see a whole lot of room for projection there. He's already a good enough shooter to have an NBA career, but as a bench player.

Fishy1 · Aug 9, 2021

HomeRunBaker said:
Nash was playing behind/splitting time with Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson early in his career. Pritchard would see zero minutes behind Kidd and KJ.

I don’t see where the upside is due to his physical limitations. He’s going to carve out a nice career as a second unit combo guard even if he has to bounce around the league to do so whoring himself off to the highest bidder. That’s the business and one heck of a career for a player selected where he was. Lou Will in his prime was an elite scorer/shot creator in this league......but also one of the higher IQ defenders I’ve seen too. That isn’t where he was asked to expend his energy though.

I keep getting the least generous version of my argument repeated back to me and am not sure why. Like I've said, I didn't intend to really compare Nash and Pritchard per se, and probably should not have at all, but merely meant to demonstrate that guards often make leaps as passers. That's all. I agree with the general sentiment around Prithcard -- difficulty penetrating, weak first year as a floor general -- but am suggesting that he has room to grow given his his other strengths.

EDIT: I did say "ton of upside," which is incredibly vague. That's on me.

Kliq · Aug 9, 2021

Pritchard shot 64% from the restricted area last season (14% of his FGA came from there), how does that compare to other similar-sized players?

Fred VanVleet: 53% - 17% of FGA

Kyrie Irving: 62% - 19% of FGA

Kyle Lowry: 68% - 14% of FGA

Trae Young: 57% - 16% of FGA

DeAaron Fox: 76% - 23% of FGA

Steph Curry: 66% - 14% of FGA

Donovan Mitchell: 60% - 15% of FGA

So Pritchard seems to score at a similar rate as other elite players at his position, although he has a much SSS than those guys. He doesn't shoot well from between 3-10 feet (only 37%) but when getting to the basket, he seems to be pretty good at finishing and he shoots that shot at a similar rate as other smaller guards.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Aug 9, 2021

Kliq said:
Pritchard shot 64% from the restricted area last season (14% of his FGA came from there), how does that compare to other similar-sized players?

[Snip]

So Pritchard seems to score at a similar rate as other elite players at his position, although he has a much SSS than those guys. He doesn't shoot well from between 3-10 feet (only 37%) but when getting to the basket, he seems to be pretty good at finishing and he shoots that shot at a similar rate as other smaller guards.

Without looking it up, I would guess that his restricted area numbers in the beginning of the year were much better than the end of the year as the league caught up to his, well, craftiness around the rim. Other teams figured out that if the defender doesn't leave his feet, PP has a problem finishing because of lack of elite athleticism. As I mentioned in the game thread, what he really needs is a floater so he can hit the in-between shots and doesn't have to go all the way to the rim.

Kliq said:
PP will always be a limited defender due to his size, but I don't see a reason why he couldn't be a good defender against like-sized players.

For the same reason he can't finish, PP is going to find it hard guarding first unit 1s. While he's a willing and smart defender, he just doesn't have the athleticism to defend smaller, quicker PGs.

I like PP and think he's a real asset given his shooting ability but I doubt he's ever going to be a 30 mpg starting player in the NBA.

tbrown_01923 · Aug 9, 2021

i commented last year that I thought he needed the floater after watching predraft video (after the draft). The rebuttal was that he had the mid lane pullup and that was enough to keep defenders off balance. I don't think we saw that pullup last year - but are their folks who feel that we will see that be effective for him? By my eye his trigger looks fast enough (from dribble to shot) but that is a tough shot regardless of how fast you launch it

TripleOT · Aug 9, 2021

PP plays a turnover free game, and sets up the go ahead three in the final seconds, but his passing is micro-analyzed. CD and HRB cannot let even a moment pass without letting everyone on this board know what they see as PP’s fatal flaws.

He’s a late first round draft pick who was one of the best three point shooting rookies in his class. He has a well known history of working like crazy to get better, exceeding expectations over and over again. PP yesterday was tasked with running the team, playing as error free as possible, and closing out the game successfully. Check 3x.

Pritchard‘s future might be as a second unit combo guard who bounces around the league. Or, he might jump on the opportunity to be the starting PG on this Celtics team that features two top wings, and need a PG to 1) bring the ball up and pass it to one of them, (or to TL/AL), who will initiate the offense, and 2) stretch the floor for them by spotting up deep behind the arc and hitting four of every ten threes.

I again go on record as believing PP will do exactly that this season if given the opportunity. He noticeably took deeper threes yesterday, and his shot looked great. His trigger looked a bit quicker too.

TripleOT · Aug 9, 2021

PP started out making like 90% of his layups his rookie season. He was freeing his shooting hand, and creating space. As the season wore on, he was finding resistance, for two reasons. First, the league had a look at what he could and couldn’t do. Second, he played a lot of minutes with bricklaying shooters, which allowed defenses to constrict the driving lanes.

He definitely needs a floater, and definitely needs floor stretching teammates if he’s going to get more than a few layups in set offense.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

TripleOT said:
PP plays a turnover free game, and sets up the go ahead three in the final seconds, but his passing is micro-analyzed. CD and HRB cannot let even a moment pass without letting everyone on this board know what they see as PP’s fatal flaws.

He’s a late first round draft pick who was one of the best three point shooting rookies in his class. He has a well known history of working like crazy to get better, exceeding expectations over and over again. PP yesterday was tasked with running the team, playing as error free as possible, and closing out the game successfully. Check 3x.

Pritchard‘s future might be as a second unit combo guard who bounces around the league. Or, he might jump on the opportunity to be the starting PG on this Celtics team that features two top wings, and need a PG to 1) bring the ball up and pass it to one of them, (or to TL/AL), who will initiate the offense, and 2) stretch the floor for them by spotting up deep behind the arc and hitting four of every ten threes.

I again go on record as believing PP will do exactly that this season if given the opportunity. He noticeably took deeper threes yesterday, and his shot looked great. His trigger looked a bit quicker too.

No offense, but you are a PP fanboy. You can't let a moment pass without praising him and telling us good you think he will be.

Aren't you the same poster who said they wouldn't be surprised if PP had a 43% career 3 point shooting percentage? It was one of you.

benhogan · Aug 9, 2021

Good grief, what's going on around here? It's Summer League lets have some fun.

Game#1 PP looked great shooting w/decent volume. Every player's role on this team is in support of the Jays.

Is a 40%+ 3pt shooter that can handle the ball around the Jays helpful, Yep. More of them for the rotation, please.

Do I wish he could play better defense, you bet. BUT that guy doesn't get drafted late in round 1. If he can pick up full or 3/4 on-ball defense for ~20mpg that will suffice (can't be any worse than Kemba's D)

Fishy1 · Aug 9, 2021

Of course there's a wide range of outcomes for any of these players, and quibbling over prognostications is bound to make all of us look stupid over a long enough timeline. I'm very willing to admit my own bias: that I really like PP's game and think he has a good chance of elevating his game while also recognizing he may never overcome his physical limitations.

I also think It's hard to separate the player's success from the environment he was in. When PP was playing with the first unit, he was asked to play shooting guard. When PP played with the second unit, he was often still asked the play shooting guard, but before Kemba came back, he briefly benefited from having TL as a roll man, and then later he had to deal with Grant, Semi, and Nesmith as running mates whenever he was given the keys to the car.

I happen to have high hopes that he'll end up fighting for the starting role, but I also hope that Brad brings in some sort of insurance. I don't like Schroder very much, but if he's cheap and allows Smart to run with the second unit, I'd be much happier.

A lot of Pritchard's success, at the end of the day, will be in how his game responds to an increase in volume of shooting. If he can take a shitload of threes and hit them at high volume, there's no way he won't play.

TripleOT · Aug 9, 2021

Cesar Crespo said:
No offense, but you are a PP fanboy. You can't let a moment pass without praising him and telling us good you think he will be.

Aren't you the same poster who said they wouldn't be surprised if PP had a 43% career 3 point shooting percentage? It was one of you.

I would be happy to never have to defend PP on this board ever again. As I wrote above, I’m just fed up with the constantly drumbeat of what he can’t do, and the speculation of what he will never be able to do.

<Fanboy alert> I will gloat when the doubters are proven wrong.

I don’t think I once wrote that PP would shoot 43% from three, but he did shoot 41.1% from three as a rookie, playing much of the time with non offensive threats on the second unit. is 43% that much of a stretch?

JakeRae · Aug 9, 2021

TripleOT said:
I would be happy to never have to defend PP on this board ever again. As I wrote above, I’m just fed up with the constantly drumbeat of what he can’t do, and the speculation of what he will never be able to do.

<Fanboy alert> I will gloat when the doubters are proven wrong.

I don’t think I once wrote that PP would shoot 43% from three, but he did shoot 41.1% from three as a rookie, playing much of the time with non offensive threats on the second unit. is 43% that much of a stretch?

As someone who commented on PP as a point guard, I didn’t mean it as a criticism but as a recognition of his role. He’s a shooter who defends the 1 and can bring the ball up the court, not really a guy you run at the point in the half court. He may develop that skill, but he’s probably better served on offense learning how to run off ball actions to get shots while the ball is in Brown or Tatum’s hands. I feel like he’s also someone who should be able to execute the dribble handoff pull-up three play effectively and we may see that run for him with Horford this year.

Pritchard is a real NBA player. It’s also good to see him coming into summer league with a shooter mentality since we are going to need someone on the second unit that isn’t afraid to seek out their own offense and can also do so competently.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

TripleOT said:
I would be happy to never have to defend PP on this board ever again. As I wrote above, I’m just fed up with the constantly drumbeat of what he can’t do, and the speculation of what he will never be able to do.

<Fanboy alert> I will gloat when the doubters are proven wrong.

I don’t think I once wrote that PP would shoot 43% from three, but he did shoot 41.1% from three as a rookie, playing much of the time with non offensive threats on the second unit. is 43% that much of a stretch?

Yes, it's the 2nd best all time.

TripleOT · Aug 9, 2021

JakeRae said:
As someone who commented on PP as a point guard, I didn’t mean it as a criticism but as a recognition of his role. He’s a shooter who defends the 1 and can bring the ball up the court, not really a guy you run at the point in the half court. He may develop that skill, but he’s probably better served on offense learning how to run off ball actions to get shots while the ball is in Brown or Tatum’s hands. I feel like he’s also someone who should be able to execute the dribble handoff pull-up three play effectively and we may see that run for him with Horford this year.

Pritchard is a real NBA player. It’s also good to see him coming into summer league with a shooter mentality since we are going to need someone on the second unit that isn’t afraid to seek out their own offense and can also do so competently.

PP made a conscious effort to self generate threes, as opposed to just catch and shoot, which they know he does well (93% of his threes were assisted his rookie year). Over half his makes yesterday were self generated.

Here’s a Fanboy link. Cellar Door might want to notice the pass at 26 seconds for the Edwards layup on a runout after a PP steal was three millimeters off.

View: https://youtu.be/MKE_ImvkYYQ

TripleOT · Aug 9, 2021

Cesar Crespo said:
Yes, it's the 2nd best all time.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

Ok, but does that change anything? Sure, he'll be one of the 10 best?

I also don't see any PP hate here so I don't get your gripe but ok. No one is arguing he sucks, you just seem to think he's an all star or a starter or something?

I've stated he's going to get 20+ minutes a night based on his shooting alone. He's a rotation player. Even HRB has said as much.

Cellar-Door · Aug 9, 2021

Only on here can you compare a bench player to a 3 time 6MOY award winner and have someone furious that you hate the guy

benhogan · Aug 9, 2021

the green goggles, fanboy, homer stuff is unnecessary

JakeRae · Aug 9, 2021

TripleOT said:
PP made a conscious effort to self generate threes, as opposed to just catch and shoot, which they know he does well (93% of his threes were assisted his rookie year). Over half his makes yesterday were self generated.

Here’s a Fanboy link. Cellar Door might want to notice the pass at 26 seconds for the Edwards layup on a runout after a PP steal was three millimeters off.

View: https://youtu.be/MKE_ImvkYYQ

Sure, but his “self-generated” threes were mostly just based on guys not respecting that he will shoot, and can make, shots from 5 feet behind the arc. He only had one shot in those highlights that came off his dribble creating space instead of how deep he was standing creating space.

Cesar Crespo · Aug 9, 2021

benhogan said:
the green goggles, fanboy, homer stuff is unnecessary

The hater stuff is just as bad.

2021 Celtics LVSL Game Thread

bet squelcher

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

bet squelcher

Member

Head Mason

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

79

Head Mason

79

Member

79

Member

Head Mason

Member

79

Member

bet squelcher

bet squelcher

Member

canderson-lite

Head Mason

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

79

bet squelcher

Granite Truther

Head Mason

Member

Member

79

Member

Member

Attachments

79

Member

Granite Truther

Member

79