The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

SMU_Sox

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I was going through his game logs and my notes and I think he had a better first 7 games overall vs last 8 with the exception of the Browns game. Even the Titans game I thought was a mixed bag despite the box score. You know what a common theme is? He’s late getting the ball out and he is consistently either not seeing underneath guys or not adjusting for how quickly NFL linebackers and safeties can get back into the play. The Atlanta interception, the dropped Titans picks, the Leonard/Indy pick, and the awful throw to Harry yesterday. All of them were athletic plays made by guys in coverage where if he both put more air under the ball AND got it out sooner he would have avoided the mistakes. The problem is he’s now made the same kind of mistake in multiple games strung together. I think he’s hit a wall and going against Jacksonville will likely show us nothing as they don’t have a functional defense. Here’s what I mean by a wall. His mechanics are getting worse, not better. This is common for a lot of athletes during a season in which they are trying to learn and process new ideas. Defenses are testing him with rotating coverages and blitzes and he is waiting for guys to look open before he throws it vs throwing with anticipation. This isn’t an extreme. Of course he is still throwing some passes well, on target, with anticipation, and good mechanics, but many more are not.

As for limiting the playbook… interesting idea to explore but I’m not sure what exactly they are not doing. Brady had a much better arm but most years with Brady they weren’t going deep. They still run the usual Patriot staples.

When you take a guy with Mac’s physical toolset in year 1 it’s really hard to win just by the mental side of things. Figuring out post snap changes and being able to process that, know what the new answer is to the test, and get it out on time doesn’t happen consistently if at all year 1. And Mac’s biggest mental weakness was post snap processing which was something which Jess and I talked about pre-draft.

He is overall playing like an average QB. 15th in Y/A and 19th for ANY/A. For a rookie those are successful numbers. Seeing that his mechanics are slipping and defenses are throwing a lot more at him and he isn’t adjusting to that tells me he has probably hit a wall and we need to be patient and wait for years 2 and 3 to see if that improves. I think it will. He will always have physical limitations but if he gets the ball out earlier and can play faster he will be fine. We just won’t see that until the future.
 

BroodsSexton

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I was going through his game logs and my notes and I think he had a better first 7 games overall vs last 8 with the exception of the Browns game. Even the Titans game I thought was a mixed bag despite the box score. You know what a common theme is? He’s late getting the ball out and he is consistently either not seeing underneath guys or not adjusting for how quickly NFL linebackers and safeties can get back into the play. The Atlanta interception, the dropped Titans picks, the Leonard/Indy pick, and the awful throw to Harry yesterday. All of them were athletic plays made by guys in coverage where if he both put more air under the ball AND got it out sooner he would have avoided the mistakes. The problem is he’s now made the same kind of mistake in multiple games strung together. I think he’s hit a wall and going against Jacksonville will likely show us nothing as they don’t have a functional defense. Here’s what I mean by a wall. His mechanics are getting worse, not better. This is common for a lot of athletes during a season in which they are trying to learn and process new ideas. Defenses are testing him with rotating coverages and blitzes and he is waiting for guys to look open before he throws it vs throwing with anticipation. This isn’t an extreme. Of course he is still throwing some passes well, on target, with anticipation, and good mechanics, but many more are not.

As for limiting the playbook… interesting idea to explore but I’m not sure what exactly they are not doing. Brady had a much better arm but most years with Brady they weren’t going deep. They still run the usual Patriot staples.

When you take a guy with Mac’s physical toolset in year 1 it’s really hard to win just by the mental side of things. Figuring out post snap changes and being able to process that, know what the new answer is to the test, and get it out on time doesn’t happen consistently if at all year 1. And Mac’s biggest mental weakness was post snap processing which was something which Jess and I talked about pre-draft.

He is overall playing like an average QB. 15th in Y/A and 19th for ANY/A. For a rookie those are successful numbers. Seeing that his mechanics are slipping and defenses are throwing a lot more at him and he isn’t adjusting to that tells me he has probably hit a wall and we need to be patient and wait for years 2 and 3 to see if that improves. I think it will. He will always have physical limitations but if he gets the ball out earlier and can play faster he will be fine. We just won’t see that until the future.
Out of curiosity, do NFL teams have some kind of simulator that allows for practicing getting these throws out early under pressure? I picture something like a TopGolf simulator. If they don't have that, I would think it would be useful.
 

SMU_Sox

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Out of curiosity, do NFL teams have some kind of simulator that allows for practicing getting these throws out early under pressure? I picture something like a TopGolf simulator. If they don't have that, I would think it would be useful.
Typically guys work on stuff with personal coaches in the off-season. Though with Mac during some of the drills they might give him a certain amount of time to throw it before blowing a whistle. I know Parcells used to do that. I think it’s more speed up your processing and throw vs simulating pressure but they could do that, sure. I don’t much about the intricacies of practice minus that Parcells whistle anecdote.
I do know that he will work on film study and footwork and mechanics this off-season. He’s not going to get away, and he hasn’t gotten away, with upper bodying his throws. So pretty sure his coach will get him to repeat a better delivery thousands of times. He will probably work on his physical conditioning and flexibility too. Lombardi mentioned it after they drafted him so I would think the club would have talked to him about it. If he’s studying opponents defenses on tape and his own stuff he would have to be blind to see his arm is one of the weakest out there and has room for improvement. Plus it’s common sense and no one in the organization or Mac is devoid of that.
Mac is also playing even more games than ever before. So he has that going against him too. Year 1 is really hard for QB. Feel like you could end every post here with that and you’d be right. It’s also nice to always keep that in perspective.

Last thing with drills - during the season you won’t see many drills designed to get a guy better at one thing. Training camp and OTAs maybe. It’s hard to set aside practice time during the regular season for skill improvement.
 

Rico Guapo

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Here's Mark Schofield's breakdown of Mac's struggles against Buffalo. Well worth the time to watch this.

View: https://youtu.be/mAdtwyzyWG8
A lot of the criticisms are valid, but...

On the second play, 1st and 20, you can see the corners hips are flat to Jones at 4:21 so it makes sense he didn't try to throw over him to hit Hunter Henry for more yards.

The analysis on the 3rd and 3 play from their own end is garbage, Meyers is getting mugged the whole route and no one else is open.
 

Gash Prex

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I saw a lot of criticism in the gamethread that the tipped INT was a "terrible" decision - but looking at that play it was a great play by the LB. In fact, the pats only had 2 routes and it was the right read and throw - just slightly late. The LB pulled strong into the line and then recovered quickly. I time stamped the videos.


As SMU indicated above, Jones' mechanics have been getting worse over the season and its contributed to his struggles over the past few weeks. I did notice in the video on the miss to Henry Schofield points to Mac's locked front leg (which I think he wears a brace). I do wonder about the health of that leg after some of the shots he has taken.

View: https://youtu.be/mAdtwyzyWG8?t=657
 

BaseballJones

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Stopping that video when Mac is at his deepest drop (on the tipped INT) makes it look like he actually pauses there. He really doesn't. He drops back, pivots, and throws. If it's a hair late it's because he's not quick enough on his drop. He doesn't pause at all. It's all one fluid motion. Here's the play in real time:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9SmAU8cPto


He has to complete the play action and as soon as he pivots, he lets it fly.
 

sezwho

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We are limiting the playbook because the primary deep threat is Nkeal Harry. This team badly needs an outside receiver. Aghlor is mediocre to bad in this department as well.
And he’s not likely to see a good receiver under BB, unless its a slot guy. When BB stumbles into one that’s good (Bourne) he never sees the field unless it’s a decoy. Weird.

BB loves skinny rock handed TEs masquerading as WRs.

/rant.
 

Gash Prex

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Kendrick Bourne already has a career high in yards (700) and will absolutely have a career high in catches (47 currently, 49 last year). He is also averaging 15 yards a reception. He is absolutely not a decoy.
 

simplyeric

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And he’s not likely to see a good receiver under BB, unless its a slot guy. When BB stumbles into one that’s good (Bourne) he never sees the field unless it’s a decoy. Weird.

BB loves skinny rock handed TEs masquerading as WRs.

/rant.
Yeah, and a rolling Ocho Cinco gathers no Moss, while Gronk and Hernandez were skinny golems.

85 didn’t pan out and Hernandez had his other issues. Moss and Gronk certainly worked.

BB wants a great deep threat and big catching TE’s, he’s just not willing to break the bank for one.
 

BaseballJones

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Yeah, and a rolling Ocho Cinco gathers no Moss, while Gronk and Hernandez were skinny golems.

85 didn’t pan out and Hernandez had his other issues. Moss and Gronk certainly worked.

BB wants a great deep threat and big catching TE’s, he’s just not willing to break the bank for one.
He was hoping Asiasi was one of those but he hasn't exactly panned out yet.
 

sezwho

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Yeah, and a rolling Ocho Cinco gathers no Moss, while Gronk and Hernandez were skinny golems.

85 didn’t pan out and Hernandez had his other issues. Moss and Gronk certainly worked.

BB wants a great deep threat and big catching TE’s, he’s just not willing to break the bank for one.
I should have been more clear, I think BB does love TEs andwill spend both picks and $ on them (year before last year the exception). Heck, he was DC of the Giants for Bavaros entire career and that had to have an impact. I’m saying that, when choosing WRs to give reps to, he favors blocking over hands.

Yes, given the HoF upside of Moss on a steal deal, he will happily chuck it down the field. He’s still the greatest coach ever.

Kendrick Bourne already has a career high in yards (700) and will absolutely have a career high in catches (47 currently, 49 last year). He is also averaging 15 yards a reception. He is absolutely not a decoy.
You’re right, decoy isn’t the right word especially because he’s so effective when targeted. My frustration stems primarily from watching so many reps (110!) go to Meyers while Bourne sits at 61. Those extra 49 targets produced just 23 more yards.
 
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simplyeric

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He has a good feel in the pocket, so he can work on holding onto the ball a little longer, making subtle moves in the pocket and making sure his feet are underneath him when he throws
Interesting. This seems counter to what a several people have mentioned around here: that some of his throws are a little late.
I know those are two different things: taking the time to have his mechanics correct, v. not giving too much time so that the defense can coalesce.

I suppose there might be a little sine wave:

If he can get the ball out fast, can hit a short route before the D can deal with it.

if he takes a little too long, the pocket might affect his mechanics and the D can read him and jump the routes or what have you.

if he can take even more time, then he can (edit) reset his mechanics, and his receivers might be able to run effective longer patterns.
 
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tims4wins

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Interesting. This seems counter to what a several people have mentioned around here: that some of his throws are a little late.
I know those are two different things: taking the time to have his mechanics correct, v. not giving too much time so that the defense can coalesce.

I suppose there might be a little sine wave:

If he can get the ball out fast, can hit a short route before the D can deal with it.

if he takes a little too long, the pocket might affect his mechanics and the D can read him and jump the routes or what have you.

if he can take even more time, then he can rest his mechanics, and his receivers might be able to run effective longer patterns.
I think Cassel is also referring to continue to work on driving the ball downfield vs. just taking early checkdowns, but I may be incorrect
 

Eddie Jurak

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Well, the good thing about the position Mac and the Pats are in now is that there are a couple of meaningful tests/opportunities coming up:

1. The end of the season gives Mac a chance to respond to adversity. Whatever the cause of his struggles - physical limitations, opponent adjustments, rookie wall, etc, he has a chance to show that he can turn things around and contribute. If he and the team do well enough, they get to extend this into the playoffs.

2. This will be a critical offseason for Mac. There's a vast amount of things he needs to work on and he'll have time to do it.

The end of this year and the beginning of next will add a lot to Mac's file, so to speak.
 

Cellar-Door

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Interesting. This seems counter to what a several people have mentioned around here: that some of his throws are a little late.
I know those are two different things: taking the time to have his mechanics correct, v. not giving too much time so that the defense can coalesce.
I think Cassel is saying that he can take time to make good throws under pressure vs. bailing out and throwing some of those off-base throws we saw last week.

When people talk about him being late on throws, that's about a combination of recognition and driving the ball (which is easier if you are throwing off a better base).

Two very different things there.
 

simplyeric

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I think Cassel is also referring to continue to work on driving the ball downfield vs. just taking early checkdowns, but I may be incorrect
I interpreted it more about his mechanics and less about his decision-making. It’s obviously all intertwined. I don’t know who or exactly where, but a few people have broken down some of McCorkle’s interceptions, tips, I completions, and posited that he’s a little late on some of his throws. So it was interesting to read Cassel talking about taking more time. But it’s a different kind of time, or rather, different particular time frames. And of course, if he’s a heartbeat late on a throw it would be better for him to have solid mechanics on that slightly-late throw.


I think Cassel is saying that he can take time to make good throws under pressure vs. bailing out and throwing some of those off-base throws we saw last week.

When people talk about him being late on throws, that's about a combination of recognition and driving the ball (which is easier if you are throwing off a better base).

Two very different things there.
Yeah we’re on the same page i think.
 

SMU_Sox

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Doug Farrar and Mac Jones enthusiast Matt Waldman liked and/or retweeted this thread. It’s supposedly an anonymous scout. Even if he isn’t what he is saying is worth reading. Plus I trust Waldman and Farrar.

View: https://twitter.com/TheHonestNFL/status/1476686992687702016?t=S7hBzC1bnsQ_67fbHtpHUg&s=09

View: https://twitter.com/thehonestnfl/status/1476688232540737536?s=21
He needs the extra height because he can’t line drive it with his arm. The more time he needs the more time a defender has to react but also the earlier he has to throw and anticipate where the receiver will be.
You can see the inside leverage show up a lot recently. Against the Bills look at his first passing play, a sack: Bills had two high, they run a double dig concept (which btw they love to run and used to with Brady a ton) but both corners have inside leverage, wait for the receiver to get into their break and then run the dig along side them. If you don’t attack the outside enough defenses will adjust and flood the middle of the field and play more inside leverage.

None of the arm concerns are new. Remember that throw against the Fins week 1 where he had (I think) Meyers open on (again I think) an intermediate crossing route and his throw is a touch late and hangs up in the air so much that JMC recovered and broke it up? That’s where arm strength and velocity come into the equation.

The good news is that he has showed he can play in the NFL. Next we just wait for improvements. Not to be the turd in the punch bowl but you never know how much a guy improves. Baker Mayfield hasn’t improved since his rookie year. I’d bet on Mac though. Work ethic at QB goes a long way.
 

simplyeric

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Doug Farrar and Mac Jones enthusiast Matt Waldman liked and/or retweeted this thread. It’s supposedly an anonymous scout. Even if he isn’t what he is saying is worth reading. Plus I trust Waldman and Farrar.

View: https://twitter.com/TheHonestNFL/status/1476686992687702016?t=S7hBzC1bnsQ_67fbHtpHUg&s=09

View: https://twitter.com/thehonestnfl/status/1476688232540737536?s=21
He needs the extra height because he can’t line drive it with his arm. The more time he needs the more time a defender has to react but also the earlier he has to throw and anticipate where the receiver will be.
You can see the inside leverage show up a lot recently. Against the Bills look at his first passing play, a sack: Bills had two high, they run a double dig concept (which btw they love to run and used to with Brady a ton) but both corners have inside leverage, wait for the receiver to get into their break and then run the dig along side them. If you don’t attack the outside enough defenses will adjust and flood the middle of the field and play more inside leverage.

None of the arm concerns are new. Remember that throw against the Fins week 1 where he had (I think) Meyers open on (again I think) an intermediate crossing route and his throw is a touch late and hangs up in the air so much that JMC recovered and broke it up? That’s where arm strength and velocity come into the equation.

The good news is that he has showed he can play in the NFL. Next we just wait for improvements. Not to be the turd in the punch bowl but you never know how much a guy improves. Baker Mayfield hasn’t improved since his rookie year. I’d bet on Mac though. Work ethic at QB goes a long way.
Something like this makes me think that part of McCorkle’s ‘rookie wall’ is actually scouting. Opposing teams have had more time to zoom in on his weaknesses and tendencies, and are tracking away (or giving him) what works for them on D.
sure, they had tape and scouting prior to this, from college. But, the NFL is different, and they have to take time to see what his coaches will do, how his O-line is working, and also the tendencies of his receivers.
Obviously there’s no ‘one thing’ that’s holding him back right now. It’s a little bit of mechanics/strength, a little bit of pocket awareness, a little bit of reads and speed of the game and all of it.
we’ll see…
 

BaseballJones

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OROY competition between Chase, Waddle, and Mac.

Chase: 79 rec, 1,429 yds, 18.1 ypc, 13 td
Waddle: 99 rec, 988 yds, 10.0 ypc, 5 td
Mac: 332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 yds, 7.2 y/a, 21 td, 12 int, 92.5 rating

QBs usually win the hardware but not in this case, I don't think. Mac has been the most important rookie, but I think Chase wins the award most likely, unless he puts up a stinker next week and Mac goes bonkers. Even then I think Chase likely wins it. Though honestly...the starting QB putting up good numbers on an 11-win team (when the previous year they were a 7-win team that missed the playoffs) is a hard OROY candidate to ignore.
 

Jungleland

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Alas, it was a good debate at the end of November, but there is no universe where Chase shouldn’t win. Mac had his worst game of the year with the division on the line and Chase locked up the north for Cincinnati with his own monster game yesterday. And even more simply, gotta go with the guy who’s already top 5 at his position.
 

MillarTime

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OROY competition between Chase, Waddle, and Mac.

Chase: 79 rec, 1,429 yds, 18.1 ypc, 13 td
Waddle: 99 rec, 988 yds, 10.0 ypc, 5 td
Mac: 332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 yds, 7.2 y/a, 21 td, 12 int, 92.5 rating

QBs usually win the hardware but not in this case, I don't think. Mac has been the most important rookie, but I think Chase wins the award most likely, unless he puts up a stinker next week and Mac goes bonkers. Even then I think Chase likely wins it. Though honestly...the starting QB putting up good numbers on an 11-win team (when the previous year they were a 7-win team that missed the playoffs) is a hard OROY candidate to ignore.
I agree - I would vote for Chase, especially after his performance yesterday. Mac should be a very close 2nd
 

Gash Prex

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I'm not sure where this "outside the numbers" stuff came from (anon scouts and then endlessly repeated) but last time I saw the stats, Mac Jones had some of the best numbers "outside the numbers" of any QB in the NFL. Once again some subjective "he can't drive it" or whatever

This was some version of the chart I saw a few weeks ago - I can't find the exact stat one at the moment.



Mac's best passer ratings come "outside the numbers" - NextGen stats hasn't updated it chart for a while
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm not sure where this "outside the numbers" stuff came from (anon scouts and then endlessly repeated) but last time I saw the stats, Mac Jones had some of the best numbers "outside the numbers" of any QB in the NFL. Once again some subjective "he can't drive it" or whatever

This was some version of the chart I saw a few weeks ago - I can't find the exact stat one at the moment.


Mac's best passer ratings come "outside the numbers" - NextGen stats hasn't updated it chart for a while
That chart doesn't really tell you much in terms of what the scouts/coaches are discussing. The question is whether he can make certain throws and beat certain coverages that coaches have run against him recently (coinciding with his production tail-off).
 

tims4wins

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Mac 2021 vs Brady 2001
332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 (7.2 Y/A / 6.18 ANY/A), 21 TD (4.3%), 12 INT (2.4%), 92.5 rating
264-413 (63.9%), 2,843 (6.9 Y/A / 5.39 ANY/A), 18 TD (4.4%), 12 INT (2.9%), 86.5 rating

Way different passing league, but a very nice season (with one to play).
 

Jimbodandy

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Way different passing league is putting it mildly. But Mac has definitely exceeded most people's expectations, as Brady did then. There's a ton to build on.
 

Cellar-Door

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Mac 2021 vs Brady 2001
332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 (7.2 Y/A / 6.18 ANY/A), 21 TD (4.3%), 12 INT (2.4%), 92.5 rating
264-413 (63.9%), 2,843 (6.9 Y/A / 5.39 ANY/A), 18 TD (4.4%), 12 INT (2.9%), 86.5 rating

Way different passing league, but a very nice season (with one to play).
If you want to look at league adjusted:
Mac- ANY/A+ 99, TD%+ 97, INT%+ 96, Rate+ 100
Brady- ANY/A+ 102, TD%+ 106, INT%+ 105, Rate+ 111
 

RG33

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Mac 2021 vs Brady 2001
332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 (7.2 Y/A / 6.18 ANY/A), 21 TD (4.3%), 12 INT (2.4%), 92.5 rating
264-413 (63.9%), 2,843 (6.9 Y/A / 5.39 ANY/A), 18 TD (4.4%), 12 INT (2.9%), 86.5 rating

Way different passing league, but a very nice season (with one to play).
With the large caveat once again that 2001 was not TB12’s rookie year and he had two full training camps and a postseason to work, learn, adjust, etc.

Not saying you don’t know this, but just pointing out that it does make Mac’s year more impressive.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Way different passing league is putting it mildly. But Mac has definitely exceeded most people's expectations, as Brady did then. There's a ton to build on.
For perspective on how different, Mac is 16th in rating at 91.2. In 2001, Brady was 6th at 86.5. So Mac is nominally better, but compared to competion he is worse - basically middle of the pack where Brady was near the top of the league.

Mac does better by QBR - 9th in the league. They didn't have QBR in 2001 so can't compared to Brady.

Brady's worst year in recent memory was 2019: tied for 18th in rating (88.0), tied for 16th in QBR (55.7).
 

tims4wins

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With the large caveat once again that 2001 was not TB12’s rookie year and he had two full training camps and a postseason to work, learn, adjust, etc.

Not saying you don’t know this, but just pointing out that it does make Mac’s year more impressive.
Right. Less pedigree, but a year in the system to work on his body, playbook, etc.
 

Jimbodandy

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With the large caveat once again that 2001 was not TB12’s rookie year and he had two full training camps and a postseason to work, learn, adjust, etc.

Not saying you don’t know this, but just pointing out that it does make Mac’s year more impressive.
Yes this is huge. Mac doing this as a true freshman says a lot about him. It also though says a lot about the shape the the organization is now compared to then--mature coaching staff and offensive/defensive systems, slightly better skill positions on offense, better OL than Brady had.

Lots of variables, but agreed that the season that Mac is having as a rookie is pretty damn impressive.
 

Cellar-Door

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For perspective on how different, Mac is 16th in rating at 91.2. In 2001, Brady was 6th at 86.5. So Mac is nominally better, but compared to competion he is worse - basically middle of the pack where Brady was near the top of the league.

Mac does better by QBR - 9th in the league. They didn't have QBR in 2001 so can't compared to Brady.

Brady's worst year in recent memory was 2019: tied for 18th in rating (88.0), tied for 16th in QBR (55.7).
Yeah, basically Mac is around average as a QB, Brady was knocking on the door of top 10 right out the gate in his first year.
 

Niastri

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For perspective on how different, Mac is 16th in rating at 91.2. In 2001, Brady was 6th at 86.5. So Mac is nominally better, but compared to competion he is worse - basically middle of the pack where Brady was near the top of the league.

Mac does better by QBR - 9th in the league. They didn't have QBR in 2001 so can't compared to Brady.

Brady's worst year in recent memory was 2019: tied for 18th in rating (88.0), tied for 16th in QBR (55.7).
QBR can't be calculated backwards? They didn't have OPS in 1892, but I can look up the numbers because somebody had the raw data... What goes into QBR that it can't be backdated?
 

Cellar-Door

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QBR can't be calculated backwards? They didn't have OPS in 1892, but I can look up the numbers because somebody had the raw data... What goes into QBR that it can't be backdated?
I'm sure ESPN could, but it's not based on public information, and I would guess they don't have some of the data for older games and would have to have someone reconstruct it from video.
 

lexrageorge

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QBR can't be calculated backwards? They didn't have OPS in 1892, but I can look up the numbers because somebody had the raw data... What goes into QBR that it can't be backdated?
It’s a black box metric with a proprietary formula that has apparently changed over time. Makes it borderline useless.
 

Cellar-Door

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It’s a black box metric with a proprietary formula that has apparently changed over time. Makes it borderline useless.
to be fair when your metric says a mediocre Charlie Batch performance is the pinnacle of QB play, yeah you gotta make some tweaks.
 

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14,479
Yes this is huge. Mac doing this as a true freshman says a lot about him. It also though says a lot about the shape the the organization is now compared to then--mature coaching staff and offensive/defensive systems, slightly better skill positions on offense, better OL than Brady had.

Lots of variables, but agreed that the season that Mac is having as a rookie is pretty damn impressive.
Also should probably have a tiny asterisk that the offseason was still kind of a shit show with Covid, wasn't it? Has to make it extra hard on the rookies that dont have the experience under their belt in the NFL.

Doesn't change the dynamics for Chase vs Mac for ROY, but still makes what they're both doing pretty impressive.
 

SumnerH

Malt Liquor Picker
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
32,029
Alexandria, VA
to be fair when your metric says a mediocre Charlie Batch performance is the pinnacle of QB play, yeah you gotta make some tweaks.
To be fair, Batch was 12/17 for 186 yards with 2 picks in that game. If that's not at least in the discussion for greatest QB performance of all time, then what is?
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,199
Mac 2021 vs Brady 2001
332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 (7.2 Y/A / 6.18 ANY/A), 21 TD (4.3%), 12 INT (2.4%), 92.5 rating
264-413 (63.9%), 2,843 (6.9 Y/A / 5.39 ANY/A), 18 TD (4.4%), 12 INT (2.9%), 86.5 rating

Way different passing league, but a very nice season (with one to play).
Let's just annoy everyone:

Mac 2021 vs. Brady 2019

332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 (7.2 Y/A / 6.18 ANY/A), 21 TD (4.3%), 12 INT (2.4%), 92.5 rating
373-613 (60.8%), 4,057 (6.6 Y/A / XXXXX), 24 TD (3.9%), 8 INT (1.3%), 88.0 rating
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,550
Hingham, MA
Let's just annoy everyone:

Mac 2021 vs. Brady 2019

332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 (7.2 Y/A / 6.18 ANY/A), 21 TD (4.3%), 12 INT (2.4%), 92.5 rating
373-613 (60.8%), 4,057 (6.6 Y/A / XXXXX), 24 TD (3.9%), 8 INT (1.3%), 88.0 rating
And 438 points in 2021 vs. 420 in 2019 (and pretty sure they scored more defensive points in 2019)

Edit: 7 defensive / ST TDs in 2019 (so -42 points / 378) vs. 3 in 2021 (so -18 points / 420). +42 over 16 games from the offense.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,772
Let's just annoy everyone:

Mac 2021 vs. Brady 2019

332-491 (67.6%), 3,540 (7.2 Y/A / 6.18 ANY/A), 21 TD (4.3%), 12 INT (2.4%), 92.5 rating
373-613 (60.8%), 4,057 (6.6 Y/A / XXXXX), 24 TD (3.9%), 8 INT (1.3%), 88.0 rating
An interesting question with that would be: Which QB has/had better offensive personnel with which to work? The 2019 OL was a MONSTER. They had Gronk and Edelman, though neither was at their peak. The 2021 team has better RBs and maybe more of a diverse WR corps?
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,550
Hingham, MA

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,935
An interesting question with that would be: Which QB has/had better offensive personnel with which to work? The 2019 OL was a MONSTER. They had Gronk and Edelman, though neither was at their peak. The 2021 team has better RBs and maybe more of a diverse WR corps?
Ben Watson was the TE for that team, and Dorsett was the #2 WR. I'm also not sure I'd say the line was monster, solid but probably worse than this year's, yes they had Thuney, but they also started Newhouse half the year. Also Brady was banged up. Even then, it's the worst year of his career by a wide margin, and the comparison to Mac is generally pointless.

Edit- I mean I get the reason, which is people want to compare Mac to Brady to feel good about Mac being a Brady replacement, but of course the issue is that Brady was better in every single season he played with the exception of maybe his injury hampered and surrounding talent deficient age 42 season, so that's the one that gets picked.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,024
Mansfield MA
An interesting question with that would be: Which QB has/had better offensive personnel with which to work? The 2019 OL was a MONSTER. They had Gronk and Edelman, though neither was at their peak. The 2021 team has better RBs and maybe more of a diverse WR corps?
Gronk had retired. And Andrews missed the whole season, along with Wynn missing half.

2019 was really a tale of two halves. In the first half, the OL was beat up (Wynn got hurt in Week 2) and the FBs got hurt (both Develin and Jakob Johnson) and they couldn't run the ball at all. But they had some decent receivers in Edelman, Josh Gordon, Brown for a week, and Dorsett was OK as the third guy with Meyers chipping in, and the O pretty good, not dissimilar from this year and probably even better.

In the second half, Wynn's return and Elandon Roberts as FB stabilized the run game - probably stapling Ryan Izzo to the bench helped too. But the pass game fell apart. Gordon was placed on IR and then waived, to be replaced by a dreadful N'Keal Harry. Meyers, who had been OK, lost playing time in favor of a washed-up Mo Sanu. Sanu, Edelman, and Brady all got hurt and played injured.

The 2019 team might have actually had better RB with Michel, White, Burkhead, Bolden, and Harris as the 5th guy, but the WR were up and down. For the first six weeks maybe, the 2019 team probably had better receivers (and a better offense). But the unit they rolled out late was very, very bad. And the TEs were just a mess from start to finish - has-been Watson and never-was Izzo and LaCosse - Henry and Smith, even with Smith disappointing, are far superior.