I can’t agree with this view anymore. Seen this show too many times and more and more it just seems like this is what they are—less than the sum of their parts, at least as long as CP is out of form and probably as long as Gregg is managing.
USMNT: Hold My Beer
- Thread starter Titans Bastard
- Start date
This team under Berhalter has generally kept it tight defensively, but the chance-creation is a constant struggle.
Unless Jamaica can do us a favor now, the U.S. is actually in some serious danger. Must get 6 points in the next two games. No margin. What else is new I guess?
Even with 14 games qualification still comes down to the slimmest of margins in CONCACAF. Not getting all three points against Canada in the home game is the difference now.
Edit — sorry not the next two games but Honduras and Panama.
Even with 14 games qualification still comes down to the slimmest of margins in CONCACAF. Not getting all three points against Canada in the home game is the difference now.
Edit — sorry not the next two games but Honduras and Panama.
If Panama wins tonight, a USMNT win vs. Honduras and a Panama loss @ Mexico next week opens the gap to four points again. And then if we beat Panama at home in the next window, that's the ballgame.
For the same reason I think, which is slow and sterile possession. Makes it hard for most CONCACAF teams to score against us (even Canada today needed a screw-up and then a man advantage), but it lets teams get defensively set up against us and we don’t have the inventiveness to solve it. It’s why so many of our attacks end in hopeful crosses or blocked shots.
I thought the US played well for two thirds of the pitch but we’re pretty useless in the final third. Canada switched formation in the second half ( 3-5-2 I think) which ended the US dominance in midfield. The best US chance (the bicycle kick) was offside.
Still, probably inconsequential as you lot are qualifying anyways. For Canada this was more of a statement game. Missing two of our best players and we were still the better team.
Panama dropping any points tonight is a bigger deal for our qualifying chances than us taking the L against Canada, fwiw.
To my eye it looked like Canada high-pressed a bit more from 45' to 75' or so, slowing us down as we tried to build out of the back and we never really adjusted (get the ball out quickly and attack directly while there's a numerical advantage).
Why not? The passing at all levels was terrible from both a just a placement perspective as well as an aggressiveness/imagination perspective. Part of that might be the turf field and rock hard ball, but still was painful to watch. If I’m CAN, or anyone else from here out, I press with near reckless abandon until this team can prove they will make pressing teams pay for creating that space.
I think we get Gregg (fingers crossed) through Qatar and honestly he deserves it, but unless he fixes some things and we outperform there I don’t want him for a second cycle.
I think he’s done a great job building the team culture and doing important dual national recruiting and we’ll always need to give him props for that, but by the time these players are in the primes of their careers and on home soil for a WC, I would want a manager better at the nuts and bolts of picking the right tactics for a player pool and game planning.
This is on point for me. Gregg has his strengths and weaknesses, and to me he should continue as manager through Qatar (no matter how much I complain). The camaraderie on the squad is something he has built and will likely be maintained through even 2026 to his credit. But his tactics are off and he has failed to build an identity as a team on the field. “Berhalter Ball” with this team should me more than finding a way to win 1-0.
Names will be there for the post WC coaching position. Who knows where Marsch will be? He has his system which may or may not work for the team at that time. Other names for me are Matarazzo (the forgotten American) and Hugo Perez (who is building something for El Salvador). Dare we dream of Pep, whose contract is up and has expressed an interest in being an international manager? Whoever ends up with the gig will have a solid foundation. I do hope USSF interviews multiple quality candidates who are not related to anyone at the organization when the time comes.
A chalk result on Wednesday (US win hosting Honduras and Panama loss at Azteca) means the only game that really has to matter in the final three in March is US hosting Panama.
After Wednesday, US/Panama flip opponents for the first match of the next round, with flipped results quite possible.
Most likely scenario is entering that one with a 1 point advantage where a win seals it. If things go balls up somewhere in the next three game stretch we will be staring down needing a win at CR while Panama hosts a Canadian team that will be safely in already.
If we finish 4th we have to win a one game playoff against an Oceania team in June…in the average 106 degree heat of Qatar having already blown several opportunities.
That said, it’s not impossible we get a point in Azteca in which case we’d only need one against Panama to seal it.
In a truly balls up timeline. Costa Rica grabbing a point off Mexico could loom large. They have every chance to pick up 6 more points (Jamaica / El Salvador). If US drops points to Panama and Mexico that Costa Rica match could be for the Oceania playoff.
I don't think it's at all likely but the way it could play out with US just getting 4 (win Hon, draw Panama, L Mexico) and CRC picking up 6 or unlikely 7 (still something to play for Canada at home) somehow means they could be playing for their complete lives last game day.
Just beat Honduras or it's really squeaky bum time.
I don't think it's at all likely but the way it could play out with US just getting 4 (win Hon, draw Panama, L Mexico) and CRC picking up 6 or unlikely 7 (still something to play for Canada at home) somehow means they could be playing for their complete lives last game day.
Just beat Honduras or it's really squeaky bum time.
I would support replacing Berhalter after the WC even if the tactics were better. The USMNT has given a second contract to three guys in the modern era (Arena, Bradley, and Klinsmann), and it's gone poorly every time. I think that at the NT level it's good to keep things fresh. In a manager's second cycle, there's a tendency for wonky personnel choices favoring guys the manager is familiar with, and there's a tendency for players to start to tune out a manager's general messaging. Berhalter brings good vibes to the program, but as this cohort of players reach mid-career maturity in the 2026 cycle, one can foresee clashes over Berhalter's tactical stubbornness.
In the last ten minutes they lost all composure and just went into desperation mode. The effort and intensity was great but it was completely incoherent. The second Canadian goal, you could see it coming a mile away, we were so scattered
The idea of this being more of a problem than it is with cycle one Berhalter is bone-chilling.
For sure, the USMNT was playing down a man (due to Richards' injury with no subs left) and chasing the game, and it was desperate chaos from there. The overarching theme of Berhalter's reign has been very solid defensive numbers, though. We are conceding fewer goals than we did under previous managers. But we're also scoring fewer.
Eh. When you take a step back from the narrative around this and dig into it a bit more, I think there isn't nearly as much to Berhalter's "favorites" as some would lead you to believe.
The usual suspects are guys like Lletget (who has been unused in the last five WCQ) and Arriola and Roldan (who have played very few minutes during the WCQ campaign). Since Roldan has been used primarily as a defensive wing sub, he's not even taking minutes away from the 8s that people would like to see. I guess he and Arriola are taking minutes away from Konrad, which gets a "whatever" from me.
Lletget was decent-to-good for his first ~20 caps, and then fell off this summer. Berhalter trusted him enough to give him a decently long leash to prove that it was just a blip. It's been more than a blip, so Lletget hasn't appeared in the last five WCQ and didn't dress for either of the games this window so far. People who don't want to acknowledge how useful Lletget once was are mad that Berhalter didn't drop him immediately, but in context I don't think giving him extra chances is that much of a sin. You can certainly argue that Berhalter should have moved on sooner, but I don't see this as an insane "favorites" issue.
To distract me from the US for a moment, what is going on with Mexico?
They end with Honduras and El Salvador so they should be fine, but just as easily as things might go to shit for the US, the same could be said for Mexico. It is not unconeviable to see them in 4th place at least 2 points back with 2 games to go.
They end with Honduras and El Salvador so they should be fine, but just as easily as things might go to shit for the US, the same could be said for Mexico. It is not unconeviable to see them in 4th place at least 2 points back with 2 games to go.
This is a good actual take, I will cop to not being able to resist the internetty cheap shot in post-loss frustration. People are mostly feeling the roster favorite frustration I think because in this cycle in particular, the pool is evolving so quickly that it makes those changes feel slower than they might actually be.
These Canada games worry me though. “Talented team with a conservative gameplan” seems like an archetype we could see plenty of during the World Cup and I don’t know that Berhalter has any gameplan for that at all. In terms of what they portend for the World Cup, these games scare me about as much as our recent Mexico games get me pumped for the World Cup.
I agree to a point. Down the road, when we think back on it, Gregg will have moved on from players that he has relied upon in the past and introduced many new players that will be part of the backbone of this team for a long, long time. A lot of us, myself included, unfairly want this process to go in fast forward. It's like a long car ride- we just want to be there now.
My issue has always been with the selection of several of these players to both the Nations League roster and the Gold Cup roster. For me, we didn't need to see Lletget, Acosta and several others as much, especially in the Gold Cup. Hell, I recall wanting to see Kevin Paredes over Vines for that tournament not because I thought Paredes was better but because I thought he would at some point, possibly before Qatar, surpass Vines. Admittedly I have a massive soccer crush on Paredes. That was the last good chance to integrate players into "Gregg's System" before qualifying started. He clearly puts an emphasis on familiarity with the system so I would have preferred to give more players shots to prove themselves instead of the usual suspects. I know Gregg wanted to win the tournament, and there is something to be said for that. And actually pulling it off was great! But did Acosta really need to play 21 games or whatever last year?
Once qualifying started, I have had no problem with the inclusion of Berhalter's "favorites". He should be including the players he trusts to get the job done at that point in time. His job is on the line, and he should be picking whoever he considers the "best" mix players to get the US qualified. My general criticism of the selections was not bringing even more players to get them or keep them integrated in the squad. For example, no reason not to bring someone like Konrad even if you are sure he won't play. These kids have shown an ability to develop quickly, especially in Europe when given minutes. Busio is a great example. Konrad might not be ready to contribute today, but by next window he could very well be in the mix. We've seen players go from squad rotation players in France to major pieces before, like Weah. So I ask, why not just bring him during a FIFA window? There's no restriction on roster size. Then there is Lletget still getting the call while Brooks is not. Brooks has a longer history of playing well for the USMNT and yet seems to have a shorter hook. Lletget seems to be in the roster for "deep depth" in case of injury, but why not bring in Brooks for the same reason (especially in light of Richards' injury)? Perhaps the reason is simply that Brooks is a royal pain in the ass and Lletget isn't, but that is something we will likely not know till whatever future book is published.
I guess in short there have been ample opportunities to get more guys into these camps, both over the summer and in qualifying, and for me Gregg hasn't used these opportunities as well as he could have. The beneficiaries usually end up being guys like Roldan, Lletget, Arriola and so on which I think folks find frustrating.
Doyle's post-mortem is a bit spicier than I expected. He takes some pretty strong shots at Gregg, which I don't think most of the media pundits do generally.
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/gregg-berhalter-s-system-positional-play-why-canada-are-better-than-the-usmnt-ri
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/gregg-berhalter-s-system-positional-play-why-canada-are-better-than-the-usmnt-ri
I just watched the game. My last 22 hours of sports viewing (as a 49ers fan) has sucked. Canada? Canada?
Thank god I no longer work for them.
Thank god I no longer work for them.
Oh god that Aaronson back pass after the turnover was peak MB.
To distill it to something even simpler -- we just have a hard time playing exploitively.
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A question and a thought.
Is Canada building this program and have staying power, or are they on a solo magical run? Is the coach good? They seem to have some good young forwards, but what is the rest of their program like? Do they put money into it? In a hockey crazy country, do they have solid infrastructure to keep the numbers growing with the young kids? What so we see going forward for them?
As for the US, this doesnt get real until they go into halftime 0-0 with Honduras on Wednesday. Then we will see if the players, and coach have the requisite fortitude to paly up to their world ranking. The nightmare of needing a result in Azteca is not far off.
Is Canada building this program and have staying power, or are they on a solo magical run? Is the coach good? They seem to have some good young forwards, but what is the rest of their program like? Do they put money into it? In a hockey crazy country, do they have solid infrastructure to keep the numbers growing with the young kids? What so we see going forward for them?
As for the US, this doesnt get real until they go into halftime 0-0 with Honduras on Wednesday. Then we will see if the players, and coach have the requisite fortitude to paly up to their world ranking. The nightmare of needing a result in Azteca is not far off.
I sometimes find myself wishing the defense was worse in the hope that opposing teams get more attacking opportunities that might result in more counterattacking opportunities with some semblance of numbers against a moving defense, if we were even inclined to counter in the first place.
I keep finding myself saying “what’s the plan in the final third?” but coming around to GB just wants to score on set piece headers and that’s about it.
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This model says 1.17 - 0.94 for Canada.
View: https://twitter.com/ESPN_BillC/status/1488133714030829568
The people on social media who had a meltdown when St. Paul was announced as the venue for the Honduras game have been completely vindicated. The conditions for tomorrow's game are going to be very dumb and also quite dangerous.
Knowing after Hamilton that Berhalter is 100% committed to possession play in conditions better suited to a rock fight does not make me feel good about these conditions at all. When you ignore the nationalistic essentialism part of "oh these Central Americans will fall apart in cold weather", the conditions seem like they will hurt possession soccer and help teams that like to counter and also like to hurt you in the challenge.
I'm fascinated that the USSF continues its hardline stance on playing on turf, which eliminates Seattle and Portland, but is perfectly willing to play in single digit temperatures.
If you want distinct homefield advantages outside of the Midwest, then head to the Northwest.
If you want distinct homefield advantages outside of the Midwest, then head to the Northwest.
I have no problem with the US scheduling games in an igloo in Alaska against warm weather countries if it helps you get 3 points. The same as when we go on the road and have to play at high noon in the heavy smog, altitude and searing heat of Azteca, or the blacktop like field in Honduras, or the other game delaying tactics that the Ticos use. It’s all in the game.
Its WC qualifying, nothing is unsportsmanlike. It’s about the points.We spend too much time saying, “crap we can’t finish, if we could we would have bested El Salvador 4-0, instead of 1-0”. Who cares. Get the points and qualify, once you are in, it matters 0% if you were at the top of the table, or you qualified through the 4th place playoff.
Win your next two home games and nobody cares about getting poor results both times against Canada.
The problem with playing these games in subarctic temperatures Is that they are done because of our reputation as a program, which I think is no longer applicable.
10-15 years ago when this program was growing, and 90% of the players played in MLS and in low budget operating, cheap hotel rooms, crappy locker rooms, middle seats on planes, crappy northeast weather, our reputation was we are mentally strong because we have played through it all in bad circumstances.
USA especially when playing outside the region were known for somehow pulling results out against higher ranked teams, by fighting, clawing their eyes out and bodying the opponent. Tough lunch pail games. Freezing weather games would suit those teams.
This roster all plays for high end club teams. Posh, comfy, first class everything lifestyles. Playing in the snow tomorrow night is going to irritate them just as much as their Central American opponent. Nothing gained here in my view.
Its WC qualifying, nothing is unsportsmanlike. It’s about the points.We spend too much time saying, “crap we can’t finish, if we could we would have bested El Salvador 4-0, instead of 1-0”. Who cares. Get the points and qualify, once you are in, it matters 0% if you were at the top of the table, or you qualified through the 4th place playoff.
Win your next two home games and nobody cares about getting poor results both times against Canada.
The problem with playing these games in subarctic temperatures Is that they are done because of our reputation as a program, which I think is no longer applicable.
10-15 years ago when this program was growing, and 90% of the players played in MLS and in low budget operating, cheap hotel rooms, crappy locker rooms, middle seats on planes, crappy northeast weather, our reputation was we are mentally strong because we have played through it all in bad circumstances.
USA especially when playing outside the region were known for somehow pulling results out against higher ranked teams, by fighting, clawing their eyes out and bodying the opponent. Tough lunch pail games. Freezing weather games would suit those teams.
This roster all plays for high end club teams. Posh, comfy, first class everything lifestyles. Playing in the snow tomorrow night is going to irritate them just as much as their Central American opponent. Nothing gained here in my view.
Hard disagree on some of your reasoning. These players have to be mentally tough and are better suited to colder conditions than their predecessors. MLS is a spring to fall sport. When are the US based players playing in conditions like this? Most of the European-based players do play games in the snow. It is a fall to spring sport there. Weston McKennie plays at the foot of the Alps. In the winter. Pulisic played in Germany. In the winter. Pepi is playing in Augsburg, Germany. In the winter. Richards, Adams, Aaronson, the list goes on and on for American players who are in season now because they play in Europe, and they play in cold conditions. Beyond that, these guys have to be mentally tough and not slack off at all. One bad game for a top European squad, and you could be benched for a month. That's not happening in MLS, but ask Weston McKennie, Christian Pulisic, and Sergino Dest about that pressure. Or what it's like to live in any of these places and (gasp) lose a game. Better not go out in Barcelona after a Barca loss. These guys are made to play in difficult circumstances, whether it is day-to-day pressure or conditions. But this choice of venue is absurd, and it was from the moment it was released even if the temps did not end up being that cold. Why risk it? This has nothing to do with the "posh" lifestyle lived by some of these players. This is about selecting conditions that are contradictory to our own style of play and locations that exclude certain people from the stands. Or to use your words, how does playing in an igloo in Alaska help the team win?
I have been completely against these locations, especially St. Paul since they were announced:
1. The USMNT is more likely to carry the possession and is thus more likely to have their own style of play negatively impacted by the cold. I play every Sunday outdoors here on the North Shore (unless there is snow on the ground), and I can tell you for a fact that there is no way this doesn't impact how the team plays. It gets so called you almost don't even want the ball. Yes Honduras will be impacted too, but they will barely have the ball anyways. Rock hard ball, ball skimming on the surface, no touch- this only matters when you have the ball.
2. The chance for injuries is much higher in these conditions, especially with players who have histories of muscle injuries. This is especially true for European based players who have been playing almost non-stop since Covid first shut things down. I know they're young, but the muscles have been put through hell the last couple of years. This is such an unnecessary risk to put our guys out there tomorrow night.
3. The US should be above playing at home stadiums where field conditions play a role. Argentina plays in Buenos Aires. Brazil plays at the Maracana most of the time. Bolivia plays at altitude because that's how they can compete with the Brazils and Argentinas of the world. Yes, the US isn't Brazil or Argentina, but they are (one of) the top dog(s) in CONCACAF. Fucking act like it.
4. I don't like the message this sends to soccer fans in this country. These locations in particular scream out who USSF wants in the stands, and who they don't. A few thousand Honduran fans aren't going to make a difference. These guys play in derbies across Europe. Not sure if you've ever been, but those games can get intimidating. A few extra fans cheering for the opponents isn't going to impact the players. On top of that, this is a young, exciting team that will win people over if given the chance.
5. The USMNT and MLS should be completely separate entities, and sites for WCQ seem to be rewards to MLS cities for building new stadiums. The Columbus stadium us new. So is Minnesota and Austin. Nashville got a game after they unveiled the plans for their new stadium. Can someone please explain to me why the March Panama game is in Orlando, but the February 2 Honduras game is in Minnesota?
Put a different way, how does playing in St. Paul at these temps help the US win?
Agreed, the turf thing is silly, especially considering the Hamilton match was on turf, so there would be no adjustment from match-to-match. The bigger issue is travel during a three-match international window. The PNW isn't close to any Concacaf away venues except Edmonton or Vancouver. St. Paul isn't particularly close to lower Ontario, but still a much shorter flight than the to the west coast and also closer to Europe for many players' return trips.
@rguilmar - it is quite rare to see the kind of temperatures that will be in St. Paul tonight, in Europe. At least since I’ve lived here, I can probably count on my fingers the number of times it’s been below 15F, and with the break in December/January, that also reduces the likelihood of such weather occurring on a game day. These guys can’t be accustomed to this.
I don’t take issue with the rest of your post. But these kinds of temps are exceedingly rare for any of the players on the USMNT, outside of these qualifiers.
I don’t take issue with the rest of your post. But these kinds of temps are exceedingly rare for any of the players on the USMNT, outside of these qualifiers.
I totally agree and was probably unclear at the beginning of my post. The choice of St. Paul was absurd because these temps were a possibility. Even if it ended up being 35 degrees, the risk of playing in frigid temperatures made this a foolish choice to me. I was taking exception to the idea that these players live “posh, comfy, first class lifestyles” and are thus not tough enough to play in cold weather games compared to previous USMNT players. I feel like they’re likely better prepared because soccer is a winter sport in Europe and they have a stronger mental fortitude not just because of the conditions but because the squads are so competitive. Just because they can play decent soccer and get paid nicely for it doesn’t mean they lack any sort of toughness. That being said, there is a difference between cold and frigid, and no USMNT in my lifetime was going to benefit from playing against Honduras in these types of conditions.
IDK guys it doesn't look that bad:
View: https://twitter.com/NWSTwinCities/status/1488819888374255619?s=20&t=ZV9HTZm5AQ9MuSTiZyHsGQ
View: https://twitter.com/NWSTwinCities/status/1488819888374255619?s=20&t=ZV9HTZm5AQ9MuSTiZyHsGQ
My brother in Minneapolis did remind me that the field is actually heated to 55 degrees + at all times. I have no idea how that will help the players on top of it but at least it won't be a rock.
Great post.
The whole thing is ridiculous and I wouldn't be surprised if its bites us in the ass in the form of a 0-0 draw or freak 1-0 loss.
That will help warm up Pulisic when he is flopping on the ground all the time.
Just a reminder that there will be basically nothing to learn about individual players or execution of tactical concepts in conditions like these.